My new jazz mandolin

[Mario Proulx]

I was so smitten by Hans' first Stealth, that I just had to have something similar. I also had a few new ideas brewing in my mind, and it all culminated in this latest effort.

The top is Black Spruce, back, sides and neck are Oregon Myrtle, fretboard, pickguard, tailpiece cover, and headplate are East Indian RW, bindings are Cocobolo, while the bridge is all Brazilian RW, as are the point protectors. Frets are stainless steel.

My standard scale length is 13-3/4", and on this one, I added two frets to the bottom end of the fretboard, so the mandolin is tuned D-G-C-F, high to low. In other words, capo'd at the 2nd fret, its a normal mandolin. It allows me to play in the keys of Bb, F and Eb, and still have open, ringing notes and lower tone voicings than usual.

Here's the front view:

[Mario Proulx]

The rear view....

[Mario Proulx]

Up close...

[Mario Proulx]

Love the figure and color of Myrtle! I very under-appreciated tonewood.

[Mario Proulx]

Instead of carrying a capo with me all the time for playing in "normal" mandolin mode, I decided to make one that will attach directly. It's carbon fiber covered with leather. When not in use, it is held to the back of the headstock, via a strong, rare earth magnet that I inlaid under the veneer.

[Mario Proulx]

Here it is just hanging around when not in use.

[Mario Proulx]

The bridge is something else that's new for me. I made it all from the same piece of BRW, and it's adjusted by sliding the wedge. It really does work nicely! Even at full tension, with my thumb on the saddle, and my first finger on the wedge, I can easily and with good control, slide te wedge to adjust the action.

The bridge weighs-in at a full 5 grams less than a Loar style bridge.

[Mario Proulx]

This is also my first ported mandolin, and not being convinced I'd like it, I made a door t allow me to close it off if necessary.

[Brad Weiss]

Woof! That looks really crisp - love the points- and the sound port! Yes, tuning a mandolin in F makes some good jazz sense. Huh, wouldn't have thought of that, but that'd work. Playing in Bb becomes as easy as C. Very well done!

[Mario Proulx]

And through the open door....

[John Ritchhart]

Wow, Mario that's beautiful! Cutting edge tuning and earth magnetics! What does it do to a Microphone? Any hum associated with the magnetic field? Will it stay in tune if the player has braces on his teeth? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mandolooter]

very nice and inventive!

[Bob Wiegers]

wow I love all the innovations. very creative and well done.

[billhay4]

Lovely, innovative instrument. You've outdone yourself.
I agree on the myrtle. I've got some in the shop waiting for me to get to it that's absolutely beautiful. Yours is prettier, though, and was in the hands of a better craftsperson.
Bill

[Mario Proulx]

And finally, a front-on shot showing the full length of the frteboard, with capo in place.

This is very much a work-in-progress, and I always appreciate good constructive criticism and any ideas for improvement!

That's it! Thanks, Hans, for the inspiration! And especially, thank you Don Stiernberg for introducing me to Jazz mandolin, and the wonderful world of Jethro.

[mandopete]

That's off the chart - how 'bout some sound clips? #I would love to hear how this sounds.

I love the capo idea! How does it attach to mandolin?

[Ken Olmstead]

Wow! Extraordinary! Great work man!

[Mario Proulx]

Thanks everyone! The magnet isn't so strong that I think it'll mess with a mic; being inlaid under some wood kills off much of the field, also. No sound clips yet; she's very green and tight still, only being a couple days old. But she's improving by the hour(anyone that doesn't believe in the opening up/waking up phenomenon has never held and played a mandolin at birth...)

The capo is held to the fretboard via a small hole; I tapped(threaded) the stainless steel truss rod(non adjustable, 3/8" square tube).

Forgot the photo of the tailpiece. I make the metal piece from .030" sheet metal, steel pins, and silver solder. The cover is dovetailed to "snap" over the strings, and has two soft leather pads to kill off overtones.

[BlueMountain]

Mario, this is a beautiful mandolin! Well done. And some great little touches. Could you show us a fretboard closeup WITHOUT the capo? I take it you have a nut set into the neck. What are the sizes? I suspect that you have a carbon fiber truss rod. How does the nut and hole affect that? Do you have two spaced rods or something? (My mind is churning.)

One thing that puzzles me is how a magnet--powerful rare earth magnet or not--manages to hold onto a capo made of carbon fiber, leather, and brass. (Unless that is not really brass.) It's a really interesting idea, this screw in capo.

Have you gone to heavier strings on this in order to get optimum tone with what are essentially tuned-down strings? (I know that many of my mandolins sound much better in tune than a step lower.) I suppose J75s with this scale and tuning would have about the same tension as J74s with a normal scale and tuning.

What is your scale length? I assume that you have essentially a 16" or about 400 mm. scale, mandola size, until the capo is attached.

At first I thought that you meant that you had a magnet inplanted under the fretboard and a steel capo would cling to the magnet, but then I realized that the strings would also be drawn by the magnet.

And you also need to tell us about that hole for a strap, which seems to have a grommet attached and to run into the body. Do you actually have the strap end running into the body? I've never seen that before. Very cool!

[JEStanek]

Sweet, Mario. Love the whole thing. The shape reminded me more of the Harmony Batwing than Hans' stealth(s). His stealths have that "backwards" pointing lower point. I love the shape, and colors. Those woods look great.

What did you string it with (standard mando strings)? So the Capo screws into the 2nd fret? How does that look without the capo on? No truss rod (CF in the neck)? So the final scale lenght is a bit over 14"?

When you have the mando played too you from a distance, can you discern any difference in tone/volume with the side port open and closed? That's a lovely mandolin.

Jamie

[amowry]

That's a beauty Mario!

Did you make the soundholes smaller because you added the sound port, or did you have another theory in mind? Just curious.

[Doug Edwards]

I'd like to see someone call that a copy. Nice work.

[oldwave maker]

Always enjoyable to see what luthiers come up with when building stuff for their own musical purposes! was that top stained with spruce beer?

[Phil Goodson]

Mario,
Are you coming to Kaufman's Kamp this year? I'd love to see that mando in person.

[Jake Wildwood]

Huzza-buzza, truly a nice mandolin! I love the idea of lowered tuning and "screw in" capo... as well as the whole thing in general! Good job!

[Rick Crenshaw]

I call first dibbs on playing the new Proulx!!! Mario, with any luck we'll be two doors down from you. I'll see you on Sunday of Kamp... maybe Saturday night, eh? I'm thinking of booking a room at the D.I. there in Maryville.

[Mario Proulx]

We'll arrive late on Saturday, Rick. Methinks we're staying at the Holiday Inn express for that night.

Thanks for the good words everyone. I'll take a shot of the fretboard, without the capo tomorrow. There is a small hole in the center of the 2nd fret area for the capo to thread into, but it doesn't look too obvious when it's removed. I'll likely omit this 'feature' on those I sell, but still include the magnet; that way, you could still hang your banjo capo on the end of the headstock.

My std. mandolin scale length is about 13-3/4". With the two extra frets on the bottom, it's about 15-9/16". But I treated the mandolin like a 13-3/4" scale, including the side markers, which have the double dots at what is now the 14th fret. The string tension is normal; if I capo at the 2nd fret, it's tuned just like every other mandolin; it's when the capo comes off that it becomes something new, but the tension doesn't change. The strings on it are D'Addario JS-74, my favorites.

Yes, I made the main soundholes smaller to compensate for the soundport's area. My wife can't hear a difference from out front, open or closed, and it's not a big deal for the player, either. I expected more....

No CF in the neck; I use non-adjustable steel rods in my mandolins. Stronger and stiffer than CF, and not much more weight. All told, this mandolin will rank as a light weight instrument in any gathering. The capo's tread size is #8-32, which uses a #29 drill bit. The screw itself is brass coated steel, and it took a good amount of searching stores with a magnet in hand to find it! And finally, yes again, the strap goes into the body. I've been doing this with my A style mandolin for at least 4 years now. There's at least one discussion about it here in the archives with close up photos and clear explanations.

I've never seen a Harmony Batwing. I took inspiration from Hans' Stealth, but changed it enough to make it my own; inspiration doesn't mean we must copy, but rather, take the spirit of it and give it our own twist. Hope this one inspires someone else to take it to the next step!

[Bill Snyder]

...I take it you have a nut set into the neck. What are the sizes? I suspect that you have a carbon fiber truss rod. How does the nut and hole affect that? Do you have two spaced rods or something? ...
Take a look at the post right above yours. Mario gives a clear explanation.
"The capo is held to the fretboard via a small hole; I tapped(threaded) the stainless steel truss rod(non adjustable, 3/8" square tube)."

[Austin Clark]

Really cool Mario. I don't suppose you have pictures of the inside of the rim and your sliding panel apparatus?

[mrmando]

I've never seen a Harmony Batwing.
Behold, the Harmony Batwing.

http://www.emando.com/images/builders/Harmony/Harmony_Red_Bkgd_2.jpg

[mandomick]

I nominate Mario for the "Best new bridge design on a stringed instrument". Cool, clean and functional. Also, if a player has the chops/knowledge to use it, why not place those capo holes at several locations?

[Skip Kelley]

Mario, That is a very beautiful mandolin! I love your bridge design, Very inventive!!! Awesome work!!!

[John Hill]

That is one sweeeet looking design and the woods are beautiful.

Oh to have a few grand lying around the house...

[F5GRun]

Awesome, very very classy. And a great choice of woods. I love the BRW points and the bridge. What kind of finsih did you use?

[JEStanek]

Thanks for the details, Mario. I never meant your looked like a copy. It really is it's own wonderful thing. Congrats on all the cool stuff you put in there.

Jamie

[Hans]

Lovely mandolin Mario! Can you tell us about the tonal qualities of black spruce? More like red or Englemann? How's it sound with the myrtle?

[Don Stiernberg]

Mario,

You've been busy!

I'm looking forward to seeing you at Kamp!

I just had a funny thought while thinking about the door on the side of the new Proux Jazz model....it would be cool to open that door during a set and get a Cubs score...or lyrics
to a song...

Perhaps the magnet idea could be applied to tuners as well??

See you guys soon in Maryville, TN,
donnie

[first string]

Isn't that tuning the same as what Andy Irvine uses? He certainly gets a great sound, whether it's out of the old tuned up Gibson mandola, or his newer tuned down Sobell "mandolin." I'd be very interested to here this new invention of yours, if you ever get the chance to record some clips...

[Jason Kessler]

Different. Tasteful. Inventive.

Perfect.

[Mario Proulx]

Thanks again folks. Don, be warned: I have a "short" list of questions already written out for your class <lol>.

Black spruce... very akin to Red. Very, very much the same tree, only they grow in different climates and soils, but at some points, overlap, and readily hybridize with each other. But for the color and size of the cones, I can't tell 'em apart(some of the back spruces will have a distinct olive-green layer of bark under the outermost layer, but not all do). Once cut, nobody could tell red spruce from black spruce, or white spruce for that matter. I have all three growing here, and have processed logs of each, and I am very careful to keep the woods clearly marked and separated, or else they'll get mixed and I wouldn't know one from the other. Good Spruce is good Spruce....

I'll make a new bridge of African Blackwood today or tomorrow, and will report back if anyone is curious.

The tone is beginning to show itself(our internet went down last night and again this morning, so what's a guy to do but pick a few tunes!), and she's beginning to open up. Sounds very much 'normal', and i ca tell it's related to its big brother, my favorite A-5(the blond one I'm never without). I suspect they'll sound very similar once she opens up completely. Where the new one is very different is when playing open, 2 finger chords. The tone and sustain and 'ring" is more musical, if that makes any sense. The Myrtle is tougher to carve, and kills the edge on scrapers and my planes, but otherwise, it reminds me of red maple(in other words, harder than big leaf, softer than sugar maple). It also needs a bit of red in the coloring, to kill off the green hues.

The tone is also becoming more distinct with the door open or closed now, and I can clearly tell the difference. I now very much like the soundport! I might take that door off and leave it off. The door slides in "tracks" cut into the linings. I use solid linings fr my mandolins, so it was a simply matter of carving some guides in them. Only issue here is that the door was an afterthought, and i had to cave the tracks with the mandolin nearly done, with the top already on the ribs, so it's not all that clean and well done. From here-on, I'll do it all ahead of time while making the linings and do a way better job of it. But, this is what prototypes are for; function over form first!

Only regret with the mandolin right now is that I tried some "Elite" machines on it. Ugh! The $15 "Economy" machines from SM work better and smoother. I even took them off and spun them on the drill press to try to break 'em in, added dry graphite lube, but they're still terrible. "Stiction" is a word I'd never thought would fit with the description of a tuning machine, but if the shoe fits... Hopefully the Gotoh tuners will arrive in time for Kamp.

[mandolirius]

You should think about marketing those bridges. I don't know about anyone else but I'd be interested in one. I've been thinking about trying a solid bridge but am skittish about not being able to adjust the action.

[arrowmandolin]

Mario,
It just occured to me that the capo actually gives you a zero fret... any thoughts or observations on that? I'm guessing it's quite #benificial.
Very impressive design and execution, I'd really enjoy seeing and playing her.

I'm also a big fan of Myrtlewood, it's one of our local woods.It's also great in flattop guitars.

[Jeff Hildreth]

Beautiful mando ! distinctive

Oregon myrtle AKA California Bay Laurel

[pjlama]

Great job, I love all the innovations. This is very refreshing, thanks for sharing and taking real risks.

[Shelby Eicher]

Mario,
I've tried tuning a regular mandolin down with heavier strings for my Blues act and always run into tuning issues. This looks great. Do you have a website? I would like to talk to you about ordering, pricing, etc.
Shelby
shelbyeicher@cox.net

[Ted Eschliman]

This is quite stunning, Mario. Congratulations on a well-thought out project. Love to try one some day!

[steve V. johnson]

Congratulations, Mario, it looks like this is a really, really successful prototype! #You've learned a lot already from the
innovations, and I hope that this one remains fun, and instructive, as long as you like! #Tremendously innovative! #I love it!

Dan Erlewine, a veteran guitar tech who works at StewMac in Ohio, makes capos like that, and they're a wonderful idea. I've seen them on Ged Foley's Sobell and J.Thomas Davis guitars. #Foley uses a particular C tuning and normally keeps the capo on the second fret to result in a D tuning that he uses for most of his accompaniment of Irish music. #When he sings or accompanies singers, he often moves the capo to the 5th or 7th frets, where the threads are also installed. #The threaded holes aren't immediately evident. #Of course, in a guitar neck, there's more wood, so Erlewine didn't need to use the truss rod, but I think that using that to anchor the threads is just brilliant in your mandolin.

I just had a Brian Dean octave mandolin here for a while and it had a soundport (a beautifully cut "celtic knotwork" design) in the bass-side rib. #I was ambivalent about it, never could make up my mind if I liked it. #Your door design and execution are wonderful. #I wonder how you'll like that over time, esp. as the mandolin gets played more and more (and more and more...! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).

The sliding bridge is a fantastic experiment, and I'm interested in how you'll like that, over time, also. # It's really interesting that you can move it under tension and that it stays put! #Wonderful! #Great design innovation, I hope that this one is successful in the long term.

Finally, the myrtle... I'd only seen it in guitars, and the green color was featured nicely in those, so the color you have there is really, really wonderful! #I love the sound of the myrtle instruments I've heard, and the figure of this is gorgeous.

I'm always thinking about longer-scale instruments, not that I've figured anything out about 'em (and I'm -no- jazz player), but with all the Irish tunes in various flavors of D, the long, open tuning is really intriguing. #Truly this is a splendid instrument.

Congratulations again, and thanks for all the great details!

stv

[Bill Snyder]

Mario,
... Do you have a website? ...
Take a look at the bottom of his posts. Everyone of them have a link to Mario's website.
FWIW, Mario is a highly respected builder of mandolins and dreadnaught guitars who generously and frequently shares his knowledge with others on a few different forums.

[Mario Proulx]

Making bridges for sale? Hmmm... I suppose I could tool up if there's enough interest; as it is, I didn't use a single jig to make this one, so it's all handmade. But if I were to make a couple dozen or more, I'd definitely need to first make a few jigs to be more consistent and make 'em quick enough to keep the cost down to reasonable levels. Lemme think about it... as it is, I really like the bridge; I haven't had a chance to make the one from African Blackwood yet, but will try soon, and will make one of ebony also, and will A-B test that one against one of Steve Smith's excellent Loar bridges, to get a feel for what the tone/power difference really is. I may be impressed, or disappointed!

Yeah, there's a link to me site in each of my posts, but the site's WAY out of date(going on 8 years old now), but we have the new one almost ready to go 'live'. There's not much in the present one regarding mandolins, but the new site will have a whole bunch of neat stuff in the mando section; I've been having a lot of fun with design and various woods, the past few years, with mandolins.

I've used Myrtle in guitars, also, and in those cases, it was from California, therefor AKA Bay Laurel, but this mandolin's set came from Oregon, so I think it fitting to tip the hat to its locale <g>

[Charles E.]

Now that is a thinking man's mando! great job!

[D.E.Williams]

So Mario, was there any difference with that African Blackwood bridge? Great axe btw....love the capo and the port.

[Jonmiller]

I love the lower 3rd point-and the F tuning-both would suit me fine.

[Mario Proulx]

Whoa! Old thread comes back to life....!

It's been too long now since the bridge swap, to be able to describe the differences, but I can say it was for the better, and the ABW bridge has remained on that mandolin since. I also tried one(ABW) on my favorite mandolin, my blond A-5, and went back to the BRW bridge on that one soon after. Different instruments like different flavors!

Thanks for the kind words, Jon!

By the way, this mandolin has become a favorite at our weekly jam session, which is usually 2 guitars, a banjo, dobro and bass, and me on mandolin. They love it that we don't have to capo all the other instruments just to be in the mandolin's key anymore. 99% of our tunes can now be played in C and G instead of D and A.

[Skip Kelley]

Mario, every thing about that mandolin is awesome!

[Bill Van Liere]

Mario, I am glad to see this thread back in circulation as I missed it back in the day.

Love the inovations on the mandolin, as much as I love the F5, I wonder if I will see evolution of the mandolin in my life time, you might be on to something with that tuning/capo idea.

Black Spruce=Picea mariana? Just trying to clarify the common name. BTW, I have a cabin at Goulais River, Ontario not far from Batchawana Bay with this tree all around. At this location the trees are very soft and weak, pulp wood like, prone to wind fall. Being a Horticulturist I am aware of the fact that Black does hybridize with Red, I guess where thier respective ranges converge, not sure I have ever seen such a tree.

Keep up the good work

BVL

[Mario Proulx]

Black Spruce=Picea mariana?

Yessir. No idea where you've found soft black spruce, as it's one of then hardest, stiffest spruces. So stiff that some saw mills set it aside until they have enough for a big run, and run it all together, as a engineered-spec timber. Maybe the one near your cabin is the lowland type, AKA, swamp spruce? Though it's technically the same black spruce, the wood won't share the same properties.