Cascamite powdered resin glue

[kestrel]

In John Troughton's "The Mandolin Manual", he uses, and speaks highly of this stuff. Have any of you pros ever used it? What are your thoughts on it, for mandolin building?

I did a search of the archives, using "Cascamite glue", and got a single hit, where it was only casually mentioned in a thread requesting European suppliers of mandolin parts.

Getting ready to build numbers two, three, and four, and have been researching options.

Thanks,

Gene

[David Newton]

Cascamite is the Euro brand. In the US you can get Weldwood Resorcinal glue. A famous Euro guitar builder, Jose Romillios uses it.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userpor....ol_glue (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2060&engine=adwords!6456&keyword=resorcinol_glue)

It isn't reversable.
I used it once, built a sailboat mast.

[Chadmills]

It's reckoned to be a good boatbuilding glue, being very waterproof!
I used to use it a lot for general woodworking, I tend to think it dries rather brittle. Personally I wouldn't be tempted to use it now if I had Titebond Original or hide glue.
It seems to be known as Extramite now, under the Humbrol brand.
Tom

[Bill Snyder]

The only resorcinal glue I have used (mixed it up by the gallon) was a very dark, brownish/purple color. It would leave a VERY noticable glue line. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I used it in building a massive, curved stairway and we needed a glue that would not creep.

[Dale Ludewig]

Bill, where in the world did you find Resorsinal in that kind of quantity? That must cost a small fortune or you have found quite the "source" for it. It's incredible stuff, albeit in my experience a bit brittle, but man does it hold and it's water-tight. When I buy it, it's about, I'm guessing now, about 15$ for a pint of mixed up stuff. A gallon? Sounds like the same stuff. You sure wouldn't want to use it to glue up a top or back if you didn't want the glue joint to show. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bill Snyder]

Dale, our total cost (material and labor) in the stairs about 7 years ago was about $16K so a few gallons of glue was not a big concern. My brother and I built them. We did have the help of another carpenter when we bent the handrail.
I was mixing it in a five gallon bucket (not full) with a big mixer on a 1/2" drill and rolling it on. We used it to laminate the stringers. The stringers were built up of 1/4" CDX plywood. We also used a few thousand screws in the laminating process. It is quite a staircase though. Strong and beautiful.

[kestrel]

Ah, Resorcinol. Yes. I'm familiar with that from my old boat owning days. Don't really think I want that in a mandolin, though. Canoe paddles, maybe. Think I'll stick with Titebond. Thanks folks.

Gene

[sunburst]

We used something similar (Urac, I think it was called) to laminate resonator backs for banjos where I used to work, 5 gallon pail of powder and a jug of liquid resin, mix a batch in a pitcher, pour some on a veneer and roll it out with a paint roller, stack up the veneers and press them in a form. The advantages were; long open time and creep resistance (waterproof was not a concern). I can't see any advantages over hide glue for general mandolin making tasks, and if I want a long open time I think I prefer epoxy because it's clear.

[David Newton]

Back when I did a lot of repairs, the old guitars had this brown bubbly-looking, chippy glue inside. I'm talking of the "harmony, stella, silvertone, regal" stuff. I always thought it was resorcinal glue, I figured there was a lot of surplus glue after WWII that the factories would get.
I now know that it was real low-grade hide glue.

[bennyb]

Howdy all,
I think I see cascamite and resorcinol being used interchangably in this thread. I'm no expert and my memory isn't totally clear, but some 35 or so years ago, I mixed up cascamite(generically: plastic resin glue) in several gallon batches twice a week. It's a powder mixed with water and dries to a dark almond color, easy and seemingly benign to use, permanent. Resorcinol is 2 part system that comes with it's own catalyst(not water); it's messy, not so benign, purplish when dry, also permanent.

I've got one of those old harmony mandos. I can see the brown squeezeout around the kerfing: I always thought it was "cascamite".

My best, bennyb

[Chadmills]

According to the safety data sheet Cascamite/Extramite is a "urea formaldehyde resin glue."
Resorcinol is "resorcinol phenol formaldehyde resin" glue.
!
(I'll leave the difference to the chemists, just don't confuse either with Vegemite, the properties are rather different!)

[james condino]

I'd stick with hide glue.

j.
www.condino.com

[kestrel]

Hey, thanks everybody. Actually, I think I'm going to stick with good ol', original, Titebond. I've read all the threads on TB versus HHG, and I'm just not ready to go back to what my great, great, great, great, etc. grandaddy used, even though I'm sure it is great stuff.

Two of the places I do have questions about, though, are gluing neck laminations, and gluing on the fingerboard - including gluing in carbon fiber reinforcer strips.(I, personally, don't believe in truss-rods in mandolin necks.) Slow-set epoxy?

Thanks,

Gene

[bobbybear]

In John Troughton's "The Mandolin Manual", he uses, and speaks highly of this stuff. Have any of you pros ever used it? What are your thoughts on it, for mandolin building?

I did a search of the archives, using "Cascamite glue", and got a single hit, where it was only casually mentioned in a thread requesting European suppliers of mandolin parts.

Getting ready to build numbers two, three, and four, and have been researching options.

Thanks,

Gene

Bobbybear (Bob Ashley)
I have no idea what trade names Cascamite appears as in the USA. However, following the other threads, Cascamite is an excellent glue moisture resiatnt and mould resistant if a bit brittle. It is a Urea Formaldehyde and not as someone said a Resorcinol Formaldeyde.
Resorcinol Formaldeydes are often used in the wooden boatbuilding industry. They are especially suited to oily woods such as Iroko and Teak where the oil in the wood can (over time) cause delamination at the glues lines. Resorscinol glues do not delaminate with these woods. Typical European Resorcinal trade names are Aerodux and Cascophen though I believe they I think they are now made by the German conglomerate AKZONOBEL. Resorcinols have a limited shelf life. One caution that always appears on the containers is 'clean hands and tools immediately with soapy water as there is no known solvent'!
Urea formaldehydes have good gap filling qualities and long shelf life. An interesting article on the origins can be found on http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Glues/Aerolite/Aerolite.html.
Aerolite is a two part inasmuch as you mix the resin with water (much like Cascamite) and paint it on only one half of the joint and paint the other half of the joint with the hardener (which contains 39% formic acid and really stings cuts on your hands). All the above glues require clamping and at least 15°C temperatures. Resorcinols work better above 18°C.
This may be of help with your choice of glues. Of course all instruments in bygone times would have been held together with animal glues. These are still available and are still used for laminating veneers in furniture.
bob A

[CedarSlayer]

Years ago I obtained an electric cello for my daughter that was sold as parts due to the neck being fairly badly broken. In this case, I used resorcinol, because I could make an epoxy putty with sawdust to fill the gaps and still have it hold up in a reliable manner. I had to take out the original glue first in on spot and that left a area that needed quite a bit of filling. Resorcinol has the advantage of being repairable, that few other modern glues share. You can scuff resorcinol that has set and then glue new resorcinol to it. This will be a top notch repair. It leaves a purple glue line but for the electric cello, it worked out fine. My daughter still uses it on occasion. On a fine acoustical instrument I would stick to hide glue and remake the parts. I would not trust resorcinol to be as transparent to sound waves as hide glue, casein glue or shellac would be.

Bob

[GarY Nava]

I believe cascamite was similar to something made in the US by Bordan's many moons ago and was a originally a by-product of milk production??
Anyway, I would suggest that it's too brittle for fine musical instruments.
Cheers Gary

[Rob Grant]

WHY?

I live in the tropics (a good "test zone" for adhesives) and I haven't had any problems with good 'ol Titebond or any of the other locally available PVA/Alphatic resin glues. I occasionally use two pack epoxies, but that's about the limit of my glue range.

A mate once suggested Resorcinol as a better option, but my response was: "Why, I don't plan to launch any of my instruments upon the Coral Sea!"<G>