Snakehead nut width

[jaco]

Anyone know if there was a standard width on the Gibson Snakeheads? I've seen them as narrow as 1&1/16. Was there any transitional period from the paddleheads with the wider width? Thanks

[bradeinhorn]

mine was a 1 1/8 i believe. there's little standard about these. retrofret has three on their site now. one is 1 1/8 and two are 1 1/16.

[Gail Hester]

I have about a dozen snakeheads in the shop at present and the standard that I’ve observed is a 1 1/16” nut width. I also happen to have the very first snakehead, a 1922, and it is a hair over the norm at 1 3/32”. I’ve never seen a snakehead with a nut width as wide as 1 1/8”. I know there is some disparity as to how people measure the nut width. I measure the fret board at the leading edge of the nut since the nut itself can be over or undersized with respect to the fret board.

[bradeinhorn]

i'd ask charles at mwh. he sees/has a bunch of these.

[Lee]

Gail, for the same reason, when I inquire about the neck width, I ask for the "usable" width of the first fret. Some frets are beveled steeper than others, so the usable width would be from the top part of the bevel on each side.
This is what really dictates how much room there is to work with should a new nut ever become preferred to adjust the string spacing.

[trevor]

Outer string centre (or edge) to outer string centre is the measurement that actually counts but nobody seems to measure this...

[Jim Garber]

I’ve never seen a snakehead with a nut width as wide as 1 1/8”. I know there is some disparity as to how people measure the nut width. I measure the fret board at the leading edge of the nut since the nut itself can be over or undersized with respect to the fret board.
Hmmmm... I just took out my '23 A2 and the nut measures 1 1/8" the fretboard with binding measures 1 1/8" and without binding aboyt 1 1/16". And for Trevor: outer string to outer string centres measures 7/8".

[Gail Hester]

This thread highlights the problem with discussing nut widths. #The real importance of the measurement is so that everyone can use it as a reference, no matter where the measurement is taken, everyone has to do it the same or it becomes useless.

Technically the nut width is the distance across the top of the fretboard adjacent to the nut.

Keep in mind that 1 1/8" is the standard Sam Bush nut width and I've never seen a snakehead close to being that wide, but then again I haven't seen them all. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[trevor]

I appreciate that it is important that everybody uses the same measurement. Just trying to make the point that if it is ease of how the mandolin plays (some liking wider, some narrower) that is the issue two mandolins with 1/16" different nut widths can have the same string spacing... So maybe the string spacing would be a more useful measurement?

[danb]

Interesting. I'll photo my fleet with the mm/inches ruler in place and see what I come up with

[Desert Rose]

Gail

Great input and your logic is sound

Trevor

The reason string width is never quoted in building and engineering is that its kind of like saying how long is a string.

WHAT string

The neck width is finite and never changing, once the neck is made its made for the life of the instrument, string width is completely variable within the same nut width depending on the person setting up the nut and thus not a constant that is reliable for discussion on building. Discussion of setup yes for sure but not building

Scott

[trevor]

Scott,
I agree with what you are saying, just pointing out that when a customer is trying to establish whether they will find a mandolin comfortable to play, as it is, it is the spacing that actually matters.

[Desert Rose]

Hey Trevor

By all means the spacing will speak to the customer but it must always be thought of by those of us behind the scenes as builders in relation to the width of the actual neck because that will dictate some limitations on string spacing

In my experience with all the variables possible a measurement for discussion is not going to be as helpful as the customer just playing the thing
Again I think this discussion was about neck width and building while string spacing is an issue of setup

Building is for the builders while setup specs can be touted to the end user

Both important but seperate at the same time

As Gail pointed out interjecting different ways to talk about something only leads to confussion

In the engineering of stringed instruments in the manufacturing end of it we discuss nut width, maybe first fret width 12th fret width and last fret width, not all on the same instrument, usually three points are taken and those three vary by factory or shop

The width is determined by first knowing already what the string spacing is going to be and making the neck a predetermined amoung more on either side of the outside strings, again this varys by maker builder

Just a fyi

Best wishes

Scott

[Jim Garber]

Well, here is my snakehead with a rather accurate measure near the nut. I don't know if this helps...

[Lee]

Scot says, "The neck width is finite and never changing, once the neck is made its made for the life of the instrument"

True, but I've seen frets that stop at the binding, and others that are heavily beveled. So even though the neck width is something the Builders care about, it's not a measurement that says much to the Player about how the mandolin is currently set-up or how the mandolin could be set-up in the future with a new nut (concerning string width). Which is why I suggest a much more telling measurement is how much usable fret width there is at the first fret. (Re-fretting being a much more costly job than re-nutting.)

[Bruce Clausen]

My conclusion on this has been the same as Lee's. To the player, "neck width" is of interest mainly for the limit it places on string spacing. So the important measurement is the length of the playing surface of the first fret. I also want to know the length of the 12th fret, for the same reason, since a given combination of nut spacing and bridge spacing will require a certain minimum width at XII.

BC