Fishman pickups

[Geoff]

So I bought myself a fishman M200 online and it arrived today. But I think I have decided to return it and instead purchase a K&K twin spot and a K&K preamp as well. I believe that this will be a better choice. If anyone has any experience with either of these pickups and/or input it would be much appreciated. If anyone has a suggestion for an alternative choice, let me know as well. I've never heard my mandolin through either and the cosmetics are not an issue (i dont mind if wires and inputs are visible).

[theBlood]

I have a K&K twin in an Eastman 815 (with f-holes) and sound is too trebly for my tastes. When playing through a PA, I back off nearly all the treble for that channel. I have to play the E string quite lightly or it will get piercing.

On another mandolin, an oval hole Gibson, I have a Baggs pickup that's integrated into the saddle like the Fishman. They don't make them anymore, I guess, but I got it used from a reliable source. This tone I like way better than the other. I play through a preamp without changing the tone controls and it sounds very good.

I can't say if your Fishman will behave like my "Baggs" but my experience favors it over the K&K. I know of a couple of other gigging people who like their Fishman's also. As long as you don't have to do any modification it seems like its worth trying anyway.

Good luck

[Folkmusician.com]

I have not tried the K&K yet, so I would not be able to give a comparison. I have installed a lot of Fishman pickups (3 last week) and the results have been very good.

Of course with the Fishman, you have to deal with installing a new bridge which can be a major pain. The benefit is that I have noticed big improvements in acoustic tone on some of the mandolins after installing the Fishman... If your mando has a questionable bridge on it, the Fishman has a major advantage here. There is an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

[Geoff]

theblood, did you run the K&K through a preamp? Maybe you could make adjustments that would solve the trble problem. My mandolin isn't anything special so perhaps the fishman bridge would be an upgrade...but I am looking to buy a new mandolin soon. I'm kind of torn at this point, but I'm thinking of keeping the fishman and getting a preamp to go with it. If I get a new mandolin I could switch out the fishman or maybe get a different pickup at that point. decisions, decisions...

[JohnnyCrash]

I've been running my ###### mando with a Fishman M-100 through an L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI/Pre with good success. Unplugged the mando sounds (and plays! HAHA) terrible, but plugged in the Fishman/BaggsPre combo work pretty well.

The Fishman setup isn't as hard as it may seem.

I AM A NEWBIE THOUGH, so don't read too much into my experience http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I've had this setup for about a year and I am pretty much new to Mandos - but the Fishman undersaddle/Baggs combo had worked well with my acoustic guitars for years.

[theBlood]

theblood, did you run the K&K through a preamp?

If I get a new mandolin I could switch out the fishman or maybe get a different pickup at that point. decisions, decisions...
Yes, I always run pickups through preamps. I have a Baggs Para DI and also the Dtar Solstice. Pickups sound harsher without them, and usually need some gain. I should mention that I really like the K&K I have in my guitar, and I know a lot of people really like them on this forum. I'm not real pleased with the treble notes on my eastman when its unamplified either, so its possible that my experience is not universal.

Non-permanent installations are a good idea as things change in unforeseen ways. In that regard, the lavalier mics that are gaining favor are an intriguing option to consider.

[Crowder]

I don't like the Fishman bridge pickups. They plugged-in sound is okay, but I don't like what they do to the tone when the mando isn't plugged up. They can also catch a lot of noise from your palm that is undesirable.

I'm a K&K fan. I'm thinking the problem mentioned above about the signal being too trebly is very likely an impedence mismatch situation that the right preamp would solve.

My signal chain is a K&K Twin Spot through a K&K Pure XLR preamp. I posted a sound sample on here a few weeks ago...maybe I'll be able to find the thread.

[Crowder]

Sample of me playing around, straight to tape.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jgzl1wjmygw

[JohnnyCrash]

Bridge piezo transducers can sound harsher and be harder to tame than can piezo surface/top mount transducers... placement is the difference between the two.

That said, piezo systems are always stiff, quacky, honkers...

Taming piezo quack by placing the transducer element on the body/top instead of the saddle/bridge can sometimes mean a little less volume to the pre, but placing the transducer under saddle/bridge can mean more quack... so it's a trade off UNTIL...

You get a GOOD PREAMP. A good preamp can compensate for BOTH/EITHER of the two compromises above - volume and/or harshness issues.

Of course the other option would be lavalier style mics, and then feedback/volume is the compromise you'd get for the natural/realistic tone/sound.

If the Fishman and a GOOD preamp don't cut it for you, try something more along the lines of the Twin Spot... in either case a good preamp is the most important factor.

[Matt Hutchinson]

I had a Fishman for a while and my mandolin sounded awful with it both plugged in (even with a Baggs para DI) and unplugged. In the end I went with a second hand Schertler which is loads better.

[250sc]

The problem of the K&K being too bright could also be pickup placement besides the fact that the mandolin is bright when played unamplified.

[John Flynn]

I had a Fishman for many years and found it quacky and uneven. A Baggs DI cleaned it up a lot, but it was still never as good as the pickup on my Rigel A+ going straight in to an amp. I am no expert, but compared to a bridge pickup, it seems to me placing a pickup on the top puts it where the acoustic sound is actually being realized and it also gives you options as to the best placement. Those would seem to be advantages to me and in practice it seems to work better. The problem with pickups on the top is more body noise, so it is a trade-off, but one I'm willing to make.

Of course, an external mike, even an economical one, beats any pickup for tone no matter how high quality the pickup, IMHO. Then of course you have to worry about mobility and feedback. A combination, pickup and mike, seems to produce the best possible world, even if each option is not high end.

[Geoff]

Thanks all for the info. Crowder, Ive searched the message board and have seen some other posts you wrote praising the K&K twin spot, which got me to thinking about that one. But since it wasn't certain that the company would take back the fishman I decided to keep it. So right now my mando is in the shop getting it installed. (I was about to install it when I realized I was probably going to ruin the new bridge by trying to put in the string grooves on my own) I have a K&K pure preamp, I hope that cuts it when I get the mandolin back. All in all I will be happy when my mandolin can actually be heard on stage.

[Jonmiller]

I have had a Fishman on my Givens since 94' and use it regularly and like it-I put it on not knowing at the time that the mando had a radius f/b and the Fishman was flat and have just recently had my repairman (Greg Mirken ant Shadetree in So. Cal) radius the bridge. He did a great job!