Scooped Master Models

[JAK]

I've noticed a few used Gibson Master Models for sale with scooped fret boards at the end. Does this decrease the value, because when it is scooped it is not an exact copy of a Loar?

[Charlie Derrington]

No.

I know plenty of Loars (not mine, mind you) with scooped extensions and it doesn't decrease those in value.

Charlie

[JAK]

Thanks Charlie, I appreciate the response, good to know. Your are the only one who responded to this question, but that's the only response I need!

[Nick Triesch]

Thats great for Charlie but I for one like to buy instruments and cars for that matter stock. If I was in the market for a late model master series and one had a scooped extention and the other did not, I would pick the un scopped mando. To me, it would be worth far more in original condition. I bet there are a lot of folks out there like that. Nick

[mandoJeremy]

Nope, I would say there aren't too many! How many get that "click"?

[mandoJeremy]

Unless you own a Loar without the scoop.

[Bob Sayers]

I'm with mandocat. If I'm buying a used instrument, I prefer one that hasn't been altered--or at least altered in a way that doesn't appeal to me. But then I wouldn't have a problem with a strap button on the heel of a D-28 guitar. So maybe I'm arguing against myself.

Bob

[Charlie Derrington]

He didn't ask if the alteration was to everybody's liking, he asked if it would lower the resale price. It won't.

I'm with you guys though, I hate the "scoop". You can't undo it later.

Charlie

[f5loar]

In a hypothetical unreal world if you had two consective
serial number Loars side by side in the exact same condition
and sound(highly unlikely) and one had the scooped out look the unscooped would bring more money if you had that choice.
But if you sold those two identical Loars at different times say 2 months apart they would bring the same money.
Scoops make no sense to me. Learn to pick without the click. Dave Apollon had no problem using those frets even if he had to remove one to fit his fat fingers. You can add frets back but like you said adding the missing sawdust would be hard.

[Nick Triesch]

Thanks Charlie, Nick

[Jim Roberts]

I wouldn't care if one was scooped and the other not...I'd go for the one that sounded the best!

[Clyde Clevenger]

I had a Fern that I scooped, didn't seem to have any effect on the selling price. I really don't like the idea either, but even though I play less notes than most folks, I play the few I play vigorously and the fingerboard extension adds percusion that wasn't intended. Got a Bush now, problem solved, no chainsaw.

[JAK]

Hey folks, thanks for the scoop on the scoop!

[AlanN]

I feel the same way as f5loar, learn to deal with it.

[BigJoe]

I could care less one way or the other. On the other hand, on a new master model it can be a factory stock item. You can order it with or without the extension scooped. Still, it does not affect resale. As many like it as don't.

[evanreilly]

Bill Monroe always got extra 'grace notes' by banging the extension with his pick!!!

[goose]

This thread is not an official "roll call" for scoops, but I'll chime in and say that I do not like them either. They take away from the marvelous aesthetics of the F-5. I don't get any click with my right hand style either and am not sure what I would do if I did. I guess that if I could not change technique then I'd probably break out the chisel because sound is THE essential thing driving my love affair with the mandolin.

[Luthier Vandross]

If you are going to play it, go for the scallop, it's a modification with much virtue, especially for recording.

M

[doc holiday]

I'm with JR Wilhelm above. #No trick question. I would buy the one that had the sound

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif #Doc

[f5loar]

If Doc and JR would go back and read the post it states
they have identical sound. So now which one would you choose?

[Nick Triesch]

I love cars. So to me it's kind of like a collector car.If you are looking for a clean example of a 1955 porsche 356 you want to make sure that all numbers match. And that the car is correct as much as possible. Same goes for 60's and 70's american muscle cars. I for one think that a late model master model will be worth more in 40 years if it is not scooped. IMHO again. Nick

[Jim Roberts]

f5loar: #I've re-read the original post and cannot find where it states that the two have identical sound. #In fact, I'm digging deep into the furniture of my mind trying to recall the last time I played two mandolins that had the same identical sound??? #

[mandoJeremy]

The simple fact is to do what you want to with the mando that you want and to the one that you will play forever! #If you want to buy an original Loar for resale purposes, then buy it and sell it regardless of the little extension. #If you want to buy a Master Model for investment purposes and worrying about the scooped extensinon, I hope you are younger than me (27)! #I will play my Bush until I die and I will have it buried with me so I don't really care about resale purposes.

[mandoJeremy]

I almost forgot: #My varnish Bush isn't "original" because I put Waverly tuners on it and it is varnish instead of lacquer! #Oh, the loss of value!

[JAK]

On the front page of the Cafe is a picture of John Reischman holding a mandolin with a scooped fretboard. Most of us know he has a Loar, and I think he also has a Heiden. It doesn't look like a Heiden fretboard to me, so did John have his Loar scooped, or is this another mandolin? Anybody know???

[f5loar]

Since your computer can't go back a day here it is again
in short form from my original post which by the way has nothing to do with the first post:
"In a hypothetical unreal world if you had two consective
serial number Loars side by side in the exact same condition
and sound(highly unlikely) and one had the scooped out...."
I even acknowledged that it is unlikely you will find such
two mandolins but for the purpose of this survey you pretend it does. At least I know I'm not loosing my mind!(yet)Sorry if I have such a vivid imagination but I would
pick the unscooped Loar hands down every time. And I don't think I'm alone in my ethical choice. And I still say learning to pick without the click is the best way to avoid the problem if you have such problem.

[mandoJeremy]

Is there a problem? If so, one must alleviate it right? What alleviates it for one may cause the next aggravation for another. I have no problem because mine was sawed off from the factory! Opinions, do you like Bush or someone else; president? I prefer Bush and he should be the next president. The national instrument: Mandolin! Oops, I confused myself. Bush RULES! Just go pick and not worry about such trifling things! My pinky could be longer than your's!

[Bradley]

[QUOTE] I prefer Bush and he should be the next president.

I asssume that you mean Sam and not George http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[mandoJeremy]

Of course!

[Big Joe]

Why not both? They could share the duties http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif . My mandolins are not scooped. My MM was supposed to be scooped but they forgot to do it. I have no problem with the pick click so it does not bother me. However, I have had some that were and some that were not. I have sold many that were and many that were not. I have seen Loars with the scoop and Loars without. IT really has not affected price. Some like it scooped and some don't.

The one thing that will affect value is cutting the fingerboard extension off. If you are going to do anything at all, just have it scooped and leave the fingerboard extension on the istrument. Many a good mandolin have been hurt by whackig it off. Oh, that also affects tone as well as value.

[Tony Sz]

If I found 2 MMs for sale, one scooped and ond not, I'd buy the one I liked best, regardless of the scoop, hoping I'd liked the scooped one better, because if I liked the other, I'd have it scooped after I bought it. Mine came unscoooped, but it ain't that way any longer. It seems to me that the mandolin is still evolving, if ever so slowly, and although the Loar will alwaws hold its special place in that evolutioin, I think the extension is evolving its way out of the design. There seems to me to be an ever increasing number of designs being offered that offer an alternate to the board extension, the Steffey, Lawson, Collings, Bush, Dearstone, Monteleone, along with others. A loar copy, by definition, has the extension, but short of that, I think that a lot of players that will never play those upper frets often prefer a mando without them.

[AlanN]

So, from an evolution standpoint, the extension (or Florida - always liked that term) is going the way of the Darwinian tail. As the design evolves and the species matures, all extraneous elements will eventually be streamlined and gone, leaving the "best" possible structure to fit the bill. Sort of a mandolinistic "survival of the pick-est" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

- toungue firmly in cheek above...I liken the extension to an appendix, anyway...

[Steven Stone]

[The one thing that will affect value is cutting the fingerboard extension off. If you are going to do anything at all, just have it scooped and leave the fingerboard extension on the istrument. Many a good mandolin have been hurt by whackig it off. Oh, that also affects tone as well as value.]

I could not agree more.

I've always loved the sound of the new Gibson Sam Bush mandolin, but HATED its looks because of the chopped off fretboard extension. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[f5loar]

I guess we have the Purist and the NonPurist on here.
Those that liked the "new" coke and those that forced
Coke to bring back the "classic" coke. When's the last time you tasted a "new" coke? I guess I will always be a "classic" sort of guy. Give me the extension with the frets and learn to enjoy the click! Fads are just that fads!

[Jeff Hoelter]

On the front page of the Cafe is a picture of John Reischman holding a mandolin with a scooped fretboard. Most of us know he has a Loar, and I think he also has a Heiden. #It doesn't look like a Heiden fretboard to me, so did John have his Loar scooped, or is this another mandolin? #Anybody know???

If I'm not mistaken, John had the whole fingerboard replaced on his Loar, at least partly because the original frets were in the wrong spot so the intonation was off. #While he was at it he had the new fingerboard radiused and scooped. #I believe he saved the old fingerboard.

Jeff

[JAK]

Okay, okay, but is Reischman's Loar scooped or not? Hope someone knows, just out of curosity.

[JAK]

Sorry, I was only reading page 2, thanks jeffh for the info on Reischman's Loar.

[mandoman4807]

Cheap simple fix: If you gets the clicks, cut the points off the picks.





# #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Darrell