Kel kroydon mandolin

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

Can anybody tell me about the Kel Kroydon Mandolins of the 1930's. I do have a thing for the name. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jim Garber]

According to Walter Carter, Gibson Guitars: 100 Years of An American Icon:

Kel Kroyden started as a toy line which was an attempt to keep the Gibson Compnay financially afloat during the depression. They essentially made wooden pull toys with cute bunnies and wooden boats. After the toy line was dropped as of around 1934 it continued to be used for budget line of instruments.

I believe that instruments with the Kel Kroyden name on them were made starting around 1930.

The big mystery, as I undertand it, is where the name actually came from.

[fredfrank]

Tom--when are you gonna start doing cryo mandolin strings?

We're ready for 'em!

[MikeEdgerton]

The brand was gone by 1933.

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

Hello Frank

Cryo Mandolin strings will be made in the future. I retire from my regular job in 71 more Mondays. Then, I will have the time to dedicate what we can do to more products outside of the banjo world. Right now I don't have time. There's only 24 hrs in a day. The banjo side keeps me busy 7 days a week.

I just started (Novice) picking on a Mandolin. I've been thinking of making a few Kel Kroydon mandolins replicated from the past. Who knows, Its in the should I or shouldn't I stage. I want to learn more about the instrument and its history first.

Have a nice day

[MikeEdgerton]

The only two models that Gruhn lists of mandolins made under the Kel Kroydon name were as follows:

KK-20: Similar to Gibson C-1
KK-21: Pearloid fingerboard

The Gibson C-1 was as follows:

C-1: Flat top, oval soundhole, mahogany back and sides, painted on pickguard, clamshell tailpiece cover, bound top, unbound back, ebony fingerboard, silkscreen logo, natural top finish. Only catalog appearance 1932.

The KK-21 would have been the same with a mother-of-toilet seat fingerboard.

Kel Kroydon was one of Gibson's second lines. Generally these instruments were made up of various Gibson parts. You might find a body of one style with the neck and headstock of another and the bridge from another. I had a Gibson second line guitar that was made in the 30's that had an arched top body and the same neck and headstock shape as the Kel Kroydon guitar. The bridge was a fixed model that had been on a mid-20's model. It appears they looked around to see what they had or could manufacture quickly.

The major difference between the second lines and Gibson's main lines is that the second lines didn't have truss rods. From the drawing in the link below the C-1 might not have had one either. It was obviously a budget model with it's painted on pickguard and flat top and back and the fact that it was only in the Gibson catalog one year may speak of a marketing plan that didn't live up to expectations.

Here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=36112;hl=c1) is a thread that has some information and images of the Gibson C-1 to compare it to. I would guess that the headstock would have looked similar to the Kel Kroydon guitar that is in Frank Ford's www.frets.com (http://www.frets.com) Museum. That can be found here (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Museum/Guitar/Gibson/KelKroydon/kelkroydon.html).

The Kel Kroydon mandolins were basically flat top and back oval hole mandolins, not unlike the Gibson Army-Navy and the Kalamazoo KM-11. Some of them sounded pretty good but they certainly weren't world beaters by any means. I've never seen a branded Kel Kroydon mandolin.

Flatiron started out making similar mandolins and the Big Muddy (formerly Mid-mo) mandolins are similar in construction but not exact copies.

[MikeEdgerton]

Well, I can't say I've never seen one now. Paul Hostetter uploaded this picture a while back.

http://www.freedomguitar.com/images/kelkroydon3266.jpg

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

Hi Mike

As we speak I was trying to make that Kel picture my Avatar. A computer genius I'm am not.
Here is a copy of a label some one sent me from a KK Mandolin.

http://img2.putfile.com/main/4/9608495071.jpg

[MikeEdgerton]

Most images don't make good avatars unless they are pretty much square to begin with.

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

Lesson learned quickly.

Thanks for all the info so far. Lots more to learn.

[Tom Mylet]

Tom: I'd love to have a Kel Kroydon mandolin with a MOP fingerboard and headstock to match my Kel Kroydon banjo.

Tom M

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

Hey Tom, It's got me thinking. Would be fun.

Thank You Bill, I feel official now http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Jim Garber]

Sorry, Tom, I didn't check out your web site first. You, of course, know the history of KK and was just inquiring about the mandolins.

[David Newton]

Kel Kroyden and Kalamazoo were identical but for the paint on the head, I bet.

[MikeEdgerton]

Kel Kroyden and Kalamazoo were identical but for the paint on the head, I bet.

There were differences but they were minor. The Kalamazoo KM-11 had a pickguard and came in a sunburst finish. The Kroydon had an oval hole, the Kalamazoo was round. For the most part I'm sure the Kel Kroydon was the basis for the KM-11. The tuners, bridge, and tailpiece were the same. The headstocks were the same in the first year of Kalamazoo production but changed in the second year to a pointed headstock. All of the Gibson second lines were amalgamations of pieces from other Gibson products. It was like they were sweeping the factory floor and throwing on whatever they had left over.

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

No apologies necessary. The Kel Kroydon Banjo story I know very well. I know nothing about the KK mandolin and its history. What other place would be better to learn than here?.

If I learn enough, maybe we'll have a little fun an build some replicas.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you find a place that has more information than you can find here let me know. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

My point exactly. Surfing here over the past few days on I have to say the MC is a wealth of great information. Tops in my book.

And mighty fine hospitable people.

[Paul Hostetter]

What I find interesting is that Gibson spelled the name two different ways: Kroyden and Kroydon.

[Kel Kroydon Banjo]

All my research came up with Kroydon.

[MikeEdgerton]

That's all I've ever seen on instruments. I've seen it spelled wrong on websites.

[Paul Hostetter]

What I find more interesting is that so many of my posts are simply disappearing, along with my tracking of threads they're in.

Eric Schoenberg told me over the weekend that he just saw an archtop Kel Kroydon mandolin.

[Martin Jonas]

The major difference between the second lines and Gibson's main lines is that the second lines didn't have truss rods.
Wouldn't you say that the major difference is that the second lines had carved tops whereas the second lines had either flattops or pressed archtops?

The A-jr after all is a "proper" Gibson, and has no truss rod.

Martin

[Bill Snyder]

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1930-s-Kel-Kroydon-Gibson-Mandolin_W0QQitemZ130245233613QQihZ003QQcategoryZ1 0179QQ
ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Here </a>is one currently for sale.

[MikeEdgerton]

The major difference between the second lines and Gibson's main lines is that the second lines didn't have truss rods.
Wouldn't you say that the major difference is that the second lines had carved tops whereas the second lines had either flattops or pressed archtops?

The A-jr after all is a "proper" Gibson, and has no truss rod.

Martin
No, because there were non-carved Gibson mandolins as well made in the same time period. The major difference that was there was no truss rod and keep in mind that the Jr. preceded the 2nd line instruments by many years. By the time they started making the 2nd line instruments all Gibson 1st line models had truss rods. The A Jr. was discontinued in 1927. The true 2nd lines such as Kel Kroydon and Kalamazoo were started in the 30's. Gibson did make some off brand banjos (Oriole, the name was revived in the 30's in the Kalamazoo line) in the late 20's. I'll note they didn't have truss rods either.

[brunello97]

The major difference between the second lines and Gibson's main lines is that the second lines didn't have truss rods.
Wouldn't you say that the major difference is that the second lines had carved tops whereas the second lines had either flattops or pressed archtops?

The A-jr after all is a "proper" Gibson, and has no truss rod.

Martin
No, because there were non-carved Gibson mandolins as well made in the same time period. .....

Mike, can you clarify here? #I'm not sure where you are viz Gibson production at this time and the carved/pressed, truss-rod/no, 1st/2nd line variables. #

No challenge, just looking to see the light.

Sorry....

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

Not every Gibson instrument (guitars and mandolins)was carved, there were flat tops and backs on a few models as well. The 2nd lines didn't always follow the 1st line and there were possibly some carved top guitars in the 2nd lines as some shared bodies with the first lines. I'm not totally convinced that the L-30's were carved by the way so there may have been pressed top Gibson 1st lines on the low end. The carved vs. pressed wasn't a distinguishing factor always but the truss rod was. You can actually read about this on page 298 of Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars. It mentions that Gibson did this on purpose to make the instruments cheaper to manufacture and to distinguish them from the 1st lines.

[Oliver R]

Sorry to reanimate this thread but nice one here...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-gibson-kel-kroydon-mandolin-/300610708157?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instr uments&hash=item45fdcb62bd#ht_500wt_1202

[brunello97]

Sorry to reanimate this thread but nice one here...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-gibson-kel-kroydon-mandolin-/300610708157?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instr uments&hash=item45fdcb62bd#ht_500wt_1202

Actually, thanks for reanimating the thread, Oliver! I love these second-line Gibsons and would enjoy keeping the conversations going.

I've attached a photo from the UK KK add and also one of a Gibson C-1 mandolin (courtesy Paul) which the earlier discussion suggests were the groundwork for the KK mandolins. Hard to tell from these views how much of an induced arch or pressed arch the Cs or KKs had.

655L ought to get one a proper Gibson A in today's market, though prices might be higher for them in the UK. The KK looks to be in good shape and the relative rarity might be driving the estimate.

Mick

[Ray(T)]

For info - Basic Gibson "A"s tend to start at about £1000 retail here in the UK. I think this reflects the fact that there aren't as many of them around as in the US.

[MikeEdgerton]

I don't think that case is original by the way.