Played some eastmans for the first time

[Geoff]

I'm about to be in the market for a new mandolin and I found four Eastmans to play today. I played a 505, two 615s, and an 815. I really liked them all and wasn't sure that I would when I went it. they all had a fuller chop than I expected and nice overall tone, darker than my current Morgan Monroe (I dont know what my model is...). The two 615s, however, were worlds apart. one set of strings was obviously older than the other, which may have had something to do with it. The owner of the shop was really helpful and let my friend and I play some stuff from the back of the store, like a $6500 collings guitar and a factory second eastman mandola, which I also enjoyed playing. I'd never played a mandola before and found that jazz chords were far easier to finger on the larger fretboard and the deeper tone seemed like it would be better for jazz comping. What I'm really excited about is that they're gonna give me a ring when the Eastman guy comes by in about a month with "50-100" eastmans in a truck and let me sample to my heart's content. I've got a few more brands I want to check out before a make a purchase, but I'm definitely considering an eastman now.

[allenhopkins]

I think you have already learned something that I've experienced myself, and heard from other Eastman players: quite a bit of variation between individual instruments, and higher-priced models don't necessarily sound or play better than lower-priced.

I envy you with several dozen to try! A suggestion: when you've winnowed the choice down to two or three, have another player play them while you listen. Sometimes makes a lot of difference to hear them from a few feet away.

[Geoff]

I agree with having someone else play them in front of me. When I went to look I had a friend who plays guitar with me often and we picked a few tunes with him on guitar. That was also helpful since I hear myself playing those songs with him all the time and made the difference in sound pretty obvious. I'm also going to try some J. Boviers if I can get myself to make a two hour drive to play some.

Has anybody ever been to a shop called Picker's Supply in Fredricksburg VA? Im thinking of making a trip there because they seem to have a fine selections of mandos and it's only an hour drive from me in Richmond.

[Stephen Perry]

Be sure to straighten the bridges up, not have them leaning. That's most of the difference in a batch of mandolins arriving - the amount of bridge lean!

[bshpmark]

I played an Eastman a couple of weeks ago that I must say while it sounded great, the workmanship on it was really bad. It had lots of rough edges around the binding and there was a pretty good-sized gap at the neck and the body on one side. It wasn't even filled in. Somehow it must have slipped by QA.

I still hope to own one someday. I'll just inspect it really well before I sink a grand into it and buy it.

[Geoff]

hmmm, thats unfortunate to hear, I also saw a post on here about an eastman with a misaligned tailpiece. Hopefully I'll notice such things on any instrument before I purchase it. Thanks for the heads up.

[bshpmark]

You're right, Geoff. Any instrument needs to be inspected. On my Morgan Monroe MFM-300 I noticed a couple of scuff marks on the white binding after I got it home. Took it back and he fellow at the store took an X-acto knife and steel wool and in about 30 seconds all was A-OK.

[Stephen Perry]

The Eastman mandolins coming in from the latest production have been the best I've seen. I like the new logo, too. They've also sold unmarked seconds, leaving it up to the dealer to inform buyers. Perhaps an optimistic approach.

[Willie Poole]

I agree with Perry....About three years ago I played nine Eastmans at a festival and none of them knock my socks off but just last week I played two that really talked to me, if I was in the market for another mandolin I would have bought one but not at the price they wanted, the sticker was 12oo and I have heard of some for 6 to 8oo...The craftsmanship on those two was great, I didn`t look them over with a fine tooth comb but nothing jumped out at me....STILL...I don`t think there will ever be a big demand for used Eastmans in the future as they are are being mass produced and thrown out onto the market every day...Plus there are so many builders today that maybe the day of a "Collectors" item is long gone....If you are interested there is an Eastman that has been played by a professional listed on the DCBU.org site for around 600 bucks and the owner swears it is the best one he has ever played and he played professionally for many years....Check it out....Willie

[Jim Nollman]

Interesting about the poor workmanship. I've seen and played lots of Eastmans, and never seen one yet that had anything shoddy looking.

The other thing that's been stated many times here, is that in the case of Eastman's you don't always get what you pay for. My own is a 515, that was chosen by a friend from out of a big lot, like you have the opportunity to do. A few weeks later, another friend of mine bought a 915 which is absolutely gorgeous blond. But even he admits that mine clearly cuts his with its sweet and woody barking tone.

[scadgrad]

Hey Geoff,
A bit OT, but LMK how that trip to Fred-town goes. I'm in Richmond m'self, and I've not really found a local store that I care much for. I'm about a mile away from both Sam Ash and GC, but even their acoustic guitar selection is a bit lacking, as for mandos, it's pretty sad really. Neither store seems to have much interest in selling to the ITM, BG, Folk crowd. Good luck w/ the Eastman, I considered going down that road, but went w/ the MK instead.

[Geoff]

hey scrad, ill definitely let you know how pickers supply is if I end up going. Richmond Music Center on midlothian turnpike is where i went to play the eastmans. For mandos they only carry eastman and epiphone. But they have a great selection of acoustic guitars. Taylor, Martin, Bourgiose, Collings, and probably more, but I wasnt looking at the guitars. But thats a better selection than most in town for bluegrass and folk. Not sure why they dont have Collings mandolins as well.

[shadco]

I agree with having someone else play them in front of me. When I went to look I had a friend who plays guitar with me often and we picked a few tunes with him on guitar. That was also helpful since I hear myself playing those songs with him all the time and made the difference in sound pretty obvious. I'm also going to try some J. Boviers if I can get myself to make a two hour drive to play some.

Has anybody ever been to a shop called Picker's Supply in Fredricksburg VA? Im thinking of making a trip there because they seem to have a fine selections of mandos and it's only an hour drive from me in Richmond.
I was down there recently and played the ones they had. As I recall they had an A style that was decent but the others left me looking for something else. There is a new dealer in Annapolis that just started stocking Eastman and they might have something worth looking at. gpguitars.com. They are primarily a PRS dealer but they have been doing very well with Eastman guitars and their mando stock for what it is is fresh

[Steve Ostrander]

Eastmans tend to be a little tight at first but they open up after a couple months. Mine did anyway.

I think they are a good value. I paid 800 and some change for my md615 which was sold as new. I've never regretted it. Of course there are better mandos out there, but for now, for me, it works.

[SChase@EastmanStrings]

If anyone is in Southern California, you are welcome to come to the distribution center and sample some instruments. Just shoot me a PM.

[lespaul_79]

Ok... after spending the last 4 months obsessing over these chat threads and playing Eastmans and other mandos, I can only say.... get a Collings MT. My budget was $1500ish and I wanted TONE.

My amigos here said forget the F and get an MT. I did and it's better than I ever expected. Before you get that Eastman, spend some time with a Collings MT.

Check this one out from Barry in Broomfield, CO. The Ad Number is 27623. (Didnt know how to post the exact link.)

Just got mine 2 weeks ago, and kinda still freaking out.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[lespaul_79]

If that is your budget, by the way.... I thought the Eastman 815's were between $1200 to $1500ish. I think...

[Jeff Hildreth]

"unmarked seconds"

"leaving it up to the dealers to inform customers"


Both statements say a lot.

[Snakebeard Jackson]

I've played four of these. mine is a "campfire" mandolin. Two of them were "next one please" mandolins. And one that I know of rings like a bell.

[Geoff]

Willie, thanks for letting me know about that one for sale on DCBU. I have received no response from that guy, but its a great price and the mp3s of that mando do sound pretty great. Today I played a gibson A9 and an A-style by Breedlove (never got the model name). Unfortunately I disliked both of them a great deal. The gibson in particular. It had a deep and meaty chop that I thought sounded great but a very dead and dull tone on individual notes, especially on the higher strings. The breedlove sounded a tiny bit better but had a weaker chop. The eastman 505, blew both of those away in all aspects. I'm not going to dismiss Breedlove as a brand, but I definitely had higher hopes. Maybe they were two duds from an otherwise decent line.

[JeffD]

Has anybody ever been to a shop called Picker's Supply in Fredricksburg VA? #Im thinking of making a trip there because they seem to have a fine selections of mandos and it's only an hour drive from me in Richmond.
Yes, and they do!

[Stephen Perry]

"unmarked seconds"

"leaving it up to the dealers to inform customers"


Both statements say a lot.
Yes, they'll do an inspection after the label is in and catch things. That's a good thing. They'll offer their dealers a chance to pass on savings. That's a good thing. Dealers are supposed to sell the unmarked seconds as "used." Eastman trusts their dealers. There are also people selling "new" mandolins who aren't dealers for the manufacturers. Something to watch for.

As to something misaligned slipping through, it can happen. I haven't seen anything like that in the mandolins coming through here, but it can happen to anyone.

[Jeff Hildreth]

In my world

Seconds would be trashed.. or at least clearly identified..

Leaving the decision up to the dealer... what,to be honest and disclose they bought it as a second ?

what psycho babble

"they'll offer their dealers a chance to pass on savings"

How about just being straight up and clearly mmarking the seconds

Seems that the customer is at risk and it
could reflect on the manufacturer somewhere down the road

IMNSHO it is a shoddy practice and smacks of the possibility of deception
by omission of course

And if the practice is disclosed,the manufacturer can always say... well we told them to tell the customer

Yes misalignment can happen.. I waited for months for a Red Diamond and refused it because the neck was off center (among other things)

[scgc.om]

<political content removed by moderator>

[pdb]

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[MikeEdgerton]

We have now violated the posting guidelines. Please take this opportunity to review them.

Posting Guidelines (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=23&t=13100)

[MikeEdgerton]

<political content removed by moderator> #. . . .
The reason it hasn't been discussed and won't be discussed is because the posting guidelines say that we aren't going to discuss hot button issues like politics.

[Ken Olmstead]

My father-in-law has a 615 that has matured into an exquisit (sp) sounding mandolin at any price! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[minnedolin]

I own an Eastman 815 F-style with a blonde laquer finish. Great mandolin, a bit bright yet (I've had some reservations and buyers remorse but I'm starting to get over it, as it can only hinder any musical progress right?...Right, Just play the dang thing!!!) I put on a Weber wood nymph and it helps with those "ghosts" Anyways, about the political arguments concerning the oppressed China--my news usually comes second-hand, so my currency is..not current. The American media doesn't talk much about it! Hmmm, trade, money, greed?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[JEStanek]

My Eastman 814 oval hole really liked the JazzMando JM-11 flatwounds strings... warmed up the tone so it wasn't so bright. Comfy too. I have sellers remorse for losing it.... Mine was/is a good mandolin.

Jamie

[Stephen Perry]

So seconds should be trashed? Plenty of less well off folks around here wouldn't be playing what they play without seconds. It's pretty easy for those not in charge of companies to make up the rules they'd follow.

There's a manufacturer who destroys seconds and charges a fortune for the survivors. They get dinged here.

There's a manufacturer sending out firsts with all kinds of goofs, patches in the wood. They get promoted and dinged here.

And so on. Eastman isn't atypical. I've never had any problem selling a cosmetic second as a second and giving a good deal. I've seen other dealers doing this. Maybe some didn't. I notice Eastman dumped some dealers. No idea if this was the cause.

The Eastman seconds I've gotten have either had plugs in the wood (very minor and non-structural) or have had finish/cosmetic problems. I doubt they'd send out anything structural. I know they'll send instruments with troubles back to China for any deep fixes. Broken in shipping and so on.

Policies evolve. Things change. It's very easy to call the plays after the fourth quarter ends.

[minnedolin]

Those Eastmans with the Oval holes are sweet. I do wish I would have opted for that style simply because I am drawn closer to the jazzy/Dawg style music(for now anyways)In theory could the Jazz Mando JM-11s smooth the tone? I've got some Sam Bs stretched taut over ma baby-booba and all is well but could the JMs smooth the sound, like fresh pressed coffee(smooth) as opposed to folgers(gets me going)? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Ken Olmstead]

Those Eastmans with the Oval holes are sweet. #I do wish I would have opted for that style simply because I am drawn closer to the jazzy/Dawg style music(for now anyways)In theory could the Jazz Mando JM-11s smooth the tone? I've got some Sam Bs stretched taut over ma baby-booba and all is well but could the JMs smooth the sound, like fresh pressed coffee(smooth) as opposed to folgers(gets me going)? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Faltwounds should warm that baby right up!

[Jeff Hildreth]

Steve,

I said "in my world". I am an artist and a furniture maker... I have no seconds. That is my world. If I made instruments for sale, that would be my world.
I don't rule any one else's world so do not propose to dictate what other should do. Eastman and Martin and Gibson are free to do what they would like.

However.. not marking seconds as seconds is a corporate/philosophic decision that borders on deceptive if not handled correctly. Note I said if not handled correctly.

If manufacturers, including Eastman, #mark the seconds as seconds..then there would be no guessing and no opportunity for deception, inadvertant or otherwise. #Simple solution.

"Eastman isn't atypical" ; which means they are "typical". ?

Eastman dumped some dealers for what ?... , there is no eveidence presented that selling seconds as firsts is the cause; a diversion and an attempt at excusing their actions.? #My information is that dealers were not following pricing/advertising guidelines.

I have played quite a few Eastman guitars and mandolins. #As a percentage, I liked more of the guitars than the mandolins. One non cutaway archtop with oval hole and absolutely no figure in the maple stands out. #BTW this guitar was sold to the dealer at a special low price, but put out #at full list. Their store, their right to do so. #

The mandolins have been #all over the map,from #excellent to indifferent , .. #But as the nut width is narrow, I find them unplayable. Others find their smaller than Gibson proportions to be acceptable. #I did find one early (long scale full frets) prototype 2 pointer to be exceptional. However the production models came out with short scale and an abbreviated fretting. #No sale.

Instruments are case by case.. I play before I pay.

[auteq]

I have an Eastman 615, great sound ect. I did have to replace the bridge but it was my fault on an Irish retuning, party,and nuclear summit thing.(it's what they do in NE)

[Stephen Perry]

How are the scales short? They come up just under 14" when I measure.

Marking seconds would be good, even if with an additional sticker. I'll suggest it.

[allenhopkins]

Marking seconds would be good, even if with an additional sticker. #I'll suggest it.
Didn't Gibson used to stamp a little "2" into their factory seconds? I think I saw a J-50 guitar with the "2" stamp. Couldn't see what had "seconded" it.

[MikeEdgerton]

Gibson sold seconds in the Gibson guitar line as well as in the entire Epiphone line. The guitars had a 2 stamped on the back of the headstock, the Epiphones had a B if I recall (this included mandolins), I could be wrong. Big Joe said they didn't sell seconds so I'm assuming that was the OAI division. The guitars I've seen were 90's and older, the Epiphone stuff was last year.

Martin doesn't sell seconds, they will cut up a guitar or keep it at the factory as a beater for the employees to play on their breaks, at least that is what they tell you on the Martin factory tour.

[Ken Olmstead]

I saw a Guild guitar lately that was a second. The serial number on the headstock was carved out and the lable had the serial number marked out with marker. Not a clear way to mark a second. I initially though the guitar might be stolen.

Tough call. I mean sending out seconds can have a "cheapening" effect on the brand and suggest overall quality issues. But given the state of tonewoods and the amount of time and energy that goes into a "Second" it does seem like it would find a happy home somewhere and at least cover the fixed costs of the materials and overhead. I generally have to look the instrument over with a fine tooth comb to find the flaw (like Allen suggested.) It is almost always finish oriented and rarely structural. I agree either way, all manufacturers should clearly mark the instrument as a second and disclose any warranty exclusions related to that instrument. But if I like the sound and the way it plays, I would definately accept some finish deficiencies in the interest of a significant discount.

[Jeff Hildreth]

"short scale" # Attaches to the body #not at the 15th but at a lesser number of frets. Scale length is the same

I was using terminology of those posting on the Eastman discussion group...just following in their misadventure

Stickers can be peeled off... # not a solution... # off in 5 seconds and it becomes a first
perhaps a branding iron ? #or drill a hole through the peghead

Being forthright is not a tough call.. that's called integrity


I thought Guild was known for not marking,and offing,seconds at "special" prices... dealers were admonished to disclose same... right

I have never seen a Guild "second" for sale.

Overhead.. semi-fixed and variable #as I recall : )
just a little hair splitting

Wonder what Collings does with seconds ? ( as if they have any)

Another note: #What constitutes a "second" or a "blem" at one manufacturer may not be the same as another.

If one were to look at a group of instruments by A #and see the finish glitches and the binding glitches and the fret glitches etc.. and compare the prices to #
B #where there are no finish, fret or binding glitches ...many comparable #to the A brand model for model
what is the conclusion;the integrity of the manufacturer or their own scale of quality control?
I have my observations and opinions.

Also #in my experience, the Pac Rim makers #specifically the Japanese, use a higher scale of scrutiny

As to the Korean and Chinese produced instruments, I will surmise that a level of acceptance is determined by the importer/distributor.

[Stephen Perry]

On the Eastman mandolins I have, the F hole models, the 15th fret lies in the same position as on other F hole mandolins. Their oval hole mandolins use a shorter neck.

The Chinese quality of everything seems to depend on what the importer will accept.

I know Eastman has sent back a bunch of stuff that wasn't up to snuff or was broken.

The Japanese work is always first class in the violin world.

I thought China and Korea were pac rim. I have a wonderful pac rim guitar - made in Ecuador.

Will be interesting to see how this works out. I find original labels with the XXXXX(2) serial number to be sufficient myself. If the original label is gone, that's a big hint.

[MikeEdgerton]

"short scale" Attaches to the body not at the 15th but at a lesser number of frets. Scale length is the same
I think you'll find that the F5 style neck joins the body at the 14th fret.

[Daniel Wheeler]

Collings seconds are never shipped out according to what I learned from my tour. I gather they take a lot of pride in their building as they should. He said that the seconds stay in the shop and various people end up with them but they are never sent out. Those guys at collings are top notch.

[MandoGordon]

When I was at Eastman we marked every second that went out with a bracketed two after the serial number on the label and on the authenticity certificate that accompanied every instrument ie. Ser# 4465(2). We were very strict on this and we had a section on the online forum (that doesn't exist anymore) where this was explained fully. I doubt that Eastman would be trying to pull the wool on this one, it makes very little sense since such a small detail could destroy a reputation that they have been working hard at building quite successfully for years. Personally I could not destroy a handmade instrument that played and sounded great simply because there was a minor blemish or problems in the finish or the tonewood that would not affect the tone or the instruments longevity. That to me is akin to vandalism. As long as it is clearly marked as a second it is an honorable transaction in my opinion. Can you equate postings about the misuse of scarce wood resources with others condemning the use of seconds and suggesting they be destroyed? I don't think so, not very "green" and not very logical methinks.
Gordon

[cooper4205]

Yes misalignment can happen.. I waited for months for a Red Diamond and refused it because the neck was off center (among other things)
I guess you wouldn't want a Loar then? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[gnelson651]

When I was at Eastman we marked every second that went out with a bracketed two after the serial number on the label and on the authenticity certificate that accompanied every instrument ie. Ser# 4465(2).
Interesting. When I bought my Eastman 805, ser # 59(2), the dealer told me it was a prototype but didn't say anything about it being a "second."

My reason for buying that 805 was 1) the price was $150 less street value, and 2) my thoughts was that a prototype would be built to stricter standards because it would be shown at dealer shows. This particular 805 doesn't have the standard gold tailpiece either.

Too bad I didn't know that it was a second.

[Stephen Perry]

Dealer might not have known that early in the game. I didn't figure it out right away myself!

[The Mandolin Store]

I just returned from a week in China. I spent 2 days at the Eastman factory. One of those days was spent with the head mandolin builder working on tone bars. They have 2 new instruments that they are building for me with the new carving to see if it sounds better as I think it will. I think this new carving pattern will allow more bass response.

The second day I worked with the gal there who does the hand rubbed stain and varnish on the new 815 red spruce varnish model. The colors that were being used at present were a bit to bold and we were trying to get it back to that vintage tobacco burst. It's hard to tell exactly until you see it with the varnish on it but I think we got it right. I will have this also once it's completed.

I found Eastman to be very responsive. These guys want to build the best mandolins possible!

At the factory, I was like a kid at a candy store. I could have slept there in a sleeping bag and kept trying out instruments. I could not stay there 24 /7 as I had to keep an eye on my wife to make sure she did not spend to much money at the pearl market. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I plan to post about my trip on the website soon but feel free to call me if you'd like to know more about our China trip.

Thanks,
Dennis

[TomTyrrell]

Maybe the seconds should all be marked the way these guys do it.

Subtle markings (http://www.redbeartrading.com/seconds.html)