5-string mandola

[Evan Mahoney]

Instead of the mandolin with a low C string, would I be hard pressed to ever find a mandola with a high E string? I would prefer the larger instrument if I was going to have the same notes.

[first string]

I wonder if Mike Marshall's new Smart 10 string wasn't a bit bigger than a standard mandolin...

[allenhopkins]

Larger 10-string instruments are often given the appellation "cittern," and you can find more about them on the CBOM forum further down this board. Here's a fairly recent thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=16;t=12678;hl=10string) on five-course instruments. Consensus seems to be it's hard to build one that accommodates both the low "C" and the high "E" course, without the lower one sounding "floppy," or the higher one being overstretched and breaking.

Many Greek bouzoukis are 5-course (10-string). Greek bouzouki tuning is fourths rather than fifths, so they don't have the CGDAE range you're looking for. Vega made 10-string cylinder-back instruments that covered the range of mandolin and mandola; don't know how well they accommodated the greater range.

You might also consider a waldzither, a German instrument with 5 double courses and a single-string lowest course. They pop up fairly regularly on eBay. Google search reveals quite a bit about them; they're usually tuned to open C, but by experimenting with string gauges you could probably get CGDAE tuning.

[danb]

If you keep an eye peeled, you might also find a vintage vega 10-string mandola. I had one for a while, it worked pretty well!

Lloyd Loar had at least 2 different ones.. one has F-holes and is in private collection in California. The other is of unknown wherabouts, and appears to have been built on an H2 body.

There is at least one other vintage gibson 10-string mando, which is similar to an F4 with an enlarged body

[mandroid]

visiting the website, recently, J.Condino to order, offers a 10 string , with a fan fret ...
the range of string tensions can, then, be better,

trying to hit a high e with a too long scale means it's brittle tight
and low C without enough length then 'floppy' tension can be felt.

as a custom build a 5 string can be done too, most likely.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[TonyP]

First string, yes, Mike Marshall's Smart 10 string is bigger. It's about the size of a mandola. The reason I know is I made a Tone-Gard for said instrument and went off the tracing Mike sent. Very interesting instrument, and in his hands I can only imagine what he'll come up with. Mike was telling me that he's already written several tunes that kinda popped out while playing the instrument. What amazed me was him saying that the fretting didn't take hardly any time at all to be comfortable with. But then again, Mike's hands are way larger than mine, and would have no problem doing the stretches that would probably kill me.

[trevor]

There are several 10 string mandola/mandolins on my website '10 string/cittern pages'. Both 14" and 16" scale.

[Martin Jonas]

You might also consider a waldzither, a German instrument with 5 double courses and a single-string lowest course. #They pop up fairly regularly on eBay. #Google search reveals quite a bit about them; they're usually tuned to open C, but by experimenting with string gauges you could probably get CGDAE tuning.
Waldzithers are great value for that sort of thing: they usually go for around 100 Euro on Ebay Germany, but you may have problems with international shipping and with payment. #Most German Ebay sellers don't accept Paypal, and the default way of payment there is direct bank transfer (which is free within Germany and has been the normal way of personal payments for many decades). #There are at least three Ebayers who specialise in buying up waldzithers and mandolins on Ebay Germany and reselling them on Ebay UK and US for about twice the original price. #You avoid the language barrier and get a seller who is used to international payment and shipping, but you pay for the privilege.

Converting a waldzither to a mandola is pretty straightforward and they do usually sound really good. #Scale length varies a lot: most have 18", which is fine for conversion to a "normal" four-course CGDA mandola, or to a GDAEB cittern, but you won't be able to go higher than that on the fifth course. #Some have 17" scale, and I have one which is an actual 10-string (rather than the usual 9-string) with 16" scale. #That one is just fine for CGDAE, although I now prefer CGDAD. #Waldzithers are probably the cheapest way of experimenting with five-course citterns, and you get great vintage tone. #Of course, you also get the usual pitfalls of buying unrestored vintage attic finds, but that's part of the appeal.

Martin

[Evan Mahoney]

Okay, so I was walking to a class when I had this thought and everyone answered brilliantly. I forgot to mention that I was kinda thinking of an electric, single strung version. I love the courses, but I was daydreaming about Micheal Kang of String Cheese and I know he played a Baritone mandolin. (maybe someone can shed some light on what a baritone mandolin is, as well)
Allanhopkins-would the same problems arise if the instrument were not acoustic and there were no courses?

[allenhopkins]

...maybe someone can shed some light on what a baritone mandolin is, as well.

Allanhopkins-would the same problems arise if the instrument were not acoustic and there were no courses?
[1] #Haven't heard the term "baritone mandolin." #Normal nomenclature, we have the mandolin GDAE, we have the mandola CGDA, we have the octave mandolin GDAE an octave lower than the mandolin, and we have the mandocello CGDA an octave lower than the mandola.

Now in Europe, the octave mandolin is sometimes called a "mandola," and the mandola a "tenor mandola," so there is confusion about what's called what.

Here's a link (http://www.emando.com/players/Kang.htm) to the emando.com discussion of Michael Kang's "baritone mandolin," with some hypothetical tunings. #Couldn't find any matches in our own e-mando forum.

[2] #Possibly there might be fewer problems if you were dealing with a solid-body instrument, as the "floppy" C-string wouldn't have to drive a top acoustically. #And, parenthetically, it seems that one could experiment with a variety of string gauges, until one was found that would have enough tension not to feel "floppy." #As to the question of whether strings of widely varying diameters can intonate accurately on a short scale instrument -- or whether "fanned" frets and super-compensated bridges are needed -- I bow out due to lack of expertise. #I know that I have had problems on my tiples -- short-scale instruments, with octave string pairings in a single course -- getting accurate intonation. #But there are surely many examples of five-string or five-course instruments that have been used successfully.

[mandroid]

Octave down GDAEB, from He who takes your deposit and stiffs you on delivering any product, ever.
From My Personal story.. of mail fraud [that Boulder D.A. is not pursuing]
Ron Oates, dishonored Colorado builder..

the concept: octave mandolin plus a higher 5th,5th string, the B.

[EdSherry]

In response to Evan's question, five-string electrics tuned CGDAE are pretty common. Most of the ones I've seen are closer to "mandolin" scale length than to "mandola" scale length. I'm sure you could have a mandola-scale-length electric made for you, but ...

[thistle3585]

I've made 5 strings in the following scale 13.875", 14.5", 17" and 18". I couldn't get the E string to work on the 17" and 18" and the C was floppy on the 13.875". In my opinion, the only viable one was the 14.5". With that said, I am getting ready to build a 19" and a 15" tuned CGDAE. I guess I'm too accommodating. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandroid]

FWIW pentasystem pentaula a 15" scale AEBF#C# its still 5ths
Chords :what was G is then E. advantage playing in/with guitar bands that play a lot in Emaj