Mayflower bowl-back

[swallowfield]

Hello mandoleers,

Was wondering if anyone has seen/heard or played an early Mayflower mandolin. #I've got one on hold and am seriously considering purchase. It can be found here:


http://www.guitarandbanjo.com/inventory/used-mando.html

The store owner sent me pics...very nice condition. # What do you think? #Assuming good playability and sound...is $600 a fair price?

[Jim Garber]

Mayflower is the brand name of mandolins made by Flower & Groehsl who were Chicago makers. I think the label is one of the great things about this mandolin. A picture of (I guess) Mr. Flower's daughter, May is on it.

I have not handled nor played one. They look like decent instruments in terms of workmanship, in line with Washburns. In fact there may be some link with L&H in that they were also in Chicago.

If it needs no work at all $600 is prob an okay price from a dealer. However, almost all of these need some work to make them completely playable. Were there ever any repairs done on it? Does it have a case? Are all parts original? The final question is (when you do get it) is do you like it?

If you have to put more money into it in setups or repairs, then I would say it is not worth it, unless, of course, you are in love with it.

Also find out what strings are on it. There should be very light gauge. GHS A240s are the "workhorse" cheapo set. If you like it you can experiment with other sets. There should NOT be even "light" strings on it. These mandolins were not made for them.

Let us know when you receive it and your thoughts.

[Eugene]

The Flower & Groeschel was actually the earliest proto-incarnation of what would evolve into the campy Kay shop of depression-era Chicago. #Don't worry, this comfortably predates that. #Mike Holmes also lists Mayflower as a brand sometimes used by Lyon & Healy as well, but I don't know what evidence he has for that.

I know I've handled some Mayflower pieces...but I can't recall off the top of my head if any of them were in playable condition. #I also know I've corresponded with somebody here who was mighty underimpressed by the tone of a Mayflower he'd encountered; still, acoustic instruments are very variable, even from the same manufacturer. #Odd that the seller lists this as "Mayflower by Wurlitzer, Chicago." #Wurlitzer was a retailer based in Cincinnati; they built nothing but commissioned a good many instruments, usually of good quality, from decent manafacturers (Martin, for example) for their house brand. #If anything, this technically could be a Wurlitzer by Mayflower/Flower & Groeschel. #This era of retailer labeling was often misleading at best.

Frankly, this dealer's prices seem a little optimistic in general. #The description on the inventory list does make this piece sound to be of a condition and level of ornament to justify $600. #Like Jim says, if it needs much work, it's time to haggle big or pass. #Can you get images from the shop? #Ask the seller a great many pointed questions about condition, especially about the condition of the neck, cant (the top's crease), and action. #If action is as high as ca. 4 mm at the neck-body joint, I would definitely want some corrective surgery. #Ca. 2 mm would be ideal.

[swallowfield]

Thanks for the feed back. # I first saw a mayFlower at http://www.vintageinstruments.com/mandolins.html #. # The one I'm looking at is essentially the same in age and condition except that theirs has only 19 ribs and the one I want has #thirty-six. #Also their asking price is $1250....waaay to rich for my blood. #Below is a brief discription and history from their website.

MM - 0004 ca.1905 Mayflower Bowl Back Mandolin # # EXC + # Nineteen rosewood ribs and an elegant rosewood skirt. Black finish mahogany neck. Enclosedtuning pegs with engraved coverplate. Rosewood headstock overlay. Absolutely stunning top with abalone trimmed soundhole and ablaone inlaid pickguard and beautifully detailed delicate bridge. All original and a real sweetheart that plays fine and sounds great.
As researched by Mugwumps: "In January, 1904 Flower announced "a line of instruments named for his daughter May, that he would sell direct to dealers, but by February the agency for their distribution had been placed with JOSEPH W. STERN & CO. In 1905, "Mayflower" was all one word. One circa 1910 Mayflower guitar has been reported with a label marked "Flower & Groeschl." In 1912 LYON & HEALY announced that they had obtained the sole rights to the name and distribution of Mayflower mandolins and guitars. Later, in the 1920s, STROMBERG-VOISINET advertised a line of Mayflower instruments."
Daughter May is sweetly smiling out from the label which also promises "Sweetest Tone Made". And... MayFlower is two words ... sort of ... (capital "F" on the "flower"). And .... the label states "The Rudolph Wurlitzer Company - Sole Factor".
Robert Hartman, author of "The Larson's Creations", the definitive book on the Larson Brothers work has informed me that this instrument was made by the Larson Brothers.
Original Hard leather 'now strapless' case.
Price: # $1250.00

The dealer at Intermountain Guitar assured me that the MayFlower had the best tone, volume and playability of all of his bowl-backs...some were much more expensive. # He's also giving me a few days to play it before returning it if I'm not satisfied...that sounds fair to me.

[Eugene]

You'll have to post images once you get the instrument in hand. I'm keen to see.