Finger rests (aka pickguards)

[h2o-X]

How many of you use pickguards on your mandolins? Do you find it easy or difficult to switch back and forth between instruments that have or don't have them? Once you use one, and become accustomed to it, is it hard to play without it?

[Ken Sager]

My newest mandolin has one and I don't "use" it, per se. I don't rest on it and I don't brush against it, either. My other mandolins don't have them and they show the finger marks where OTHER folks rest on the top and brush against the top. I play the same whether I'm playing a mandolin with or without a pickguard.

If you post a finger or drag fingers on a pickguard you'll do the same to a mandolin without a pickguard or it'll bug you not to post or drag... so protect your instrument I'd recommend learning to play without posting or dragging, or play only mandolins with pickguards. That means NOT playing other folks mandolins if they don't have pickguards.

Nothing bugs me more than having someone hand back my mandolin with scratch marks where there weren't any before it was handed to them.

I kind of hijacked your thread, but this bears repeating. Plus there have been several threads recently on this very topic.

Here are a few:

http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....ckguard (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=51494;hl=pickguard)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....ckguard (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=50788;hl=pickguard)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....ckguard (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=50656;hl=pickguard)
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....ckguard (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=25;t=49322;hl=pickguard)

Best,
Ken

[Doug Edwards]

A personal choice, don't matter much what others use or think. I think proper technique would not need one, but I do not see myself changing too much at 55. I find myself posting without one and brushing with one. I'd say if you post a finger(s) or play wildly you might consider one.

[AlanN]

Nothing bugs me more than having someone hand back my mandolin with scratch marks where there weren't any before it was handed to them.
Hate that. Now, if someone I don't know asks to play mine, I say "Let me see you pick on your's first." If I like what I see, yes. If not, no.

[Ken Sager]

I hear you Alan. I used to let anybody play and just take my chances. I figured I was helping promote a small local builder by letting folks see what a strong instrument it was.

Well, no more. Some folks are just plain oblivious to the scratches they leave and I'd rather risk being rude than risk scratching the finish on an otherwise flawless instrument. Now when someone asks I just say "I don't want to be rude, but no." If I've had the chance to watch them play beforehand and can tell them that if I see them put a finger on the top for even a second they're done then I'll consider it. Otherwise, I'll have pickguards on all my mandolins from now on. If there are marks, dings, scratches on my mandolin I don't want them to be put there by someone I don't know who was simply being careless.

Best,
Ken

[AlanN]

There are some real flailers and whackers out there. Even a p/g may not prevent stuff. I have seen pick scratches ABOVE the G string.

I had the late great Dempsey Young play my F-5 for a set one time. He knew what he did to a mandolin top, so he was extra careful with the F-5. When he gave it back after the set, he said "Don't worry, Alan, I did not scratch it...too bad" We both laughed.

[woodwizard]

I'm with you Ken & Alan on that.

[JeffD]

I switch back and forth all the time and don't really play any different.

[Cheryl Watson]

I use pickguards at this point. I did not used to use them but I now find them useful as a point of reference. I do not rest my finger(s) on the rest but my fingers touch or brush it. It also protects the finish and I think that the right one for any particular mandolin looks really nice and elegant.

Cheryl http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mandomick]

How many of you use pickguards on your mandolins? Do you find it easy or difficult to switch back and forth between instruments that have or don't have them? Once you use one, and become accustomed to it, is it hard to play without it?
I was a pinky poster/top brusher on the guitar for 30+ years before buying a mandolin and transfering the same bad habits(IMO) to it. A couple years ago I grabbed my pick, closed my hand and stopped cold turkey.(only took a week or two 'till that felt as natural as planting did)I would recomend not relying on a rest so all mandos will feel somewhat the same but I know/have seen some smokin' players with fingers/palms rested etc.

Like Ken stated, I too recently got a new mando with an unexpected abbreviated ebony rest/guard that fits it perfectly, doesn't cover the f hole and is a very clean installation with no visable method of mounting. I'm leaving it on because I like the way it looks and It'll reduce the chances of somebody else doing something to my instrument's top that might make me become susceptable to taking on a less than harmonius demeanor.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mandozilla]

I used to play a mando with a finger rest. I didn't plant a finger on it except lightly for reference and also rested my wrist behind the bridge which helped me avoid resting my forearm om the mando rim/soundplate. And I played semi open handed. Now I play a mando without a finger rest. I got an armrest from Doug Edwards (thanks Doug - no financial interest, just happy with his product) and now I play closed handed and don't rest my wrist behind the bridge anymore. It took me almost no time to change and I'm very pleased with the improvement in mando tone and my right hand technique.:)

[MikeEdgerton]

Hate that. Now, if someone I don't know asks to play mine, I say "Let me see you pick on your's first." If I like what I see, yes. If not, no.
Good thought. I just don't offer mine anymore. The only pick scratches on mine came from other players. I'm not all that picky but I'd like the scars to be caused my my actions.

[cudofcow]

Scratches on your instruments make them look played. I think its a sign of status. Embrace the scratches and dings as battle scars. Thats not to say you shouldnt keep your instruments nicely waxed and polished. I treat my instruments like i treat my pickup truck, both equally well used and cherished.

[Crowder]

My Passernig came with a pickguard. It wasn't in the way, but I took it off when I installed my pickup and liked the way the mandolin looked without it. I never really noticed it when it was there.

FWIW I am one of those guys who has a couple of scratches ABOVE the G string. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Maybe I'd better put it back on after all.

[jasona]

I use pickguards at this point. I did not used to use them but I now find them useful as a point of reference. I do not rest my finger(s) on the rest but my fingers touch or brush it. It also protects the finish and I think that the right one for any particular mandolin looks really nice and elegant.
Me too, and so does the Dawg.

[metalmandolin]

Never had one until I got my F5-L. I really like the cool look and vibe, and find that it does help me play cleaner and preserve the top from finger and pick damage. I don't "plant" all the time, but it is easier to do so with a fingerrest.

[Steve G]

Pickguards feel funny to me so I don't use one. I have tried it though. Consequently, I've worn down to the wood with my pinky on my F5.

[Peter Hackman]

As for the guitar, on a flattop I play with a half-open hand, brushing.
(playing finger-style I used to plant two fingers, but I've given it up).

When playing on the bass strings the extended fingers
lift and #touch the top strings. This technique gives a good arch in the playing hand and avoids all contact with the bridge.

My first mandolins had pickguards so this technique readily translated into brushing, but with my fingers curled. When I got my Flatiron in 1996 it had no guard and I instinctively opened my hand with a tendency to plant, producing a somewhat jerky sound (my hands are small).

As I was 52 years old I wasn't in a mood to learn to play with a floating right hand so I installed a pickguard, a beautiful 3-ply laminate of ebony and maple. And when I had the Collings delivered in 2004 I was almost 60 so I ordered a mini-guard along with it. Oddly, when I discussed the matter with a dealer he responded "so you plant your pinky". That seems to be wide-spread prejudice. I can't think of any player who consistently plants his pinky on a guard and I can think of several who plant on the top.

[Brady Smith]

I treat my instruments like i treat my pickup truck, both equally well used and cherished.
Lol...me too...I've never washed a vehicle and surely not gonna wash and wax a mando.

But on topic...no pick guard here and no scratches.

[f5loar]

Just what is "proper technique"? Are you telling me Bill Monroe, Bobby Osborne, Earl Taylor, David Grisman (early Dawg),Sam Bush, Mike Marshall, Butch Waller who all have silver dollar sized bare wood showing on their prewar Gibson F5s don't have "proper technique"? Then call me "Mr. Improper" cause I believe I'd rather learn from the ones who laid it down first with improper technique.
PS: I've always used a pickguard and really don't like picking without one.

[Cheryl Watson]

I think that if an individual is being hindered by their technique that it is not the proper technique for them as an individual. I know that Mike Compton believes firmly in keeping the picking hand free and not to plant so that he can move up and down the neck to get different tones and so that it does not hinder his picking technique either. Other players like Adam Steffey really plant their pinky and pivot off of it--all an individual thing.

I, for one, would never want a silver dollar sized area in the finish to be worn into my mandolin but I am not the most laid back person either. I guess to some players the worn areas are considered to be kind of cool--"Battle scars" like Cudofcow put it. Adam Steffey had Sim Daley make him a distressed classic F5 with a huge battle scar where the pickguard would normally go.

[BlueMountain]

It seems to me that there was a time when mandolin players had to struggle for that last decibel in volume and did it by playing as hard as possible, and they struggled to strum as fast a possible and got a bit wild and dug into the body.

However, these days microphones can give us the volume we need, so that's less of an excuse. I can understand people getting excited and strumming wildly, but seriously, it's poor technique. Here's why:

1. Your aim should be maximum speed, control, and beauty of tone.
2. All that time when your pick is swinging north and south of the strings, it could be hitting the strings if you had better control.
3. If your pick is going far enough down to hit the top of the mandolin, you are also wasting time and effort.
4. If you don't hold your pick at 90 degrees to the strings, you are going to be slower going either up or down (depending on what angle you are using). Mandolin picking doesn't need the wrist turning often used with guitar chord strumming. You need that wrist for tremolo.
5. If you can train yourself to pick hard enough for volume while picking precisely enough to not go any farther below the strings than necessary, you will be able to pick faster. If you are getting pick click on the Florida peninsula of your fretboard, you could train yourself to be more precise and so faster.
6. There's a reason why we speaking of picking a mandolin rather than flailing a mandolin.
7. This all works better with a small hard pick. I recommend the Dunlop Jazz 205 (not the 206, which is bigger and sounds different) over all others, including real tortoise. Best sound by far.

[Paul Kotapish]

For years I had no fingerrest/pickguard because I prefer that way that looks. On a few occasions when I played other mandos that did have rests, I realized that it was handy for me and in recent years I've come to prefer using an abbreviated fingerrest.

I don't plant my pinky in one spot, but I do trail it along the fingerrest as a point of reference.

If I were a young man I might relearn my right-hand technique, but at this point I'm just happy to get to play the dang thing--funky technique and all.

[billkilpatrick]

no flailer or whacker i ...

my mid-missouri doesn't have one (yea!) and just this afternoon, i unscrewed (unshackled) the elevated pickguard on my epiphone "a" style and improved its tone immensely!

like paul, if i were younger, i'd probably aim for the elusive "free floating right hand" posture - mentioned in another thread - but as it is, i'm happy just to get through the piece.

[Mr. Loar]

I think I'll put mine back on tonight. Back to good.

[Doug Edwards]

I like using the fingerest as a reference point. It seems I'm always getting a new one every few months.

Here's the latest, Curly Maple with tortoise binding.

[jasona]

Here is my Ratcliff with Edwards fingerrest installed. Thanks Doug!

[johnM]

I had doug edwards make me an abrieviated model for the weber. It was nice and he explained how to install it on the mandolin. I thought it was going to be comfortable but found my pinky would hit it when I did tremolo. I tried several different times but no go, so I ripped it off.

I probably would like a full size gibson type but I'm not drilling a hole in the side of this instrument.
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jm

[TNFrank]

I played my new Epi MM-30 for the last couple days WITH the pickguard on and just took it off a bit ago to give it a try. I like it better off. Much cleaner look, NO chance of having it rattle since it's not there and I don't see how I'd ever hit the E string side of the mando with the pick the angle isn't right, at least in the way I play. I'm going to keep it off. Of course, if you'll notice the link to my web page with my car I even "de-badged" it, LOL. I just think the less "junk" you have on something the better it looks.