F-holes of interest

[billhay4]

There was a fiddle maker at Wintergrass this past weekend who had a Hardanger fiddle along with his (innovative) "normal" fiddles.
A fascinating instrument, especially the f-holes. They are carved in such a way that the upper and lower layers of wood actually overlap. In other words, the arch is steep enough to allow the blank to be split at the f-hole.
This is hard to explain, but I've attached a picture that I hope shows how Lynn does this. It's from his site.
The top and bottom of those f-holes don't just appear to overlap, they DO overlap.
Bill

[Jim Rowland]

One of the Irving Sloane books has building instructions for the Hardanger fiddles. Plenty of ilustrations also.
Jim

[Mike Buesseler]

Is there a point to doing it this way, beside being WAY cool?!? I'd guess you'd need to start with a thicker piece of spruce to carve it that way...

[amowry]

I've seen Lyn at the Marylhurst show outside Portland the past few years. Ho does equisite work (Did you see the fractional sized fiddles?). As I recall Sloane's book tells how to open up the f-holes by bending them after the top is carved, but I think Lyn's method is more authentic.

[sunburst]

I'd guess you'd need to start with a thicker piece of spruce to carve it that way...
Maybe not. See how abruptly the top arches up from the edge, and see the plateau across the middle? That extra "steepness" of the arch near the edge would probably allow enough wood for the overlapping F-holes.

[Graham McDonald]

It's harder to think about than it is to do. I have made a couple of these sort of beasts with varying degrees of success and it is mostly a matter of getting the arching of the centre section right and then cutting the f-slots more or less horizontally after drilling the holes at either end. Arching height is much the same as a normal fiddle.

There was a pic of a hardanger mandolin which was very groovy posted on the Cafe a couple of years back. Mr Garber, surely you archived a copy?

cheers

[PseudoCelt]

I'm not Mr Garber, but here's a picture of that Hardanger mandolin:

[Chris Travers]

Cool! Unique but how do they project sound? Up and down? How would they project outwards?

crazylotrfan

[PseudoCelt]

Here's a thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=28953;hl=hardanger+and+ mandolin) about that Hardanger mandolin. There are some extra photos and some comments by the builder.

There's a short chapter on Hardanger fiddles in Juliet Barker's violin-making book, with advice on carving the top and cutting the holes and template drawings of an f-hole, bridge and tailpiece.

Patrick

[james condino]

I've played several of Fred Carlson's guitars with huge tracts of sympathetic strings that are very similar to hardanger instruments. They sound hauntingly intoxicating in open tunings, but can be a challenge to keep in tune. Alex Degrassi tours with one regularly. All of those tuning machines on one end can have some balance issues also. Anyone that makes it up to the Guild of American Luthier's show this June in Tacoma should be able to checkout a few of Fred's instruments there.

I've seen that type of soundhole arrangement on a few old basses from the 1800s that came about from two centuries of stress warping the plates out of shape.

That mandolin looks great, but I don't ever want to try to build one.... eight strings are complicated enough!

j.
www.condino.com

[Arnt]

Up here Hardanger fiddles (and fiddlers) are treated much like I get the feeling you guys treat banjos (and banjo players); it's a love / hate thing... That 'hauntingly intoxicating' sound of the Hardanger fiddles is really an acquired taste, even for us who grow up listening to it on the radio (for hours on end)! You will see many different tunings used with these instruments, some of them are named after trolls and other characters from our folklore; however the most common tuning is 'out of tune'. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sunburst]

As a banjo player myself, I bet it's the same for Hardanger fiddlers; "It's 90% of them that give the rest of us a bad name".

[billhay4]

According to Lynn, the arching is steeper than a violin. These holes are, indeed, carved into the arch. One level of the f-hole is higher on the arch than the other. However, it's the overlapping of the levels that fascinated me.
Lynn claimed not to play (I didn't fully believe him) so I didn't get to hear his, but I have listened to sound clips. An interesting, haunting sound.
I didn't even get into the details of how the drone strings are done. Another complex topic, I am sure.
It's great what luthiers can do with wood and creativity.
Bill