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bangorreg
Feb-22-2008, 2:15am
Hi.
#I am trying to get information on my father.I can remember after the war he worked with Troys and His Mandolin's My mother and I went to see him playing at Lyons Corner House in London just after the war I would have been about 10.He was with "Troys" between 1934 and 1948 App;with a break during WW2.
#He then joined the BBC Northern Ireland Light Orchestra,and played the Double Bass under David Curry in 1948 till he retired around 1965.
#I can remember his Mandolin, it was Maravigna Vincenzo made about 1930? : His Double Bass was a Nandor Bruckner- Hurgarian, he said it was made around 1895?.
#This info may prompt some bodys memory?
He passed away in 1982.( I have not seen his Bass or Mandolin since 1955.
# Reg.

Dave Hanson
Feb-22-2008, 2:51am
Firstly explain ' Troys ' ? I'm English and it's meaningless to me, so our US friends may well not know either.

Dave H

bangorreg
Feb-22-2008, 3:31am
Hi Dave.
Thank you for your reply.
The name "troys" may have been Spanish? the name of the group was "TROYS and his Mandolin's" I think there were 5 in the group,I also remember the dress of the group had a spanish bull fighter look.
(My fathers name was Charles Reginald Brewer).
If you need any other info please let me know.
Reg.

Ivan Kelsall
Feb-22-2008, 3:49am
The correct name for the band was 'Troise & his Mandoliers'.Of course the first name would sound like Troys. I just did a search & found a CD of his music recorded in the 1930's titled ''Play to me Gypsy'' available from Sidestreet Distributing.
I remember the band by name very well & i'm sure i heard them on the radio back in the late '50's. Such bands were still playing,but were gradually being replaced by the more popular transatlantic artistes,who in turn gave rise to a whole crop of British
'sound-alikes',
Saska

Martin Jonas
Feb-22-2008, 8:02am
Troise & his Mandoliers was a popular mandolin ensemble in the UK in the 1930s/1940s, similar in style and repertoire to Dave Apollon. #I play in a mandolin ensemble (the Wirral Mandoliers) and some of our older members, who have been playing in mandolin orchestras since the 1940s, talk about Troise rather a lot and have seen him in concert. #Indeed, I believe our name is taken from the name of his group. #I know there's a CD of his music out, but I've never heard it, so I can't say whether our arrangements are similar to his.

Martin

brunello97
Feb-22-2008, 9:29am
Amazing. Troise's cds are still available, and actually up the road here at Elderly's

http://www.elderly.com/recordings/items/ASV5492.htm

as well as at UK based sites.

Mick

brunello97
Feb-22-2008, 9:39am
Here is the only Maravigna mandolin I have in my files, and unfortunately it is not the best of images. Maybe Jim or someone else has a better example.

Mick

bangorreg
Feb-24-2008, 1:18am
Hi. Dave/Saska/Martin & Mick.
It's amazing the information you have given me,you know I have been looking this kind of info since the late 1980's,even the BBC retired staff forum's could not help.I came across the "Mandolin Cafe" by chance a few days ago.
Now you have given me the correct spelling of "Troise"my memory is working a bit better. Thinking back I believe my Father was with Troise before ww2, I can remember when he got his callup papers for the RAF, and my Mother told me that one of his friend's in the Group was also joining the RAF.(the name was something like "Emyl Charle"?? or something like that.
My mother told me that he use to go on river boats with the band!!(not quite sure what she what she was reffing to.) If any of this makes sense to you ,please advise me, as I am trying to find someone that knew him.
Reg.

Ivan Kelsall
Feb-24-2008, 2:45am
Hi Reg - I'm glad you found this site at last. Stick with it,i'm sure that you have experiences & information to share.That's what makes this such a wonderful place to visit. Judging by your user name are you in Bangor,N.Wales ?,
Saska

lmartnla
Feb-24-2008, 2:52am
http://www.jabw.demon.co.uk/bdb2.htm

This website lists a film featuring Troise and group.

delsbrother
Feb-24-2008, 5:00am
Troise and his Banjoliers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Djk_bHZc18)

Martin Jonas
Feb-24-2008, 6:12am
Great clip! I would guess that these were simply the same musicians that were in the Mandoliers issued with banjos to benefit from a vogue for banjo music. The style of playing, with all that tremolo, sounds very mando orchestra like to me. I can't get a good look at the headstocks, but judging from neck length, I think there are at least two mandolin banjos in there. I suspect that arrangement would have sounded better with mandolins anyway -- those banjos make an ungodly racket.

Martin
PS: If these were simply his mandoliers issued with banjos, I guess there's a fair chance that Reg's father is in that clip!

Martin Jonas
Feb-24-2008, 6:18am
There's some more info in the British Big Bands database here (http://nfo.net/brit/bt.html) and here (http://www.nfo.net/cal/tt3.html#Troise):


[ Troise and his Mandoliers ]
For more information, please see the Pasqual Troise, entry on our Composers Database. Band was seen in two 1936 pictures: 'Pathetone Parade of 1936' and 'Sunshine Ahead'.


Pasqual Troise
b. 1895, Naples, Italy, d. 1957
In the 1920s, Pasqual Troise emigrated from Italy, and settled in Great Britain, where he spent most of his adult life. Initially, he found work with Sidney Firman's BBC Radio Dance Band. During the 1930s and '40s, known only as "Troise", he led the group 'Troise and His Mandoliers', and (for the radio program "Music While You Work" - with the same musicians) as 'Troise and His Banjoliers'. 'Troise and His Mandoliers' appeared in the film 'Pathetone Parade of 1936' (along with the 'Charlie Kunz Orch.), and, 'Troise and his Mandoliers" also appeared in the 1937 film 'Sunshine Ahead' (along with the 'Jack Payne's Band', 'The Harmonica Band', and 'The Two Leslies'). His augmented (guitars, strings, piano, accordion.) group was frequently heard on radio as 'Troise and His Serenaders'. One of the singers who appeared with the band was 'Don Carlos'. Among his best known compositions are "Napolitara" (a tarantella), "Jolly Archers", "Festive Romance", and "Here They Come".

Note that this last entry specifically says that the Banjoliers were the same musicians as the Mandoliers, so Reg has a fair chance of spotting his father in the Youtube clip posted by delsbrother.

Martin

Django Fret
Feb-24-2008, 7:34am
Here are some photos of this band with mandolins:

Toise & His Mandoliers (http://thecoinshop.maltaexpo.com/filebank/imagebank/TROISE%20MAIN.JPG)


The Inimitable Ensemble (http://img.tesco.com/pi/entertainment/CD/LF/298436_CD_L_F.jpg) #(This CD has recordings from 1934-1940, so it probably is too early for the time your Dad was with them, but does show the banjos in it.)

Here is another one from the David Curry and the Irish Rhythms Orchestra (http://thecoinshop.maltaexpo.com/filebank/imagebank/D.CURRY%20MAIN.JPG) and you might want to compare the double bass player to one of the mandolin players in the first link to see if there is a resemblance to your Dad. #Good luck in your search!

Celtic Saguaro
Feb-24-2008, 10:14am
Martin, it looks like those are single-strung tango banjos rather than double-strung mandolin banjos.

Rick Jones
Feb-24-2008, 10:25am
Apologies for the off-topic post - but if this thread doesn't prove the amazing power and wonder of the internet, nothing does. This is fabulous!

Scott Tichenor
Feb-24-2008, 11:18am
Hi. Dave/Saska/Martin & Mick.
It's amazing the information you have given me,you know I have been looking this kind of info since the late 1980's,even the BBC retired staff forum's could not help.I came across the "Mandolin Cafe" by chance a few days ago.
Now you have given me the correct spelling of "Troise"my memory is working a bit better. Thinking back I believe my Father was with Troise before ww2, I can remember when he got his callup papers for the RAF, and my Mother told me that one of his friend's in the Group was also joining the RAF.(the name was something like "Emyl Charle"?? or something like that.
My mother told me that he use to go on river boats with the band!!(not quite sure what she what she was reffing to.) If any of this makes sense to you ,please advise me, as I am trying to find someone that knew him.
Reg.
Emyl Charle referred to in your post appears to be accordion player Emile Charlier who is listed as playing with this group, possibly still living. See http://www.hallowquest.com/echarlier.htm

Also, I don't think anyone will mind here, but I'm going to correct the spelling of the band name in the topic title as this would assist anyone searching the web for similar information. Google does pick up many of the pages within this forum.

JimRichter
Feb-24-2008, 6:44pm
Amazing

bangorreg
Feb-25-2008, 4:03am
Hi Scott & all those that have provided all this information.
It's amazing the wealth of Knowledge you and your members have provided, this is the advantage of having a wonderful forum that specialise's.
I thank you for your latest information which will take a while to go through.
Scott, your info on Emile Charlier (Emyl Charle as I spelt his name) could apparently be one and the same. I remember his name because we had 2 cats ,one was Emile and the other Charlie(Charlier)I think they where called after my fathers friend.
During WW2 he was in the RAF medical core and also in the RAF band, I remember when he came home on leave he always looked after his finger nails. He loved making stage props out of cardboard boxes, and they where down to the last detail.
I shall be going through all your replys in detail tomorrow .
Saska, In answer to your question about Bangor no it's Bangor Co Down, spent most of my teenage years there, but did spend 1 year in Llandudno N.Wales around 1943,can remember the tram that went to Bangor and Conway.
Regards Reg.

Ivan Kelsall
Feb-26-2008, 5:00am
Hi Reg - Looks like things are turning up piece by piece. There's always someone out there that has info.on almost EVERYTHING.
I see that you're over in Ireland.My wife's ancestry is all Irish on both parent's sides of her family.Her sister currently lives in Inishowen,County Donegal.
I must have traced a few of you footsteps in July last year,going from Conwy to both Bangor & Llandudno while i was at the North Wales Bluegrass Festival,
Warmest regards - Saska

Ivan Kelsall
Feb-26-2008, 5:20am
Right Reg,here we go - Emile Charlier is currently in a nursing home in Torquay,Devon.
If you haven't checked your e-mails do so,because i've sent you the phone number of his son,Marcel,who is also down in Torquay.Possibly better to work through Marcel,as his dad's pretty hard of hearing,but apparently he's still very mentally agile,
Saska

bangorreg
Mar-03-2008, 2:47am
Hi All.
Good news, The image Django Fret posted of Troise+ Mandoliers The bass Mandol player is identical to the photo of my father taken in 1939. See image.
I will have to come back to-morrow as power is going off in 10min
Reg.

Django Fret
Mar-03-2008, 8:07am
Reg, thanks for posting an update and any luck finding a mandolin player in those other pictures or videos?

I hope that you are able to make personal or telephone contact with Emile Charlier so please keep us posted as things develop. Pretty amazing story!

bangorreg
Mar-04-2008, 4:05am
Hi All
# Follow up on the information you all have given. #I telephoned Emile Charlier's son (Marcel) over the weekend, He took note of the information I had on my Father and will see his father next weekend. Marcel dose not remember the period Emile was with troise as he was born in the late 1940's.
# Emile Charlier is well, but he find's it hard to hear.So I shall have to wait till I get a reply. I would like to at this point thank Saska for all the help he gave in finding a contact telephone number for Emile.
# #The #clip posted by ISO TEKON#of Troise was taken around 1932, looking at the Bass Mandol player he dose not seem to be my father, but then again the clip was taken some 9 years earlyer and I cannot find a photo of him for 1930/2
#Thank you for the clip and I shall keep it in mind.

# David Currie and the BBC Northern Ireland Orchestra The double Bass player in the photo is not my Father,but I do remember seeing him at the BBC radio studio in Belfast. Think he was with the Irish Rhythms which also was under David Curry ( I use to go to the studio and help my father carry his Bass through the streets of Belfast late at night.) I always felt a bit nerveless as I thought it looked like a dead body.
#Have some more info but have not got all the facts yet.
# # # Regards # Reg.

Martin Jonas
Jun-17-2011, 6:07pm
I'm reviving this thread in order to keep all relevant information in one thread. Rather unexpectedly, I have just come into possession (on loan, I hasten to add) of a large collection of hand-written sheet music, consisting of five boxes with the original manuscript scores and individual parts for about one hundred arrangements by Troise & his Mandoliers. These were auctioned sometime after Troise's death in 1957 and bought by the (then) leader of a Liverpool mandolin orchestra. He in turn eventually founded our little mandolin ensemble and when he died about three years ago, he left these boxes to us. So far, they have not been touched, but I have offered to take temporary custody and to see if there is anything that we could usefully try out with the ensemble. So, I took the boxes home after rehearsal yesterday and have had a very cursory preliminary glance at them. It's fascinating stuff: each piece has an envelope of its own which contains all the parts and the conductor's score, all hand-written by Pasquale Troise. Several of them have a broadcast date written on them, presumably the date the pieces were played on the BBC -- the broadcast dates I have spotted so far are all in the late 1930s. Fascinatingly, many envelopes also have Troise's source material in them, in the form of published piano/vocal setting of the pieces, which Troise then expanded for his particular line-up. These are nothing if not elaborate. A typical arrangement may consist of individual parts for three mandolin sections (solo, 1st, 2nd), tenor mandola, mandocello, guitar, mandobass, drums/timpani, piano, two accordion parts and vocals. Many sheets have Troise's stamp or annotations on them and some have personal dedications to Troise. All fascinating stuff.

I'm really not sure what to do with this -- the arrangements are far too elaborate (and frankly mostly too technically demanding) to be viable for our much smaller group -- but in the meantime, if anybody has a sufficiently large mandolin orchestra or swing band and fancies having a go at any of Troise's arrangements, I should be able to send scans to interested parties although it would take me a very considerable time to scan them all. They're not really in a format that lends itself to copying or scanning, so this would be a long hard slog. Once I have had a preliminary look through everything, I'll post a list of the pieces I have in this thread.

In the meantime, I have also encountered five Pathe newsreels of Troise's band, all from 1932/33, at the Pathe Archive website. The first three clips are with the Mandoliers instrumentation, the others with the banjoliers:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=27979
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=9233
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77253
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=28157
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=28093

So far, I have not encountered the arrangements for any of these, but I have not yet got very far in looking through things.

Martin

Charles E.
Jun-17-2011, 7:18pm
Martin, thanks for posting ( and reviving this thread ), very cool. I love the bass mandolin and tenor giutar!

MandoSquirrel
Jun-17-2011, 7:22pm
Martin, thanks for the link; I love "Pkay To Me Gypsy", & it's nice to have access to video of the ensemble.

Ivan Kelsall
Jun-18-2011, 12:58am
Hi Martin - Many thanks for keeping us abreast of what you've found. It sounds quite fascinating !.To be able to see the original scores for so much music must be exciting in itself - it's solid, visual, musical history,right in front of you.
Many years ago,i visited the Beethoven Haus,in Bonn,Germany. To actually see the original manuscripts,written by my favourite composer of that age,was an incredibly moving experience,
Ivan:disbelief:

Martin Jonas
Jun-20-2011, 5:32pm
Thanks, Ivan, Charles and Mandosquirrel. I've moved the discussion of the Troise manuscript scores over to the classical forum (Link (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?74232-Troise-amp-His-Mandoliers-original-manuscript-scores)), where I've posted the list of pieces in two of the boxes (haven't looked through the others yet) and have posted a full scan of one of the pieces.

Martin

brunello97
May-26-2014, 7:58pm
Here's a 1936 Calace (http://www.ebay.it/itm/OLD-CONCERT-MANDOLIN-RAFFAELE-CALACE-ET-FIGLIO-ITALY-/261489738213?pt=FR_YO_OInstrumentsMusique_Cordes&hash=item3ce200c1e5&_uhb=1) on ebay.it with the curious signature "Good Luck, Troise" or what I think reads like that. (Always a mystery with my eyes.) If so, might this be the same Pasqual Troise?

Mick

Paul Kotapish
May-27-2014, 12:47pm
Here's a pretty cool arrangement of "In a Persian Market" from the lads:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQjFa7cUx_g

Martin Jonas
May-27-2014, 2:54pm
Here's a 1936 Calace (http://www.ebay.it/itm/OLD-CONCERT-MANDOLIN-RAFFAELE-CALACE-ET-FIGLIO-ITALY-/261489738213?pt=FR_YO_OInstrumentsMusique_Cordes&hash=item3ce200c1e5&_uhb=1) on ebay.it with the curious signature "Good Luck, Troise" or what I think reads like that. (Always a mystery with my eyes.) If so, might this be the same Pasqual Troise?

Mick

Nice find. I would have thought this is the 1930s equivalent of a kid taking his guitar to a Clapton concert to be autographed -- in other words, most likely not an instrument owned by or dedicated to Troise, but rather a fan's mandolin signed by Troise as a memento. He was a BIG star in the UK in the 1930s and 40s.

Paul: thanks for the "Persian Market" link. We have that piece (I think in Troise's arrangement, although it was retyped a few years ago to aid readability) in our repertoire folder but we haven't played it in living memory. Maybe we should try it at one of our forthcoming rehearsals.

Speaking of Troise, I thought I had all our boxes of his arrangements when I posted in 2011, but our Band Secretary has recently handed me another three boxes of mixed (very mixed) old sheet music, which contain another few dozen Troise pieces. Haven't catalogued them yet, but I think it may well include the original manuscript to his "Persian Market" arrangement.

Martin

brunello97
Mar-24-2015, 10:04am
More on Troise.

This DeMeglio (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MANDOLIN-WITH-HISTORY-PAPERS-DE-MEGLIO-ITALIAN-1904-/381203020660?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160) up for bid on the ebay apparently was owned by a Mr. B. W. Dykes who was a member of the Mandoliers.

The note looks to be in error, referring to the DeMeglio as a "Style 7". Most likely a Style 1 which was written with a Euro-flourish on the upstroke.

An interesting bit of mando history.

Mick

Tavy
Jan-28-2016, 1:40pm
Wasn't sure where to post this, but I guess I might as well follow on from Mick's posting... the mandolin that was for sale on and off for most of last year on eBay eventually ended up in the port of last result: me!

As Mick says, it's almost certainly a model 1 (I don't think DeMeglio even made a model 7?), and while someone has clearly played the living daylights out of it, it needed only minor repairs (fix a loose brace, replace lots of side banding, and set up with a new compensated bridge). It must have been a much loved instrument as at some point it's acquired a new tailpiece, and new fretboard. Possibly also had a neck reset and headstock repair in the past too.... quite the bionic mandolin:

143154143155143156

The paperwork is interesting:

143157143158

Note how it was listed in the "bargain" category, even though 8 in 1943 was a considerable sum of money - seems to equate to about 350 in today's money, but during wartime, that would have been well beyond the means of most people.

I wonder does anyone have a list of the members of Troise's troop?

Ivan Kelsall
Jan-29-2016, 5:22am
I doubt if there's any 'definitive' listing of the personel,but here's an article giving the names of a few :- http://www.turnipnet.com/mom/troise.htm,
Ivan

Tavy
Jan-29-2016, 11:28am
I doubt if there's any 'definitive' listing of the personel,but here's an article giving the names of a few :- http://www.turnipnet.com/mom/troise.htm,
Ivan

Thanks Ivan, as this one was sold in '43 it actually pre-dates most of the BBC performances - must be more from the music hall era?

A forgotten time for sure...

Martin Jonas
Jan-29-2016, 7:05pm
Thanks Ivan, as this one was sold in '43 it actually pre-dates most of the BBC performances - must be more from the music hall era?

A forgotten time for sure...

While "Music While You Work" started only in 1940, the Mandoliers definitely recorded multiple radio sessions for the BBC during the 1930s -- many of the original Troise manuscript arrangements in my possession list the broadcast date on the envelope, with most being between 1935 and 1939.

Martin

andrew1281
Aug-01-2016, 7:05am
Hello brunello97
I'm new to the forum and I only found it due to trying to find information about my grandfather.
The quote below turned up on one of the discussion threads on the Mandolin Cafe forum which is very exciting as I believe the Mr B.W.Dykes that you refer to is may well be my grandfather.
I don't have much information about him but the fact that he appeared to be the one-time owner of this mandolin does tie in with stuff I know about him being a musician of about this period and also approximately where he lived (the Ilford area I think).

What happened to this mandolin? Do you still have it? I don't suppose you might be able to direct me to any list of musicians that formed Troise and His Mandoliers at about the time that my apparent grandfather owned this mandolin?

Any information you might have would be so gratefully received
Many thanks
Andrew


More on Troise.

This DeMeglio (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MANDOLIN-WITH-HISTORY-PAPERS-DE-MEGLIO-ITALIAN-1904-/381203020660?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:US:3160) up for bid on the ebay apparently was owned by a Mr. B. W. Dykes who was a member of the Mandoliers.

The note looks to be in error, referring to the DeMeglio as a "Style 7". Most likely a Style 1 which was written with a Euro-flourish on the upstroke.

An interesting bit of mando history.

Mick

Tavy
Aug-01-2016, 7:23am
What happened to this mandolin? Do you still have it?

I owned and restored it for a short time - now long since sold I'm afraid - and I have no information other that what I posted above... I was sort of hoping a family member (hint hint!) would surface and help us out ;)

bangorreg
Jul-27-2017, 12:05am
Hi Mike , Its been a long time since I last contacted this forum .
My father joined Troise around 1931/2 he played the bassmando , but had also be able to play the mandolin, I can confirm that Mr Dykes was a member of the Manodliers according to conversations I had with my father around 1948-1954.
Reg

Paulacallum
Aug-18-2018, 7:29am
I have just discovered my great grandad was in Troise and his mandoliers. His name was Charles Harlin and my dad recognised him in one of the photos. My dad also just pulled out the very same mandolin and banjo! Can anyone tell me if the name Charles/Charlie Harlin has popped up anywhere else? I'd love to find out more.
Paula

Paulacallum
Aug-18-2018, 7:32am
My great grandad was also in Troise and his mandoliers. His name was Charles/Charlie Harlin.