Sierra hull - then and now

[Mark Walker]

Stumbled on these on YouTube.

Sierra THEN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDZ9PN5K06Q&feature=related)

and more RECENTLY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNpVvDXktQY)

Gives you continued hope for the future generations, doesn't it? #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jim_n_virginia]

She's good but like a lot of the young kids now that were inspired my Thile and the like they play all fireworks and it turns into a sort of finger acrobatics.

I much prefer someone like Grisnman or Staatman who can slow it down and still make the mandolin talk.

But she sure is a sight more cuter than Grisman though! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bradeinhorn]

i think she can slow it down just fine. i don't think that kind of generalization is really appropriate here. i think her mando and guitar playing is incredibly tasteful and impressive. excellent phrasing and interpretation.

see here for something slower:

My Webpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoN76JOVV4&feature=related)

[Tim Peter]

I saw her on the Great High Mountain tour. Absolutely phenomenal. She was a nice kid to meet in person with an "aw gee shucks" type of attitude. From the looks of it she has kept a pretty low profile and is living life like a normal teenager. She is only 17 or 18 years old. Got to give her parents a lot credit for letting her be a kid. She's going to make some awesome music in the future, but for right now I betcha her folks are making sure that she is more worried about her getting good grades!

[bradeinhorn]

she just finished her first album with rounder actually, produced by alison krauss i think. maybe more like 15 or 16!

[jim_n_virginia]

i think she can slow it down just fine. i don't think that kind of generalization is really appropriate here. #i think her mando and guitar playing is incredibly tasteful and impressive. excellent phrasing and interpretation.

see here for something slower:

My Webpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoN76JOVV4&feature=related)
OH I'm sorry I didn't know you were the person who decided whats appropriate on here, I appologize.

And if you want to to worship Seirra Hull go ahead ... next time bring your Pom-Pom's #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And by the way "just slowing it down" wasn't what I was talking about. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[AlanN]

I agree with Brad. She is a major talent. To shrug her off as a Thile clone is not fair. Influenced by Thile, Rice, etc? Surely. Nothing wrong with that. I watched a vid of her with some others playing an Alan Bibey number. She paid homage to the man, and did her own thing, at the same time.

You, of course, can dig her music or not. Just like some of the acts listed on this message board, although very energetically lauded by many, are not my cup of tea.

[mandopete]

Yeah, I dug those videos too! I like hearing her on the guitar more than the mandolin. She is one talented picker.

[bradeinhorn]

i think she can slow it down just fine. i don't think that kind of generalization is really appropriate here. #i think her mando and guitar playing is incredibly tasteful and impressive. excellent phrasing and interpretation.

see here for something slower:

My Webpage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXoN76JOVV4&feature=related)
OH I'm sorry I didn't know you were the person who decided whats appropriate on here, I appologize.

And if you want to to worship Seirra Hull go ahead ... next time bring your Pom-Pom's #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And by the way "just slowing it down" wasn't what I was talking about. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
jim,

as to appropriateness - i just think it's inappropriate and wrong to write off or make belittling statements about people, especially young people, with such incredible talent and ambition. especially when they are sweeping statements based off a couple youtube clips.

anyway, agree to disagree i guess.

[Mattg]

Grisman can rip and does so on a regular basis. In these vids, Sierra is playing a guitar. Maybe she's a Tony Rice clone. but compare a teenager to artists that have decades more experience? What's the point?

In any case, I was impressed by these vids. They show an increadible dedication by Sierra to learn how to play with such speed, precision and, especially for a teenager, artistry. I don't understand critizing a kid who could otherwise be sitting on a couch, pounding sodas and playing video games. Just as long as she's cute though. That's ok.

I for one cannot wait to see her career develop.

[sgarrity]

I don't think Jim's comments were belittling in anyway. Just an opinion on her playing style. And if Sierra plans on making a living in music, she might as well get used to them. Everybody's got one and most people will give it to you whether you ask for it or not. Performing is not for the thin skinned.

As for her ability, she certainly seems to be very technically proficient and fast. Just like a lot of the younger generation of players. Contest playing and Thile have no doubt influenced a lot of folks. I mean, when was the last time a more traditional/Monroe-style picker won a mandolin contest?? There is more to music than eigth notes....

PS - I'd love ot hear her new cd and will probably buy it. I'm all for people furthering our little instrument no matter what style they play.

[jim_n_virginia]

Never said she wasn't talented. She is. This is a discussion board and I just said I am not impressed with finger acrobatics.

I think the problem is that I am just an old fuddy duddy and I'm getting tired of hearing about Seirra, Josh Pinkham, Thile etc.

And so I appologize if I have over stepped the line!

[Steve Davis]

I think Sierra Hull is fantastic. As far as being influenced by Chris Thile, I don't have a problem with that. For example, listen to Highway 111. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jh3eoGf3hY&NR=1)

[Mark Walker]

If you dig around on the links off YouTube, there are a few other gigs she did with AKUS. #She does a pretty decent 'Adam Steffey-esque' version of his mandolin picking and style on 'Every Time You Say Goodbye' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GU5hWdaQfY&feature=related)

That being said, she's obviously been influenced by some great artists - certainly Adam Steffey and Tony Rice, and likely others including Thile, Bibey, et. al. #She's young, and in those earlier videos, she pretty much duplicates their licks. #Give her time; in the guitar video she's obviously inserting some of her own 'interpretation' and 'feel.' #She'll evolve; we all do. #

I have no qualms with Jim_N_Virginia's observations; to each his (or her) own! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sort of makes me want to put my instruments in the closet though; she's got more talent in her little finger than I have in my entire body! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[bradeinhorn]

i hope to one day live in a world where the presence of technical proficiency on the mandolin at a young age and playing with emotion are not mutually exclusive.

(this is a joke).

but really though- who's to say what style of player should win a mandolin contest? In my opinion, ideally it's not a Monroe-stylist or Thile-stylist or any other-stylist. In any event, contests are kind of a silly way to judge music. I think they are more about self-promotion than anything.

[Mattg]

I'm getting tired of hearing about Seirra, Josh Pinkham, Thile etc.

Then plug your ears man.

[Ken Sager]

Yes, she's getting better and better. Regardless of who she MIGHT sound like, she's developed into an incredibly talented musician and the sky is the limit with a talent like hers. I wish her all the best, as I do anybody else who works hard at what they do. It's obvious she's worked very hard and she still makes it look like fun.

Love to all,
Ken

[Jonathan James]

here is a great video of her ripping it up on Salt Creek. Say what you want, she's pretty amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evo6fb9sc7U&feature=related

[Daniel Wheeler]

contests at least the ones i've been in have been incredibly helpful in developing as a musician. You compete against some of the best musicians on the intrument and everyone is so nice..there is so much camraderie among the contestants and the established players are more than happy to answer any questions and show you stuff.

But that is for another thread.

[AlanN]

I hear what sgarrity is saying, I have said the same, when was the last time a Monroe picker won?

But, afraid time has moved on. Take a sports analogy: slam dunk contests now, versus the Bob Cousy perimeter set shot. Yep, it's round ball, but man has it changed.

Speaking of which, I'm running concessions at Dean Dome tomorrow night for the Duke-UNC game. Any MandoCafe-r comes by, be they a Compton guy or a Thile guy, you get a free hot dog http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[pjlama]

She's very talented and we're going to get to watch what she does with all that, I bet it'll be spectacular.

[Keith Erickson]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #Sorry to chuckle to myself but this just reminds me of those guys that I hung around in high school, who use to rip Eddie Van Halen for playing too fast blah, blah, blah.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. #She's got the talent. #And if she could hit those notes fast and clean, then good for her.

....and no I don't think she sounds like Thile. #Thile sounds like Thile and Sierra Hull sounds like Sierra Hull.

If this keeps up, I might have to buy one of her CD's. #Proving yet again there is no such thing as bad publicity brought to you by some of the friendly folks here at the Mandolin Café #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Daniel Wheeler]

Most Of the contestants at a place like winfield where the nationals are held are young people inspired by thile to pick it up. Look at the last years winners..I dont think any of them were over 18.

[Alex Orr]

I like hearing her on the guitar more than the mandolin. #She is one talented picker.
I've been thinking the same thing. #I think she's great on both instruments, but for my money she's a more interesting flatpicker than mando player.

In any case, it's great to see young kids with such talent keeping the bluegrass flame burning.

[lovethemf5s]

If I like a musician's music I reward them by buying their product. This may not clear the appropriateness police but Thile has never made a dime off of me and Grisman hasn't either in a long time. If Hull is headed in that direction, I'll keep my money in my pocket.

[Tim Peter]

Most Of the contestants at a place like winfield where the nationals are held are young people inspired by thile to pick it up. Look at the last years winners..I dont think any of them were over 18.
That's fantastic! I should get to one of these big contests and see all of the players out there. It always thrills me to hear a young talent like Sierra Hull. Future is bright for mandolin music.

[Alex Orr]

Contest playing and Thile have no doubt influenced a lot of folks. #I mean, when was the last time a more traditional/Monroe-style picker won a mandolin contest?? #There is more to music than eigth notes....
I agree with the basic idea of what you're saying - I'm not much of a fan of Thile or overly "note-y" playing. To me, it's more of a novelty than anytrhing else.

That being said, that's really what contest picking is about, isn't it? Displaying the fullest command of your playing and your instrument while pushing the physical and "novel" envelope farther than the rest of the competitors? By it's very nature, doesn't that sort of guideline demand ostentatious playing? Lots of times, the best break for a particular song is just not flashy enough for contest play, whereas (to my ears) a contest-level break in a tune just sounds gawdy and tacky. And, of course, in the right tune and setting, something ridiculously flashy can also sound just right. Like a lot of aesthetics, it comes down to form and function.

[Daniel Wheeler]

Most Of the contestants at a place like winfield where the nationals are held are young people inspired by thile to pick it up. Look at the last years winners..I dont think any of them were over 18.
That's fantastic! #I should get to one of these big contests and see all of the players out there. #It always thrills me to hear a young talent like Sierra Hull. #Future is bright for mandolin music.
ya man they are everywhere http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jim_n_virginia]

Hey why don't you fellers start a little Sierra Hull Fan club! Maybe she'll send you guys one of her picks and you can raffle it off! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm outta here! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Daniel Wheeler]

Hey why don't you fellers start a little Sierra Hull Fan club! Maybe she'll send you guys one of her picks and you can raffle it off! # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm outta here! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
haha

[AlanN]

uh, methinks he was referring to the other guy.

[Dave Schimming]

"Ripping it" is getting her attention which she might not have gotten otherwise. I am looking forward to her new album and development as a musician.

[Chris Biorkman]

Glassweb, I think Mandolirius was referring to Jim's final post where he made the comment about raffling off the pick, not yours.

I hate how threads like this always get ugly. People should be able to express an opposing viewpoint without getting flamed for it.

That said, I think she's a great player and I think her playing is pretty expressive.

[woodwizard]

Phenomenal ... pretty much describes Little miss Hull.
No 2 ways about it. And she will get better.

[Alex Orr]

It's quite often that people with great technical abilities eventually settle down and play from the heart and soul as opposed to the hands and head
Here's another side to this idea:

I think the "playing with heart" critique is almost always a purely subjective thing. #For one thing, how do you know "where" she is playing from? #Are you inside of her head and hearing her tell her heart, "sorry heart, I'm just playing from my head...no emotion today"? #

You see, I've often been guilty of thinking like this myself. #For example, when I hear Thile's stuff, which baiscally sounds to me like elevator music with chops, I've frequently thought of it as soulless flash. #If it doesn't appeal to ME emotionally, it's tempting for me to say the PERFORMER is playing with no heart. #However, as I've played for more and more time myself, I've kind've come to the conclusion that it's unfair to just about any musician to say THEY aren't playing with heart just because their music isn't touching ME. #I'm sure at some point in the future I'll be guilty of casually saying someone is playing with no heart, but I think I've come to believe that with a little thought on the matter, it's darn near impossible to really make an objective case for such a statement. Just a thought http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

FWIW, I'm also puzzled at how mean this thread became. #Someone likes a performer and someone else doesn't, why get mean-spirited or personal about it? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Ted Eschliman]

For crying out loud, boys. Do we really have to dig out the big Moderator Stick on this topic?

How about we keep the personal attacks off the board, or the delete button comes out of its sheath. I'll thank you to use the PM or email icons if you need to go after each other.

[John Rosett]

"Now, when I was a kid, I could REALLY play!" -Jethro Burns

Say what you want to about Ms. Hull, but she's got great right hand technique.

[Daniel Wheeler]

She is 16. I would venture to guess there are people on here that have been playing longer than that. Maybe wait a few years before finding her flaws.

[Chris Biorkman]

I would kill to be that good. That's a lot of hours of practicing and dedication. Maybe just a little bit of talent too. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[lmartnla]

She is spending her young life doing what she does. That is paying her dues. She is not just picking a 'showtune" fast, she is playing it out on every tune. Listen to the nice tone she is getting. She doesn't practice, oh no. I wonder why she does that?

[JHo]

She really does have a nice tone. I remember noticing that at IBMA in 2006 when she was co-hosting a mandolin workshop.

[Mark Walker]

She really does have a nice tone. #I remember noticing that at IBMA in 2006 when she was co-hosting a mandolin workshop.
I'm even more impressed. #Hosting a workshop at the tender age (at that time) of... what? #13, 14 years old?

Can't be too shabby in technique, tone and 'pickability' if you're hosting workshops at IBMA at that age...

Regardless, I started the thread because I was impressed with her picking of both mandolin and guitar, and I still am! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Glassweb]

Say what you want to about Ms. Hull, but she's got great right hand technique.
Absolutely!

[mandopete]

For crying out loud, boys. Do we really have to dig out the big Moderator Stick on this topic?
Aye, aye captain - Shields Up!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Crowder]

I was undecided on Sierra Hull--just not enough evidence I guess--until a recent night here in Chattanooga. She played the first set of the night as the mandolin picker with Lou Wamp and Swing Shift. She played solid, tasteful and sometimes very impressive mandolin.

The second act of the night was the Dappled Grays from Atlanta. They have a very different sound, very refined, and play a lot of their own material and very few bluegrass standards. Their guitar player couldn't make the gig, so they asked Sierra a couple of weeks before if she'd sit in on guitar. According to the story, they sent her a couple of CD's and asked her to play along and find her parts. They warmed up and ran through some things before the show, then hit the stage. You would have thought Sierra had played with them forever. Timing, taste, tone, everything was there, and the parts that were most important to the songs were perfect. I saw her play her booty off, but none of it was flashy in the least.

I can say now that I have a lot of respect for her as a MUSICIAN. Not as a kid musician, not as a shredder, but as a musician. I think a lot of older musicians must be threatened by a young gal with talent. Frankly I noticed the same thing when I used to belong to a golf club full of old men. They liked to sit in the clubhouse and run down Tiger Woods, then go out and shoot 105 from the front tees. Pretty sad really.

[Daniel Wheeler]

Well put crowder

[dmamlep]

Well I saw Sierra not long ago, and not only can she play the mando, but was impressed with the guitar. although I wished she was playing the mando, when her set was over, she went to the artist tent and played guitar with anyone that would play, the only thing that I can see with her, and its not knocking her, because she is a kid, is her singing, I hope she gets better to go with her music talent. its probally because she is young and her voice has not matured yet, then she will be even more awesome. and for all that have knocked her talent, I play in a Bluegrass Band, mandolin, and I wish I was as good as her. like most of you.

[troika]

Finger acrobatics myask. I'll show you FINGERACROBATICS!
fingeracrobatics (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnphOEsoETE)

[Ivan Kelsall]

If i could play 'Cluck Old hen'' the way she did back then with Alison Krauss,i'd be very pleased with myself. She seems to be another young player with a natural talent. That doesn't mean to say that she doesn't work hard at it,but it probably comes more natural to her & others like her than the rest of us. I hope that some time in the future
she fronts a really good band of her own,with musicians of her calibre - that's something worth waiting for,i think she's terrific,
Saska

[AlanN]

Finger acrobatics myask. #I'll show you FINGERACROBATICS!
fingeracrobatics (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnphOEsoETE)
Yeah, but ask that guy to pick up a penny with his right hand http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandopete]

Wow, Sierra Hull sitting in on guitar with the Dappled Grays, that musta been good! I'm a huge fan of those folks. Their regular guitar player is a guy named Casey Cook and he's no slouch, so that's pretty impressive that she was able to pick up the material so easily (or so it seems to us mortals).

[Kbone]

Yes, she's getting better and better. Regardless of who she MIGHT sound like, she's developed into an incredibly talented musician and the sky is the limit with a talent like hers. I wish her all the best, as I do anybody else who works hard at what they do. It's obvious she's worked very hard and she still makes it look like fun.

Love to all,
Ken
Ditto...well said.

[BlueMountain]

I saw her set at the Gettysburg Bluegrass Festival when she was what, fourteen! LEADING a band, playing flawlessly and creatively. Have you ever played a half hour set in front of a thousand people while looking relaxed and not choking? I couldn't do it. Playing that well is one thing. Playing that well in front of people is a lot harder. And she's had her own bluegrass festival for several years. No, she's not my favorite mandolin player, but she's my favorite teenage mandolin player.

[Mark Walker]

No, she's not my favorite mandolin player, but she's my favorite teenage mandolin player.
She's no slouch on guitar either. #Very Tony Rice-esque! (But then, don't we compare all great guitar picking to Tony Rice or Clarence White?) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[johnM]

I can respect everyone's opinion, but like cowboy hats, everybody has one. No one can deny this girl is talented beyond compare, she plays the music that is playing in her head and I wish I had enough enough talent to do the same. So it doenst meet the BG Polices' standard its still fantastic pickin', if she chooses she'll be at Winfield for many years to come and do well to boot, she'll deserve every bit of attention she gets.

I love monroe style music but I can see why that style of music doesn't do it for the Winfield gang. And so what that it doesn't, I can listen to someone like Roland or Compton and appreciate what they do just as much as I can Sierra.

[Laura Leder]

Sierra is not only a great mandolin and guitar player but she is one classy gal! Not only is she sweet and very down to earth but she works very hard at promoting bluegrass to young players. She and Ryan Holladay put out a dvd for IBMA which has this very goal in mind. She also did workshops at IBMA in 2007.

I,personally,think she's awesome!
Just my two cents.

Laura

[Bill Van Liere]

And she just got signed with Rounder Records. How bad is that?

[AlanN]

Awesome.

[Keith Erickson]

How cool is that she's taken the spot light on the Mandolin Café homepage http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Good for her!!!!

[andrew gates]

I don't understand how someone can say I am sick of hearing about the young players. If it isn't for the young players this instrument has a very bleak future.

Not all kids are finger acrobats as you put it.

Sierra Hull is a good player and has talent, period.
No one is worshipping her, she is liked by many people. So is Grisman and Statman and others. People just need to be more tolerant.
If i did not care for her or Thile or any other player, I would just not buy their stuff. I would not demean someone who enjoys her skills. Fast is awesome, so is slow and melodic...room for everyone's taste that way. Not everyone like Vanilla....

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif Andy minus the Pom Poms http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[woodwizard]

I'm old ... and not threatened by her. She's a little sweetheart that can really pick that thing. Such a talent for all of us to enjoy for many years to come. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Mark Walker]

And then of course there's the NEWS (http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_00789.shtml) on this talented young lady from today!

That'll be among my next CD acquisitions!

Congrats Sierra; congrats Rounder! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif # T

[ira]

now, i'm not a bluegrass guy, but i'm always amazed by the complaints about speed and precision as the litmus test of with or without feeling. here is a quote about the man himself from a critic from his early days as reported in an old ny times article
He named his band "The Blue Grass Boys," after his home state, and an entire branch of American music then named itself after his band. In describing Mr. Monroe's precision and speed, one critic argued that he was "less playing the mandolin than piloting it."

i agree with one poster about from the heart being more subjective for the listener than the origin from the player, but thile, et al... are just taking off from what the master started. i still know folks who like old country who have the "too fast" and involved" complaint about traditional bluegrass.

i've seen some of the youtube clips of this kid- bottom line- she has talent. the genre- not my thing but i can appreciate what she offers.
just my 2

[JeffD]

I haven't heard enough of her music, but I don't get the impression she is a Thile clone - in the sense of he being her model of a musician. Her playing, what I have heard, contains the influences of a lot of different musicians, and my understanding is that she her hero has been Alison Krause.

She is too young, IMHO, to fairly criticise for any "lack of heart", and in any case I haven't heard enough of her to tell. I look forward to hearing her music for the rest of my life.


I think of the fiddler Natalie McMasters much more than I think of Chris Thile, as a prototype. And Natalie just keeps getting better and better with age.

[mandolinny]

Feels the love all around!!!!! Group HUG!!!!!

[blacksmith]

As my father said (and he made an excellent living as a professional artist), "Art is the control of a medium". Applies to music just as much, think about it.

[Caleb]

I can't see criticizing a young person like this who is TRYING and DOING what most musicians never will. All that talk about being too fast, etc. is just sour grapes. Playing fast doesn't make you good, but I've never seen anyone who can play fast well that isn't good to begin with. Playing fast wows the crowd and builds credibility, so they do it. I have no problem with it.

I don't even like BG, but I can totally appreciate what she brings to the table with her music. I love to see younger people embracing traditional music, rather than the absolute KRAP that is out there today like Brittany Spears and rap/hip-hop that so many younger folks mindlessly follow after.

I wish Sierra the best.

[fishdawg40]

If I read correctly I don't think anybody said she lacked heart. And if someone did that is silly. The only people who say someone else lacks heart is if they lack chops themselves and are insecure with that. Sierra's style is not my cup of tea. However, she is amazing! You're allowed to separate the two.

The whole notion of technical mastery is not that appealing to me. My brother is a visual artist and he doesn't like Salvador Dali much because he "can't see the artist's hand in the painting." I think that is an apt metaphor. But just because you can't see the artist's hand doesn't mean it's not there.

[richieboy]

Hi,

Even though I like the Salt Creek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evo6fb9sc7U) video a lot (hell I uploaded it to YouTube!) there is something lacking IMHO, the tune is too relentlessly driven with not enough care given to shaping the phrases. However in this video Ice on the Road (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEvbkSKkVZk) Sierra display many subtle qualities, just listen to the springy rhythms and the beautiful melodic variations in the solo! Even Jim in Virgina must appreciate that
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's clear Sierra can do anything in the future and I'm willing to bet it will be something extraordinarily good.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[AlanN]

Nice tune, beautiful playing. Thanks for sharing.

[Timbofood]

I am always happy to hear /see the "youth" get involved in this music. I don't much care what bit them, I just hope that they all, now and then, take a listen to the real "originators" of this amazingly diverse style of music. "If one does not have any idea where they came from, how can they know where to go?"

[David Newton]

Ahhh, to be young, talented, with recognition, and a recording contract. I hope her daddy, and her friends steer her right.
Best of wishes Ms Hull!

[Timbofood]

I forgot to mention that the frilly round things that cheerleaders use are actually called POM PONs. (I got it from a cheerleader who said "It's a cheer thing ...you wouldn't understand." Honest!)

[kudzugypsy]

this young lady is only 16 - if you think back to when we were her age, it was really no different in terms of what we thought was cool and hot and desirable - what i mean is the older you get, the more refined (hopefully) your tastes become and you substitute more substance for flash. but you know, people LOVE that flash in someones playing - how many times have i had to suffer thru Orange Blossom Special and have people go nuts and not even care about more, lets say, *deeper* pieces of music. i see that A LOT in young pickers and i was no different, at 16, i would have MUCH rather played like Alan Bibey than Monroe, but now, years later, i actually find it more musically challenging to leave out the fluff and flash and make it more interesting musically.

i saw Chris Thiele more than a few times back when he first came out - i think he was 9 the first time i saw him, and then when he was 13, he opened some shows for Grisman - the kid had obvious talent, but was BORING after about 15 mins. the show when along the lines of "i wrote this tune when i was 4 - then the tune..."uh, i wrote this tune when i was 9" - then the tune, etc, etc. - after about 6 of these people were ready to hear Grisman. it was just too many notes for the ear to absorb in a way - they were just flying out of the mandolin....but, he has come a long way, as we knew he would as he matured and his music has pushed this genre another level. i think she will be a big surprise in the coming years.

oh, and yeah, its GREAT to see a young performer on our instrument get such recognition.

[first string]

i saw Chris Thiele more than a few times back when he first came out - i think he was 9 the first time i saw him, and then when he was 13, he opened some shows for Grisman - the kid had obvious talent, but was BORING after about 15 mins. the show when along the lines of "i wrote this tune when i was 4 - then the tune..."uh, i wrote this tune when i was 9" - then the tune, etc, etc. - after about 6 of these people were ready to hear Grisman. it was just too many notes for the ear to absorb in a way - they were just flying out of the mandolin....but, he has come a long way, as we knew he would as he matured and his music has pushed this genre another level. i think she will be a big surprise in the coming years.

oh, and yeah, its GREAT to see a young performer on our instrument get such recognition.
Sounds a lot like the criticisms leveled at Mozart in the play "Amadeus." Now I'm not sure how historically accurate those criticisms are (the play mixes a lot of documented facts with a fiction that evolved in Vienna shortly after his death). I'm also not comparing Thile to Mozart (he's very talented in my estimation, but that would be a little over the top). Reading your post I just kept hearing Emperor Joseph saying, "My dear fellow, there are in fact only so many notes the ear can hear in the course of an evening. My dear, young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Cut a few and it will be perfect."

Just goes to show that at any level, the quality of music is subjective. It's a matter of taste. Personally I don't have a problem with a lot of notes as long as there is a logic to them. If they are all building to something, then it is fine by me. I do think there is a temptation (in all art forms) to be dismissive of any work the demonstrates an extremely high level of technique. There seems to be this pervasive suspicion that that technique must be covering up for something else that is lacking. Personally I don't buy it. But at the same time I often like something a bit cruder, or rougher around the edges. I think that is an almost universal desire as well. Hence the appeal of rock and roll, modern art, and most contemporary literature.

[AlanN]

Well put, James.

And I hear Mr. Kudzu.

Chris is a marvel, and was as a young lad. I remember a mando workshop tape someone gave me - on stage, on down the line: Tony Williamson, Sam Bush, Chris Thile, Butch Baldassari, Drew Emmitt, Mike Compton, Tim O'Brien, Emory Lester, Jody Stecher, Jimmy Gaudreau. Maybe from 10 years ago.

Each talked, then played a tune. Bush did 'Brilliancy' and a bit of 'Mississippi Sawyer' (a la Jethro), Chris played a lovely piece, not a million notes per second, just a beautiful, perfectly played melody. Butch went next and uttered the classic "Never follow an animal act or a kid", then played 'Moonlight Waltz'. Jody played and sang a blues, Emory played 'Little France', O'Brien played 'Evening Prayer Blues', Compton did 'Old Dangerfield', and Gaudreau played 'Home Sweet Home'. Each player did his thing, and each was cool (even Drew Emmitt http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

Not sure what my point is http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Oh yeah, I remember, Sierra Hull. I like her.

[Daniel Wheeler]

"I think the problem is that I am just an old fuddy duddy and I'm getting tired of hearing about Seirra, Josh Pinkham, Thile etc."

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I don't understand the reasoning behind statements like these

[John Rosett]

This will be the first time that I've ever bought an album by a 16 year old girl.

[chasray]

I remember reading about a guy who asked a young mandolin player in an Irish pub "Why do you play so fast?" and he answered "Because I can."

More power to him and youth!

I'm all for Sierra Hull and look forward to her as she grows and develops her talent. I think she'll just get better and better.

Now, was someone bashing Britney Spears?

[Ivan Kelsall]

I think from what i've seen, heard & read about Sierra Hull,is that she's an incredibly gifted young woman,with a musical talent that i envy.All she needs now is to 'mature musically',which in the natural course of time she will do. She's just like the instrument she plays,she'll get better with age.
The early recordings by Bill Monroe just after Earl Scruggs joined his band,show Earl to be a bit 'unsophisticated',compared to the way he sounded when he was with Lester Flatt. Earl Scruggs matured within the context of a great band & was up & running at the time the Foggy Mt.Boys were formed. I think that Sierra Hull will do just the same within the context of her own band. She's going to be a power in the Mandolin world IMHO,
Saska

[Bertram Henze]

Jumping in on this very late, and not playing bluegrass myself, I nevertheless want to give my 2ct.

Youth and speed: Let us not forget that the young brain is programmed to learn fast and to mimic adult behavior. That's how life survives. So it's no wonder that a teenage girl can blow away the senior citizens most of us are, progress-wise.

Sour grapes: some appear to dislike her virtuosity, perhaps thereby secretly covering plain envy. If that is the case - envy is unneccessary for above reasons. We had our time, which was probably harder than those youngsters can imagine, but we have helped to prepare an environment in which they can thrive. The credits are also ours.

Too late - that's what I feel. I wish I had had a start like this, playing music I like with an instrument I like and having fun, instead of being forced into scraping tedious classic etudes on an instrument I hated. When I found out that music could be fun, I was almost thirty, much too late to pick up on growing as fast as that.

At the bottom of it all, I find the simple wish that - I suspect - many of us have: to be a kid again. Sierra Hull and kids like her remind us of what we are missing. It's not how fast she plays - it's the innocent fun she's obviously having.

Bertram

[mandopete]

It's all good.

[andrew gates]

Quote:

"I think the problem is that I am just an old fuddy duddy and I'm getting tired of hearing about Seirra, Josh Pinkham, Thile etc."

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
================================================== ===============

So......... stop listening to anything new, lock yourself in a cabin with all of the old records and be happy you have this musical heritage to enjoy. The rest of us will listen to old and new and be happy. I embrace the new artists and the Donnie Stiernberg swing Jazz guys, and the Rich Del Grosso Blues men, all of it. It is so encouraging to have the music be interpreted by new artists, stop being jealous and acting like anyone new getting press is a bad thing. I am so glad that the mandolin is getting infused with new blood and we still get to embraxce the old music. There are few instruments that breed such passion in their community. Bless the Mandolin and Bless the Mandolin players. Want to Listen to the old and the new...check out these clips...


Evan Marshall and friends (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cJUDFL1LKRU)

and

Evan Marshall and friends 2 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XZcr56iyskk)

[Joel Spaulding]

Very well said, Andrew.

[Ted Eschliman]

Thanks, Andrew. Spoken like the proud father of yet another amazingly talented kid.

[Daniel Wheeler]

*applause*

[Kbone]

Thanks, Andrew. Spoken like the proud father of yet another amazingly talented kid.
Ditto - these kids ( Scott, Sierra, others) are great & keep the mandolin alive & well.

[BPV]

...Still Applauding

[Andrew Faltesek]

Historically, perhaps; young talents were somewhat fewer or did not have the means, resource or promotion available in our media-centric world now...but these young musicians today are just incredible and really have a shot at commercial success.

There are cases where the parents push children too hard, but by and large there is a level of talent, passion, and drive that is unprecedented. What a cool and lucky break that talented musicians like Sierra Hull get to play with the established names and get exposure so early.

I've said it in another thread...the talented youth out there can sometimes run circles around us old-timers! They have incredible skill sets and we should all hope the best for them.

[JeffD]

Its a wonderful thing to see. I remember seeing Natalie McMasters (Nova Scota fiddler) when she was around the same age. It was magic, as it is to watch Sierra.

All that being said, I am glad it was not me.

What I mean is that I am glad to be good at what I am good at, and to make my living that way. I enjoy music as an avocation, and for me it should never be more than that.

What we say when we feel envious of these new young talents is that we wish we could play that well when we play. In other words, everything exactly as it is now except I can play that much better.

But the truth is that my life would have been inconceivably different were I that musically talented at that age, and it is hard to be envious of a life so different from the one I have lived and do live. I don't know if I would have liked pursuing a musical career, or having a musical future so defined at such an early age. Applause and adulation are great, and I will never say otherwise, but I would imagine there are a whole new set of challanges for a person who has such adulation at such a young age.

So yea I am impressed, in awe, amazed, and otherwise really enjoy the young new prodigies, but I can't say, upon sober reflection, that I am envious.

Thats just me.

[danb]

Playing fast or having flourish while being young does seem to set some folks on edge. I find that I go through a phase of being demoralized at first, then energized by the possibilities soon therafter.. whenever I hear someone very young playing very well.

I listened to the youtube clip that started this thread, and thought the playing was very nice, smooth, and tastfully done. My tastes do tend towards the energetic players, and she does a great job!

[Mark Walker]

Dan - I'm with you. #Sometimes these young talented individuals just make me want to put my instruments away.

I remember my first visit to IBMA - the last year it was in Louisville, KY (2004 I think) - I was absolutely STUNNED by the young pickers (male and female both) just tearing it up in the hallways of the Gault Hotel. #Frankly, many of them and the groups they were with were every bit as good as some of the featured acts on the main stage!

Once I accept my own modest talents (and tremendous limitations) I move on and totally enjoy hearing these young, talented musicians. And, I hope to hear good music from them for years to come as they grow, mature, and their music evolves! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Bertram Henze]

And, I hope to hear good music from them for years to come as they grow, mature, and their music evolves! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Yeah... and may they retain their young hearts and never grow up to be grumpy old misers like us (no offense) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Because professional musicianship can make you forget your aspirations (I have seen it) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Bertram

[Daniel Wheeler]

Again what kind of reasoning goes into a post like that ^

I would venture to guess this is about to be hit with the moderator stick. So my response will remain pedestrian.

[Daniel Wheeler]

Hmm I guess you deleted your post. Now no one knows what I'm referring to. How troubling

[bienkow1]

There was no need for my sarcastic reply, so I deleted it. I was just trying to get the point across that everyone is untitled to their own opinion, and message boards pretty much exist for that purpose.

Anyhow, you all make excellent points and I think Sierra has loads of talent and will be curious to watch her progression..

[entau]

I'd bet my last dollar Appollon , Burns, Monroe, Statman, Grisman, Marshall ( both of em) , Bush, and Thile - would all say -

"she rocks totally"

anybody puttin her down is just jealous

if you listen to early dawg - there is a lot of high velocity mando involved - the dawg has matured over the years like a fine bourbon -
I recall a young Mark O'Connor - playing fiddle tunes lightning fast- because he could - and it was fun!
when you're young and can fly like that - why wouldn't you?
I know I would

[sycamoremandolin]

entau: I agree. #I drove Sierra and her Mom to NY for a gig and got to know them both very well. Sierra is a very nice young lady, very talented and full of life. Her Mom rocks right along with Sierra. Sierra will be a long time in this business, and make many contributions to the art.

[birdman98]

[QUOTE]In describing Mr. Monroe's precision and speed, one critic argued that he was "less playing the mandolin than piloting it."


Great quote! Not sure if the "critic" was meaning that as a knock or a compliment. Reminds me of something that Carlos Santana would say about his own playing.

[John Flynn]

Never said she wasn't talented. She is. This is a discussion board and I just said I am not impressed with finger acrobatics.

I think the problem is that I am just an old fuddy duddy and I'm getting tired of hearing about Seirra, Josh Pinkham, Thile etc.

And so I appologize if I have over stepped the line!

FWIW, Jim, I mostly agree with you and even if I didn't, I don't see anything out of line in your posts. Some people have real thin skins here.

[man dough nollij]

Just out of curiosity, John-- what prompted you to respond to a post from fifteen months ago? :confused:

[John Flynn]

Just out of curiosity, John-- what prompted you to respond to a post from fifteen months ago? :confused:
I'm a procrastinator!:))

Actually, for some reason, this thread showed up in my "New Posts" and I didn't look at the dates. I am also just noticing now that it shows up as a 5 page thread, but the last two pages are exactly the same in my browser. So it seems to be some sort of technical glitch. Not sure if it's on my end or the Cafe's.

I would like to say, though, that I think IBMA should move to Antarctica!* :))

* The casual reader would have had to have insomnia this morning to get that reference!

[John McGann]

Sierra will be setting up camp in Boston to attend Berklee this fall. She's a great musician and person :mandosmiley:

[cedarhog]

I remember seeing her first on youtube as a little kid, being called up on stage to play with Sam Bush. I'm sure we have all seen that video. I thought her licks were tastier than Sam's. From that video I kinda searched her out over the years via youtube until I finally got to see her River City Bluegrass Festival in Portland recently.......great talent........super nice kid!

[Scotti Adams]

I agree with Brad. She is a major talent. To shrug her off as a Thile clone is not fair. Influenced by Thile, Rice, etc? Surely. Nothing wrong with that. I watched a vid of her with some others playing an Alan Bibey number. She paid homage to the man, and did her own thing, at the same time.

You, of course, can dig her music or not. Just like some of the acts listed on this message board, although very energetically lauded by many, are not my cup of tea.

Very well said Alan. You and I have talked very often re: this matter. While I can say Im taken aback by some of this young talent..and may or not be a little envious of them..I do find that for the most part they all sound the same..alot of Thilisims..Steffey..etc thrown into their playing. I respect all their talent I really do..but I prefer pickers with a little more edge in their playing...not a note a minute...and the slickness of the playing doesnt excite me. Now..dont get me wrong I would like to capture some of those new age licks but at 45 Im happy with my playing and if those licks happen to find their way into my playing its not because Im sitting down learning them..dont have the patience for that..Im capturing them on my own or subconsciencely.

Peace.

[Nick Triesch]

This all reminds me of 20 years ago when A/K and Union Station came out. I remember when bluegrass folks were saying that she was "too good"! Just too perfect. No heart. Perfect vocals. I just don't get it when many of the folks who started bluegrass were just plain sloppy and notes would just smash into each other and overlap into a mess. My cat sounds better. I'll take perfection. Nick

[mtucker]

This all reminds me of 20 years ago when A/K and Union Station came out. I remember when bluegrass folks were saying that she was "too good"! Just too perfect. No heart. Perfect vocals. I'll take perfection. Nick

Totally agree. Meantime .. a record twenty six (26) Grammy's later ...

[ApK]

Hey, by now, there's probably a new and different 'now' for 'Sierra hull - then and now'!


FWIW, Jim, I mostly agree with you and even if I didn't, I don't see anything out of line in your posts. Some people have real thin skins here.

BTW, I read the 'inappropriate' comment to mean 'an inappropriate assessment of Sierra Hull's talent', not inappropriate to post.

It's not a sign of thin-skinnedness to argue against someone's opinion.

Public boards like this exist to post opinions, yes. That in no way means that you should expect your posted opinion to go unchallenged.

Quite the contrary.

If you want to post opinions unchallenged, set up a no-comments blog. That's what I did. :)

ApK

[CES]

I love that a quirk in John's new posts box got this all stirred up again...

[Paul F]

I saw her on 2 different stages last weekend in Lowell, MA. She played short breaks in the context of bluegrass tunes, and I would have been happy to hear her open up, take extended breaks, and fly. As it was, she played well, notable for how cleanly she played, and tastesfully. I didn't feel she was playing the mando-hero, but you can tell she has talent in reserve.

[Alex Orr]

This all reminds me of 20 years ago when A/K and Union Station came out. I remember when bluegrass folks were saying that she was "too good"! Just too perfect. No heart. Perfect vocals. I just don't get it when many of the folks who started bluegrass were just plain sloppy and notes would just smash into each other and overlap into a mess. My cat sounds better. I'll take perfection. Nick
It's not a matter of "too good", it's a matter of style. Folks like Hull, Thile, and Steffey just don't play a style I find very interesting. The melody gets lost in a flurry of notes and there is scarcely any feeling of the blues coming through the music. One, or both of those things were very apparent in those early players pickin'. "Soul" is very subjective, but I don't feel like there is much in their playing, nor is there much groove in a lot of stuff I've heard from Hull and Thile. Again, two things that I find much more prevalent in older bluegrass recordings made by a previous generation. Does that mean I hate ALL of the stuff I hear by Steffey, Thile, Hull, etc...? No, actually I enjoy a lot of Steffey's stuff, and I actually like Hull's guita playing better. However, in general I prefer Monroe-style stuff. And just for the record, Monroe wasn't any slouch on the eight-string.

Personally, I think a lot of AK's stuff is amazing, and a lot of it is a total snoozefest. Her "perfect" voice has nothing to do with it - it's about the material and how it's treated. Same with Hull and Thile. The music is just laaaaame. Warmed over lite-acoustic elevator music. Over-earnestly sappy songwriting and no discernible hooks or strong melodies. Plus, I'll be honest, Hull's voice is kind of thin, and Thile's is average at best. Even worse, netiher of them seem to have much grit or soul. Give me Hazel Dickens or Jimmy Martin anyday. Those two may have less "perfect" voices but they can convey more soul in one note than I've ever heard out of Thile's mouth.

Are these folks impressive pickers? Sure, and so is Yngwie Malmsteen, but I think his take on rock music is awful. Give me the fun, focus, soul, and (yes) sloppiness of a Stones' album anyday.

"Mash into a mess"? That would be Thile overplaying a solo on a tune that should be served by the solo, not an excuse for note-a-second wankery that leaves the recognizable song behind within a few seconds. It's a fine line, but I know when it's been crossed and lots of the "hot" young pickers basically live on the "we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-melody" side of that line.

To sum up, this is not about a hatred of "perfect" musicians, it's about major stylistic diferences that should understandably polarize a listening audience. Neither side is objectively right, but hopefully this post shows that there are some legitimate aesthetic issues that a lot of us have towards some of the newer bluegrass acts, and none of it has to do with their skill level.

[MoBob]

Makes me feel old. Seems like yesterday this discussion was going on about a kid named Mark O'Connor.

[man dough nollij]

I would like to say, though, that I think IBMA should move to Antarctica!*

Great idea! I'll have to start a new thread in the "Equipment" section...

[mdlorenz]

odd that you see steffey as the same style as thile & sierra... I personally don't see any of them as the same style... or really shoehorned into any style for that matter.

[Austin Koerner]

Sierra will be setting up camp in Boston to attend Berklee this fall. She's a great musician and person :mandosmiley:

That's really cool. Even though I'm not going to Berklee, I'm going to go up there some to stay with my friend Kyle (he's going in the fall). I'm going to try to play with a bunch of awesome musicians while I'm there. Maybe I'll see you (and her).

[Nick Triesch]

It's fine. We all like what we like. I'll just take the new young folks sound over the cats tail under the rocking chair sound anytime. All that has happened is perfection has set in. It's happened in instrument building and with voices and flatpicking. Folks just got better. The old stuff sounds like bad pizza parlor music to me now. Nick

[Glassweb]

It's not a matter of "too good", it's a matter of style. Folks like Hull, Thile, and Steffey just don't play a style I find very interesting. The melody gets lost in a flurry of notes and there is scarcely any feeling of the blues coming through the music. One, or both of those things were very apparent in those early players pickin'. "Soul" is very subjective, but I don't feel like there is much in their playing, nor is there much groove in a lot of stuff I've heard from Hull and Thile. Again, two things that I find much more prevalent in older bluegrass recordings made by a previous generation. Does that mean I hate ALL of the stuff I hear by Steffey, Thile, Hull, etc...? No, actually I enjoy a lot of Steffey's stuff, and I actually like Hull's guita playing better. However, in general I prefer Monroe-style stuff. And just for the record, Monroe wasn't any slouch on the eight-string.

Personally, I think a lot of AK's stuff is amazing, and a lot of it is a total snoozefest. Her "perfect" voice has nothing to do with it - it's about the material and how it's treated. Same with Hull and Thile. The music is just laaaaame. Warmed over lite-acoustic elevator music. Over-earnestly sappy songwriting and no discernible hooks or strong melodies. Plus, I'll be honest, Hull's voice is kind of thin, and Thile's is average at best. Even worse, netiher of them seem to have much grit or soul. Give me Hazel Dickens or Jimmy Martin anyday. Those two may have less "perfect" voices but they can convey more soul in one note than I've ever heard out of Thile's mouth.

Are these folks impressive pickers? Sure, and so is Yngwie Malmsteen, but I think his take on rock music is awful. Give me the fun, focus, soul, and (yes) sloppiness of a Stones' album anyday.

"Mash into a mess"? That would be Thile overplaying a solo on a tune that should be served by the solo, not an excuse for note-a-second wankery that leaves the recognizable song behind within a few seconds. It's a fine line, but I know when it's been crossed and lots of the "hot" young pickers basically live on the "we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-melody" side of that line.

To sum up, this is not about a hatred of "perfect" musicians, it's about major stylistic diferences that should understandably polarize a listening audience. Neither side is objectively right, but hopefully this post shows that there are some legitimate aesthetic issues that a lot of us have towards some of the newer bluegrass acts, and none of it has to do with their skill level.

I'm with you on this one Alex... well said!

[Glassweb]

It's fine. We all like what we like. I'll just take the new young folks sound over the cats tail under the rocking chair sound anytime. All that has happened is perfection has set in. It's happened in instrument building and with voices and flatpicking. Folks just got better. The old stuff sounds like bad pizza parlor music to me now. Nick

yo Nick... if you thing Monroe's AMAZING body of work sounds like bad pizza parlor music, well... you're eatin' in the wrong pizza parlor!

[300win]

She & other famous mandolin players can pick way better than I can. Ain't no way I was ever that fast, although I was faster at 20 then I am now at 54. But now at 54 I know way more tunes, riffs, runs, licks, whatever you want to call 'em than at age 20. I expect if I do live another 30 years I'll know more but will be unable to do 'em. I like to see youngsters burn it up, although I ain't no fan of, to use the expression, "finger acrobatics", I still respect what kind of suppleness, quick reactions, and energy it takes to be able to do that. Kids are amazing when they can do so much more in a very short time that we who have had our hand on the plow for many years can do. It's almost unbelievable to me sometimes to watch somebody like Hull play. I was always stunned by Sam Bush when I first heard him a very long time ago, and he's around my age, but he can still "cut" it, and I'm still stunned by him. Bottom line, they's a bunch of good pickers out there, some that will never be heard by anyone other than thier neighbors.

[jim_n_virginia]

It's not a matter of "too good", it's a matter of style. Folks like Hull, Thile, and Steffey just don't play a style I find very interesting. The melody gets lost in a flurry of notes and there is scarcely any feeling of the blues coming through the music. One, or both of those things were very apparent in those early players pickin'. "Soul" is very subjective, but I don't feel like there is much in their playing, nor is there much groove in a lot of stuff I've heard from Hull and Thile. Again, two things that I find much more prevalent in older bluegrass recordings made by a previous generation. Does that mean I hate ALL of the stuff I hear by Steffey, Thile, Hull, etc...? No, actually I enjoy a lot of Steffey's stuff, and I actually like Hull's guita playing better. However, in general I prefer Monroe-style stuff. And just for the record, Monroe wasn't any slouch on the eight-string.

Personally, I think a lot of AK's stuff is amazing, and a lot of it is a total snoozefest. Her "perfect" voice has nothing to do with it - it's about the material and how it's treated. Same with Hull and Thile. The music is just laaaaame. Warmed over lite-acoustic elevator music. Over-earnestly sappy songwriting and no discernible hooks or strong melodies. Plus, I'll be honest, Hull's voice is kind of thin, and Thile's is average at best. Even worse, netiher of them seem to have much grit or soul. Give me Hazel Dickens or Jimmy Martin anyday. Those two may have less "perfect" voices but they can convey more soul in one note than I've ever heard out of Thile's mouth.

Are these folks impressive pickers? Sure, and so is Yngwie Malmsteen, but I think his take on rock music is awful. Give me the fun, focus, soul, and (yes) sloppiness of a Stones' album anyday.

"Mash into a mess"? That would be Thile overplaying a solo on a tune that should be served by the solo, not an excuse for note-a-second wankery that leaves the recognizable song behind within a few seconds. It's a fine line, but I know when it's been crossed and lots of the "hot" young pickers basically live on the "we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-melody" side of that line.

To sum up, this is not about a hatred of "perfect" musicians, it's about major stylistic diferences that should understandably polarize a listening audience. Neither side is objectively right, but hopefully this post shows that there are some legitimate aesthetic issues that a lot of us have towards some of the newer bluegrass acts, and none of it has to do with their skill level.

Careful Alex the Sierra and Thile cheerleaders will come out of the woodwork and flog you with their pom poms like they did me 18 months ago when I merely stated my opinion! LOL!

And I agree with your post whole heartedly.

Give me the old pizza parlor music ANY day! :grin:

Anyways some like the Punch Bros and some don't, some like Bill Monroe and some don't, thats just the way it is.

As long as we all get to keep on picking! :mandosmiley:

[jim_n_virginia]

I'm a procrastinator!:))



:)):)):))

[Chris Biorkman]

I wouldn't really say that Hull and Thile are that similar stylistically, aside from the fact that they both play lots of triplets. Sierra stays a lot closer to the melody than Chris does and her music is much more traditional. I don't know how any young player out there could grow up without being at least a little bit influenced by Thile. He is, in my opinion, the most technically proficient player ever and the most influential player since Bill Monroe. He's made mandolin music accessible to a whole generation of young people and I think that's something you have to give him credit for, whether or not you like his music.

[kmiller1610]

The "flurry of notes" complaint strikes me as somewhat odd.

Since Thile and others who can play fast do play slower and more expressive, soulful music, is the implication that they can't play with soul or that it irritates you when they remove the instrument from the social, front porch context that sort of binds regular players together?

I like the fast stuff. I think a raging mandolin front man with a band that can keep up with him is very exciting music.

I recently bought Timinski's "Wheels" because I saw the Steffey work on the title cut on "Pure Country" on TV.

What a disappointment. Nearly the whole album is expressive, soulful, country ballads.

I still think this ongoing debate boils down to bell tone vs blues tone. But I already did that thread.

[Rob Gerety]

I saw Sierra last week in a little free concert near by. She put on a nice show and she was very cute and sweet etc. My sense is that she is an excellent player and singer - a raw talent - still finding her voice. I enjoyed the show. The young kid that played banjo with her seemed quite good.

[AlanN]

Agree about Wheels. Not enough up-tempo numbers to let Adam loose.

[Oggy]

I can't understand why it's always a question of either/or... why can't you like both styles? I certainly do. Thile and Compton is my two greatest sources of inspiration. Why limit yourself?

The way I see it: It's not the number of brushstrokes that make a painting great or not, it's where the artist chose to put them and the feeling they convey together as a whole - it may be an abstract picture or a more narrative subject matter, but I will never stand there in a gallery counting the number of brushstrokes in a paiting, it's simply irrelevant. Instead I ask myself: What does the picture tell me? How does it make me feel? I believe it's the same way with the number of notes... it doesn't matter how many they are IF THEY ARE WELL CHOSEN!