Song royalties :

[300win]

Just a question here. Have any of you written a song that has been recorded by a Bluegrass artist that you are not recieving your royalties from ? Just curious as I have one that has been released numerous times, but no matter who I contact about it, it seems nobody knows anything about it. In other words I'm getting the old run-around. Just wondering if any of the rest of you have run into the same problem.

[Fred Keller]

I have a good friend who's a composer. Her work is performed routinely--though not often--during the year. She joined ASCAP a number of years ago (something like a $100 initial fee) in order to ensure that she collects her due royalties. Every year she gets a small check from ASCAP because someone, somewhere has performed one of her pieces.

For all their faults and drawbacks (enumerated on this board, typically in discussions of jams being shut down), this is one area that ASCAP does well. Assuming you aren't already a member, perhaps that's something to consider.

I'm no expert, but I've written some songs and have poked around a little to figure out the best way of making sure I protect myself.

[uncle ken]

If the recording is a small, independent or self released CD, you will probably have to trust the artist to pay up if you have a verbal agreement with them. It's probably not worth the time and trouble to hire a lawyer. If the recording is on a major label and you have an agreement with the artist, I would talk to a lawyer if there is a sizable royalty due.

[dmamlep]

at 8cents a copy it would have to be produced and sold lots to get any thing of value. but I will say as a writer and with a group. when we cover a song we go to ascap or the Harry fox agency and pay for the rights to do it. its just right, and I know there are lots that dont,just think how you would feel if someone done yours without paying.

[Fred Keller]

Hey dmamlep: it's all the way up to 9.1 cents a copy http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I echo what Uncle Ken says about small batch recording. I don't believe Harry Fox even has an option to license their catalog if your run is under 250 units.

Nevertheless, right is right. If these folks have recorded your music without paying for the privilege, they're not doing themselves any favors and eventually they'll get into trouble.

One thought springs to mind as I write. I used to play with some folks who at one time had a duo act. They were a small, regional folky act and didn't play a lot but unbeknownst to them, their name was the same as a larger concern on the east coast. This east coast band sent them a strongly worded letter from a lawyer suggesting they might want to choose a different name. They did so, just to avoid any potential trouble.

I'm NOT saying getting instantly litigious is the right thing for you (or anyone) but a letter signed by a lawyer is definitely a more intermediate step than filing a suit.

[Red Henry]

Murphy has had several songs recorded by other groups, and we've received royalties for them except in a few cases where we licensed them to young groups without charge.

Note that we've received that money only because we publish our music ourselves. If our publishing was in someone else's hands, or if it were up to a record company, I would not necessarily expect to receive the royalties which were due is. The music industry is like that.

On a related subject, airplay royalties, we receive those too, most recently for Casey's and Chris's tunes that have received satellite-radio airplay. So the system does work, at least to some extent!

Red

[300win]

I appreciate the info. I've been a member of BMI for many years. I have recieved royalty checks from them for when my song had air-play on college radio stations. But what I'm talking about is the mechanical royalties. I have a song that has been done for many years by one of the better known Bluegrass artist, but I have never recieved any money from it's release, airplay, or anything. I spent a great deal of last year trying to track down the answer to this via e-mails, and phone calls, all to no avail. All I got was check this person, and they would say, no you need to check with this person, etc, etc. It is kind of frustrating.

[JeffD]

Does the "poor man's copyright" work for music? If you write the music out and mail a copy to yourself, will the dated unopened envelope with your music inside prove you wrote it first?

[Ted Eschliman]

I recorded a soft jazz synth-based instrumental Christmas album back in 1991. A member of BMI, I never received a dime from them (even though I paid my yearly dues); the only money I made was from 3M. I signed a contract with them and received $50-75 a year for about three years after. They were responsible for programming background music for stores, airlines, and phones.

In addition to the cash, I felt great pride in the fact that my music was being heard in elevators and shopping malls throughout the country...

[MikeEdgerton]

In addition to the cash, I felt great pride in the fact that my music was being heard in elevators and shopping malls throughout the country...
That brings tears to my eyes.

[dmamlep]

Well I am glad it went up, I hope someone records some of our groups songs. As for Harry Fox, If you are just doing under 250 copies, looks like your frieds and others would have you selling more than that.we have our own recording equipment but we still pay for the songs we cover.

[Michael H Geimer]

JeffD,
I think the "poor man's" method is flawed. Even if it did hold up in court, the real issue is tracking the distribution and airplay, and collecting from the artist(s) who have recorded your songs.

300win,
Are you affiliated with any organization like ASCAP or BMI? Working through an agency like that is the typical method. (Edit: Doesn't BMI handle Mechanicals? I'm in an odd spot because my Mechs come from the EU, not the US ... so I'm of little help here)

Good luck!

- MG

BTW: That 9.1% figure is in jeopardy right now.

[300win]

Yes like I stated I'm affiliated with BMI, and I have gotten royalties from college radio air play, but only that. My understanding that I got from my search last year is that the publisher is supposed to take care of any mechanical royalty payments to the songwriter. At least that is what I was told. I have a theory on what has happened in my case. It is this; long years ago when I wrote the song I am talking about, I was a member of a band that consited of guys I grew up with playing. Two of them went on to pro status in a newly formed band with a person that had been there in the pro ranks for a long time. On the first album they cut my song was on it, and it has been re-released twice that I know of since then, and one of those have been recent on a 25th aniversary tribute to this artist and his many versions of his band. I think that either him, or my two picking pals of long ago are the ones getting any royalties off my song. How I don't know, but this is what I think. Odd thing about this is whenever this particular artist does my song in a live show, he always states it is one of his favorites, he did it on the 25th aniversary dvd that he released, and sometimes on live shows he even aknowledges that I'm one of his favorite songwriters. I've heard this from people that have been to watch his performaces, as I have not been to a professional Bluegrass concert in a very long time. But I did watch the 25th aniversary dvd. So go figure? I just know that last year in my search, I was told many differant things some contradictory to each other by all these people that know each other, and worked with each other, either in the present or past.The last person I spoke with was a rep from the record label/publishing company that actually recorded the first recording of my song. They were supposed to get back to me with some kind of answer but #they did not. After that last conversation with them, thay will not answer my e-mails, nor will they take any phone calls from me. Sounds kinda suspicious does it not? I'm tired of fooling with it. I do not have the funds to hire an attorney to pursue it any further. So I guess I'll just have to say, I hope that whomever is getting the royalties off of my song, I hope they really need it. No matter how small or large that may be.

[Michael H Geimer]

300win,
Sorry I missed your comment a bout being affiliated with BMI. What has probably happened here is that your ex-bandmates didn't include you as a writer when they published the album. We made a point of contacting and including our ex-mates when they deserved credit, or partial credit for writing material, but sadly not everyone does that.

Again ... good luck. I hope it all works out for you smoothly.

- Mike

[jaydee]

I think you should at least talk to an attorney to see if you stand a chance of getting paid. It would be worth it to me to spend a few bucks to know what my options were. Good luck.
Jeremy

[HogTime]

Usually the liner notes for a CD list the songwriter of a song. See who is listed as the songwriter, then contact them.

Also check Harry Fox (http://www.harryfox.com/songfile/public/publicsearch.jsp) to see if it's in their database.

[300win]

In the matter of who is listed as the songwriter, it has always been me, on every recording of the song. So who knows? Like I staed, I believe I've been "ho-dooed" by somebody.

[300win]

Ralph, just checked the Harry Fox website that you posted. Entered the title of the song and my name, and the results were that I was the writer, and also told who had recorded it.

[Red Henry]

A great many bluegrass writers have never received royalties for their songs and tunes, even when the numbers were released on well-known bluegrass labels and sold well (for bluegrass). In years past, this was the rule rather than the exception. Sometimes it seemed that the recording company just did not bother paying royalties, and sometimes a publisher who received royalties would not make sure that the writer's share was passed on to him or her.

It's much easier now, at least for self-publishing writers such as Murphy and myself, to make sure we receive royalties. The digital recordkeeping and accounting by satellite and some other other radio facilities is a lot better at making sure that writers get their money (and publishers too, for whose benefit the system may have been primarily designed).

There are many bluegrass songs which are in the hands of responsible, conscientious publishers. And then there are others. After a recent Harry Fox audit of one record label, a good friend of ours received about $1000 in songwriter royalties which the label had somehow forgotten to send him. And so it goes--

Red

[300win]

OK, I thought about not posting this info, but what the heck, what am I' going to be sued? The Bluegrass artist that I'm talking about is none other than Doyle Lawson, and his original Quicksilver band. Which consisted of two guys I grew up picking with, { Jimmy Haley, and Louis Pyrtle, aka Lou Reid}, and another guy I've known from way back when I was A kid playing, Terry Baucum. The title of the song is ; "I'll Be With You". Any of you familar with these pickers, or this song?

[HogTime]

Seems to be cut-n-dried that you're due royalties. I think I've read that you'd only get "back royalties" at the rate in effect when the record/CD was produced. I.e., it wouldn't be the current 9.1c for something released years ago.

Sounds like at least one "lawyer letter" to the record label might be a good investment. PM Red Henry about how the Harry Fox audit got started.

Good luck,

[dmamlep]

I would hope its not Doyle's fault, I have chatted with him several times, just seems to be a top notch guy.

[Wolfboy]

OK, I thought about not posting this info, but what the heck, what am I' going to be sued? The Bluegrass artist that I'm talking about is none other than Doyle Lawson, and his original Quicksilver band. Which consisted of two guys I grew up picking with, { Jimmy Haley, and Louis Pyrtle, aka Lou Reid}, and another guy I've known from way back when I was A kid playing, Terry Baucum. The title of the song is ; "I'll Be With You". Any of you familar with these pickers, or this song?
That's you? Hell yes, I love that song (and that album). Bought it on vinyl when it first came out and now have the CD. Don't have the vinyl here but on the CD the composer credit reads "Jeff Hooker, BMI", with no publishing company mentioned. Assuming you're Jeff Hooker and you've got the song copyrighted in your name, there's no question but that Sugar Hill Records, Inc. is legally obligated to pay you mechanical royalties and any back royalties due. (Sugar Hill Records owns the copyright to that recording, and evidently has since its original issue in 1979, so they're the ones that owe you royalties, not the band...the band might not need to be involved in this at all.)

If it were me...and I'm no lawyer, so take this for what it's worth...I'd give it one more phone call and/or letter to Sugar Hill, then consult an attorney. A consultation might cost nothing or might be a one-time fee (couple hundred bucks, maybe) and you'd know what your options are. If you own the song's copyright, the law's on your side: Sugar Hill has to pay you the standard rate per unit, simple as that. That recording's been out since 1979; it's inexcusable if you've never received mechanicals.

Again, it's the record company's responsibility to pay mechanical royalties, not the recording artist's, so it seems most likely that Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver are innocent of any malice in this case. It's not their responsibility, it's Sugar Hill's.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[300win]

Wolfboy, appreciate the comments, and I'm glad you like the song. Believe me I've tried a bunch to get an answer from Sugar Hill but to no avail. They will not even accept my calls! Whenever I call and the secetary answers and I tell her who I want to speak to, I'm put on hold, then I'm cut off. Maybe I should see a attorney. But I really don't have the funds to go to any court time on this. I'd just like to know the truth of the matter, thats all.

[MikeEdgerton]

Join ASCAP or BMI. Let them do the work for you. I'm sure if they think they have money to recoup they will get yours as well.

[Brian Ray]

Mr. Hooker,

This is of course a drag. I would think you should be consulting a lawyer rather than a forum but I'm sure it helps to get it off your chest. For my past records, I was on BMI, and I'm sure they have told you that this is not their deal and you should take it up with the record company or artist? Have you gotten anything from them for performances/radio/tv/dvd?

You didn't mention if you have a publishing company, so I'm assuming you're your own publisher and therefore your publisher is not to blame http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (Although if this is not true, you may need to have words with yourself!).

I hadn't heard that the rate went up to 9 cents. Either way, this is typically negotiated down... but in your case, for collecting back pay, I'd hit 'em for the full amount.

I certainly would try to contact your ex-bandmates and/or Doyle and see what they think and if they might help get this resolved with the label...

Again, sorry to hear this. Good luck...

[300win]

Only reason I posted this here is to see if any other people here had the same experienc I've had. Did not mean for it to become a "drag" to anyone. I know who the publishing company is, who owns it, but after trying to get an answer from them all last year, they will not even accept my calls, or answer any emails. As far as getting a attorney, will be very hard to do on disability pay.

[jim simpson]

Mr. Hooker,
Sorry to hear of your plight. I too have enjoyed your composition as recorded by Doyle and company.
It might be worthwhile to send a certified letter to the unresponsive parties to at least document your efforts.
Sometimes old fashioned "snail mail" will net a result that electronic mail or phone calls won't.
Keep us posted.

[Brian Ray]

Oh... no sir. Sorry. I meant, your situation is a drag. Not you posting. I applaud you talking about it and only suggest talking with a lawyer.

Sorry for the confusion.

[mandomick]

Only reason I posted this here is to see if any other people here had the same experienc I've had. Did not mean for it to become a "drag" to anyone. I know who the publishing company is, who owns it, but after trying to get an answer from them all last year, they will not even accept my calls, or answer any emails. As far as getting a attorney, will be very hard to do on disability pay.
This doesn't sound like the kind of case where you need to pay a lot of $ up front. Many lawyers will consult with you intially free of charge to get a feel for the problem and your chances for success. From what's been written here it seems that the royalties are owed to you and that you're just being ignored with the hope that you'll go away. Sounds like you won't be taken seriously until whoever owes you gets a letter demanding payment, interest, etc written on a law firms letterhead.

Before you decide that you can't afford to pursue this, you need to talk to an atty. You can call the bar association and they can give you names of lawyers that deal with "entertainment" law. I have no clue how much you're owed but you may be able to collect after having a demand letter sent for a one time fee but you won't know if you don't try.

Best of luck.

[Don Julin]

I know a little about BMI and how they work. 1st did you register the song with BMI? This does not cost anything, you can do it on line. I once had royalties due to me from a song that had not been registered. I found out about it , registered the song and a few months later got my $$. I currently have a song being used in a national ad that I have not recieved money from. I called BMI and they were helpful in getting the proper forms to me so I could collect. Rumor has it that I will start collecting on that one on my next statement in the spring. Both of these cases are performance royalties not mechanical but I would make sure the song is registerd under the correct title and then call your BMI rep. You can find contact info on the BMI website. Hope this helps.

Don Julin

[Wolfboy]

I agree with mandomick's post. FWIW, when Warner Bros. Records issued the Deliverance version of "Dueling Banjos" credited to "traditional" and were sued for copyright violation by the song's composers, Arthur Smith and Don Reno, Smith and Reno not only won their rightful back royalties but their legal expenses as well. There's a legal precedent for you...

It does sound like Sugar Hill is just ignoring you and hoping you'll go away. Dorian Recordings did that to me when they were in their final spasms before declaring bankruptcy, and I only got what I wanted from them with the help of an attorney. Sad, but such is the corporate world sometimes.

(In answer to your original question of people's experiences in these matters, I hasten to add that not all record companies are like that; Narada was very good about paying me royalties on my compositions on that label, including a nice fat one-off when one of my tunes was used in a film. The system does actually work sometimes...and certainly should in your case.)

[300win]

Don, yes all my songs are registered with BMI, and have been for the past 25 years. To Wolfboy, Mick, and all the rest of you, I do appreciate your input, and words of encourgement. I gained some insight on this problem. To all of you who are writers you know that when you write down words on paper in the form of a song, you are describing just a little of your experience in life, and if someone robs you of that, then they in effect have taken a small part of your life away.

[HogTime]

300win,

The following is all from my reading re songwriting, not personal experience or professional knowledge.

The song has a publisher. Therefore, you must have signed a contract at some point that assigned the copyright to them. In the contract there should have also been an agreement to the "split" of the mechanical royalties between you and the publisher; 50/50 being "standard".

It seems to me that your gripe is with the publisher, not the record label. Send them a certified letter asking for a copy of the contract you signed (assuming you don't have it).

I took a look at the Copyright Office database to see what it has regarding your song. I see the "sound recording" by Doyle Lawson, but didn't see anything regarding a publisher. However, maybe I didn't know specifically what to look for. Also the online database only goes back to 1978.

Look here and plug in the pubisher's name and select "Name" in the "Search by" box.
Copyright Catalog (http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First)

Good luck,

[Wolfboy]

300win,

The song has a publisher. Therefore, you must have signed a contract at some point that assigned the copyright to them. In the contract there should have also been an agreement to the "split" of the mechanical royalties between you and the publisher; 50/50 being "standard".

It seems to me that your gripe is with the publisher, not the record label.
Right, unless 300win is his own publisher (a common practice), in which case we're back to the record company owing both the composer and the publisher. Depends on the specifics of his case, which, obviously, he knows and I don't...

[Fred Keller]

There's one other issue that may be in play also. I don't know how this works throughout the country, but in the upper midwest nearly all--if not every last one--of the radio stations that program bluegrass music are public radio stations. Public radio stations don't pay royalties.

Now as the writer with copyright, you're still do the 9.1 cents per copy but you won't get any cash from airplay if it only plays on public radio stations.

I don't know if this is appropriate to your situation, but it is for mine.

[300win]

Yes I do have a signed contract. A copy, and the original that I sent back to Sugar Hill Recording Company. But they will not aknowledge me in any way when I contact them. I just found out that my song has been transfered to Yak Yak Music, Demi Music Corp, Lichelle Music Company located in Burbank CA. When I go to thier website, I can't email them, so I'll try the regular phone lines, and possibly send a legal letter to them. Thanks to all for ya'll's help on this.

[Rick Smith]

I'm been considering a different angle concerning royalties. I think other's may be willing to pay me royalties for not playing their songs. Given my capabilities I think I could mop up.

[EdSherry]

As previously noted, there are two types of royalties: #"mechanical" royalties when your song is included on a recording, and "public performance" royalties when your song is played (whether on the radio or in live performance). #ASCAP and BMI get involved in the latter, not the former. #Many songwriters/publishers have the Harry Fox Agency collect their mechanical royalties for them, in exchange for a fee. #If you're getting a runaround from a record label, I'd suggest either having a lawyer send a letter (many law firms will give a free or low-cost initial consultation) or contacting Harry Fox. #Labels have little choice but to respond to Fox.

[Wolfboy]

One other point that occurs to me about this, and I only vaguely remember reading it somewhere so please confirm it with a qualified entertainment lawyer if you wind up going that route: I believe that labels are obligated to pay mechanicals on all copies manufactured, not all copies sold...i.e. they still have to pay mechanicals on promo copies, radio copies, etc. (Yes, I assume that would include copies they sell to the artist which the artist then sells at live performances.) If your song is on three different DL&Q titles, one of which has been more or less continually in print since 1979...well, as Red says, bluegrass albums generally aren't monster sellers, but still, the mechanicals could add up to something. And if you own the copyright, whatever they do add up to is rightfully yours.

[ryanfbaker]

Wolfboy, appreciate the comments, and I'm glad you like the song. Believe me I've tried a bunch to get an answer from Sugar Hill but to no avail. They will not even accept my calls! Whenever I call and the secetary answers and I tell her who I want to speak to, I'm put on hold, then I'm cut off. Maybe I should see a attorney. But I really don't have the funds to go to any court time on this. I'd just like to know the truth of the matter, thats all.
Where exactly are you calling? Because if you're calling Sugar Hill in Nashville, where I work, I find it very hard to believe you're getting put on hold and then cut off. That's not the way we work around here.

That said, our royalty accountant is not at this office, but rather at the Vanguard Records office (our sister label). 310-829-9355

If it is true that you are owed royalties from so long ago, I would think that it has been for a decent reason. While royalty payments often take way too long to get to the songwriters, I think that if it's been 30 years, there is another legal reason that you haven't seen anything.

[300win]

ryanfbaker, I'm calling Sugar Hill office in North Carolina. Last year I spoke with a Lynda Whitig, a person that Suzzane Lawson, Doyle's wife, told me to talk to. Ms. Whitig sent me the contract, I signed it and returned it, and kept my copy. The last time I spoke with Ms. Whitig she told me that Sugar Hill had a guy in California researching how much royalty monies I am due. After this conversation with me, I can no longer get in touch with her either through e-mail, or phone calls.
As far as it being a legal reason I have not recieved royalty payments, I know nothing of that. It seems to me if there had ever been a reason legally, then I would have been contacted.
Thanks for the info, I'll try the phone number you gave me and see if I can talk with anyone there.

[sailaway]

since you can prove you are the lawful owner, why not tally up what you think you are owed and sue SugarHill and Doyle both in small claims court in your home town. You can get a subpoena from your court and also ask them/Sugar Hill for all data and records that show how many copies they have pressed and how much in sales of any CDs containing your song.. that will allow you to do 'an accounting' of what you're owed . for all the gospel songs that group sings, you would think QSilver would seriously obey the commandment that says Thou Shalt Not Steal http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif I am disappointed in SugarHill and DL both and will boycott their label and performances til they do you right.:blues:

[The Old Sarge]

since you #can #prove #you are #the #lawful owner, #why #not #tally #up #what #you #think #you #are #owed #and #sue #SugarHill and #Doyle #both in #small #claims #court #in #your #home #town. You #can #get a #subpoena #from #your #court #and also #ask them/Sugar Hill #for all #data #and records that #show how #many #copies #they #have #pressed #and #how #much #in #sales #of #any #CDs # containing #your #song.. that #will #allow #you #to #do 'an #accounting' of #what #you're #owed . #for all the #gospel #songs #that #group # sings, #you #would #think #QSilver would #seriously #obey #the #commandment #that #says Thou Shalt Not Steal http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #I #am #disappointed #in SugarHill and #DL # both and #will #boycott #their #label #and #performances til #they do you #right. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
I have stayed out of this issue because I see too much of this type thing on a day to day basis but your closing lines cause me to think of another Biblical principle about judging (no, not the the "judge not" Scripture). I believe we are to make righteous judgments and, although WIN300 appears to have a good case, we can't make a fair judgment of the facts having not heard from the other side. So it might be premature to judge Doyle Lawson or boycott his records until all the facts are available. JMHO.

[Red Henry]

A sincere "Good Luck" from all here in arranging to receive those royalties. Whether they were not paid you intentionally or by accident (or "accidentally on purpose) and whether this was done by the label or by your publisher, this is an especially flagrant case of someone's dropping the ball on what was owed you.

But speaking of Sailaway's post, much depends on proving the numbers of CDs pressed. One subterfuge traditionally used by bluegrass labels to evade royalty payments is to keep secret or "lose" their records showing the numbers of albums or CDs pressed and distributed.

In recent years things have been a bit more open (and royalties more regularly paid) but I have spoken to people who've written may songs released on bluegrass labels-- even the labels releasing their own recordings-- who have not received any royalties at all.

Red

[300win]

No I don't want to jump to conclusions on this. I do not know who is at fault if anyone. Might be a case of just misplacing info. Who knows ? The main thing I would like is to just find out the "truth" about it all. I don't think Doyle Lawson would do such a thing, and as I said it was Suzanne who was instrumental in heading me in what she thought was the correct direction. She seems like a nice lady, and I think what she told me was sincere, and I don't know of any reason that Doyle would do such a thing, because as I've stated it is probably not too much money, but it is the "PRINCIPAL" of the matter that concerns me the most. Yes I would be happpy to get any royalty money owed to me, who wouldn't ? Heck if it was a couple hundred bucks, look how many sets of strings I could get with that, but that is again not the burning issue with me, it is getting a truthful answer from whomever. The way all contact was broke with me last year about this got me to thinking, something is not right. And that is the straw that broke the camels back. Now I'm intrigued about what is going on. No I don't want anyone to boycott anybody about this. As far as suing goes, I don't believe in doing that. I don't want anyone on here to think I'm some kind of crazed nut case putting this in a public forum, but the original post I made was to see if there were others here that the same thing has happened to them, and to get advise, some of which has been excellant and I've acted on some of that already. Although I do appreciate the support, I don't want anyone to change thier minds on what they think of a artist based on my plight. I might have another song or two that might get recorded someday, but one thing is for sure, I'm smarter now than I was before.

[The Old Sarge]

Although I do appreciate the support, I don't want anyone to change thier minds on what they think of a artist based on my plight. I might have another song or two that might get recorded someday, but one thing is for sure, I'm smarter now than I was before.
I'll bet you have more than one or two songs left in you and I hope they get out to the music community someday. And most of us get a little smarter with age (in my case it is only a little, I'm old enough I should be a genius by now but haven't made it yet). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ryanfbaker]

300win, thanks for keeping a cooler head on this than whoever says to sue and boycott Sugar Hill. You may not know that Sugar Hill closed their NC office in January of last year, so that would explain why you never heard back from them.

And please, sailaway, boycotting us will do nothing towards helping anything... please don't boycott us! We're good people over here and love our fans and songwriters. Nobody working here right now was here at the time that particular album came out, nor do any of us directly deal with royalties (that would be people at our parent company).

As for your song being transferred to "Yak Yak Music, Demi Music Corp, Lichelle Music Company", I suggest that your problem more likely lies with them. However, please keep trying the Welk Music number I posted earlier and speak to the royalties accountant and let me know what they say.

Sugar Hill is good folk! We aim to please! Don't rush to judgment people!

[Wolfboy]

I am disappointed in SugarHill and DL both and will boycott their label and performances til they do you right.
Now now...it looks like there might be light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ryanfbaker's information and help. 300win's inability to get answers from Sugar Hill might just be because of their recent move. Hope so anyway.

And now that we know that 300win's song has a publisher other than himself, maybe the problem lies there after all, as ryanfbaker says, rather than with Sugar Hill.

But in any event, I seriously doubt that Doyle Lawson and the other members of Quicksilver (past or present) are parties to this matter at all. Of course I'm in no position to know, but it would be most unusual for recording artists to have any direct influence on a label's payment policies, even if the fault does lie with Sugar Hill...and if the problem is a glitch between 300win's publisher and himself, they'd obviously have nothing at all to do with that. So we should probably keep DL&Q out of this altogether.

FWIW, I was once owed composer royalties by BMG record club for six or seven years; when I finally got in touch with them it turned out they'd tried to send me checks but had an out-of-date address and no contact info for me. So they just let the royalties accumulate until they heard from me. Once I gave them my current address I had a check for $2000 within a week. Maybe 300win's case will prove to be a similar communication breakdown and nothing more...wouldn't that be nice?

[ryanfbaker]

I am disappointed in SugarHill and DL both and will boycott their label and performances til they do you right.
Now now...it looks like there might be light at the end of the tunnel, thanks to ryanfbaker's information and help. 300win's inability to get answers from Sugar Hill might just be because of their recent move. Hope so anyway.

And now that we know that 300win's song has a publisher other than himself, maybe the problem lies there after all, as ryanfbaker says, rather than with Sugar Hill.

But in any event, I seriously doubt that Doyle Lawson and the other members of Quicksilver (past or present) are parties to this matter at all. Of course I'm in no position to know, but it would be most unusual for recording artists to have any direct influence on a label's payment policies, even if the fault does lie with Sugar Hill...and if the problem is a glitch between 300win's publisher and himself, they'd obviously have nothing at all to do with that. So we should probably keep DL&Q out of this altogether.

FWIW, I was once owed composer royalties by BMG record club for six or seven years; when I finally got in touch with them it turned out they'd tried to send me checks but had an out-of-date address and no contact info for me. So they just let the royalties accumulate until they heard from me. Once I gave them my current address I had a check for $2000 within a week. Maybe 300win's case will prove to be a similar communication breakdown and nothing more...wouldn't that be nice?
I agree that this is *definitely* not any fault of Doyle and the Boys.

[ApK]

"As far as suing goes, I don't believe in doing that."

I hope you mean "in this case, yet."
It seems a bit odd to be operating within the the system, but to be unwilling to use the mechanisms that system provides for correcting wrongs.

It's one thing to reject frivolous or knee-jerk litigiousness, but it's another to be unwilling to seek justice within the system when truly appropriate.
If it turns out that someone IS in fact cheating you, wouldn't the principled action be to hold them accountable, to protect others, if not yourself?

[300win]

This is an update on this post. First of all let me say thanks to all who posted here with advise and info. Using some of that I was sucessfull in finally getting mechanical royalties for my song as recorded by the original Doyle Lawson and QuickSilver band on the original release. It has been a long process that was very frustrating. It is not a great amount, but is enough to supply me in strings for a very, very long time. Again I want to say thanks to all of you.

[Red Henry]

Congratulations. Good work. We're really glad to hear it.

Red

[ryanfbaker]

300win, I'm glad you were able to get this all settled.

[mandomick]

Feels a lot better than just "rolling over" doesn't it? Good for you!