Carbon fiber case

[Brent Willis]

Anybody hear any updates on the New Carbon Fiber cases? Any pictures of the interiors yet?

[Brent Willis]

Big Joe...where are you? Any news yet?

[Kevin K]

Did anyone see Joe's cases at SPBGMA

[Kevin K]

Big Joe any updates?

[mando83]

I wanted to buy one recently but because of the increased price, I had to back away. But it's mainly because of the exchange rate, the US Dollar isn't worth nothing anymore. We sent money to my cousin in Germany for her birthday, sent $100 US Dollars and it was only about $50 Euros for her. It use to be the other way around.

I'd like one of these cases and think it is what I need as a traveling musician, but as a traveling musician there's just not that much money to pay over $800 for a case. What do you do?

[G. Fisher]

Last time I saw Mike Marshall he was carrying his Loar in a Travelite. You can get one of those for about $50.

[boatman]

A question: Is the use of carbon fiber for an instrument case really necessary? Most of the weight in a reinforced plastic structure is the plastic (resin, whether epoxy or polyester). Yes, a carbon fiber reinforced object can be made stonger (ie. aircraft wing), but how strong does an instrument case need to be? Is this just a case of marketing, or are there real world advatages to carbon fiber in this application? Regards

[G. Fisher]

What would make a Travelite high-end?

[Kevin K]

A high price tag, and let's hope that doesn't happen.

[Mandobar]

i think the modern cases were about as close to high end travelite. unfortunately economics forced them out of the game.

[G. Fisher]

I think you're right Mary. And I think that a layer of hard plastic like on the top of the Modern cases would be one addition that would make the Travelite a little better.

[mandroid]

Gator and saga's cases are ABS vacuum formed shells.
like caltons in teardrop shape , would be pretty light weight.
Fibreglass is a thermosetting catalyzed resin.
one is a sheet of plastic heated and set into a vacuum mold to cool, as such many more parts can be made in a given amount of time.

the other is hand laid up in a room temperature mold where the fabric is impregnated with resin,, the air-bubbles removed from wet resin soaked fabric, and the chemical reactions of catalysts heat the resins,,which when cured form a solid .

oodles of more effort involved,

Carbon fiber comes from Natural Gas.

[Ivan Kelsall]

As an ex-Aerospace engineer who specialised in Carbon-Kevlar laminated construction for ove 16 years,may i point out that although strong,CARBON ONLY composite items lack much IMPACT strength. That's the reason the Kevlar comes into it & why bullet proof vests are made from Kevlar NOT Carbon.
If the new cases had a layer or two of Kevlar in them,then the impact strength would be improved to a degree,but such cases are still prone to de-lamination if they receive a really hard knock. The trouble is that you don't see the damage & it can only be determined by Ultrasonic Bond Testing.
A Carbon case such as we're talking about,will be excellent as long as it's protected against impact damage.Therefor,if i was buying one myself,i'd just get a good outer cover for it & be VERY careful with it.
Techniques for the manufacture of carbon composite items have probably come a long way since my time in Aerospace composites,but have a look on the 'net at the testing of carbon components for Aerospace & the basic problems are still there.
In no way am i knocking the new cases,just airing a note of caution. I still maintain that the strongest composite material for musical instrument cases is what we used to call
''Chopped-strand'' glass cloth in a resin matrix. The strands are totally intertwined in the resin & there are NO laminations to separate. That's the way the old Mark Leaf cases were made & as a previous owner of a Banjo case made by them,i can testify to it's strength
(& unfortunately,it's weight).
The best cases i think would be made from high impact Polycarbonate sheet,(think Police riot sheilds here)combined with an expanded foam core. I don't know the cost of 'standard'
Polycarb.sheet - the Aircraft type we used was $1,200 for a 6 ft x 8 ft sheet of 3mm thick stuff,but that was probably due to it's FST (Flame,Smoke & Toxicity) properties.
Thinking about it,the 'standard' ABS moulded plastic cases would be much improved if they had a foam core lining & a thin inner shell to help absorb any impact. What we all really need to do it to be extra careful with our instruments even if they are in a case,whatever it's made from. The instruments can still be damaged if dropped or banged too hard.
Just my 2 pence worth,
Saska

[Mandobar]

Modern Case company closed their doors several years ago. since then the cases have become quite scarce. if i remember the ad correctly they had several layers of plastic, foam, etc.......

i believe that someone said the new Pegasus USA cases were going to be priced around $900.

[Big Joe]

The new Pegasus case is now ready for orders. They will begin being shipped by the first of the month. The cost is $750.00 US plus freight. The cases are carbon fibre with a foam core. The mandolin is suspended so it does not touch the case itself. The only points that touch are the back near the tailpiece and rim and the neck. On the top a piece of foam secures the top at the headstock and the tailpiece so it cannot move. The case is extremely light, but extremely strong. Our prototype has been shipped all over in the belly of an airplance with a mandolin inside and there is not damage to the case and none to the mandolin. It was checked as luggage so we could see what happens.

I will be happy to answer any questions and you can contact me for information on purchasing one. Thank you.

[pegasuscases]

Hi there chaps - it's been one of the main things that happened in the last couple of years. The change in the value of the dollar against a lot of other currencies.

The actual price of the F case a couple of years ago was GBP UK £350 plus ninety UK shipping via UPS, and this hasn't changed since then. The dollar slipped from $1.50 / pound to a little over two dollars to the pound since then. That's on the face of it a change of 25% near-enough.

Pegasus is still quite busy with orders but less US sales and more elsewhere.

I'm still making extra cases in interesting colours (non-standard) for stock if I have any space in production. That's why that Tangerine case is up in the classifieds. Same price as always - just more expensive for you guys over there sadly. I'd love to sell you tons of cases for next to nothing but ..... nuff said eh?

Expect input from Bob D about the progress of the new CF case when he has something to say. He's already said it'll be on mandolincafe first.

Bye for now
Sam

[mandroid]

So the CF case will be about the same price as the
UK FG case with weak currency exchange rate dollar to pound sterling for shipping and purchase.

No $350 case is attempted , Eastmasn still has the affordable fibereglas case market to themselves,

[Bob Denton]

Our prototype has over 15,000 airmiles on it, both Continental and South West with no damage nor any to the instrument. In fact, the instrument was in tune when removed after each flight.

The advantage of a light case is the minimum amount of mass and kinetic energy transferred to the instrument. That is why the Travelite works so well. The carbon "Peg" is significantly lighter than the overseas version. It will not be built like a brick s***house but with our unique, user cusomizable interior, we (Joe, Sam and myself) believe it will protect the instrument better than anything on the market.

We will only be building 100 caseswhich will be assembled in Nashville. We hope to have zero lead time once we start production.

Cya!

Bob

[mandroid]

Like to see the photos of the nuevo interior .


were the airmiles in checked luggage, and rough
handling that have done damage in other situations observed?
like falling off the conveyor just outside the loading hatch, and hitting the tarmac, and being thrown between luggage handers, but not caught?

[G. Fisher]

Just a thought here. Couldn't you cover the Travelite with something like garage floor epoxy and have a harder outer shell without adding much weigh?

[Big Joe]

The case was checked as luggage and treated just like any other luggage. It got NO special treatment.

The fiberglass case from Eastman is not even comparable to the Pegasus USA case, and it is not intended to be. They are good cases for the money and for what they are, but not the same animal.

Again, if you have any questions just PM me and I will be happy to answer as quickly as I can.

[mandroid]

Greg, not just garage floor [as seen on tV?]
there is Marine epoxy as well,
{you know, boats and such}
[ sold by the gallon, if needed or pint 4:1 with catalyst ]
a possibility to mix in pigments as you stir in the catalyst to colorize stuff,
suppose it would be a nylon-epoxy composite then.

[G. Fisher]

Greg, not just garage floor [as seen on tV?]
there is Marine epoxy as well,
{you know, boats and such} a possibility to mix in pigments as you stir in the catalyst to colorize stuff,
suppose it would be a nylon-epoxy composite then,
Yeah, it could be any type of epoxy. I would think there is some type of epoxy to fit the application. I'm off the Home Depot for some plumbing parts so I'm going to look at some epoxies too.

[Brent Willis]

I've left several messages thru the cafe for Big Joe with no response. Don't know what I'm doing wrong. Big Joe how can I reach you to make an order? I'd love to see some interior pictures.

[Steve Ostrander]

OK, so it survived the baggage handlers, but what about the gorilla?

[Big Joe]

MBW52...
For some reason I have not recieved an e-mail from you. Here is my e-mail address to see if it is the one you used. bigjoev@comcast.net

I will be happy to answer any questions. I do not have interior photos yet, but it will be soon. I can take orders any time. I look forward to hearing from you.

[Bob A]

I've been strongly in favor of excessive case protection for 40 years, ever since I bought my first good guitar. At that time I spent $150 on a Mark Leaf case for a guitar that cost $300. Some folks thought I was nuts, but it's taken a fair amount of abuse and done its job. The case is now worth about 500 bucks, and the guitar about 2K. So there's some compensation, I suppose.

Since then I've gotten a Calton and a Pegasus for my mandos. Overkill perhaps, but I don't have to worry about whether the instrument will be OK, which makes it money well spent. I still vividly remember the cheesy latch popping open on my H4 case (factory original) and the mandola flopping earthward. We all survived, but it was a close thing.

Since then I've had occasion to get into violins, and went ahead and bought a Musafia case for my granddaughter's violin. Again the case was a sizeable fraction of the cost of the whole outfit, but I don't have to worry whether anything will happen to the fiddle. (I suggest youall take a look at the musafia.com website. They've seemingly done a lot of research on protecting the contents of their cases, and I'm quite impressed. I had thought to get a carbon-fiber case originally, but there seemed to be a number of drawbacks: lack of thermal protection, lack of accessory space, and as it turns out, the darn things melt when in contact with heat sources. While I'd hope the grand-d would have more sense than to put her fiddle case next to something hot enough to melt her pantyhose, she's 15, an age not known for a lot of common sense).

I'm not convinced that CF is the way to go for cases, but certainly anything is better than the original Gibson cases; they keep the dust off, but mandolins rattle around in them like dried peas in a pod. I hate taking them outside. ANd 80 year old hardware that was cheap to begin with does not inspire comfidence. Just looking at the fittings on Calton, Pegasus, and, yes, my Eastman bowlback cases, I can see that they'll be going strong long after I've gone to a hole in the ground. Since I feel I'm more a caretaker than an owner of these instruments, it makes me feel good.

All the money in the world spent on feelin' good. (Who sang that?)

[Mandobar]

here's my justification- coming down the stairs one day i dropped my then brand new Brentrup housed in a calton.........down one flight i watched as it bounced off the wall and then skip across the landing and hit the front door.......case scratched mando fine........nerves shattered......but no real damage- unless you count the wallboard, (a little spackle and a little paint goes a long way).

one of the guys over on the 13thfret.com tells a story of how he was sitting on an airplane and watched his guitar in a calton case fall out of the cargo hold with some other baggage and skid across the runway as the plane was taxi-ing to take off. guitar fine. case shot..........but it held up well enough to save the guitar.

[Salty Dog]

Both of my BRWs live in Caltons and I swear by them as I have been through a few mishaps, including a recent serious auto accident. #Major damage to the car, but passengers and mandolins survived with minor bumps and bruises (to us and the mandolin cases). #The other driver got a ticket for failure to yield. #Yes, they are heavy (11 pounds of case for two pounds of mandolin), but I would never consider flying with my mandolin(s) in anything else. #To be fair, I have never seen or owned a Pegasus or Price case but I wouldn't ship a $50.00 mandolin in a Canadian shaped hardshell case as I have received two mandolins shipped in them that have had headstock denting from the ridge that joins the top and bottom of these cases.

[mandroid]

The external color going to be offered in a lighter color ?There is some white finished fiber i saw in the Italian trade show pictures of race bikes, but of course an opaque color put into the mold 1st is how the same stuff can be given as many colors as the fiberglass polyester composites.

But maybe that would be as unpopular as a tattoo nobody would ever see.
If i were going for the upgraded material it would be for its property improvements without needing it to be visible .

a Mix CF with a black top that one doesn't see the fiber weave in it has appeal also for the same sort of reason.


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[first string]

I'd also be interested to know if you will be offering the case in a lighter color (white or cream). Also, will there be an A model case?

[Brent Willis]

Who has seen the interior of one of these new Carbon Fiber cases? Has anyone ordered one and recieved it yet? I haven't seen any feedback on the new cases yet! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[mandroid]

Was Wondering about that myself, perhaps Opening the Store took over all the energy, and it's been back burnered.

[Coy Dog guys (I surmise from reading their statements),
didn't find the Asian contractor, they were seeking, to do the Manufacturing work]

[Big Joe]

One of my partners has been involved in moving from Santa Cruz CA to Tuscon AZ and it has deflected his focus for a few weeks. I expect to have the first ones in my hands and ready to go by the early part of June. As soon as I have one in hand I will photo it and put it on the cafe. We will have them in our store.

[Steve Perry]

The new Pegasus case is now ready for orders. #They will begin being shipped by the first of the month. #The cost is $750.00 US plus freight. #The cases are carbon fibre with a foam core. #The mandolin is suspended so it does not touch the case itself. #The only points that touch are the back near the tailpiece and rim and the neck. #On the top a piece of foam secures the top at the headstock and the tailpiece so it cannot move. #The case is extremely light, but extremely strong. #Our prototype has been shipped all over in the belly of an airplance with a mandolin inside and there is not damage to the case and none to the mandolin. #It was checked as luggage so we could see what happens.


Here's a statement that Big Joe posted in February. In February! Sorry Big Joe, but where's the credibility?
Jeez!...Lighten up! #It's a new venture with a new product. #Things happen. #Unless you've bought and paid for one of the cases, then I don't think you have any business questioning Big Joe's credibility.

[JEStanek]

I find Joe's follow up post informative enough to be credible. I've not ordered, nor plan to order, one but, knowing how forthright Joe is, I bet anyone who ordered in February will have had proper communications regarding production delays.

Sure, Joe can defend himself and I bet if he's as busy as my wife was when she opened her vet clinic, he probably doesn't have time to read and respond every thread here. Especially ones he didn't start.

Jamie

[TomTyrrell]

Frankly, I'm wondering if there isn't some ulterior motive here. Not exactly an unbiased thread participant.

Posted: Feb. 17 2008, 16:44
"...Price is about $850 US. I'm sorry, but that's getting a bit ridiculous... "

Posted: Feb. 17 2008, 17:47
"...There are certainly great mandolin cases being offered for way less than Calton or Peg... "

Posted: Feb. 17 2008, 20:03
"...It seems to me that the exterior of a case can be made of damn-near anything so long as the interior has enough high-quality protection and support for the instrument..."

Feb. 20 2008, 20:37
"...I'm encouraging all mandolinists out there to SERIOUSLY consider why they feel compelled to spend upwards of $600 on a mandolin case..."

[Big Joe]

I have no beef with Glassweb. I think it's an honest question, though I don't think my credibility is the issue. I have tried my best to give the best information I can on the progress of the project. I don't build the parts. They are going to be assembled in Nashville from US parts, but I can't do anything unless I get the parts. While I was originally informed they would be ready earlier, life sometimes brings setbacks and that is what we faced. I think you will agree they are worth the wait once you see them and can get one.

No one has been kept out of the loop on the project that has any involvement. If wishes were fishes, we'd all have a bucket full and I wish it was already on the market. Believe me, no body wants it out there more than ME!.

I will continue to provide all the information I get as I get it. I thank you and appreciate your patience.