Michael kelly legacy festival pack mando

[steveprince]

Hey folks -

This is my first post here. Thanks for the helpful forum.

A question: I have a Michael Kelly Legacy Festival Pack Mando that I won (free) from Elderly Instruments. It's the low end Kelly...not the Legacy plus or Deluxe...it's the one that comes in the pack with a strap and a tuner and some picks (hooray!). I've played guitar for a long time, and flatpicked bluegrass for awhile. Now I'm trying to expand into the mando. Here's my question: how bad is the mandolin I'm using? The tone is uninspiring, but my real issues is that it takes a TON of left hand force to play anything. I've never played a decent mandolin, so I'm not quite sure exactly how bad this Kelly is. Has anyone played one of these?

A related question: Is it worth trading up to a better low-end Mando? A Kentucky 700 or something like it? At some point, I'd like to buy a decent mandolin -- a Collings MT, perhaps. For now, however, I don't have that much money to spend. Should I stick it out with the Kelly, or spend a couple hundred more dollars to get a better bad mandolin to tide me over?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[Martin Jonas]

It shouldn't be that bad, if set up correctly. #Do you know if Elderly set it up for you before seinding it out? #As you are a beginner to mandolin, your assessment of tone and playability may be unreliable. #In my experience, guitar players coming to mandolin always complain about excessive string tension and left hand force needed for clean fretting. #They also tend to sound fairly thin when trying to play the mandolin with a guitar-like flatpicking technique. #So, for a more objective assessment of your mando, I suggest you hand it to an experienced bluegrass mandolin picker -- as you're already playing bluegrass it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find one. #If he agrees with your assessment, a setup may be in order (and is probably a good idea in any case, even if Elderly have already done some).

Martin

Learn to play it first.
There'll be plenty of time later to decide if you want to spend your money.

[steelbuddha]

Everything the other posters said, and...

I bought a Legacy Plus to serve as a "road/beater" instrument. My luthier said she recommends a tailpiece upgrade on every MK that comes into her shop. I ordered an Allen tailpiece (a lot cheaper from the manufacturer than from Stew-Mac), she did a setup, and it's now a pretty decent instrument. The tone went from weak and buzzy with the stock tailpiece to rich and loud with the new one.

If your action isn't right, pay for a good setup. Lighter gauge strings might not hurt, either.

[JEStanek]

Steve,
Welcome to the Café. I suspect it sounds like a mandolin. With a good set up I bet you can learn to play a lot of stuff on it. Then as your budget and desires increase, you can move on to pricier instruments. Definately look into a good set up for action and intonation. That will go a long way. The high tension and double strings really are different from a guitar's feel.

Don't look a gift mando in the soundhole too hard, as it were...
Enjoy it.
Jamie

[steveprince]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. You said just what I had hoped you would, actually. I'm having a lot of fun messing around with it. I'll keep at it.

One question -- everyone keeps telling me to get a set-up. Any advice on where to go? I found a great acoustic guitar set-up guy in my area (New Haven, CT) once, but he's got a serious wait list and may not deal with mandolins. Where does one find a mandolin set-up person?

[gnelson651]

Find a mandolin luthier if you can. I have never had any luck letting a guitar set-up guy properly set up a mandolin. Its just not the same as a guitar. Usually the neck relief is set wrong and the action at the nut is too high.

[JEStanek]

If you have any friends who play mando they can give it a look over first. #If it's in need of nut/bridge work try and find someone. #One of the best (will cost ~$150 + shipping) is Stephen Perry and his #Mandovoodoo. (http://www.mandovoodoo.com/) #It now gives 5 years of tune ups too...

Here is a thread describing it (in addition to Stephen's website) to see I'm not alone in my praise (read here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=41425;hl=mandovoodoo)) .
Or, you can look elsewhere locally. Or use the Builder database on the cafe to find another builder locally.
Jamie

[ab4usa]

You mentioned that you felt your left hand was having to work too hard. Just for fun you might trave to the Acoustic Music shop in Gilford (1238 Boston Post Rd., Guilford, CT 06437) and experience higher end mandolins. You may find they are easier to play, however you may also find that due to the increased string tension on a mandolin, they aren't far off.

[Steve Ostrander]

Steelbuddha, I'm curious about your comment, or rather your luthier's comment about the tailpiece on the MKs. Does she truly mean "every MK that comes into her shop?" or was she referring to the old pressed steel tailpieces? I thought that the newer cast TP was an improvement-at least MK claims they are.

A lot of posters here don't believe that tailpiece changes make a significant difference in sound, but do make string changes easier. I've never changed out a TP so I can't comment; but I do have a Dragonfly, and now I'm wondering if a TP change would make a difference?

[gnelson651]

I had a MK Legacy Deluxe that I ended up trading because it sounded so bad. I had first taken it to the local music store where a guitar setup guy worked on it. The only improvement was he removed the fret buzz but the action was high. Later I took to a luthier friend who gave it once over and helped the action somewhat but no improvement in the sound or volume ( my friend said the guitar guy setup the neck like an electric guitar).

So I traded the MK for an Eastman 514. The store owner I traded to said that after he put on an Allen TP and had it setup properly (the action was too high at the nut), he really improved the sound. In fact, he said it was one of the best sounding MK's he had in for a trade.

While I was a bit disappointed I didn't keep the MK and had sent it in for a Voodoo treatment, I am happy with my Eastman (I really like the sound of an oval-hole). I still got a good deal on the Eastman and the trade.

Moral of the story: Be sure that your mandolin is properly setup by someone who knows how to do this. You can buy an Allen TP blem from Randy Allen (http://www.allenguitar.com/tpcs_sale.htm) and save a few bucks.

[Steve Ostrander]

Interesting. I have a Dragonfly that was setup by a pro and plays well, but it isn't as loud as my KY or Eastman. I'm surprised that the TP would make that much difference. Seems like the bridge would be the logical place to start. I might just try the Allen TP and see what happens.

The irony is that that my km855 has the best sound and volume, but the worst fit and finish of the three.

[Folkmusician.com]

I sell More Michael Kelly's than anything so I end up setting these up every day. #I read a lot of posts about the inconsistent tone with these, but I tend to think this is mostly inconsistent setups, age of strings, etc.. #I do notice differences in the mandolins, but when they are setup the same, the tonal differences are not huge. #

I have not seen a lot of Michael Kelly's that were sold by other dealers, so I am partially going on assumption here. #I think most dealer's setup consist of adjusting the truss rod, string height at the nut and bridge and that is about it. I am not convinced that the majority of dealers are even doing this much work or maybe they are just not doing it correctly. #

If the action is a little too high, this should not degrade your tone. #It will give you intonation issues due to the strings going sharp when you have to push them down so far.

The things that the standard quick setup are missing is the fit of the string grooves, the ramping on the strings, the fit of the bridge and tailpiece, and how well the frets are seated. No one thing is critical. Combined, these things will make a difference.

The bridge is going to be the most important. This can be misleading. Just getting it to look like it is matched to the top does not guarantee that it is getting a solid connection. How well the adjustment posts are seated in the bridge foot matters. The string grooves are important. The mass of the bridge... #There is a lot going on here.

Poorly seated frets are something most setups do not address, yet this affects both playability and tone.

The environment has a lot to do with the tone. The mandolin should be kept at a relatively stable humidity level and should not have any setup work done if it is over or under humidified.

A luthier that regularly works with mandolins should be able to do a reasonable setup that touches on all of these things in 2 hours. Going further than this may become cost prohibitive for your average import.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[steelbuddha]

madformandos: "Steelbuddha, I'm curious about your comment, or rather your luthier's comment about the tailpiece on the MKs. Does she truly mean "every MK that comes into her shop?" or was she referring to the old pressed steel tailpieces? I thought that the newer cast TP was an improvement-at least MK claims they are."

Sorry to take so long to revisit this thread. She says the newer ones are better but not great. However, we were recently talking about how much extra setup time the MKs and Kentuckys require to get them right, as compared to more expensive instruments. The less expensive ones require a lot more fret work to get them to 100 percent, and she won't settle for less. The shop loses money on the extra time and attention she has to pay to new instruments, for which there's no additional setup fee. (Of course, she does setups on the $25 ukuleles they sell; she's kind of compulsive.)

I can only report on my own experience with the MK Legacy Plus, and comparing its original tailpiece to the Allen tailpiece we retrofitted. And of course my evidence is anecdotal and subjective, not scientific. In my opinion, it went from an okay mando to a "big" instrument as a result of the change. Considering the instrument was snagged for $300 on eBay, I'm pretty happy with it.

[Tim2723]

Hi Robert. Thanks for the reply. No, I didn't delete my question, I simply moved it to a new thread to avoid hijacking this one. I thought that was more polite. You can find the new thread in General Discussions entitled Why do we need set ups?

Thanks again!