Old tuners, new problem

[John L]

I posted a request a while back for some old tuners for my 1916 Gibson A-1. Received lots of great feedback - good article from Mike on replacing tuner buttons (unfortunately the buttonless tuners offered were not for the bass side, which I needed).

Good news - found a great set of tuners. Thanks Glen! They are exactly right, from the plate shape right down to the tuner buttons. Apparently they came from a Vega mandolin-banjo, which could be the reason for the...

Bad news - the posts are too short. The original treble side are 1-1/8" long. The replacements are about 7/8" long. They barely go through the headstock. I tried the posts from the incorrect set, and they are slightly too large to go through the plate. Rather than mess with the plate, I am thinking I should try to replace the posts.

Any suggestions?

I attached the same photo that I had attached to my original post.

Thanks for any assistance!

You may be able to use the posts from your old tuners ...
See if they "seat" with the pinion gears of the replacement tuners and fasten them with the machine screws from the old tuners.

[John L]

No, that is what I tried to explain. The odd set that I have on the bass side have the longer posts, but they are slightly too large to go through the hole in the plate. They are not exactly the same as the other posts in any event, and they are also fairly old - once I solve this I will have ane extra treble side set from a c1930 mandolin that may be of use to someone. Note the current bass side is an upside-down treble set.

[8ch(pl)]

Hi John, glad that you got the tuners. I think you may be able to cut them off, dress the ends and have a section cut and welded in to make up the difference. You would have to dismantle the posts from the tuners. The added section should be hidden in the wood of the headstock.

Another option is to have new posts made. Either option will have to be done by a competant machinist.

I have a Vega mandolin banjo and the posts do not stick up very high above the face of the headstock veneer. In fact, I just measured it at 7/32". It may just have been how they were made in those days, perhaps Waverley offered them in different post lengths. I believe these were made by Waverley.

Too bad they don't work. You may have to get some machining done, but sometimes that's what's needed to keep it to the period of the instrument. Let us know how it goes.

Best wishes

[John L]

Thanks for the message Glen, and sorry for not getting back to you to let you know the tuners arrived. It is just the posts that are too long, so no machining should be needed if I can find something close. The original ones I have measure 1-1/8" - the mandolin banjo ones are only 7/8". The plates and the buttons are identical to the original one, so all I need are 4 posts that are 1-1/8" long. I found about 200 of them at 2 music stores today, unfortunately none were right - I will keep looking. I now have the parts that are hard to find!

(I am calling the part that goes through the headstock, with a hole for the string, a "post.")

[Rob Grant]

John,

Why not plane a bit of wood off the back of the head stock?

[John L]

"Why not plane a bit of wood..."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Rob Grant]

Sorry John. I just re-read your original post. I see the instrument in question is a Gibson A-1. I thought you said the instrument was a banjo mandolin. Considering the banjo mandolins I've run across in my distant past and the tone they produce, I've got no qualms with making major modifications to them. I've actually considered turning the next one that comes my way into a funky tennis racquet or novelty mirror frame.<G>

[John L]

FYI, I just measured and I have posts that extend 3/16" from the face of the peghead, less the thickness of the grommet. This means the hole is just clear of the grommet. Haven't had a chance to poke around for more posts, but am wondering if old, longer ones are going to be hard to find?

[8ch(pl)]

John, if you can find posts the right length that are thicker, they could be turned on a lathe to the right diameter. It all depends on how they mount to the gear. Even made from scratch from stainless shouldn't be too much trouble.

Rob, you can always throw any Mandolin banjos you get my way. Or parts. I have a nice one now that I had to modify to get a good neck angle.

[Rob Grant]

Glen,

"Throw" is the key phrase here!<G>

Seriously, banjo mandolins in poor condition are fairly common in the rural areas of North Queensland. It seems that they must have been popular (circa 1930s) at the local community halls that are found in almost every shire. I imagine that before electric amplification these little hybrids were the "duck's guts" at the weekend dances. Almost every banjo mandolin that is brought to me was made in England.

[John L]

Glen - I have damaged one I can "throw" your way. Needs a new skin and some TLC. It's incognito (no name).

[8ch(pl)]

I'll be happy to try it John. I'll pay postage.

Rob, Queensland is a long throw.

[John L]

In the mail Glen, don't worry about the postage. Just so you don't get your hopes up, it's nothing special. If the tennis racket or mirror frame doesn't work out, maybe you can make it into a soup ladle or vegetable steamer.

[8ch(pl)]

I'm Glad I sent you them tuners John.

Thanks, but i will likely send you the postage, it will have to be more than the tuners were.

I can probably get it going. I may try to make a 4 string melody banjo neck, tuned as a mandolin. Who knows.

[John L]

Don't worry about it Glen. Postage was reasonable, as I didn't ask for faster delivery. Those tuners are great, and I am going to see a guy in Hamilton tomorrow that thinks he has correct posts. Enjoy! (and, as I said, don't get your hopes up for the banjolin/tennis racket)

[8ch(pl)]

Got it yesterday, 4 days not bad. Thanks very much John, I think I will be able to do some work and get it going again. I am waiting since the 2nd for the parts from Stewart MacDonald.

John, did you find the posts for the tuners in Hamilton?

Thanks again. Fun, fun ,fun

[John L]

Yes, I got the posts in Hamilton. Tried to post a picture but had a problem.

[8ch(pl)]

That's great, you are good to go.

Last night I finished redoing some repairs to my Vega Style K Mandolin banjo. I got it in the fall of 06 and had a local Luthier to do a setup. It needed a neck reset which he did not do, he took a banjo bridge and sanded the feet down to almost nothing to get a sort of action (still high). He made a new bone nut. He lost the tailpiece cover, I am upset about this, the instrument was intact except for a missing bridge since 1918.

I shimmed the neck so the angle pointed down away from the body instead of up. Then I made a new bridge from a piece of Beech. The instrument had an awful buzz which I cured by an .012in aluminum shim under the nut. I ordered a Dowel Stick Endpin Bolt from Stewart MacDonald. Now it is a player.

I will start on the mandolin that you sent me shortly. I am thinking of making it into a 4 string strung with Nylon Strings to give a Banjo-Uke sound. I want to keep Mandolin tuning.

I am glad you got your tuners working and want to say thanks again for the instrument.

[John L]

I have tried a few times to post a photo of the restored mandolin, but I am having trouble.

[John L]

Here is a photo of the installed tuners. Note that thereplacements are an excellent match, but have two extra holes. I am trying to decide whether to add screws. Thanks again to everyone that offered advice and assistance.

[John L]

This should be a better photo:

[8ch(pl)]

That's a nice Mandolin John, I often thought I would like an A-3 Whiteface, but have never been able to justify the expenditure as yet.

Bonne Chance