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bulldog
Dec-27-2007, 4:48pm
What do most of you folks use to level frets on a mandolin? Im considering the 6 inch Fret leveling file sold by StewMac, but now think it may be too big? What works for you guys?

Gail Hester
Dec-27-2007, 5:21pm
I use a plane that covers the entire length of the board. #I have a six inch fret plane but never use it. #Longer is better.

sunburst
Dec-27-2007, 6:14pm
If I need a file, I use a "plane ol'" flat file, checked for straightness before purchase, but usually all I need is a straight-milled wooden sanding block that I made. It's just a little shorter than the width of a sheet of sandpaper so that a quarter sheet of paper hangs over the ends of the sanding block slightly.

For guitars, or other longer-that-mandolin fingerboards, I sometimes use a #5 plane body a la Frank Ford, and a half sheet of sandpaper cut lengthwise.

Occasionally, I use a "diamond stone". You know, one of those sharpening "stones" that is really a flat piece of steel with industrial diamond dust affixed to the surface.

Michael Lewis
Dec-28-2007, 2:13am
Yes, longer is better for leveling frets. I use one of those old fret leveling planes made by Ken Donnell. It is a piece of MDF faced with a piece of float glass, it is about 14" long. Some folks use the side of a carpenter's level faced with self stick abrasive paper.

If you use a shorter implement for leveling the frets you will need to pay very close attention to keep everything even. This is where you need both skill and experience to stay out of trouble. It is considerably easier to use a longer tool for this.

Keith Newell
Dec-28-2007, 4:14am
Hello, this is Keith Newell. I'm a small time builder but long time (30+ years) Journeyman Machinist, tool and die maker, Model Maker, shop lead, shop Foreman and CNC programmer. I think a 12" smooth mill file is the best file you can own. It will remove a decent amount of material on both wood or metal and leave a nice fine finish. I have about 50 files on my wall in front of the bench but the mill smooth file is used the most. I like Simonds or Nicholsons for this file. Don't buy the black oxide one...(looks black). Buy the plain one, it's sharper.
You will find that 2nd cut or bass-tard cuts remove a tiny bit more material but you have a pattern of finish that needs some major attention to. The mill smooth file leaves such a fine finish if you practice a bit and get your wrist stiffness and hand tension correct that sandpaper can barely match it. This is from 30+ years of deburring parts, hand application of a specified radius callout on a blue print or just deburring so you can put it in the mill vise for the next operation.
Thought you might like to hear from someone with over 200 files and 30 of them this file both new down to very used. The very used ones work good for final fret dressing and the side angles on the frets. I like to take an old used one and hit it on the belt sander on the corners so it doesn't dig in. Then it floats over the frets without digging in if you screw up.
#Keith Newell
http://www.newellmandolin.com

Keith Newell
Dec-28-2007, 4:17am
I love this site but its funny that I have to add a "-" between bas tard because it's xxxx'd out. I guess it's expected. At work I can't search for 1/4-27 NPT stainless nipples with out being blocked and thats a standard item.
Keith

uncle ken
Dec-29-2007, 12:49am
I bought the Stew Mac file with the nice wooden grip that runs the length of the file then I bought the crowning file that has medium on one side and small on the other so I could use it on guitar or mandolin. For someone like me who's not a repairman or luthier but who likes to work on his own stuff, these were pretty easy to use.

On this same subject, what is the best direction and motion when using the leveling file? A picture would help.

Michael Lewis
Dec-29-2007, 1:08am
Most if not all cutting tools work on only one direction. This includes files. So, for using files,planes, knives, shaves, etc., stroke for the cut, then lift the tool and set it down for the next stroke. Do not draw the tool backwards. Direction of movement for the diamond coated and abrasive tools is not critical.

Dale Ludewig
Dec-29-2007, 9:57am
I use what sounds like Michael uses. I got it some years ago from StewMac. 1/4" glass bonded to MDF with a wooden handle. Clamp things on the top to hold the sandpaper that is put on the working surface. I think it's about 14" inches long, as ML says, and it's about 2 or 2 1/2" wide. I get my sandpaper at an auto body shop. I use 320 grit. Then crosswise I use diamond crown files, then use the StewMac files that lock into a handle, but I only use them to hold finer sandpaper, if that makes any sense. I go to 600 grit and then use the little burnishing wheels that fit into a Dremel or Foredom handpiece. They are available from StewMac. Unfortunately, as far as I know, StewMac no longer sells the long glass piece Michael and I are talking about. Maybe there's another source?

It's imperative that you use a black marker on the top of the frets before you start any operation. Once the black is gone from everything, especially when you're going the length of the fretboard, you're flat. Stop then! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Stephanie Reiser
Dec-29-2007, 10:24am
It's imperative that you use a black marker on the top of the frets before you start any operation. #Once the black is gone from everything, especially when you're going the length of the fretboard, you're flat. #Stop then! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
That is GREAT idea.
THanks Dale!

sunburst
Dec-29-2007, 10:27am
Dale, I seldom use marker ink on frets, but instead use side lighting and look at the reflections on the tops of the frets. I don't consider ink imperative.
I've also started to use 120 grit paper (usually) to level the frets because the rougher surface makes the flats easier to see, and I'm going to re-crown the flat away anyway, so it doesn't need to be smooth.

Uncle Ken, If I understand your question, I mostly go straight with the 'board from end to end, and sometimes a little diagonally. When I'm about done, I'll sometimes throw in a few nearly side to side diagonal strokes on radiused boards to help get rid of the slight "flats" and "humps" that tend to mill into the radius of the frets from the flat sanding block.

uncle ken
Dec-29-2007, 3:45pm
Should there be any adjustment to the truss rod before leveling to compensate for the strings being off?

sunburst
Dec-29-2007, 4:16pm
You want the neck as straight as you can get it, unless you're correcting something by milling the frets. The truss rod, if there is one and if the neck is in good shape, is the usual way to get the neck straight

otterly2k
Dec-29-2007, 4:55pm
I have a related question... Wouldn't using an absolutely flat leveling file --that was as wide as the board-- screw up the frets on a radiused fingerboard? #In essence, wouldn't it flatten the middle section of the fretwires more than the outside edges (relative to the fingerboard)? #So you'd have a curved board but the plane represented by the top edges of the frets would be flat. #I've wondered about this, and why I don't see fret leveling tools with a radius. #Can anyone shed light on this for me?

sunburst
Dec-29-2007, 6:27pm
You have to "roll" the file, sanding block, whatever tool you're using to follow the radius.
There are "radius blocks" available, notably from Stewmac, to which sandpaper can be affixed, but they have to be used in an absolutely straight line to maintain a good simple radius, and if you have a "compound radius" (really a conical shaped 'board) a radius block is no good at all.

The radius of the board vs the flatness of the file is the reasoning behind my earlier statement; "When I'm about done, I'll sometimes throw in a few nearly side to side diagonal strokes on radiused boards to help get rid of the slight "flats" and "humps" that tend to mill into the radius of the frets from the flat sanding block."

otterly2k
Dec-29-2007, 8:32pm
Thanks, John... that's what I thought you meant and also what prompted my question.

Michael Lewis
Dec-30-2007, 1:35am
Dale, black marker? I been using blue. It seems to be the most visible, lots better than red. Years ago I tried black but like the blue better.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

Jim Rowland
Dec-30-2007, 4:16pm
Machinists settled on the cobalt blue dye to capture cutting marks a long time ago. I guess there must be some good reason for that.
Jim

Dale Ludewig
Dec-30-2007, 9:46pm
Ok, Michael. Blue it shall be. Off to the art supply store, I guess. Between you and Jim I guess I'm behind the times. Same principle. You guys are just giving me a hard time. And John is too. He doesn't even use colored markers! I feel inadequate. Perhaps there is a new year's resolution in here somewhere? Happy New Year to All of You! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

sunburst
Dec-30-2007, 10:14pm
As a matter of fact Dale, I've tried black, red, green and blue, but They just don't help me if the light is right.

Happy NY to you too!

bulldog
Jan-02-2008, 1:44pm
Thanks for all the replies, I have to agree with the longer is better school of thought. StewMac sells a 16" fret/fingerboard leveller made of steel. Just apply appropriate sandpaper to the flat surface and your off. Its their professional model. Ordered it today.

buddyellis
Jan-03-2008, 9:54pm
I use a (verified flat) mill file and a #5 stanley with 440 grit paper contact cemented to it. I have about 5 of those old #5's around so...

Yonkle
Jun-26-2008, 1:25am
I also wonder about leveling frets on a radius board. I thought you used a radius sanding block. So what do you do exactly? Slide the flat block side to side?? Or what?
PLEASE any advise here is very appreciated.
ALSO: What do most of you all use after you have leveled the frets to buff them back out??
DO YOU: Alway re-crown the frets after a level?
HOW LONG: Do those diamond crowning files from SM last??
Thanks in advance Yonkle (working #10 and #11)

Stephanie Reiser
Jun-26-2008, 5:21am
I thought you used a radius sanding block. #So what do you do exactly? Slide the flat block side to side?? #Or what?
PLEASE any advise here is very appreciated.
ALSO: What do most of you all use after you have leveled the frets to buff them back out??
DO YOU: Alway re-crown the frets after a level?
I roll my file laterally to follow the radius.
To buff the frets I use finer and finer grits of sand paper and then polish with dremel felt wheel and a polishing compound.
Usually the frets need some recrowning after leveling.