View Full Version : The Gibson Story
Rick Schmidlin
Jun-08-2004, 10:53am
People have told Gibsons Mandolins are hype, especially the one's of the last 30 years. I have only seen a few (beng a newbie) and the workmanship like thier guitar's , spotty. I have seen the Bill Monroe Model and the Master Class both very nice. What I want to find out is Gibson makeing great mandolins or is that a thing of the past?
Rick Schmidlin
Scott Tichenor
Jun-08-2004, 11:24am
Opens microwave, inserts package of Orville.
Redenbacher, not Gibson.
uh Rick where should we start http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Ted Eschliman
Jun-08-2004, 11:31am
PEAR AND GREEN JELLO MOLD
1 (29-32 oz.) can pears
1 (8 oz.) cream cheese
1 (8 oz.) Cool Whip
1 sm. lime Jello
Heat 1 cup pear juice to boiling. Remove from heat and add Jello; set aside. In mixer, mash pears, cream cheese and Cool Whip. Add Jello and pour into mold. Refrigerate overnight
Wesley
Jun-08-2004, 11:33am
Tone Monster - So you're a newbie AND a big Dale Carnegie fan too ?
This is one of those questions that everyone has to decide for themselves. If you've only played few Gibsons - try playing a lot more and then decide for yourself. However if you want to play "my mandolin can beat up your mandolin" then I'm sure you'll find some others who will want to play too.
AlanN
Jun-08-2004, 11:41am
Easy on the saltpeter, please! same for the butter, and wake me when it's over...zzzzz.....
John Flynn
Jun-08-2004, 11:43am
Well, you have started a topic that will probably result in a fight! That doesn't bother me, but I will try not to add fuel to the fire. While I am not a Gibson fan, I will say that they seem to be doing a good job of keeping thier brand's legacy alive by concentrating on thier best selling model, the F-5, and making good mandolins in that tradition. That is thier business strategy and it seems to be working for them. If there is "hype" about Gibson mandolins, I see it as being generated by some, but certainly not all Gibson owners, who seem to need to get public agreement that the extra money they spent was well spent, rather than just being satisfied with thier purchase regardless of public approval or disapproval.
Mandolins are basically a luxury item, in the strict definition that they are something that most of the market does not need to buy. It's easy to see that in any luxury market, there are brand names that depend on percieved status for thier success. The car market has plenty of examples of that, for instance. If you call that "hype" so be it. But if most people who buy a given brand are satisfied with thier purchases, I just call it marketing. Whether such a "luxury brand" status is deserved or not, is purely in the eyes of the beholder/buyer. I do think you can find mandolins of equal, if not better, quality and equal, if not better, price. But it may be worth paying something for the nameplate and the consistency of product. Some people obviously think it is.
Tom C
Jun-08-2004, 11:43am
Come on fells, the guy is new here. #Welcome Rick.
The 60's and 70's were the dog years. 80's and 90's they improved a ton. Today's are the best ones since the '20s.
..<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
...........<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
...................<span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
Walter
Jun-08-2004, 12:28pm
Mandohack,
Is it okay to substitute Cool Whip with Miracle Whip in the Pear and Green Jello Mold Recipe?
Please advise
Scotti Adams
Jun-08-2004, 12:44pm
Come on fells, the guy is new here. #Welcome Rick.
The 60's and 70's were the dog years. 80's and 90's they improved a ton. Today's are the best ones since the '20s.
..<span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
...........<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
...................<span style='color:green'><span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>BRW</span></span>
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Flowerpot
Jun-08-2004, 12:51pm
Howdy, Rick.
What Tom said. A sample Gibson from 30 years ago is a far cry from their current output. What they have been making recently -- at least going back to the 90's, and most definitely now -- has a well deserved reputation for excellence. Their Master Models made this century are fantastic. And no, I don't own one or sell them, I just appreciate good instruments.
Scotti Adams
Jun-08-2004, 12:54pm
..I totally agree with Flowerpot too....
jcs271
Jun-08-2004, 1:46pm
My Ford Truck is faster and will tow more than both my neighbors chevy and dodge trucks! It also has a nicer fit and finish. Did I mention that the engine has a deep throaty growl when you rev it up?
fatt-dad
Jun-08-2004, 1:53pm
I have an Aria that is better than a similar Alvarez. Go figure.
f-d
Big Joe
Jun-08-2004, 2:06pm
I love everybody... I'm staying out of this one http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .
Well since your a newbie I recommend the The Gibson hands down over a BRW. Not for tones sake you understand. It's just that if you're "Thinking about a BRW" you'll spend the rest of every waking moment reading the world's longest thread and won't have any time to practice. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
GVD
Well since your a newbie I recommend the The Gibson hands down over a BRW. Not for tones sake you understand. It's just that if you're "Thinking about a BRW" you'll spend the rest of every waking moment reading the world's longest thread and won't have any time to practice.
Thats why you just need to quit thinking and just go ahead and buy one! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Scotti Adams
Jun-08-2004, 3:26pm
..nope..Im not touchin this one.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Damnation Gulch
Jun-08-2004, 3:36pm
Well since your a newbie I recommend the The Gibson hands down over a BRW. Not for tones sake you understand. It's just that if you're "Thinking about a BRW" you'll spend the rest of every waking moment reading the world's longest thread and won't have any time to practice. #
Thats why you just need to quit thinking and just go ahead and buy one! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Hell, I was intrigued by that behemoth myself!
Brookside
Jun-08-2004, 3:44pm
Wow, Tone Monster...Can't wait to see what your THIRD post is about.
So, I sez to the guy.....
mandough
Jun-08-2004, 7:17pm
I actually really like the sound of the new Gibson mandolins (having not heard too many old ones). #In comparison to some Collings in the same price range, I prefer the Gibsons.
(Uh Oh, here it comes...I can't help myself...please stop me) #But....I am really disappointed in the color choices and finish of some of their mandos. #They look like an airbrushed version of a very nice mandolin. #When I say "airbrushed" I mean that in the "the guy has an airbrushed T-shirt with a monster truck on it" type of way.
There is nothing hand-done about that flat brown finish. #It looks terrible in my honest opinion.
Anybody share this view?
What's the deal Big Joe, we getting anything fancier in the future?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Scotti Adams
Jun-08-2004, 7:23pm
..gulp....I can hear Big Joe now...meez covering my ears. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Uh oh this can get good.. heheh http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
jim simpson
Jun-08-2004, 8:03pm
mandough,
I agree with you on the finish of the F-9. I have heard good things about their sound but I can't get past the look. Now perhaps I'll try one, fall in love with the sound, and go have it refinished as a black top! That could be cool. I would probably add-on an extension to the fingerboard as I don't like the blunt end then I would scoop it to prevent pick click. ( I can't believe I carried that so far!).
I do like the plain jane look of the Collings MF. I think they got the non-shiny alternative look right but the price point of it compares closer to the F5-G not the F-9. I am looking for a 2nd mandolin and right now it seems to be between the MF and the F5-G.
Long Live Gibson!
gibby24
Jun-08-2004, 8:04pm
Gibson makes some fine mandolins and the new ones are played by some really great players. D'Angelico's work was rough compared to these modern makers but they were sturdy, sounded great and some really great luthiers today are still chasing his tone.
Amusingly enough, the period of the greatest Gibson hype excess was around 1915-1925, when their advertising department was publishing the most insane garbage ever written, and the company was making the best mandolins of their type the planet has ever seen.
Perhaps the Gibson company needs to recruit some Washington speechwriters, if they hope to stake a claim on the highest elevations of the luthier's art, and once again produce mandolins and brochures that will stun the world, leaving the audience gaping with wonder, and filling the rumbleseats of the mandolinist with trembling, adoring folk of the opposite gender.
Dang. They just don't make 'em like the used to, huh?
BigJoe
Jun-08-2004, 10:14pm
I shaking and shuddering, kind of like holding a freight locomotive back, but I'm still in control and staying out of this one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Bradley
Jun-08-2004, 10:35pm
[QUOTE]Amusingly enough, the period of the greatest Gibson hype excess was around 1915-1925, when their advertising department was publishing the most insane garbage ever written, and the company was making the best mandolins of their type the planet has ever seen.
I've got a catalog from that Era right here by my desk.Other than the hair-dos and weird clothes I dont see any hype.Just very "classical"/orchestra oriented.
What did they do different than the other Mandolin makers in that period? does anybody have the competitors literature from that timeframe? # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif
mandough
Jun-09-2004, 12:20am
Hey, Big Joe peeked his head out of his hole but he forgot to tell us if it was going to be a long or short winter!
Let the locomotive roll my friend:D
We're not knocking, seriously.
We're just trying to help http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
mrbook
Jun-09-2004, 8:01am
Almost every Gibson instrument I've owned or played, with the exception of the 1970s models, has been a very good to fine instrument. Gibson mandolins are still the standard by which most others are judged, they are the styles that people copy, and half the people here like to say that their mandolin (whether cheap or expensive) sounds "better than a Gibson." There is a lot of subjective stuff here, and I've owned, heard, and played mandolins by other makers, but Gibson makes fine instruments, and there are at least a couple new ones I'd like to own someday.
cbogle
Jun-09-2004, 8:39am
They're complaining over on the UMGF that things have been a little slow lately. Hmmmm.....
Tim Saxton
Jun-09-2004, 8:40am
I love everybody... I'm staying out of this one http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .
WoW I cant believe it !!
Tim
re: Joe... ; sometimes.." discretion is the better part of valor"!! - and I might add: "How you stand depends on where you're sitting".. Carry on folks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
EasyEd
Jun-09-2004, 9:12am
Hey All,
I ain't touchin the mando part of this scrap! But somebody said...
"My Ford Truck is faster and will tow more than both my neighbors chevy and dodge trucks! It also has a nicer fit and finish. Did I mention that the engine has a deep throaty growl when you rev it up?"
Actually implyin that a Ford is better than a Dodge!?! Thems fightin words! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Take Care! -Ed-
doanepoole
Jun-09-2004, 10:35am
Gibson does not replicate what some argue is the supreme in mandolin design, oddly enough designed and created by Gibson in the early 20th Century (maybe before???)...the A-style, oval-holed mandolin (or the F-4, for that matter).
Other builders, to include Weber, Rigel, Breedlove, basically the vast majority of Gibson's competitors, are all over this market, which Gibson has neglected with repeated statements like, "Maybe someday."
To the oval-hole fanatic, Gibson does not make mandolins at all.
(the lobby continues)
EasyEd
"My Ford Truck is faster and will tow more than both my neighbors chevy and dodge trucks! It also has a nicer fit and finish. Did I mention that the engine has a deep throaty growl when you rev it up?"
Actually implyin that a Ford is better than a Dodge!?! Thems fightin words!
Shhhh, if you wake up that Texan we'll have to hear all that hot air bout dem Chevy trucks, again. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
GVD
John Ritchhart
Jun-09-2004, 1:30pm
So, a horse walks into a music store and sees 40 different mandos hanging on the wall. The proprietor walks up and says,..........."So, why the long face?"
ARR,ARR, ARR http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You guys jus' keep a' stirrin' it up..!! - Now yer' gonna' get "that Texan" into this.... I just dun'no why I keep scannin this thread... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
tiltman
Jun-09-2004, 2:03pm
I really like the look of the F-9 (I'll fess up that I own one - but I do not sell them so I have no financial interest!). It's a nice "no frills" alternative to all the other F models that are sunburst with a thick layer of glossy lacquer. Personal preference. I've posted before that the underside of the scroll and deep under the end of the fingerboard is not finished perfectly - I wasn't even aware of it until I read about it on another post.
Kirk
cutbait2
Jun-09-2004, 2:52pm
i don't own presently own a gibson (have a Randy Wood F-5 and a Kimble A) but I have to admit the ones I've heard recently are pretty darn good and anyone considering a new mandolin in the price range should give them a try. i really liked a Doyle Lawson I heard recently. all this chipping at Gibson is just nonsense, all mando's are a little different, just listen to the mando tasting tracks......
Randy42649
Jun-09-2004, 3:01pm
Well fellers, I like mine. It's a 2001 Flatiron Festival F, which of course is a Gibson Master Model F5 without all of the eye candy. But it has a mean chop and a lot of volume and great tone. I'm not a hard nose Gibson fan and I have played a lot of ###### Gibsons. Mostly from the 70s and 80s. The mandolin player in my band has a Hutto that has a much guttier tone than my Flatiron and if I had the choice I'd probably choose his. But it also had a bigger price tag. You just have to play a mandolin for a while to decide if you really like it. I think the best mandolin I've ever had in my hands was a 2 week old Silver Angel. It had a Satin finish that looked 50 years old. Was the loudest and had the best tone my ears have ever heard come out of a mandolin. But keep in mind, its the best to ME. It may not be to YOU. that's how it works.
Randy
EasyEd
Jun-09-2004, 3:05pm
Hey AAll,
GVD said "Shhhh, if you wake up that Texan we'll have to hear all that hot air bout dem Chevy trucks, again."
I ain't afeared of no Texican in a Chebbie! Sides seems to me he showed us a picture of his Damcharger not long ago so I figure theys hope for him yet. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Take Care! -Ed- http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Jim Webster
Jun-09-2004, 3:08pm
But I'm going to have to ask jcs271 to step outside and discuss his Ford truck dillusions. My Dodge diesel is to his Ford as a mandolin is to a banjo.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Blind_Cowboy
Jun-09-2004, 3:40pm
Been driving a Ford all of my life. Never failed me. Key in the ignition, turn, start, run, go. Works every time.
As for the F9, I gotta tell ya. I like it. To me, it has the look of a working man's instrument. I'd never buy it, 'cause i'm not throwing down that amount of money for a name, but I like it..
peterleyenaar
Jun-09-2004, 4:02pm
From what I have learned, most of today's well repected luthiers,
started out trying to copy a Gibson, I have owned a number of Gibsons,
only older ones and I liked most of them a lot, now I have a 1917
Gibson F2 which I think is a great instrument, I do think that the very good Gibsons are still the ones by which all others are judged.
mandroid
Jun-09-2004, 6:15pm
Gibson '22 'A' has fine tone, , new ones have a different tone, check back in 80 years and see if they are more similar or still different.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
mandopete
Jun-09-2004, 6:22pm
........and I was just starting to think it was getting pretty dull around the old cafe.
Hey Scott, can we re-start the recipe thread?
Elen's (If Life Gives you Lemons, Make...) Lemon - Raisin Bread
Preheat oven to 350 degrees.
Makes 2 small loaves (approx. 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 each)
Ingredients:
3 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
3 teaspoons double acting baking powder
1 1/3 cup milk
3 tablespoons butter (melted)
1 cup sugar
Lemon zest (grated lemon rind) from 3 large (or 4 small) lemons
Lemon Juice from 3 large (or 4 small) lemons
1 beaten egg
1 cup raisins
Chop up the lemon rind very fine.
Sift all dry ingredients together and then cream in the rest. #Place in greased glass pans -- bake approx. #45 minutes -- or until done. #
If you prefer...You may substitute canola oil for the butter in equal amounts and grease the pans with a canola oil spray. #The difference is not very noticeable.
Submitted by: Elen Pass Brandt, San Rafael, California
craigtoo
Jun-10-2004, 6:12am
Not a big gibson fan...at least "modern" gibson...I have a great 1920 A Jr... But.... another thread about Gibson Master Models made me drool....like I would over Dudes, and Coombes, and Gil's etc.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....0;st=25 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=15850;st=25)
JPPs master model posted over in the # "Gibson Master Model Picture Gallery Thread" #(page 2)
Pic is worth 10,000 words here...
Whatever Charlie is doing with the Master Models, he's doing it right.
enjoy,
craig
Randy42649 Posted on June 09 2004, 15:01
But keep in mind, its the best to ME. #It may not be to YOU. #that's how it works.
Well said Randy.
Eightbar Posted on June 09 2004, 15:08
But I'm going to have to ask jcs271 to step outside and discuss his Ford truck dillusions.
Ford doesn't offer dillusions [sic] as an option on their trucks. It must be a Dodge thang.#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Moose Posted on June 09 2004, 13:55
You guys jus' keep a' stirrin' it up..!! - Now yer' gonna' get "that Texan" into this.... I just dun'no #why I keep scannin this thread...
Yeah you do Moose, you're just itching to see the Texan give us all a good what fer. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
GVD
Scott Tichenor
Jun-10-2004, 8:11am
Hey Scott, can we re-start the recipe thread?
No, but no one pays attention to much I say anyway. My personal summer favorite: Cafe tomato salad on Ciabatta. This is the reason for summer in my opinion.
Two large tomatos--home grown. The others are all pretenders. Anything else will disappoint this recipe.
10-12 fresh basil leaves
Two cloves raw garlic, crushed
1/4 white onion, minced
A good virgin olive oil (2-3 Tbs.--to taste)
Red wine vinegar (2-3 Tbs.--to taste)
Plenty of salt and pepper--don't use that wimpy pepper out of a can or shaker. This needs to be fresh cracked. Grrrrr.
Dice the tomato and toss with onion, garlic, olive oil and red wine vinegar + salt/pepper to taste. Slice the basil into thin narrow strips and toss into tomato mixture. Slice up and roast a loaf of good quality ciabatta open-faced in the oven until just turning lightly brown on the cut side. Spread the tomato mixture liberally on top of the bread and serve with a glass of wine--I like a Pinot Grigio but let's not get into personal choices. Salt gives this flavor but be careful to add too much. Result is a gorgeous burst of bright red and green. Taking it up a notch: as an alternative you can fork a clove of raw garlic and rub it directly onto the toasted ciabatta before spreading the tomato mixture. The heat and hardness of the toasted bread will melt this mixture directly into the loaf (nearly faiting). Note: this recipe is against the law in Texas, Wisconsin and Utah.
Scott Tichenor
Jun-10-2004, 8:19am
BTW, I wouldn't recommend a Chardonnay with this but if you like those, the Mandolin Wine (http://www.smallwinemakers.ca/Mandolin.html) is a prefer good gulp. Had one bottle recently and one left to work on this weekend.
<span style='color:red'>It's good to be the King</span> http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
<span style='color:red'>...Mmmm Cherry</span>
Stop that Scott the drool coming out of my mouth is playing havoc with the spreadsheet I've got laying on my desk. I'm going straight home from work tonight and giving my plants a little pep talk. "Come on boys ripen up you can do it".
GVD
Greenmando
Jun-10-2004, 1:12pm
You know when the F-9 came out I could not stand the finish. But it worked on me with time and now I love the simple look to it. Reminds me of the old mandos that Gibson made in the beginnings of the 1900's. I do not have a F-9 yet, I did get a great A-9 with flame to shine. If I find a F-9 with flame I am buying it. It's out there, I will find it.
Spruce
Jun-10-2004, 2:19pm
You know when the F-9 came out I could not stand the finish. If I find a F-9 with flame I am buying it. It's out there, I will find it.
Occasionally we get fresh albacore at the docks here in the NW, and I make a dish very similar to your Cafe tomato salad on Ciabatta, Scott...
Roast the albacore whole in tinfoil on the barbee with 4-5 heads of garlic where the guts used to be...
Serve it cold the next day using a recipe that's almost a dead-ringer for Scott's, only with fresh cilantro in place of the basil and thin slices of the tuna on the whole show...
Man, I'm hungry....
mandopete
Jun-10-2004, 5:41pm
See Scott, no one listens to you...... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Kevin@bluegrassbrethren
Jun-10-2004, 6:01pm
Pass the cream soda......I'm out http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
sunburst
Jun-10-2004, 6:25pm
BTW, I wouldn't recommend a Chardonnay with this but if you like those, the Mandolin Wine (http://www.smallwinemakers.ca/Mandolin.html) is a prefer good gulp. Had one bottle recently and one left to work on this weekend.
I have a candle in a 1999 Mandolin Chardonnay bottle.
Found it in the grocery store and just couldn't resist buying it for the bottle.
It turned out to be OK. Pretty typical California grocery store wine.
I am from Virginia and live across the road from a winery, by the way. VA is touting itself as a world class wine producing state these days so.....look out, California!
sunburst
Jun-10-2004, 6:30pm
Oh, and I have a Ford and a Chevy pickup.
sunburst
Jun-10-2004, 7:07pm
Hmmmm...no bites huh? Guess Californians aren't like the French. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
EasyEd
Jun-10-2004, 11:10pm
Hey All,
Sunburst - of course no bites cause mandolin wine is made in Canada!! Grapes come from various places but it's Canadian expertise that makes the wines. Just like Canadian beer is superior to American. An as to trucks I'm sorry to hear that you've been burned twice! (The caveat is however Fords pre 1980 and Chebbies with 300 cu in straight sixes - both good trucks). I might recommend you try International next. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Take Care! -Ed-
Spruce that tuna recipe does sound good.
mandopete
Jun-11-2004, 8:24am
Was there a point to this thread? I've forgotten.
Ho..., Hummmm..., ZZZZZZ - Well here it is FGIF ; next weeks another week.., mmmmm.., the weekend.., salad.., wine.., ZZZZZ. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Nick Triesch
Jun-11-2004, 8:59am
The truth is there is always a mandolin or guitar that sounds better that the one we own somewhere, someplace. It's the the way it is. Also if a person is really good they can make firewood soound great! Nick.:)
duuuude
Jun-11-2004, 11:23am
Oh, and I have a Ford and a Chevy pickup.
You sure you're not the anti-christ? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Greenmando
Jun-11-2004, 11:33am
Hmmmm...no bites huh? Guess Californians aren't like the French. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Well you did say a California grocery store wine, we get that stuff for pennies here in Ca, give it to the animals to drink. Most of it is rather plain. I think they should make vinegar out of the bunch of it.
Since the secret of where the Napa valley wineries buy their grapes has leaked out the central coast has became the new hot spot here. It only needs like 15% of Napa grapes to call it a Napa wine.
My cousin bought 300 acres to grow grapes, so far he is just selling them to wineries. But I expect to see my last name on a bottle pretty soon. That's just the way he is http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif