Mando shipping in winter

[the_mahout]

Greetings:

I did a quick search of the archive and didn’t see this question addressed…

I am buying a mandolin (my first nice one!) and having it shipped. #What are the effects / risks (if any) of shipping a mandolin this time of year with the potential for exposure to freezing temperatures while in transit.
#
Seems like a non-issue but I have noticed in many of the classified ads here and on other sites comments like “mandolin has never been out of the house” or “always in a climate controlled environment” etc….

Thanks.

[Big Joe]

Any time someone tells you it has never been out of the house or kept in a climate controlles environment consider it the same as the car dealer telling you it was only driven to church on Sundays by a little old lady. It may have been well cared for or it may not. Only visual inspection can determine that. Secondly, just because it has not been out of the house does not mean it is a good instrument. It may only mean it has not broken in and reached its potential or it is not as good as the one that does get out of the house. These statements are well meaning, but not very helpful when purchasing.

Now to the real question. If you are going to ship in Summer heat or Winter cold, use next day air. It will cost a bit more, but it will give much better protection and will reduce the amount of time it sits in a truck. Once it arrives DO NOT open the package immediately. Allow it to acclimate to your environment before opening. Once it has reached room temperature outside let it sit for a few hours before opening. I recommend waiting overnight. Then it should be safe to open and you should have no damage from shipping. I have shipped thousands of instruments with no problems when the above mentioned method was used.

[pasturepicker]

Rapid temperature changes are probably more detrimental than how cold the instrument gets. Insulation (packing material) slows down the temperature change. Be sure to let the package slowly come up to room temperature before opening it.

[Jerry Byers]

Secondly, just because it has not been out of the house does not mean it is a good instrument. It may only mean it has not broken in and reached its potential or it is not as good as the one that does get out of the house. These statements are well meaning, but not very helpful when purchasing.
What?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif And this opinion is not very helpful when somebody is asking a legitimate question. Whether an instrument stays in the house or not has nothing to do with whether it is a good instrument or not. Believe it or not, some great instruments never get out of the house.

[Tim]

.. some great instruments never get out of the house.
I've got instruments that have never been out of the house that are not great so you aren't being helpful. #

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

...relax, citing one possible outcome with "may" in the sentence isn't saying that the other possible outcome aren't possible. #It's giving another perspective on possible marketing hype.

[Jerry Byers]

It's giving another perspective on possible marketing hype.
And just about everybody that sells in the classifieds uses some form of marketing hype, including Mr. Vest when he advertised his mandolins there.

The OP's question was about shipping in the winter. Pasturepicker gave a more useful answer, as damage is usually associated with the rate of temperature change rather than the actual temperature. I would ask the following questions to the OP:

1. How far is it being shipped? What is the anticipated shipping time?
2. What is the forecasted temperatures and how much exposure will the instrument experience?
3. What type of finish is on the instrument? Some finishes are more resilient to temperature changes than others.

[Big Joe]

Even more critical than just the temperature changes is the number of times it will be handled by human hands. If you ship it air it will have far less handling than if it is shipped ground. It will be exposed to temperature changes far less often and will arrive with a better chance of being intact. Even so, the advice about opening the package is still sound.

[Tim2723]

Whether the instrument is good, bad, only driven on Sundays, whatever, the objectives in shipping are always the same. #Provide maximum shock protection, minimize handling, limit exposure, and protect from sudden temperature changes. #Do those and you'll probably be alright.

[Ted Eschliman]

As a 27 year veteran of music retail in a climate capable of great temperature extremes (Nebraska), let me say there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of instruments shipped in and out of harsh environments everyday. If it were not possible, we'd not have guitars to sell at Christmas, let alone January, February, and March. We can't wait for the spring thaw to do commerce!

That said, we have very strict protocols about opening boxes. As mentioned, it's not the cold, nor the heat, its the rapidity of change. In subfreezing weather, nothing gets opened before 24 hours after receiving. (You see a finish crackle once, and you understand for the rest of your career how crucial this is.) Assuming an instrument is packed well, this provides good insulation while instrument and case enjoy a sloooow transition.

[Miles Town Mando]

Two years ago I purchased a 1917 Gibson A-4 and shipped regular ground shipping (it took 3 days) in below freezing weather. Just this past week my cuurent high end mando was shipped back to me after a fret job. This time the temp was below zero at times with a high at about 20 degrees. In both cases I waited about 24 hours before opening the packages, and both mandolins did just fine.

[mandolooter]

My old Givens is a prime example of overly fast temp changes. From some angles it looks like the finish is perfect...from others ya can see the finish checking that covers the top. For some unknown reason the back checking is barely noticeable and not as intense. It didn't affect the structural integrity and doesn't really bother me but I wish the previous owner/shippers(s) had been a little more careful cuz it would be nicer without it. It isn't only the shipping that we should be careful with. With winter here a trip to a local jam or gig can cause the same problem. Thats one thing I love about my big heavy Calton case...it really helps keep those trips to and from the car, bar, or friends house fairly climate controlled as long as Im thinking and being quick on my feet. I keep a old comforter in my backseat and will toss that around the case a few times if I didn't get a chance to warm up the car when it's really cold and I have more than a 10-15 minute trip to take.

I like to think preventable accidents should be prevented if they can...JMO

[Jonathan Peck]

And just about everybody that sells in the classifieds uses some form of marketing hype
I completely dissagree with this statement. Well atleast the 'just about everybody' part.

I find that most people that use the classifieds to sell stick to specs, condition, and history (repairs and such). Some will give a bare bones modest description of tonal charecteristics, but for the most part I think it's to help rather than salesmanship as generally, more than that is subjective and most sellers and buyers respect that.

There are obviously exceptions, but I think what I state is the norm. Most people will also use the cafe search function to find information on any particular maker and are well informed before they contact a seller anyway.

Grandious statements like:

"This exceptional mandolin is in my opinion the best available on the planet, in this price range!"

don't make any difference when you can use the search function and get this:

The tone of ##### had some omph and bark to it, pretty good on the lower end, but somewhat thin with less volume on the high end. It sounded kind of like the G and D strings of a good mandolin attached to the A and E strings of a cheaper one. <snip> My comments are compared to the two nicer mandolins I have owned most recently, which is ##### and ####, both of which cost around the same as this mandolin when new.

[Jerry Byers]

Fair enough. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Tim2723]

The hardest part about getting a mandolin in winter is when you're looking at that big 'ol box and can't open it until tomorrow.

[Ken Sager]

The hardest part about getting a mandolin in winter is when you're looking at that big 'ol box and can't open it until tomorrow.
The hardest part of getting any mandolin at any time of the year is trying to figure out

1) how to part with the cash
2) how to explain the parting with the cash to the SO

Shipping and receiving, as is waiting for a box to thaw, are the easy part.

Love to all,
Ken

[jk245]

This whole discussion about 'winter' transportation makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Specifically, I am thinking about car transportation ... instruments are not always in kept in the heated passenger area.

Does this mean that we must leave our instruments in the temperature controlled house in the winter and transport it *anywhere* only in the spring and fall? This does not make sense. People transport wooden fretted instruments in cars all time of the year.

My main concern would be if the instrument was to be moved from a very hot and humid place and transported to a very dry and cool place causing extreme expansion and contraction of the wood.

[Sheryl McDonald]

My instruments always ride with me in the passenger area of a car. If it's too cold outside for me, it's too cold for my instruments.

Last winter I was in the market for an mandolin, and it was during a week time span when the weather was terrible all over the US -- even here in the south. I opted to wait on the shipping until the weather warmed up, just so the mandolin would be put in that type of extreme temps.

[Salty Dog]

Ben Wilcox (BRW Instruments) also recommends 24 hours before opening the case. #Even if you ship it next day air, you have no idea how long it sat in the back (unheated area) of a delivery truck before being delivered. #The cargo areas of airplanes are not necessarily kept at temperatures that are ideal for instruments - quickly open your suitcase and feel a metal object at the luggage retrieval area, if you do not believe me. #I agree with the above posts that suggest that getting cold is not harmful as long as it is gradual and the same applies to getting warm. #As to instruments in a vehicle, my instruments go in the vehicle when I go in the vehicle and they exit when I exit. #They are always in the heated part of the vehicle.

[JeffS]

My main concern would be if the instrument was to be moved from a very hot and humid place and transported to a very dry and cool place causing extreme expansion and contraction of the wood.
I do this several times a week during the summer. Air conditioned house to humid back porch to back inside. I've been to outdoor weddings in July where the heat and humidity are unbearable and the string quartet plays on. Been to many outdoor festivals with either hot sun or pouring rain. The bands play on. It wasn't until I came to the Cafe that I even knew people were concerned about these kinds of things. I always get a good chuckle when I see posts about people wondering what to do with their mandolin when they go on vacation to Florida or take their instrument out on a boat. As long as you don't swim with it I think you'll be fine.

I would be concerned about an instrument being in below freezing temperatures for several days and then instantly opened up, tuned to pitch and played inside a warm house. I'd probably let mine gradually come to room temperature. But as for going from cool inside to a hot and humid outside, wipe the condensation off the tailpiece cover and keep on playing. I figure if it took my cedar fence a couple years to warp and crack from exposure, my mandolin or guitar can last a few hours.

[fwoompf]

I got my mandolin last year right before Christmas and luckily it came around noon while I was at work, so by the time I got back at 6 I could tear right into it. And what a night it was...

[rhetoric]

I called my local post office and had them hold my octave when it came. Told them it was a musical instrument and I was nervous about the subzero temps at the time. They were happy to hold it -- even called when it came. I don't know what weather it "enjoyed" on the way here, but at least it didn't sit in the back of a freezing mailtruck while the postperson drove around town and ate lunch at Stone's Grill.

[kvk]

You know what would be an interesting experiment. A digital room thermometer that records max and min only costs about $20 and will run for like a year on one AAA battery. It would be fun to put one in your suitcase when flying or a package when shipping a package and record the min/max inside the case/package.

[piknleft]

I'll find out tomorrow evening. My new Weber should arrive within the next half hour. I'll let it acclimate for a goood 24hrs. in stages. 12hours in basement(just a bit cooler than upstairs), then 12-15 hours upstairs. I ain't waited this long just to get anxiously stupid. Ohio winters and all......wish me luck....Thanks, Mike http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

[earthsave]

Shipping in summer would be the worst case IMHO. I've bought instruments in December. Just let the box stabilize to room temp before opening to avoid finish checking.

Shipping delicate stuff is just scary all around, but it's done successfully every day.

[Josh_Akins]

I'm glad I found this thread, because I ordered a mandolin the other day, and it's supposed to be here tomorrow. At any rate, I won't be able to play until next Tuesday, but still.

[Rick Lindstrom]

My main concern would be if the instrument was to be moved from a very hot and humid It wasn't until I camplace and transported to a very dry and cool place causing extreme expansion and contraction of the wood.
I do this several times a week during the summer. Air conditioned house to humid back porch to back inside. I've been to outdoor weddings in July where the heat and humidity are unbearable and the string quartet plays on. Been to many outdoor festivals with either hot sun or pouring rain. The bands play on.
This is maybe a little off topic, but I'm starting to believe that cycling a mando through temperature and humidity changes is instrumental (no pun really intended<G>) making it "open up". I've got a very nice mandolin that didn't find its voice until I started taking it with me to work every day to play for a half hour after I'd finished lunch. The mando waited in the car in the parking garage all day, and at lunch time was out with me in the park in the summer heat and humidity (North Florida). At night of course it was back home with me in the controlled climate. You might make the argument that the actual playing was what did it, but I don't think it was enough. My intuition is that the temperature and humidity changes had more to do with it.

Rick

[arbarnhart]

Even more critical than just the temperature changes is the number of times it will be handled by human hands. #If you ship it air it will have far less handling than if it is shipped ground. #
With all due respect, I don't find this to be true at all. The air carriers generally have one or two centrally located hubs where all the overnight packages are flown to from the major city near the origin, get sorted and then fly out to the major city nearest the destination. With ground transport, they don't do that. They have long haul trucks regularly going between major cities with no stops. I compared actual tracking info on FedEx overnight and FedEx ground packages I sent and received to come to this conclusion.

[arbarnhart]

One interesting aspect to the weather/temperature issue...

I would worry far more about this as a seller than a buyer. If the goods arrive damaged it is on the seller to replace or refund.

[Steve Ostrander]

Yeah, I just ordered a new Kentucky km855 and I'm gonna have to wait an extra 24hrs to see it. Bummer.