Lawson on ebay -be aware

[G. Fisher]

If you are considering this mandolin make sure to ask a lot of questions about it. After looking at the pictures I was sent and the ones on Ebay and the location of the seller. I believe it is the same mando I was told was in excellent plus condition only to find major issues once I recieved it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....hosting (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260183807634&indexURL=8&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

[f5loar]

What kind of major issues could possibly be on a Lawson Gibson? They aren't that old yet! Any major issues should have been handled by the original owner through Gibson under their warrenty. Do tell us the gore!

[G. Fisher]

The top is sinking and the top seam is starting to seperate.

[G. Fisher]

Here is a pix of the top. It is .080 low which is close to 1/8"

[MikeEdgerton]

When and who did you return it to Greg?

He purchased it from Mitch Simpson in July.

Closed Auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170126405850&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 170126405850%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1)

The rest of his auctions look pretty clean.

I'm surprised they didn't run a piece of sand paper along the bottom of that f hole binding.

[G. Fisher]

Here is a pix I was sent of the mando it looks like the back is the same as the pix on Ebay.

[G. Fisher]

I traded one of my mandos for it about a month ago.

I also explored the posibility of Gibson repairing it under warranty. I was told only the original owner could have it reapired free of charge.

[MikeEdgerton]

You're in Minnesota, he's in Durham, NC. It appears he's had it since July. Did you trade it with a guy in North Carolina?

[G. Fisher]

It isn't the Lawson he got from Mitch. The one from Mitch has a 2 piece back and this one has a 1 piece back.

Yes the trade was with a guy from NC.

[MikeEdgerton]

ok then.

Greg, the mando on ebay right now is serial number 40828039. Is that the one you had?

[G. Fisher]

Greg, the mando on ebay right now is serial number 40828039. Is that the one you had?
I never thought to write it down and I should have.

[G. Fisher]

Here is the Ebay pix. It looks the same to me.

[foldedpath]

That finish looks like someone cleaned it with steel wool. And whats up with the funky scroll binding?

That scroll binding in the closeup looked weird to me too, but here's another Lawson for sale at Elderly with that same flat turn on the inside binding:

http://elderly.com/images/vintage/90U/90U-4862_front-detail-2.jpg

Here's the full ad:

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-4862.htm

So is that an intentional part of the Lawson design? Seems kinda odd to me, but maybe that's what he wanted.

[Chris Biorkman]

That finish looks like someone cleaned it with steel wool. And whats up with the funky scroll binding?
That's wierd. I've never heard of a Gibson with any fit and finish issues. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Bernie Daniel]

G. Fisher: Here is a pix of the top. It is .080 low which is close to 1/8"

Can you clarify that statement and pic please? #I guess you have a steel rule there which is divided as a metric rule (i.e., 10th's and 100th's).

So you are saying that 1.75" depth (bottom to finished surface of the top)at the front of the f-hole is between 2/32"(0.062") and 3/32" (0.093") too low? #

Isn't that expecting tolerances beyond what would be reasonable for the luthiers to achieve? #It is a carved top so there has to be normal variance in the entire process I would expect(sides, top, kerfed support etc.).

My 1952 F12 is nearly 2", my 2002 F5L is 1.72" and a 2002 A9 I have is 1.69" assessed by that test - none of them look deformed.

What do you suggest is acceptable for a Gibson F-model?

BTW the surface plane of the inside curve of that f-hole does not look like it is below the plane of the outer curl? #Would this not be the case if the top was sinking?

Just asking.

[G. Fisher]

The rule is in 10ths and 100ths of an inch it is not metric.

I've added a picture that better shows the sinking the inside edge is lower than the outside edge. It has nothing to do with the depth of the body.

[Bernie Daniel]

G. Fisher: The rule is in 10ths and 100ths of an inch it is not metric. #I've added a picture that better shows the sinking the inside edge is lower than the outside edge. It has nothing to do with the depth of the body.


Thanks for the clarification. Yes, if the inside measures that much less I agree there is some sinking.

Just a bit more thought on that though. #Since the graduation of the top plate possibly results ina raising plane surface as you proceed toward the edges toward the recurve, I suppose the inside of the curve would be a bit lower even with no string pressure? I'm guessing here.

If that were true then I guess to really tell what is going on one should make the test both with and without string pressure?

Also a clarification about my statement. #I did not say your rule was metric -- I said it was graduated LIKE a metric - i.e., in 10th's etc. not in the English system of 1/8's and 1/16's etc.

Thanks

I must say I am also surprised at the messy looking inside edge of the f-hole binding that one must have missed the QC inspection.

[mandolooter]

Im just glad its not mine cuz it may never sell now. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Gutbucket]

Take a good look all Ye who have Gibson "FEVER"! #Must have #run out of sand paper that day.

[G. Fisher]

Bumping to top for those who didn't see it. It has been re-listed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....hosting (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260183807634&indexURL=8&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

[cooper4205]

Take a good look all Ye who have Gibson "FEVER"! Must have run out of sand paper that day.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Perhaps the person that had this auction on eBay would like to respond on the forum regarding this mandolin. I'm sure he or she must have something to say about it. Perhaps their story would be different. Let's see if that happens.

[MikeEdgerton]

Kevin, for a guy that wants to stay anonymous you seem hell bent to out yourself. Merry Christmas.

[Bill Snyder]

The two back pictures posted above are definitley from TWO DIFFERENT mandolins.
If you look closely at the two backs they are similar, but if you pick a small area to concentrate on you can see the difference.

[bradeinhorn]

That finish looks like someone cleaned it with steel wool. And whats up with the funky scroll binding?

That scroll binding in the closeup looked weird to me too, but here's another Lawson for sale at Elderly with that same flat turn on the inside binding:

So is that an intentional part of the Lawson design? Seems kinda odd to me, but maybe that's what he wanted.
the flat turn is common on gibson and gibson based f-5s, not just this model. my daley has a similar scroll. as do many others. loars included.

[Geoff B]

With all due respect, Bill, it looks to me that those two mandolins are the same (or at least it is the same back). Keep in mind that curly maple changes with the angle from which you are viewing. For example, on the left picture you can see the top of the front point, but in the right picture you are looking at the outside and bottom of the point. The subtle change in curl in those two pictures is almost certainly a case of having different angles. One tell tale sign, for me, is the diagonal (parallel to the sides) curl that runs through and out the left portion of your red circle-- pretty unique and identical in each picture. Also, looking carefully at the scroll you can see the curls match up. A last thing, a little more concrete is to notice the slight lean of the button toward the scroll (common, yes, but useful in this case), and how the bass side of back coming down from the button is kind of squat compared to the treble side. I'm not sure if that makes a big difference, but I did want to point that out.:)

[Bill Snyder]

I see several places where the figure just does not look at all like the same back to me. I could be wrong.

[priorma]

When I looked at photos of mandolin on ebay, scrolling through the 12 photos it shows two different mandolins, one with pick guard and pick guard nut on side. The other mandolin does not have pick guard or pick guard nut. The photos of backs one shows no nut on side, the other has a nut on the side.

[Links]

Same mandolin back to me - can tell from the scroll area. I agree with Geoff.

[amandokat]

Mike, do you work for a living?

[Bill Snyder]

Everywhere I look they look different. Oh well, we are not going to convince each other and I could be wrong. It would not be the first time, I seem to recall being wrong at least once or twice before. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[woodwizard]

I have to agree with Bill on this one. Those are two different backs. Take a good look again folks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MandoBen]

Those backs look identical to me, aside from the angle changing the flame, check the patterns in the scroll where the light doesn't play as many tricks on your eyes.
It is interesting that he removed the pickguard in some of the pix in the auction, but look at the two dark spots on the top next to the bass side F hole, present in all pix.

[Big Joe]

I'd bet a dollar to a donut they are different backs. Different grains irrespective of angle and light, and different color patterns. One has a darker outer portion of the burst. Also, the scrolls appear to be a bit different. Very similar pieces of wood for flame, but not the same. Many of the Lawsons had incredible backs like these.

[Links]

Big Joe/Bill:

The reason the scroll looks different is because of the angle of the photographs. Also the scale of the photos are different. If you looks at the flame on the scroll, you can see that the pattern is the same. I would bet that the curl pattern is like fingerprints - no two alike. The fact that the scroll flame pattern is the same could not be a coincidence - in my opinion. Of course the option that you might be right is still on the table!

[Tom C]

And from this angle it looks like neither one. Bit I have to say they seem the same.
If not, maybe from same tree. -adjacent wedges.
http://i20.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/c2/f7/1b3a_3.JPG

<Comment removed. Violates board posting guidelines.>

To clarify, the owner of this account has been removed as this was a duplicate registration used in an inappropriate manner. There has also been a fair amount of inappropriate behavior behind the scenes on both sides of this issue which will be dealt with privately. If you have problems with another user, you are to contact myself or a moderator.

[Jonathan James]

this topic has more twists and turns than an episode of CSI

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Jonathan Peck]

Wow, i just noticed this thread. I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree. I've bought from this seller before and our transaction was flawless. I was offered a trial period, and he shipped the mandolin free of charge next day air. I've had several phone conversations as well as e-mail correspondence with this individual and the mandolin I bought was in excellent condition as described.

Scott, I have the sellers contact information if you need it for any reason to clear things up.