Mix F4

[Scott Tichenor]

Took pictures of this last Monday when in town for Butch's benefit concert. Believe this is the only carbon fiber F4, or the first one, or... whatever. First something. The folks at Cotten Music in Nashville could tell you. Lousy pictures I take indoors but they'll have to do. Sounded terrific! Think Kim said it usually takes a week to get photos onto their site so as it'd just arrived that day I'll assume photos will be on their site tomorrow.

Also of interest in the store there was a Givens F. I don't get a chance to play many of these so didn't have an opinion. This one was stunning. Huge sound, had a great broken-in/used vibe that really agreed with me.

[Scott Tichenor]

[mandobando]

Hey Scott, I've played that Givens. It's a monster. It's actually one of the better mandolins I've ever played. Wish i had some extra cash!

[woodwizard]

I smell a lot of $$$$ signs for one of those I bet http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mandroid]

Long neck F4 does look right.
the picture of the A4 seemed like the oval hole was out of place.
[to one with a normal A4]
the extra width of the point and scroll at that area
visually makes a difference .

MHO, blacktop over the weave, on the top, and headstock foreward surface would help
reduce distraction from what one was playing,
to what they were playing it upon.
plus I love an Iridescent gloss black.
[though no instrument I have came as such]

{May 'the Schwartz' be with You}

[JEStanek]

Darth Oval! That looks very cool.

Jamie

[Keith Erickson]

Lousy pictures I take indoors but they'll have to do.

There really isn't anything wrong with your camera Scott!!!

Those pics look great!!!!

Thank you for sharin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

I was wondering if you had a few moments if you could give a small review?

Thank you,

[Kevin Briggs]

Are the carbon fiber mandolins braced with tone bars and what not? Do they even have bracing?

[Snakebeard Jackson]

one vote for dumb.
sorry guys
looks dumb to me

[MikeEdgerton]

one vote for dumb.
sorry guys
looks dumb to me
Care to elaborate? What looks dumb about it?

[Kevin Briggs]

Looks "dumb"? #That's the best word you could come up with? Someone made that mandolin and took a lot of time to do it. Nonetheless, it was someone who has been a fixture in the mandolin community for a long time.

It looks "dumb"...?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

I understand somebody thinking an instrument looks dumb, I'm just interested in what he thinks looks dumb. I can name a few dozen electric guitars that I think look dumb, there are some mandolins I think look dumb (that shall remain nameless). It's a valid observation.

[pager]

Just when I think I have my MAS cured, I see this hot little number. YOWZA.
And you say it was stunning with a huge sound? I have to try one of those.
As my dad would have said ... "that looks like it was dipped in liquid bliss". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Big Joe]

I believe this is the same one Will Kimble had at IBMA. Some of you had opportunity to play it. What did you think?

[Kevin Briggs]

Didn't play this one, but played the f hole model. It was hummy. Lacked punch, but was nice. I wish I would have played the F4 model. The way the f hole model responded made me think the oval would be great.

I can say that the one I played felt good inmy hands, and was easy to fret.

[Kevin Briggs]

I understand somebody thinking an instrument looks dumb, I'm just interested in what he thinks looks dumb. I can name a few dozen electric guitars that I think look dumb, there are some mandolins I think look dumb (that shall remain nameless). It's a valid observation.
Sure, I understand. I just think the word "dumb" is a little crude, but it's beside the point. I guess I'd want to hear more because "dumb" doesn't really say much. It's the equivalent of saying, "I just don't like it, okay!"

[Snakebeard Jackson]

sorry guys
I just don't like it, okay

[Kevin Briggs]

You already said that. Still nothing of note.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[8_stringer]

Well I think they look awesome. Much better than a carbon fiber hood on a Honda with a giant coffee can exhaust that sounds like a bumble bee. Much better use for carbon fiber in my mind. Where can one find even an A style new mad to play in the midwest? I was hoping to see one at Winfield but no such luck. Or maybe I was too busy picking.:D

[Keith Erickson]

Personally I think it looks smart but.....
...back the inquiring minds:

What kind of strings is the Mix F4 set up with?

[steve V. johnson]

Really dumb question... I wonder if the CF 'stripes' will all be diagonal the same way on the tops, or if on can ask if they go parallel to the neck, or... otherwise...?

Stupid damn picky detail question, I know... But the stripes look so nice going (longitudinally?) straight on the back...

I can't wait to play one of these. Any of 'em, actually.

Best wishes to P.Mix & Co!

stv

[MikeEdgerton]

sorry guys
I just don't like it, okay
It's ok not to like it, I was just thinking there was a certain part of it that you didn't like. I like plain mandolins with no binding (I like them with binding too) so, I could understand that as a reason. I was just wondering what part of the package you didn't care for, that's all.

I think that part of what attracts me to the Mix mandolins is the plain jane appaearance. It has that minimalist "just here to do business" look.

[Perry]

Hmmm maybe scrolls are best left to wooden mandos? I own a Mix A5 and I think it's killer looking but this one doesn't look quite right to me.

Having a scroll on a CF instrument begs the question: does the extra air chamber make a difference between the Mix F5 and the Mix A5?


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Keith Erickson]

I think that part of what attracts me to the Mix mandolins is the plain jane appaearance. It has that minimalist "just here to do business" look.
All things work best when they are kept simple- Mikhail Kalashnikov

...and Mike you nailed it #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[woodwizard]

I think I like it but I would like it a lot more if it didn't have that patern of lines across it. I think I would like it more if it was just black.
You know ... wouldn't it be really cool if you could duplicate an awesome wood pattern front and back & sides. They use to do that sort of thing with fiberglass boats. Looked almost like the real mohogany on some of those boats I have seen ... well at a distance anyway. Can you picture an awesome triple flame one piece back of carbon fiber... That would be too cool http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Walter]

I agree with Perry, I like the look of the A5 better. -The CF seems to "fit" the A-style body better. I played one a few weeks ago and liked the tone, playability, and thought it looked great.

[sgarrity]

I think it looks AWESOME!! Now the oval hole on the A4 model looks out of place. It looks too close to the fingerboard to me. I sure do wanna play one of these.....

[Tom C]

I think it looks better than I would have imagined. I like the dull finish. I notice the diagonal pattern on front and vertical on back. Why is that? Scarcity of good size Carbinferber trees?

[Four_Courses]

Where can one find even an A style new mad to play in the midwest?
Hey, 8-Stringer
I'm not sure where you are but I'm told Wisconsin is part of the midwest. They have a MIX A-5 at the Madison Music Company in Madison, WI
Webpage HERE (http://www.madisonmusic.com/)

When I told the sales guy there that I've been playing mandolin, he practically thrust the MIX A-5 in my hands.
He took it away just as quickly when he heard my mediocre playing. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I loved they way it felt and it was a joy to play. I didn't really like the sound of the bottom end on it though.
I think it would be awesome for a jazz mando but it just didn't sound right to me for bluegrass.

[8_stringer]

Thanks Joel. I'm in Nebraska though and don't get to Wisconsin very often. Once in my lifetime actually. I am hoping to find one to play here a little closer. Maybe less than a 8 hour drive. I have been wanting to play one ever since I heard they we're being made. If Yo-yo Ma plays a CF cello, there must be something good about the application of CF in other stringed instruments.
If you added a few layers of kevlar you could have a bulletproof mando.

[steve V. johnson]

Mike woodwizard wrote, "I think I like it but I would like it a lot more if it didn't have that patern of lines across it. I think I would like it more if it was just black."

I've seen painted CF on race cars... Conceivably, you could have these in colors, other finishes...

stv

[sgarrity]

The pics are up on Cotten's websire. Pretty darn cool if you ask me!

[Dan Voight]

I think it would look twice as good with some ivoroid binding. It would sharpen that scroll right up. Doesn't everyone agree?

[SWS]

Well I like the look of both the A and F, however; like the color of the F better. I am eager to play any of them.

I would imagine the cost of the F-4 would be in 5k neighborhood?

Do you think it'd be too much to ask for an octave...lol

[MikeEdgerton]

One of the ideas behind this mandolin is it's durability. If you add binding or paint it loses that. You could chip binding off, you could scratch paint. Right now you will have a hard time bruising this body.

[Mike Crocker]

My tastes are far from tradition bound so I like this mandolin's appearance, really like it. Chances are I'd accept its sound also since I like a wide variety of mandolin tones.

Wonder what it's like plugged in and amplified loud. What pickup would be best to my ears? What strings would I like on it? But most important, could I get one in the house under the keeper of the treasury's radar?

Peace, Mooh.

[Perry]

Wonder what it's like plugged in and amplified loud.

I can tell you that A5 (f holes) with a Schertler is the best sounding plugged-in mando sound I have gotten. Something about the way CF responds...dunno....it just works

Not sure if the oval hole would present feedback issues?

[Mike Crocker]

Perry, thanks.

One could fashion a groovy little soundhole plug like we often use with acoustic guitars to kill some feedback I suppose.

Peace, Mooh.

[mandroid]

the scroll dollop on the headstock is probably not going to get knocked off

with a short lapse of attention span, on that one, eh?

Note: Link to sellers website shows a non typical F headstock,
in a full view picture.

once again, ... Nevermind ..

[Eliot Greenspan]

Very interesting observation. I'd love to hear reports of a side by side blind taste testing of the A5 against the F5. Really be interesting to see if there's any substantive difference in sound/tone/volume. Scroll envy is one thing. W/ carved wood instruments there are just too many variables. But it seems that a CF Mix A5 and F5 tested side by side would take out a lot of those variables, and help to show us how much the extra air chamber actually contributes or subtracts sonically....

[Ted Eschliman]

I can tell you that A5 (f holes) with a Schertler is the best sounding plugged-in mando sound I have gotten. Something about the way CF responds...dunno....it just works.
Ditto.

[PaulD]

Very interesting observation. I'd love to hear reports of a side by side blind taste testing of the A5 against the F5. Really be interesting to see if there's any substantive difference in sound/tone/volume. Scroll envy is one thing. W/ carved wood instruments there are just too many variables. But it seems that a CF Mix A5 and F5 tested side by side would take out a lot of those variables, and help to show us how much the extra air chamber actually contributes or subtracts sonically....
I wonder how the scroll is constructed on a Mix. On a traditional F5 about 1/2 the scroll is filled with the headblock. I assume that's unnecessary with the CF construction. Maybe Mix put material in there to keep the volume the same... I would be interested to know.

pd

[red7flag]

I heard the scroll and A model and in my opinion neither came close to the sound of the Kimbles on the same table. To me the scroll was a bit weak in tone. The a sounded better but not what I would want. Was great talking with Will. He is a class act. He was nice enough let me play them and then show me how they should really be played when he played them.
Tony

[Perry]

in my opinion neither came close to the sound of the Kimbles

I bet; though the Mix's are quite a bit less expensive though aren't they?

I think the Mix is a great utility mandolin. I love it's portability (don't need a big heavy fancy Calton case),it's stability and it's versatility. It shines in a plugged-in envrionment but sounds just fine unplugged too.

Miami Steve should be playing a MIX with Bruce instead of one of those silly Ovations http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Mark Walker]

An acquaintance of mine has a totally synthetic guitar which sounds very good, looks a bit blah, and is great for campfires, outdoor venues where rain might occur, sweaty afternoons when you're dripping it on the instrument and so on. #(The primary reason he bought it - or so he told me.)

Not to minimize the Mix F4 (or A for that matter) at ALL, I'm personally not geeked about them from an 'aesthetic' perspective. #(The synthetic guitar isn't much to look at either). # However, it is an innovative concept and for sure will have (at the very least) a significant 'niche' market and demand. #

Would I keep one if - for example - I'd won the one from the drawing a few weeks ago? # Absolutely! #

I wish the company all the best with all their products!

[PaulD]

Would I keep one if - for example - I'd won the one from the drawing a few weeks ago? Absolutely!
I agree... hypothetically speaking! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Frankly I do like the look of the F5 and A5. I wonder if there's a way to dress up the oval hole on the F4, though... it does look like it needs something to me.

pd

[Mark Walker]

Would I keep one if - for example - I'd won the one from the drawing a few weeks ago? # Absolutely!
I agree... hypothetically speaking! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Frankly I do like the look of the F5 and A5. I wonder if there's a way to dress up the oval hole on the F4, though... it does look like it needs something to me.

pd
Paul - I think you nailed it. #Something to make it look less like a 'void' in the middle of the top! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Gibsonman]

<Comment removed. Violates board posting guidelines>

[rekx]

I like the look, and I really like the concept of a utility mandolin. I am really interested in purchasing one of these mix's for exactly that purpose...travel, sweat, heat, etc...but $6K is waaaay to much for a utility mando. I think the price needs to come down significantly.

[JEStanek]

If you're wanting utility get the A model at $3500. The Mix is the bargain... the other CF mando is almost 1/2 again more expensive! If I had the extra cash... I would have one.

Jamie

[Keith Erickson]

I was wondering what the difference in the sustain is between the CF f-holes and oval.

Scott,

Would you mind sharing with us your impressions/ thoughts on the F4?

Thank you,

[Jim Broyles]

...Someone made that mandolin and took a lot of time to do it. Nonetheless, it was someone who has been a fixture in the mandolin community for a long time...
I don't want to hijack the thread, but herein lies one of my chief complaints with this forum. Being a fixture in the mandolin community does not immunize one from making a "dumb looking" mandolin, nor does the fact that a lot of time was taken to make it. I do not feel the Mix F4 looks dumb, I just don't particularly care for its appearance, but there is nothing sacrosanct about mandolins which are built by a popular builder which elevates them to an above reproach status.

[MikeEdgerton]

I can agree with that. I happen to dislike a ton of mandolins out there. When it gets down to it and I examine what I don't like it usually is that they don't look like a Gibson. I've accepted the fact that I have my own personal tastes. Every now and then it's nice to hear why some people don't like a particular design.

[Brad Weiss]

I happen to dislike a ton of mandolins out there. When it gets down to it and I examine what I don't like it usually is that they don't look like a Gibson. I've accepted the fact that I have my own personal tastes.
Honestly, that's frequently what I DO like about many of the mandolins out there (and at my house) that I'm partial to. To each his own (or two or three more..!)

[Scott Tichenor]

Scott,

Would you mind sharing with us your impressions/ thoughts on the F4?
I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on this instrument or those of any other builder for that matter, and you rarely see me do so. Lots of others will have the chance to play it.

Unrelated to your post or comments, Keith, I going to state right out that it's crass, inconsiderate and rude for our community to make comments in public (read, online) about any instrument or builder and call their work "dumb" or "stupid". It's a peculiar brand of inappropriate behavior the web is really good at and is driven by individuals that refuse to be responsible for words which can be hurtful to others. The thought is "none one knows me, so what the hell do I care?" On top of it, it's a form of trolling. Nothing bothers some people more than seeing others enjoy something. Be best I stop there or I'd say what I really think.

[JGWoods]

I love the Mix mandos and wish Peter and his crew the best. I think an A style oval hole is in my future, and if I get one I'm going to keep it in a wooden case http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

if I get one I'm going to keep it in a wooden case...
I like that idea.

[PaulD]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but herein lies one of my chief complaints with this forum. Being a fixture in the mandolin community does not immunize one from making a "dumb looking" mandolin, nor does the fact that a lot of time was taken to make it. I do not feel the Mix F4 looks dumb, I just don't particularly care for its appearance, but there is nothing sacrosanct about mandolins which are built by a popular builder which elevates them to an above reproach status.
From my perspective, I'm sure Peter knows that the look of CF is not going to be everybody's cup of tea and is not offended by constructive criticism. "It looks dumb" just comes off as disrespectful, but ultimately I wrote it off as someone who has trouble articulating his or her thoughts.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, as Scott originally stated, the pics are not very good. Due to the lack of clarity it looks like a muddy gray with no detail in the scroll, arching, or CF weave. While it's still not going to appeal to everybody, I thought the CF looked wonderful when the pics of the first prototype were posted and when I looked at the New-MAD site. They're even more beautiful in person. I posted yesterday that I think it needs binding or a rosette to set off the oval hole, but maybe I would feel differently if we had a nice, crisp photo. I'm sure that will come soon enough.

pd

[sam60]

Being a relative new guy to the mandolin scene, I like the looks of the
a style mandolins....but saying that some f styles do appeal too. If i had the choice between this one and the a style.......................the a style would be my pick

[Keith Erickson]

I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on this instrument or those of any other builder for that matter, and you rarely see me do so. Lots of others will have the chance to play it.

Unrelated to your post or comments, Keith, I going to state right out that it's crass, inconsiderate and rude for our community to make comments in public (read, online) about any instrument or builder and call their work "dumb" or "stupid". It's a peculiar brand of inappropriate behavior the web is really good at and is driven by individuals that refuse to be responsible for words which can be hurtful to others. The thought is "none one knows me, so what the hell do I care?" On top of it, it's a form of trolling. Nothing bothers some people more than seeing others enjoy something. Be best I stop there or I'd say what I really think.
I beg your pardon Scott, but please do not lump me in with those who discredited this instrument or any other instruments that has been brought to the cafe for posting.

Are there mandolins out there that I have played and I don't care for? Yes!!! ...but I'll keep those comments to myself.

Personally I find the Mix very intriguing. If I remember correctly, you posted some thoughts on the A5...

...well I figured you would do the same for the F4.

I had some quesions on the sound difference between the A5 and F4 but.......

...you know what? I give up http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I'm going on vacation for a while...

[Bill Snyder]

Keith he said unrelated to your post or comments - I take that to mean his tongue lashing is not directed at you.

[markishandsome]

The thing is that Peter Mix isn't just some popular builder, he's an active member of this forum and will probably read this thread if he hasn't already. He's invested a few years of his life and probably racked up a mountain of personal debt for this project, and now he's going to log onto the cafe and have someone tell him his mandolin looks dumb? Constructive criticism is one thing, a slap in the face is another. I once posted a picture of a mandolin I made on here and a couple other members came right out and called it ugly. Nobody likes being made fun of, and it makes the cafe a lot less fun if people are afraid to show off their work.

[otterly2k]

I'd love to have the chance to try one of the Mix mandos... A or F. I think they look pretty cool, although I have the same reaction to the diagonal lines as some others do. One thing I notice about the F is that the points and edges seem to be a bit rounded and not sharp... I can't tell if that's just the photo, or if the instrument is really like that. I think I prefer the sharp edges/points that we see on most wooden instruments to the rounded/dulled edges look. To that end, I think it works better on the A mando than the F which has more of those details.
just my 2c.

[Scott Tichenor]

I beg your pardon Scott, but please do not lump me in with those who discredited this instrument or any other instruments that has been brought to the cafe for posting.
I didn't.

The post as written is meant to convey that I think it's inappropriate and rude for the general community to use poorly constructed descriptive terms such as "dumb", etc., and I stand by that as written yesterday. You weren't included in the comment and I thought I'd made that clear.

It's not a NewMAD/Mix thing either. The kind of behavior that gets exhibited in that fashion in many of our discussions simply turns people off, and I for one am tired of seeing web forums that melt into puddles of anger, name calling, profanity, lack of serious content. And believe me, there are lots of them. I'll shut this one down before I allow it to get to that point.

[h2o-X]

I appreciate that Peter is pushing the envelope of mandolin building materials.

I wonder if using a weave with more Kevlar or Spectra, compared to carbonfiber would color the tone differently? Or would the use of more or less resin play a tonal role? I can only assume that thinckness of lay-up contributes to the sound.

[MikeEdgerton]

I can only assume that thinckness of lay-up contributes to the sound.
That has to be a valid assumption. It still has to do with the top and back vibrating. The materials change, the underlying science doesn't.

[morgan]

"I wonder if using a weave with more Kevlar or Spectra, compared to carbonfiber would color the tone differently?"

I had a chance to play several Mix mandos at Cape Cod mandocamp. All A's. One was made with Kevlar. In addition to having a different color tone (it was redder), it was also (IMHO) the best sounding of the lot; seemed to have a bit more ooomph to it. I think Peter liked it best too, although that may have been for particular tunes rather than in general.

[h2o-X]

I guess this is justiably "on topic"...

http://halua.no/gallery.htm
These Halua carbon fiber Weissenborn syle guitars were introduced a couple years ago. Like Peter's instruments, I think they have nice aesthetics, very stealth and space age. More importantly, based on the MP3's, they sound very nice as well.

[MikeEdgerton]

The case is probably cooler than the guitar, and it's pretty cool. I've been a Weissenborn fan for years.

[h2o-X]

Perhaps Mr. Mix will se the Halua Weissenborn case and come up with a mandolin version.

[ssjk]

Thanks Joel. #I'm in Nebraska though and don't get to Wisconsin very often. Once in my lifetime actually. #I am hoping to find one to play here a little closer. #Maybe less than a 8 hour drive. #I have been wanting to play one ever since I heard they we're being made. #If Yo-yo Ma plays a CF cello, there must be something good about the application of CF in other stringed instruments. #
If you added a few layers of kevlar you could have a bulletproof mando.
At least a little bit closer than Wisconsin is Des Moines, where I have an A5. # Depending on where you are it's only a couple of hours! #Be happy to let any competent or even just curious player give it a whirl- I'd like to hear it played by somebody other than me. #

Here's my short review, by the way. #Much better looking in person than in photos. #My wife described it as elegant - she likes the black. #Most noticable thing is indeed the sustain, especially on the higher end. #Definitely a different voice than a fine wooden instrument. #I think it's a little "sweeter" sounding on the high end, maybe due to the sustain. Low end is not as distinctive. Haven't heard it amplified.

Full disclosure: I'm not a dealer and the instrument is one I purchased. #But I did make a minor investment with Peter during the idea stage. So I have just slightly more than a rooting interest. #But if you're interested let me know and I'll tell you how to find me.

[Chris Baird]

I believe I will be seeing Paul's good fortune this weekend. I'm excited to try a carbon fibre mandolin out. My hats off to Peter for leading out on this. Breaking trail is never easy.

[Ted Eschliman]

I'm in Nebraska though and don't get to Wisconsin very often. Once in my lifetime actually. #I am hoping to find one to play here a little closer.
Is downtown Lincoln close enough? Happy to show off my beloved Mix A5. PM me to arrange.

[PaulD]

I believe I will be seeing Paul's good fortune this weekend. I'm excited to try a carbon fibre mandolin out. My hats off to Peter for leading out on this. Breaking trail is never easy.
We're still coming, but we won't get in until late-ish tonight. I'm looking forward to getting together and letting you check out the Mix. If anyone else on this thread is heading to Moab this weekend, we'll be at the park Sat. & Sun. and the Ramada jam. You can try out the Mix and form your own opinion.

We'll be traveling in a Volkswagen Vanagon with 3 mandos, my fiddle, octave mando, guitar, and banjo. I know this is stupid, but it occurred to me that it gives new meaning to "Band In A Box." Yes, I hear the collective groan rising across the Web! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

pd

[Mark Walker]

The post as written is meant to convey that I think it's inappropriate and rude for the general community to use poorly constructed descriptive terms such as "dumb", etc., and I stand by that as written yesterday.

It's not a NewMAD/Mix thing either. The kind of behavior that gets exhibited in that fashion in many of our discussions simply turns people off, and I for one am tired of seeing web forums that melt into puddles of anger, name calling, profanity, lack of serious content. And believe me, there are lots of them. I'll shut this one down before I allow it to get to that point.
Scott's comments reflect what a class act he is, and his astute observations are spot-on regarding how some visitors to this (and other similar sites) often generate comments to flame or troll.

I think most of us agree there is a right way and a wrong way to convey our thoughts. #I'd indicated earlier (regarding synthentic instruments' appearances) "...I'm personally not geeked about them from an 'aesthetic' perspective." #(And I felt kind of bad even saying that, though I wasn't 'rude and crude' in any way.) #
Scott is right in reigning in any poor behavior by those posting, and if he kills the thread, so be it.

Kudos to Scott Tichenor for a great site, and for somehow riding herd on all the posts, threads and keeping us all on the up-and-up.

Back to the NewMAD/Mix mandolins, I DO like the look of F4 mandolins, and while the 'finish' (or lack of it) doesn't excite me on the Mix F4, I'm still intrigued with the synthetic durability inherent in these creations. #

Like I said earlier, if I won one, I'd not decline it! #(Or as Patrick F. McManus once said, "Never sniff a gift fish!" #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif )

I hope someday to see and play one; don't know what my chances are here in Michigan. #(Unless one showed up at Elderly's in Lansing...?)

EDIT: #Scott, do you have a picture of the headstock on the MAD F4? #Did I miss that somewhere in the thread? #Thanks.

[JEStanek]

Pictures are up on the Cotten Website. (http://www.cottenmusic.com/inventory.html)

Jamie

[Mark Walker]

Thanks Jamie. # I found the PHOTO. (http://www.cottenmusic.com/images/Misc/Mix%20F4%20FF.jpg)
That label inside sure stands out against that dark color, doesn't it? #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Intriguing! #Now if one would show up at Elderly's in Lansing, my curiosity would get the better of me and I'd wheel over there and check one out in person!

[mandolooter]

Yea Im jonesing to get my hands on one but Im a few grand short for now.

[JeffS]

These CF mandolins have me scratching my head. Probably the most innovative and original looking mandolins that I have ever seen were Rigel and they were made out of wood. Now you have these copies of classic Gibson designs but made out of modern composites.

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[JEStanek]

If you ask me, and you didn't the Mix mando is a good evolution for the instrument. Durable, good tone, sleek. It is a tool and just like any other tool it should be useful. Take that mouse's spoon... It's doing it correctly. Could the other end fit in its mouth? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Jamie

[steve V. johnson]

Jeff,

It makes sense to me... I think that in new ventures it can be important to limit the variables, the unknowns, so given that they're charting new territory with the materials, they'd begin with designs that are pretty well documented.

It was sort of the same with the Rigel... #but inside out. #They were working with a new design iteration, and were looking to innovate with the finishes, so they stayed with well-proven materials.

After years of screwing up experiments by changing too many things at once and then not being able to closely quantify the results of each step, I've come to value the process of limiting the variables step by step... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

There might also be a marketing component... #Folks may feel more accepting of the some radical innovations if they're in a familiar shape/package. #

So far, the way the New Mad mandolins project has been rolled out makes good sense to me.

Maybe there are some lessons learned from the Rigel experience in there somewhere, too...

I'm nowhere near the inside of Peter Mix's head, so these last bits are all rank speculation...

stv

[Andrew Faltesek]

I think the CF mandos are intriguing, and are attractive in a modern, minimalist fashion. Being long used to the sound of wooden instruments, I remember mild annoyance at certain aspects of the tone produced by my Ovation in lower registers; but it sounded good overall and the action was fantastic. My bandmates seemed to regard it as a toy, and would entertain few positive comments...it was Martin, Gibson, Fender, or Guild all the way. If a buddy hadn't cracked the finish near the bridge, I'd still have it and it would no doubt sound better.

Two decades from now when all the premium tonewoods are gone or in the hands of a select few, we may need all the carbon fiber instruments luthiers can make.

I like the idea that the New Mads are all carbon instead of employing a tonewood for the top like the Ovations; it makes for a unified look.

I'd really like to see and play one, and hear the tone. What is the speculation on tonal changes with carbon fiber tops as they vibrate and age? Is there any research on it?

Are there any issues with the stiffness or hardness of the material such as fine cracks or weak areas due to constant vibration or flexing, or exposure to UV light? The stuff is very tough and flexible, I just don't have much background on the properties of CF materials formulated for instruments.

[Michael Wolf]

Sorry for the negativ view, but I think if we have no tonewoods anymore in the future we might have other problems than how to make mandolins.
At that point I´d be really interested in the question from what materials the CF is made. I mean the carbon core and epoxy. Can these be manufactured ecolgical? Or are these strictly products of the petro industrie? And does they have a limited live span? Is it toxic by any means? Maybe some weird questions, I realize that it´s difficult for me to find the correct technical terms in English. But I hope it makes sense and someone could give me the information.

[Ted Eschliman]

These CF mandolins have me scratching my head. #Probably the most innovative and original looking mandolins that I have ever seen were Rigel and they were made out of wood. #Now you have these copies of classic Gibson designs but made out of modern composites.
Not going to argue the innovative prowess of Pete Langdell and the Rigel mandolin lines; those were truly ground breaking and I remain a fan. I still snicker at the notion we must never mess with "classic" designs. That Lloyd Loar guy, he had some nerve messing with "classic" when he used F holes from violins, moved the bridge closer to the center, floated the fingerboard over the top, and lengthened the neck.

Who did he think he was, messing with centuries of tradition?!

http://jazzmando.com/images/Msmiley.gif

[mandolooter]

Yea, i hear ya....WTH?