Kentucky km-1000 and j bovier... hmmm

[Rick Cadger]

due to inconvenient circumstances i was unable to get to TAMCO as i'd hoped, so i ordered a Kentucky KM-1000 as i had heard great things about them. as usual, TAMCO service was great and John got one sent to me, which arrived the next day.

the KM-1000 is a lovely mandolin - clearly a quality job. the set up was near perfect and everything looked and felt great.

i was surprised that it was both quieter than my Fullerton Gloucester, and that the tone was less full. i am sure that, given time it would open up and sing like a bird, but by the time that happens i will have saved up for a Gibson or Collings.

as this was like an interim purchase to satisfy MAS while i'm saving for the mandolin, i considered sending it back.

i got a mate round with a bunch of mandolins and compared them all to the KM-1000. i was well impressed by his J Bovier F. it was about as loud as my Gloucester with an even better balance to the tone. i told him i was inclined to send the KM back and get a Bovier.

"it'll open up," he said.

i'm sure he was right, but it had a long way to open, so i did it: i sent it back to TAMCO and asked Trevor to send a Bovier.

i should say that, even though he had a really hectic week one way or another, Trevor was a total gentleman and was very patient with my seemingly insane decision. he answered all my questions, and, once again, TAMCO had the instrument to me the following day.

The Bovier will do me fine while i'm saving. i am very impressed. to be frank, build quality seems to be similar the KM-1000. it also seemed to be rather louder, once i had changed the strings.

i had a wobbly moment when i first played it... i thought there were some high frets at the body end of the fretboard, and a strange buzz despite a medium action. turns out the trussrod was just totally slack, so it was rattling in its channel and there was too much neck relief. a few minutes with an allen wrench and that small detail was sorted.

the nut isn't as nice as the pearl one on the KM-1000, but i'll be making a custom one when time allows. when the J74s have played in so i get to hear the proper tone i'll try some J75s - which, incidentally, didn't work well on my Gloucester, to my surprise.

so, first impression is great. i'll report more later, just in case anyone's interested! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fmontale]

By the way which Bovier model have you purchased ?
The problem you got with the trussrod seems to mean they don't pay a close attention to the setup...
For now I own an epiphone MM50 and I'm hesitating between:
- a bovier
- a lebeda
- a pavlu
What do you think ?

[Rick Cadger]

no, i'd say that TAMCO usually do a good setup. i've bought from them before and played mandos in their store. this one either slipped through unnoticed, or the setup shifted in transit. TAMCO is a quality store.

the Bovier is a Tradition. it's great so far. the others you name i have no experience of.

[DryBones]

flattop,
I had the same truss rod issue with mine. Got it right during a setup I had done when I got it even though it supposedly had a setup done before shiping to me. Watch the tuner button screws too. I had 1 fall out shortly after getting it so I tightened them all down. Other than that mine is perfect for me. I too changed the strings. I never liked SIT strings so I went with EXP74's and what a sound difference!
I have the satin antique caramel finish Tradition, which way did you go? show a picture,man! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rick Cadger]

no probs. will get some pics up in a while. it's a gloss antique burst.

a couple of observations for those looking for an authentic-ish tribute to a Gibson, although both of these are very, very nice mandolins at great prices, neither is a straight F5 knock-off:

the KM-1000 has a nice recurve, but the body is about 1/4" shallower than the Bovier, and than the Gibsons i've played.

the Bovier has the full-depth body, but like the Fullerton, no appreciable recurve.

the Bovier is around 1/2 the price of the KM-1000, but i'd say either one is a bargain. Asian instruments have come along way!

[DryBones]

I noticed the deeper body on my JBovier when I first got it compared to the Eastman I owned at the time. I wonder if that helps explain some of its tonal quality? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Rick Cadger]

here are a couple of pics. for some reason I am not good at indoor photos...

first the Bovier tradition, then the Bovier with its cousin the Fullerton Gloucester.

http://www.diylivemusic.com/images/bovier.jpg

http://www.diylivemusic.com/images/bothmandos.jpg

i'll try to get some better ones in natural light later.

[Bigtuna]

When I first got my km-1000, I too was a little disappointed with the sound as well. This is even after I bought a used (somewhat played in) one off of the classifieds here at the Mandolincafe, which I must say was a very smooth transaction (thanks, David B.). Now that I've had it for several months and played it daily it has finally started to open up and sound a little more "woody". When I first got it, it sounded a little "thin". But after changing out the strings with some the extended play J74s and working on the bridge and setup, I finally got it were it needed to be for my style of playing. As of now, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I guess with all the hype surrounding the km-1000, I was expecting a much bigger sound. I have a feeling I'll keep it for several years and it will make a great second mandolin. But, I'm still looking and saving up my money for a good used Gibson F5 with the wide neck or a new/used Collings mf5. So with all that said, here are some of the things I like and dislike about the km-1000.

The good: Looks great (very nice flamed back and burst on the top), stays in tune, the neck has a really nice feel to it, great workmanship for an import and the money.

The bad: Not to happy with the fret job (I don't like the way the plastic from the binding meets the fret ends, i.e. the frets don't overlap the binding), the frets could be a little wider for my taste aswell, the finish is super light (I've put so many pick marks, etc on it in a very short time and some the finish has come off one of the points entirely)

All in all it’s still a great mandolin for the money. Much better than my old Washburn. In my opinion there are still some bugs to work out on the new km-1000's. Hopefully mine will keep opening up. I've even thought about going the de-damping route (http://www.siminoff.net/pages/siminoff_parts9.break-in.html). I'll keep you guys posted if I do. I also must say, this is a great website and I've enjoyed reading everyone comments!

[cooper4205]

I've heard in can take the Red Spruce a while to open up

[Rick Cadger]

I've heard in can take the Red Spruce a while to open up
that's what Trevor from TAMCO told me, and so did my friend. the same is no doubt true of any green mando. it just struck me that the KM-1000 had a LOT of opening to do before it acquired the volume of my Gloucester...

i'll be playing the Bovier long and hard over the coming months to get it played in and opened up ASAP.

[DryBones]

make sure to try some EXP74's on that JBovier http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I just took a perfectly good set off just to try the Firewires everybody is talking about. They seem ok/good but I am not sure if I will like them better than the EXP74's. It's only been a day so I need to give them some time to settle in.

[Rick Cadger]

for comparison i put fresh strings on the Fullerton Gloucester at the same time as i changed those on the Tradition.

the Bovier is as loud as the Gloucester already, and the Gloucester has been well played in and projects better than it did when new, so i have great hopes for the Bovier's development as i bang away on it!

the Bovier has stronger bass, but (now i understand the 'drier' chop thing) i think the Gloucester has a slightly drier and more percussive chop. the Bovier chop is still clean but it's a bit chunkier.

the Fullerton has marginally sweeter treble and rich mids, while the Bovier's strengths are that strong bass and some cutting treble. the mid range is there, but not as prominent as the Gloucester.

i'm happy with both for bluegrass, but i'd probably pick the Fullerton for Irish sessions.

these complement each other nicely, and from my memory of how much the Gloucester's sound has developed even over the few months i've had it, i am really looking forward to seeing how the Tradition changes. i'm playing it for at least a couple of hours a day at the moment, so i hope it'll open up some in a few months. that said, even if there was no change i'd be happy.

i think i have been very lucky to find two such nice mandolins for the prices i paid.

i also seem to be fortunate in that i always get great service from the people i buy from.

havin' fun here! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[DryBones]

are you still running the factory SIT strings on the JBovier? I found the tone definitely got better on mine when I went to the EXP74's. As a follow-up the tone is quite similar with the Firewires as well and the Firewires seems smoother/easier to play and they stay in tune, even that dang ol' A string. perhaps it being a 16 helps as well. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rick Cadger]

are you still running the factory SIT strings on the JBovier? ...
no way. D'Addarios went on as soon as i got it!

J74s at the mo' but i'll try J75s next time for comparison. my preferences in strings are pretty simple. i prefer uncoated phosphor bronze. i've tried coated strings, steels, monels... always gone back to the standard J74s so far.

[SGraham]

Flattop--
You might be surprised (in a good way) at the tone you'll get from the J-75's.

Steve

[Rick Cadger]

Flattop--
You might be surprised (in a good way) at the tone you'll get from the J-75's.

Steve
that would be cool.

they didn't work out on the Fullerton Gloucester when i tried them on that. they just took all the life and sparkle out of the sound and added nothing to the volume - even after i'd tweaked the set up and checked stuff like bridge fit and string slots.

obviously different mandos like different strings. when the J74s that are currently on the Bovier start to deteriorate i will replace them with J75s and see what's what.

on guitar i always used to fit fairly heavy strings for the tonal benefits. i've been surprised over the last couple of years as it has become clear that things aren't so simple where mandolins are concerned.

[Rick Cadger]

oh, i forgot to say, the J Bovier was used in combat for the first time on Tuesday. i took it to our weekly jam and played the heck out of it.

it chops really well, and when i got someone else to play it for a while i was delighted at the sound. projection and cut through were very good. so far i am very pleased.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kevin K]

Has anyone else A b'd the KM1000 against the Bovier Tradition?

[Rick Cadger]

An update.

Being a tinkerer I have thinned the gloss finish on the Tradition and buffed it back up, but to a lower gloss that's not so dazzling. It now has a bone nut, a Cumberland Acoustics bridge and J75 strings. All this has made a significant difference to the sound. It is louder and both bass and treble are more pronounced. Mid-range is not quite so prominent. It is definitely significantly louder than the KM-1000 I tried.

The downside to the mods is that it'll be harder to decide what changes from the original tone/sound are due to opening up and what are due to bedding in and other changes linked to the mods I did. I am exceptionally pleased with this mandolin now I have it tweaked to what I consider its best advantage.

Additionally, I just got 3 Wegen M150 picks. I used one in a jam last night for the first time. My Tradition barked and chopped like a far more expensive mandolin. If I had to point to any weakness it would be that I wouldn't mind a bit of a fuller, sweeter mid-range for picking slower, melodic tunes - but that's asking for all things from a cheap mando. Overall, my summary would be:

Marks out of 10 (10 being the best mandolin I ever played - a Collings which sadly wasn't mine)

Fit/finish: 7.5
Playability: 8.5 now I've tweaked it. 7 out of the box.
Sound: 8 now tweaked, and I'm hoping for some open-up
Value: gotta be a 9

for comparison, the same figures from my memory from the very brief (one day) I spent with the KM-1000

Fit/finish: 8 due to a few minor binding issues in awkward spots
Playability: a good 8 out of the box. A good average set up, easily tweakable for at least a 9 I'd reckon
Sound: 8 out of the box, but very tight. That red spruce should open up nicely though.
Value: I'd say another 9

And the Fullerton Gloucester, just for fun:

Fit/finish: 5.5 Next to nothing spent on cosmetics, and rough f-holes
Playability: 8 now I've tweaked it. 6 out of the box.
Sound: 7 now tweaked
Value: gotta be another 9! Sooo cheap.

Why didn't I keep the KM-1000? A few things.

It had great potential, but was very tight. The volume had a lot of growing to do and I really needed a loud mando for a couple of acoustic dates. Also, when I am back playing amplified gigs I want to fit a permanent pickup in the mando. The KM-1000 is so nice, and has such nice fittings that I wouldn't want to screw up that silver plated TP by shoving an endpin jack through it.

Lastly, the Bovier was half the price for a mando that was loud enough right NOW! And if I want to get a pickup put in it I won't sweat any carving up of the hardware.

I'm now saving for the next step up. I currently envisage that being something like a Collings MT or a Gibson A9. That said, the Kentucky had the feel of a real, quality instrument and now I'm in no hurry for the volume I could be tempted to go for that and work on opening up the red spruce potential I've heard about.

[Stephen Perry]

KM-1000 are quite tight. Both I've had were. Benefited greatly from loosening up and tweeking. Then they were both really quite impressive, especially for the stronger players. Here's what one purchaser thought:

"Hello Steve:

I purchased the MandovooDoo'd KM 1000 you auctioned on ebay and I wanted to tell you how much I love this instrument! It looks terrific and classic - fit & finish is excellent for the price range and (more importantly) plays/intonates beautifully and (even more importantly) sounds amazing! You have really all the credit to yourself, I believe, for the sound of this instrument and I feel your Mandovoodoo is a major breakthrough in mandolin optimization. It's so refreshing an artisan such as yourself can transfer the delicate work of fine violin tuning and adjustment to its mandolin cousins!

My sincerest thanks again and deepest appreciation,

E"

Both this one and the first were quite quiet and subdued to begin with. Certainly just playing them in works. Most of the volume jump on these came from simply flexing the plates repeatedly. The bottom end really opens up.

Just don't want anyone to get the idea these are bad mandolins. Just stiff ones. Like the other red spruce instruments I've worked on. The Eastman MD815V is the same way for example. Tight and really likes being worked a bit.

[Bigtuna]

What do you mean by "simply flexing the plates repeatedly"?

[Fretbear]

Regarding these new Km-1000's, although I have never played one (I did used to own an original '84 model) it must be kept in mind that they are absolutely new, and have to be given time to realize that they are no longer trees. If they are properly built and have red spruce tops, they are going to have to have the snot wailed out of them for a year or so to know what you really have on your hands. This will be hard on anyone who just wants a new, good sounding mandolin right now, but it is the nature of the beast. If a mandolin sounds really loud right out of the box, there is a chance you may have just gotten lucky, but there is also a chance the top may have been carved too thin and won't mature into what could be a potentially fuller voice in the future. Something like Steve's voodoo could help weed out the dogs.

[Stephen Perry]

The top certainly wasn't thin on either of the KM1000 I've had through. Nor on the Eastman MD815V. I'd have taken them thinner myself, and probably used lighter braces on the MD815V!

Flexing the plate question: I flex the top and back with the heel of my hand. Gets some of the initial stiffness out and settles things in a bit. Don't break anything.

On "sounding loud" - often a noisy mandolin sounds louder. Clean up the sound a bit and it may sound less loud, but actually be a little louder as far as ability to produce a given sound pressure. Noise comes across as loud for many people.

[Eric W]

Hi folks, I'm the happy KM 1000 customer Steve quotes above and having never played the KM 1000 before Mandovoodoo I can't comment on it's earlier stiffness. #It came to me with a sound I liked and close to what I hear in my head and on the records I like. #I attribute that to Steve's process because this mando came to me nothing like the comments I've read concerning the stiffness of the current KM 1000's. I'm playing it a lot (both hard and soft - daily) and it is getting bigger sounding (I do go at it fairly hard with a heavy pic). #I really, really like this mandolin and as is often said here, be it Mandovoodoo or not, a first-rate set up from a quality luthier like Steve makes all the difference in the critical first weeks of a new mando! The Mandovoodoo give you a great head start on the break in of a new instrument.

Thanks again for a great mando Steve!

edit for spelling

[Stephen Perry]

They are rather dishy for mandolins at that price point. Too many are visual sizzle and not much else!

[Kbone]

I noticed the deeper body on my JBovier when I first got it compared to the Eastman I owned at the time. I wonder if that helps explain some of its tonal quality? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Hi Jason, I was wondering if that's your ' Bovier" playing on your ' My space" backround track. I like a dry and punchie (s?) tone & that's what I heard on your site. thanks..

[DryBones]

sorry,no. I wish I could play that well. That is all from the plugin player. The person playing is a member here though. try searching for Freemando or Ethan Smith. Or even better he will read this and make contact. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I found him. He goes by Ethanopia here so you can find and contact him directly through the member directory.

[Kero]

Flexing the plate question: I flex the top and back with the heel of my hand. Gets some of the initial stiffness out and settles things in a bit. Don't break anything.
I've done that before jams, to make my Gloucester sound mellow a bit - works - but stiffens up in few hours...

[Rick Cadger]

I daren't do it to my Gloucester. The top looks so thin - although there's no sign at all of it complaining about the load it has to take. The Bovier is developing a really loud chop, but I think some of that is down to how my technique has been slightly affected by the Wegen picks.

[Kero]

very gently, with my thumbs..

the process called kerowoodoo tm. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Kero]

The Bovier is developing a really loud chop, but I think some of that is down to how my technique has been slightly affected by the Wegen picks.
you have a video clip about your jbovier, i dont think i heard them in action..?