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f5joe
Feb-03-2004, 5:59am
Apologies for my rant:

Seems like those with "expensive" mandolins are dunned here at the 'old cafe. Seems like everyone has to be in a box. If you're a "good" player you're allowed to have an expensive mandolin. If not, then not. What happened to collectors and patrons of the arts? Somebody please outline the rules so I can follow them. Please!

Now I believe I understand why many of the highly knowledgeable and experienced mando players out there are not participating these days.

Rant off.

Joe Previtera

BenE
Feb-03-2004, 6:07am
Agreed....Who cares! Reminds me of grade school and who had the "cool" lunch box...
OKAY...all you "Evil Knevil" kids at this table...."Scooby's" over here...."Dukes of Hazard" kids don't talk to the "Fall Guy" kids! Don't even bring up the "My Pretty Pony" folks!

Some strange threads lately....Must be the full moon on Friday!

John Flynn
Feb-03-2004, 6:18am
I don't think there are any "rules." I do think there is a dynamic and it is simple: You can own and play any instrument you want and feel however you choose to feel about it. But, like it or not, everyone else has the right to make thier own judgements about you as a result. It works that way in every other part of life, why not here? If you don't care about anyone else's judgements, that's fine, everyone's happy. But if you didn't care, why would you have started a thread about it? Hmmm...

BenE
Feb-03-2004, 6:27am
But if you didn't care, why would you have started a thread about it? Hmmm...
Read again...He didn't say anywhere in his post that he didn't care!!!

I think what is being implied is don't judge a mandolin player by what is on the headstock!

I have a dream.......

John Flynn
Feb-03-2004, 6:46am
BenE:

I realize he didn't say that. It was intended as an ironic statement.

As to your idea about, "don't judge a mandolin player by what is on the headstock," in a perfect world, I would love to agree with you. But in the real world, people do judge and the judgements usually go the other way. It's usually the people with the big name headstocks that are making negative judgements about people playing the imports, by referring to them as "POS" or whatever and looking down thier noses at people in jams. These recent threads seem to illustrate that when the judgements are going up the food chain, there is a lot more whining about it than when it goes down the food chain.

LeftCoastMark
Feb-03-2004, 6:50am
Go practice.

Ken Sager
Feb-03-2004, 7:08am
One of my first public performances on mandolin I played an Epiphone. I've listened to the recording (done through the board by a professional sound guy) of that show many times, and I'm always surprised by the tone of that Epi.

Anyway, after the show, somebody told me I was good enough to be playing a nice mandolin and offered me their Summit to try. The Summit was a nice mando, but I still laugh about that, especially with how good that POS Epiphone sounded.

Isn't it the case that folks are always trying to convert someone to their point of view to validate that same point of view? Strength in numbers... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Best,
Ken

Brookside
Feb-03-2004, 7:28am
I had the Star Trek lunch box. I longed for an Evil Knevil. The Star Trek is worth $500-$900 today. The Evil Knevil is worth $25.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Who's the coolest now?

Scotti Adams
Feb-03-2004, 7:37am
..remember boys and girls..."The mandolin doesnt make the man"......nor does dying with the most toys or "the best most expensive" mando....make you the winner....just play 'em if you have them and be happy....life is much too short... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

creekwater
Feb-03-2004, 7:38am
I just wished someone would give me a good one. Then I would ride away into the sunset, never to be seen or heard, or fussed at again. Ain't controversy great?

f5joe
Feb-03-2004, 7:50am
My point is that it REALLY doesn't matter what you play. Play what you want. You have to satisfy you. What's most important is playing.

I'm here to celebrate the mandolin. For me, there's entirely too much brand focus. We should all be willing to share knowledge and excitement about these wonderful objects. It's all fun.

Joe

doanepoole
Feb-03-2004, 9:10am
It's been said before, and worth saying again. As a community, we are too brand-centric.

Lets all tape over our headstocks and get back to pickin-and-a-grinnin!

Feb-03-2004, 9:16am
"Lets all tape over our headstocks and get back to pickin-and-a-grinnin! "

Egawds man........ I can't do that.....then folks would be asking me "is that a Gibson?"......... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

doanepoole
Feb-03-2004, 9:22am
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif well, at least noone will have to ask, "Is that a Rigel?"

Tim Saxton
Feb-03-2004, 10:03am
Now after reading all the posts I forgot how I sucked in to this topic.

Tim

jaybee
Feb-03-2004, 10:47am
I've got a Roy Rogers lunch box...anyone remember? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Yoyo
Feb-03-2004, 11:49am
I am finding mandolin players to be alot like guitar players. You seem to associate a good instrument with a good player, making both of them conditions for the other to exist. I know it may sound obvious, but the mandolin means nothing without a player. However simplistic it seems, by many, it is ignored. Bragging and flaunting instruments is irrelevant, all that matters is how you play it. Most importantly though, be happy.

Keith Newell
Feb-03-2004, 12:08pm
I had a paper bag and really coveted a tin box. Maybe if I had to buy my tin box I would appreciate my paper bag?
Meaning many dont see the point of those with less means and to them a POS as some call them is the thing that keeps them going all day in a job or situation they dont like knowing that when they get home they can make some music. And thats the point right?? Making music, with a POS or a priceless aquisition. Its the reason we love this site and what it stands for, our love of the instrument.
Keith Newell

mad dawg
Feb-03-2004, 12:11pm
Whether you are playing a Pac Rim job or a custom axe, you're only in a box if you let others define who you are. Buy the mandolin that you think is right for you, and enjoy your music.

garyblanchard
Feb-03-2004, 1:08pm
I think that this is not just a "mandolin thing." We live in a brand-conscious society. Did you ever imagine you would pay top dollar to buy an item: shirt, pants, mandolin, banjo, guitar, or whatever, to advertise a product? When I was growing up they had to give away adertising items and hope people used them. With this attitude there are bound to be those who fall into a brand-conscious state and those who rebel against it. So who is right? There is no right or wrong. If you like "brand names" and can afford it, go for it and be happy. If you don't like brand names, buy a product that suits your tastes and needs and be happy. Either way, don't pass judgement on those who are different.

Willie Poole
Feb-03-2004, 5:54pm
Here is my opinion on this which is what you asked for...What you are playing doesn`t make any difference except that I have found that when an average player puts out thousands of bucks he gets more enthused and plays more and usually gets better, I had a friend that played a fair guitar, an import, and everyone said he needed a Martin so he bought one and he played a lot more and started playing a lot better...A person can learn just as much on an "el cheapo" but he might get tired of tuning all the time or he might not like the intonation of it and and get disgusted with it, also an expensive mandolin right from the get-go might one day become a collectors item so we take better care of it and talk to others that have the same kind of mando when we see them at jams or festivals...I`ve heard and played many mandolins that sold for less than a grand that were perfectly fine sounding axes....Willie

Crowder
Feb-03-2004, 7:12pm
Did you ever imagine you would pay top dollar to buy an item: shirt, pants, mandolin, banjo, guitar, or whatever, to advertise a product? When I was growing up they had to give away adertising items and hope people used them.
When I was a kid, I wondered why restaurants would make people pay for tee shirts. Seems like you're doing the work of walking around getting them exposure, right? But eventually I learned that a restaurant that gave away tee shirts would pretty soon be filled with people who were just there for the free shirt. Not necessarily prime customers! And everyone who saw the shirts everywhere would soon learn that the shirts were free, so they wouldn't have any perceived value as advertisements. Actually, most people would perceive the wearers as cheap people that they wouldn't want to be associated with.

Whether that kind of thinking makes me brand conscious, I don't know, I'm just a product of the old USA. But I recognize it to be true.

My attitude toward mandolins lead me to try lots of them in the price range that I thought was reasonable for the inherent value of the instruments themselves (no brand premium, age premium, etc.). To my mind this was the $2500-3500 range as of one year ago. I figured that amount was acceptable as a sunk cost for a fine quality musical instrument, but anything much higher was likely to represent some kind of premium based less on quality than on other factors. So I ended up with a "no-name" BRW that is maturing into a very fine F5. Everywhere I go, someone asks me about it and compliments the look or the sound of it (even had a blind guy at a jam ask me what brand it was, and maybe that's the best compliment you can ask for). I feel kind of silly explaining the name, but I'm getting used to it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I don't think I would have settled on the same instrument if I were brand conscious, but I know I made a good decision when I play other instruments from the same price range.

Scotti Adams
Feb-03-2004, 8:09pm
..yea..I find myself explaining what in the heck BRW stands for....wish I had a cool answer other than the obvious..

Mike Bullard
Feb-03-2004, 8:39pm
Ok, I'm in and here goes....Had a chance to buy one of Bill Monroes Gibson's from Bill himself but opted for a less expensive Flatiron F5 Artist. Saved a thousand bucks at the time and should have had my head examined but a thousand bucks is a thousand bucks. I was playing an Antoria (cheap) Mando at the time and anything was an improvement. Bill had played my Antoria on several occasions and even signed it for me. He also played my new 92 Flatiron and told me that it was a fine instrument and would only get better with age. He was the best IMHO. I still have both axes and still play both but my point is it makes no difference what you buy as long as it makes YOU happy. If I really wanted a Gilchrist or Gibson then I would do what all men do and beg my wife until I got it but as it is I am satisfied with what I have. I am not a professional musician by no means but a happy one just the same.

Like the tag line says........ http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

GaryM
Feb-03-2004, 10:14pm
I've got a Roy Rogers lunch box...anyone remember? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
hmmm..the horse was up on its hind legs and Roy was waving his hat??
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif wheres my old lunch kit?!
Good old show for sure...
Now I wonder If Roy played Mandolin???

jehannarc
Feb-04-2004, 11:19am
I had a He-Man lunchbox, and then later, Dungeons & Dragons (from the cartoon, not the game).

I was a nerd even as kid.

And it was "my little pony" not "my pretty pony".
Yeesh.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Bluegrasstjej
Feb-04-2004, 11:35am
#If you're a "good" player you're allowed to have an expensive mandolin. #If not, then not. #What happened to collectors and patrons of the arts? #Somebody please outline the rules so I can follow them. #Please! #
I think there may have been a discussion before this one, or so it seems, because I'm not really with you, but I just wanted to say something. (please refer me to the other discussion if there is one so I can follow what you apologize for)

That only "good" players would be allowed to have expensive instruments??!! Isn't anyone allowed to play what they want? I just bought a better mandolin (not very expensive though, but if I would have afforded Sture Svarén's used Kentucky or Gibson I would certainly have bought one of those instead, and then I don't think I play very well. I'm an advanced beginner or an intermediate. But I love playing and I'll continue with it. I like good sound, and good instruments. Some people think that if you're a beginner you shouldn't buy quality instruments. I say that if you're a beginner you should buy a good instrument that sounds decent, because then the playing will sound better and you will enjoy it more. My first mandolin was really cheap and it was ok, good for being a cheap Jap, but my new Washburn is better and I love playing on it.

BenE
Feb-04-2004, 11:39am
And it was "my little pony" not "my pretty pony".
Yeesh.

Obviously...I never sat at that table at lunch!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif


In regards to the BRW...that is sort of tiresome explaining the initials...I just tell them a small builder in Ohio....My first name being Ben and Ben's first name being Ben...Lordy...you can see where it would get confuzzing!

GeoMandoAlex
Feb-04-2004, 3:44pm
My Grandmother lived right across the street from my grade school (you could hit the school with a rock from my Grandmothers porch). I always ate lunch at her house with her and almost never ate at school. Boy, I really must have missed something.

BenE
Feb-04-2004, 3:46pm
(you could hit the school with a rock from my Grandmothers porch).
Hopefully you never tried it the other way around!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

GeoMandoAlex
Feb-04-2004, 3:55pm
No way, I would be too afraid she would stop cooking me lunch. I guess I was the ultimate lunch snob. LOL I'll have to change my board name.

BenE
Feb-04-2004, 4:00pm
My gandma was a pretty good cook but she didn't have a clue about breakfast cereal. #
My brother and I stayed a week one summer and she woke me up one morning and said "Honey, your cereal is all ready for you...I already poured the milk over it about ten minutes ago so that it's nice and soft for you." #

Nothing like a bowl of soggy corn flakes....sends a little shiver down my spine http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

GaryM
Feb-04-2004, 5:08pm
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

jehannarc
Feb-04-2004, 5:35pm
GeoMandoAlex,
Man I envy you. I would love to have eaten lunch with my grandma every day.

Way cooler than a He-Man lunch box.

f5joe
Feb-04-2004, 5:46pm
......... uh?

What's grandma's lunch got to do with reverse snobbery? Perhaps I'm missing something. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

mandopoet
Feb-04-2004, 5:52pm
Well, I only carried my lunch to school for a couple of years and when I did it was brown bagged. #Now after a few times of having my Fritos taste like the banana my mother had packed (fruit was a staple for her), I opt to start taking lunch money for that truly undesirable cafeteria food, which was half the motivation for my next decision. #I soon discovered if I made a sacrifice and not eat lunch, then I had a nice pocket of change by the end of the week for a few extra luxuries (things I normally could not get).

Well, I am currently trying to save my "lunch money" for a mandolin upgrade. #Hopefully by the time I collect enough to buy it, I will be a much improved player and not feel too guilty about owning a "better" one. #I can hardly wait to feed this hunger. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Jaded
Feb-05-2004, 2:21am
I bought a gibson F5 about six months into my mandolin playing career. #I couldn't afford it, but I had made my mind up that rather than go the traditional route of buying a slightly better mando and then another better one etc etc, I'd find the one that I thought I could be happy with for a very long time.

I was kinda shocked and disappointed at the reaction of a few people that I would have never thought of as being the jealous sort. #I was told that people are expected to wait at least five years to buy a Gibson, I hadn't paid my dues, that everyone who was a "good player" and couldn't afford a Gibson would want to kill me etc etc.

That kind of hurt my feelings at first and I considered selling it and buying a mandolin I actually could afford and pocketing the extra...but in the end I love the instrument I chose and the advice from the people I trusted the most was "don't worry so much about what other people think."

A year later, my playing is starting to get to the point where I can hear just how good my mandolin sounds. #Maybe in many eyes I'm still not good enough for my mando, but I wish everyone could have the chance to buy whatever instrument they really wanted at the beginning and kinda grow up together. #It's a nice experience.

I feel sorry for people who judge others by their possesions, whether it's looking down their nose at a good player with a cheap mandolin or at a less talented player with an expensive one.

OdnamNool
Feb-05-2004, 5:51am
"There comes a time when what you are is what you'll be"

f5joe
Feb-05-2004, 6:23am
Jaded, well said.

GeoMandoAlex
Feb-05-2004, 9:37am
Jaded, I'm not jealous of you, I'm extremely happy for you. I'm choosing the other route (upgrade after upgrade so I can save money as my career developes). Use the current mando I'd be playing as a trade-in for the upgrade. I only plan on buying possibly two mandos before I reach what I would consider "my mando". However, MAS may kick in and then.....who knows.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

f5joe, sorry, the topic went off-topic with an analogy about school lunch boxes. I never had a lunch box.

jehannarc
Feb-05-2004, 10:18am
Jaded, very well said. It's stinks that you had this great new mando and were met with such negative feedback from people. Shame on them.

After playing on Drew's fanfreakingtastic mando last week I can say: Am I a good enough player to do a mando like that justice? Heck No. Do I covet that mando and would I love to have one like it? Hell yeah.
Fortunately I'm very happy with my current mando, so I'm not completely green with envy, just a bit sallow.

Staramouche
Feb-05-2004, 5:31pm
Ferget the mando $$$, where can I buy talent?

My lunchbox was Hong Kong Fuey, #1 SuperGuy-dog

Drew L
Feb-05-2004, 6:44pm
awwww... Erica. #Very sweet of you to compliment my mando like that. #I couldn't be happier with it. #And you can swing by and play it any time.

The problem I have is that regardless of whether I can "justify" the purchase of a mando with my playing, I think they're about the greatest pieces of functional art in the world. #They make me happy to be around. #They're just beautiful, and to be able to make the sound they do on top of it?! #Amazing. #If I had the cash for that Nugget on the front page, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Regardless of whether or not I could make it sound like others could, I guarentee I'd enjoy it as much as they would.

Incidentally, I can't remember what was on my lunch box. #But I do know it had a matching thermos inside for my soup.

mandomiss
Feb-05-2004, 6:46pm
I was given a sweet little F4 on the second day of my mando-playing carreer. I got a lot of "That's an awful nice mandolin for a beginner," talk, but in the end I think that starting off on a nice insrument kept me playing. I was enchanted by the tone from the first strum. It really got me hooked!

doanepoole
Feb-05-2004, 7:18pm
A-Team, baby!

doanepoole
Feb-05-2004, 7:22pm
oh yeah...flashback, before the A-Team, it was Fat Albert!

J. Mark Lane
Feb-05-2004, 7:43pm
We couldn't afford a lunch box. I had to use paper bags saved from the stores from whenever my parents could afford to actually buy anything. "Save that bag, boy, or you might not have any lunch tomorrow!" Of course, there was never much in the bag, maybe a stale piece of bread with some lard on it. And sometimes the lard would turn sour during my three hour walk to school each morning, uphill, in the rain and snow. But the walk home (uphill) was a little easier when the bag was empty. Nowadays, of course, I'm determined to get back at The World for all that it has done to me. That's why I became a lawyer.

<sigh>

The Long-Suffering J. Mark Lane

bratsche
Feb-05-2004, 8:08pm
My father, widowed at a young age, met and married my stepmom when I was in high school. She worked as a flight attendant, and I got to carry my lunches to school in these nifty TWA barf bags. Musicians at my school were a weird lot to begin with, so it's in all sincerity that I say that that was considered far cooler than any lunch box!

bratsche

Jaded
Feb-06-2004, 5:56am
My mom bought my lunch box at a garage sale. It had some kinda cartoon characters from like the 70s on the front that I'm still not sure what they were <g> (was in school in the 80s)

I wish I still had it, it could be a collectors item for all I know.

GTison
Feb-17-2004, 10:56am
my lunch box is a gib. '02 fern. our website goes on and on about it. but I really didn't want that. It makes me look snobish. I'm not I let others play it. If you have a better instrument folks sometimes go on and on about the instrument and not the player. And that's just human nature. If it wasn't that "you weren't good enough to have a good mandolin" instead it would be 'he's a crappy mando player anyway!" Like my papa Rosanadanna always said "it's allways something"

LilCreekster
Feb-17-2004, 12:02pm
I was told that people are expected to wait at least five years to buy a Gibson, I hadn't paid my dues, that everyone who was a "good player" and couldn't afford a Gibson would want to kill me etc etc.

I had the same experience at first when I got my Yellowstone (after about 6 months of playing LOL) #I was really suprised at the whole "deserving it" thing. #Heck yeah I deserve it, it's my money, I worked hard for it... it's my only hobby and there is nothing wrong with me having a nice mandolin and not being a phenomenal player. #(ok so I wish I was... I'm workin on it haha) #

I wish that everyone who wanted one could buy one, perhaps especially if they are really good and stuck with a less than wonderful mandolin... but I can't buy everyone a mandolin. #I can buy myself one, and enjoy playing it! #And maybe someday I grow into "deserving" it talent wise. #But maybe not, it's my baby and I love it, and I don't "deserve" it any less than anyone else. #

The bright side is, since actually getting it, I've had a really good reaction from people. #Maybe it helps that I certainly do not operate under the assumption that a good mando makes me a good mando player haha. And I am also always willing to let other players try it if they'd like, (long as they don't scratch her all up since she's pickguard free LOL) #Mostly the people I actually care about are really happy for me, and those that are jealous & bitter... well, I don't really need to hang with them anyhow. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

jeffshuniak
Feb-17-2004, 12:29pm
I was told that people are expected to wait at least five years to buy a Gibson, I hadn't paid my dues, that everyone who was a "good player" and couldn't afford a Gibson would want to kill me etc etc.
well there used to be this school of thought, actually , I'm sure its still out there somewhere, that indeed students should begin with an inexpensive instrument.

I guess this is really a courtesy to partents not to spend too much money before knowing your child's aptitude and desire for music.

I guess we parent ourselves when we "test the water" - thats what I consider buying a cheap instrument. yes , I have played cheap mandolins, I have played on and off for ten years and only now own my first real nice custom job.

unfortunetly, buying an inexpensive mandolin is much trickier than buying a cheap guitar.
before buying a cheap mando, I would spend some time playing it, see how strong the fret wire is, I have seen some real cheap fretwire out there. once those go, man, you will have the hardest time intonating. I suppose most other things could be tweaked or changed. action can be lowered, tuners can be replaced. cheap fret wire that wears out in a year... ooh, thats bad.

Bluegrasstjej
Feb-17-2004, 1:41pm
What is all this talk about lunch boxes?

Anyway, I read Jaded's post about the f5 and it made me mighty upset!!! I guess I've stated my opinion that all pickers are entitled to play any mandolin, no matter how good they are. If the mandolin sounds good, then it's nicer to play it and you'll progress faster because you play more. It's as simple as that. If you know you want to play the mandolin, go ahead and buy a Gibson if that's what you want. If you don't know if you want to play the mandolin but want to try, buy an inexpensive one.
I know the issue about buying cheap mandolins (actually there was this discussion just recently on the fiddle forum I visit, there they suggest you buy a more expensive fiddle, or at least not the cheapest, to have less work with it later). I think I've just been lucky. I've owned three mandolins (and tried several). My first one was a Samick which was just fine to start with, it wasn't bad at all more than a bit too silent. This was my first buy of an instrument and I didn't know anything about mandolins. I just knew I wanted to learn to play one. Later I wanted more volume, and bought a Levin, which was just not the right type of mandolin for me. And now I've bought a Washburn which is a very good mandolin. I would have bought a Gibson if I'd had the opportunity, no matter how good or bad I play. That's it. It's not a matter of being "worthy of" or to "deserve" an instrument!

I understand that parents should be cautious about buying mandolins to children. But adults who know what they want can do whatever they want and noone have the right to come and say they "shouldn't have bought that". It's just too silly and childish and just sounds like pure jealousy.

Anyway Jaded, I'm glad your satisfied with your Gibson and I'm very glad for you that you had the opportunity to buy one!! The f5's are the best!

Michael H Geimer
Feb-17-2004, 2:04pm
I do believe that solid wood, craft built instruments are supieror to the factory produced laminate construction sort. I also think that the responsiveness of these higher-end instruments will benefit both the experienced player and the novice - to varying degrees, of course.

But, I do not think that any player's choice of instrument is a valid gauge of skill level, or musical status.

To repurpose a common saying ... Content is King. It's the notes you pick, and how you pick 'em, whom you pick with, and how wide you smile when you pick ... those sorts of things matter.

- Benignus ... who got a Superman lunchbox for his 33rd. B-day !?!

Tom C
Feb-17-2004, 2:05pm
If I were an amazing player of 20 years, playing a Johnson, (Not bashing, justing picking a non-expensive mando) and some beginner was playing a Gibson MM. I would never say they are not worthy of it. Maybe I'd say "damn, you must be rich". I think we all should be playing better mandos than we can afford. People who do not make alot of money will go out and buy an expensive mando. Usually they are the very good pickers -to be spending a large percent of their income on something that is not a neccesity. Others who have a lot of money, but do not play often, may also buy a very expensive mando. They may be a beginner or a lousy picker, but they may like nice things regardless of the price. Both parties feel that they "deserve" something nice.

neal
Feb-17-2004, 6:31pm
Y'know, if I liked a painting, and it was "expensive", but it spoke to me, I'd buy it. #Would I have to first take art lessons to appreciate it? #Would I have to start with a poster or something I found at TJMaxx first? #Nope. #I think that pretty much # all the members here are of the same mind. #If it's what you want, well, it's what you want. #I have a few "high end" guitars, do I deserve them? #Just like a few previous posters, YES. I work for my cash. #Can I play them like Leo Kottke? #NO.

I'm drawn to the quality. #But it did take a few years to recognize the quality in that particular genre. #And I've made many many monetary mistakes in my education. #That's what I love about this board, #people know things I don't.

I personally think that everyone should have a professional instrument to start on too, but, financially it's just not feasible for some. #So, we get what we can afford and begin our education at that point. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

I think that's what Tom C said, I should have read the previous post first, eh?

brianf
Feb-17-2004, 7:19pm
I do believe that solid wood, craft built instruments are supieror to the factory produced laminate construction sort. I also think that the responsiveness of these higher-end instruments will benefit both the experienced player and the novice - to varying degrees, of course.

But, I do not think that any player's choice of instrument is a valid gauge of skill level, or musical status.

To repurpose a common saying ... Content is King. It's the notes you pick, and how you pick 'em, #whom you pick with, and how wide you smile when you pick ... those sorts of things matter.

- Benignus ... who got a Superman lunchbox for his 33rd. B-day !?!
How about the third category; #solid wood factory built with some hand crafting? #And, aren't Gibsons mass produced until they reach the carving stage?

mandolaw
Feb-17-2004, 7:20pm
I started out with a cheapo mando to make sure I would like playing. But I moved up to a Weber Yellowstone in less than six months. I think everyone should buy the best instrument that they can afford, regardless of maker. Some might get lucky and find a Kentucky or MK that is really good. I personally have heard an old Alvarez that rocks as well as several Kentucky mandos that sound great. But for consistently good workmanship, sound, playability and durability the higher end mandolins are a better bet. Keep looking for that one you love and play as much as you can get away with. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

GaryM
Feb-17-2004, 7:25pm
What is all this talk about lunch boxes?
A early post on this thread related, how as kids we were rated by how cool our lunch boxes were. If you had a cool lunch kit you may have been singled out by someone as not being cool enough to posess it. I can see the distiction.

Michael H Geimer
Feb-17-2004, 7:50pm
" How about the third category; #solid wood factory built with some hand crafting? "
- brianf

That description is right on the money for the instruments I actually own. I apologize if I sounded like I was sitting on a '23 Fern, or a '37 D-28 or something ... though I sure wish I were. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

- Benig

LEUllman
Feb-17-2004, 8:51pm
Reverse snobbery is not unique to the mandolin world. In order to be taken seriously, bassoonists must play a Heckel (preferably pre-war); oboists are expected to play a Loree. Other makes might very well be superior, better suited to your needs, etc., but unless you show up at the gig with the anointed/traditional axe, stand mates, conductors, and -- worst of all -- contractors will look askance. After a while, you get tired of swimming upstream.

mando bandage
Feb-17-2004, 11:11pm
While I would never presume to determine what anyone else "deserves," I like to use that concept as incentive to keep practicing. You know, when my playing deserves better than my old Washburn, I'll get a ___. Keeps me going, and, I'm getting close!

R

Mastersound
Feb-18-2004, 7:48am
Interesting thread.

Willie, you said: "A person can learn just as much on an "el cheapo" but he might get tired of tuning all the time or he might not like the intonation of it and and get disgusted with it". So by definition if it's not a Martin it'll go out of tune? I'm sure that's not totally what you meant, but it does sum up a fairly common attitude.

I'm currently covetting an acoustic guitar branded Travis that's made in China. It's the closest sounding and playing thing to a Taylor or Takamine I've every played, and it retails for about AUD$600! The thing sustains like a temple bell and is so sweet to play! What does it say about me that the name on the headstock puts me off? If I'm honest it probably says I'm shallow as all hell! My only brand name instrument is my Maton Mastersound. It's a sweet guitar and not too expensive. My cheap Cimar by Ibanez manages to stay in tune despite not being a Martin, and the guitar I play most often? ... A really cheap and badly made SX acoustic that I love to death purely because it was bought for me by my daughter for my birthday, and it sits behind me within easy reach.

My advice to anyone starting off is to buy the best you can afford (without going overboard) from a shop that comes well recommended and does repairs and setups and start a relationship/friendship with the people there. With luck you'll still be going there for the rest of your life.

Jimmy Page said it doesn't matter what you play or how you play, what matters it THAT you play.

John Rosett
Feb-18-2004, 8:54am
when i was 15 years old in 1973, i bought a '60 telecaster for $50. i knew this guy who was a really good player and a couple of years older than me. i took my girlfriend over to his house, where there was a jam session going on, to show the tele to him. he played it for awhile, and then i asked him what he thought of it. in front of a whole roomful of people including my girlfriend (who i was desperate to impress) he said, "i think it's a damn shame that a hack like you can have such a nice guitar!"
i've always remembered that, and i've always loved fine instruments. i think an instrument that you love will inspire you to play more beautiful music. but, it's all in the eye (or ear) of the beholder. i know a guy that plays an old bowlback, and i don't think he would trade me for my weber or gibson if i asked him to. it inspires him.
if i could afford a $10-25,000 mando, i probably wouldn't buy one. if i wanted one bad enough, i'd figure out a way to get it.
so i say play it if ya love it- you can find the "stinky" note on just about any instrument if you play it with a little attitude.
john

Bluegrasstjej
Feb-18-2004, 10:41am
What is all this talk about lunch boxes?
A early post on this thread related, how as kids we were rated by how cool our lunch boxes were. If you had a cool lunch kit you may have been singled out by someone as not being cool enough to posess it. I can see the distiction.
That's an interesting parallell (do you say that in English?)! In Sweden we don't bring lunch boxes so that's never an issue here.

GTison
Feb-18-2004, 1:43pm
Hey I just found out that a Silver Sousaphone(tuba) cost about $5500 to 6000. without a case! I used to play one in school. NOW I DON'T FEEL SO BAD ABOUT SPENDING SO MUCH FOR A FINE MANDOLIN. Which would you rather hear me play?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

BigJoe
Feb-19-2004, 12:10am
Hey Brianf...No. Gibson mandolins are not mass produced at any point of production. There is not state to mass produce them. They are hand made in Nashville TN by some very great people. Many of those workers cannot afford the product they build, but they work as hard as they can to make the very best possible and they take their work with great pride. Just thought I should offer that word to clear up the mass production misconception.

GaryM
Feb-19-2004, 11:40am
What is all this talk about lunch boxes?
A early post on this thread related, how as kids we were rated by how cool our lunch boxes were. If you had a cool lunch kit you may have been singled out by someone as not being cool enough to posess it. I can see the distiction.
That's an interesting parallell (do you say that in English?)! In Sweden we don't bring lunch boxes so that's never an issue here.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif hm I don't usually go back and correct my grammer and spelling so will let me know the next time ..I will send you a apple.
I really worry its my playing that needs the work.
Is that a good distiction?

mandobsessed
Feb-19-2004, 6:27pm
I tried to carry my lunch to school in my mandolin but it was too hard to squeeze the sandwich into the f-hole. I'm not even going to describe the mess the bananna made.

Of course the colest lunchboxes of all were THe Bionic man and Star Wars!

selfish shellfish
Feb-19-2004, 7:03pm
The most extreme case of brand-related snobbery I've encountered was at an organized bluegrass jam in Vancouver, BC. I was playing a Takamine dreadnaught and a guy was craning his neck (I noticed right away) from the other side of the big circle, looking my way.
He slowly jockeyed for position and got to where he could read the old style Martinesque Tak logo on my headstock. He made a face like he had just smelled something awful, and fled.

I own a Grauer F-style (Japanese) mandolin. I have never met anyone who has heard of the name, and I'm very happy. The mando was a Chistmas present from my wife in 1985.

I recently spent $525 for new frets and getting my fretboard radiused. The work done by Charles Shifflett of High River, Alberta is absolutely outstanding, and only took a week.
The Grauer has NEVER sounded or felt so good, it barks like a Jack Russell terrier. The bridge angle has been changed and the difference in intonation and tone is unbeliveable!

Future upgrades will include and Allen-style tailpiece and possibly a Montelleone-style bridge.

Would I go for a Heiden or a Nugget if money were no object? Of course! Meanwhile... I'm playing the you-know-what out of my Grauer... and loving the exclusivity!!

selfish shellfish
Feb-19-2004, 7:31pm
The most extreme case of brand-related snobbery I've encountered was at an organized bluegrass jam in Vancouver, BC. I was playing a Takamine dreadnaught and a guy was craning his neck (I noticed right away) from the other side of the big circle, looking my way.
He slowly jockeyed for position and got to where he could read the old style Martinesque Tak logo on my headstock. He made a face like he had just smelled something awful, and fled.

I own a Grauer F-style (Japanese) mandolin. I have never met anyone who has heard of the name, and I'm very happy. The mando was a Chistmas present from my wife in 1985.

I recently spent $525 for new frets and getting my fretboard radiused. The work done by Charles Shifflett of High River, Alberta is absolutely outstanding, and only took a week.
The Grauer has NEVER sounded or felt so good, it barks like a Jack Russell terrier. The bridge angle has been changed and the difference in intonation and tone is unbeliveable!

Future upgrades will include an Allen-style tailpiece and possibly a Montelleone-style bridge.

Would I go for a Heiden or a Nugget if money were no object? Of course! Meanwhile... I'm playing the you-know-what out of my Grauer... and loving the exclusivity!!