Monte and a gil on ebay [Archive]

SternART

Aug-22-2007, 9:42pm

No.....Tom Ellis is in Austin......I've correspnded with the seller about a year ago
when I was selling instruments, but I'm not going to out him. He is a Cafe Member
and has advertised in the classifieds.

JHo

Aug-22-2007, 9:52pm

I've always wondered how any regular folks (not well known and/or well paid professionals) can afford something like a $25,000 or $35,000 instrument, let alone the Loars and all. Furthermore, it seems like most people who have an instrument on that level have numerous ones, not just one. Wow. Seriously.

mythicfish

Aug-22-2007, 10:10pm

"I've always wondered how any regular folks..."

I guess you havn't heard ... we're all out of "regular folks". Just "folks gettin' richer" and "folks gettin' poorer".
Me? I just sing and play a couple of instruments so I don't have to think about which group I belong to.

Curt

allenhopkins

Aug-22-2007, 11:46pm

"Regular folks" who are seriously into mandolins, may not hesitate to pay for an instrument what others will pay for a new car, a European vacation, a professionally landscaped yard, etc. My wife loves to watch the House & Garden channel on cable, and there you can consistently see people who redo their kitchens at a cost of $30-40K, or some such. Keep the old kitchen, buy a great mandolin -- your choice, your money. Don't need to be a multi-millionaire.

woodwizard

Aug-23-2007, 12:40am

You are absolutely right Allen. Now if you could just help me convince the wife........

pjlama

Aug-23-2007, 1:23am

The Grand Artist at Wexer's just about killed me. Too bad it's sold. Those two on Ebay have been up and down a few time for sure, I just can't wrap my head around 36k though.

Greg H.

Aug-23-2007, 11:55am

I agree Allen, and then there are the folks who live in a trailer but have a beautiful bass boat and an F250 to pull it (yes, they do exist. . .there's one a couple of miles from me).

JHo

Aug-23-2007, 12:05pm

Personally I'm an architectural designer in good standing in a major American city, my wife is an editor in possibly better standing, but even so we'd have an awful hard time coming up with $25-35,000 in liquid funds in short order. Point taken, but still it seems you'd have to have some money to lay out amounts like those. Just my two cents, don't mean to offend anyone. Believe me, I'd rather be in the shoes of someone who could afford to write a check for a Gil or a Monte, let alone numerous ones.

Celtic-Grass

Aug-23-2007, 1:09pm

and you know, it really goes beyond the actual value of a thing. Things like this have such a high price because someone is willing to pay it. I think, in all reality, (and I know I'll get an argument) but all things being equal, I think $5 grand should get you the best mandolin possible (sound and playability wise) . after that it's all for show. Sure Montys are desirable because they are original works of art and Gil's have that cache as do many builders' stuff. But yeah, collectors aren't buying them to play, they buy them to invest and then sell 'em to some other guy with too much money. there's price and there's value whether it's mandos or Beanie Babies.

And for that kind of money you think the guy could get better pics of the things! Jeez! pay the $50 for a professional photographer!

JHo

Aug-23-2007, 1:15pm

Good point, it's what the market will bear. For the record I don't doubt for a second that those in question are outrageously nice instruments. I suppose if I could afford to write a check for that Gil or that Monte, I might be more inclined to write that same check for 5-7 instruments in the $5,000 each range, or perhaps 4-5 instruments in the $7,000 each range, but that's just me. Then again I'm not a collector, nor do I have that kind of disposable income, so I won't worry any more about it.

bradeinhorn

Aug-23-2007, 1:19pm

"I think $5 grand should get you the best mandolin possible (sound and playability wise).....after that it's all for show"

what does this mean? how do you prove a statement like that and what's the point of making it, if not simply for the sake of argument?

and for the record, i know plenty of poeple with montes, gils, nugs, and dudes that play the heck out of them. a lot of poeple who own them are new owners and didn't pay close to these asking prices. i highly doubt the vast majority of these builders' mandolins are not in the hands of players.

mrmando

Aug-23-2007, 2:03pm

The Grand Artist at Wexer's just about killed me. Too bad it's sold. Those two on Ebay have been up and down a few time for sure, I just can't wrap my head around 36k though.
No, but if I had 36K I could wrap it around my head!

mythicfish

Aug-23-2007, 2:28pm

"what does this mean? how do you prove a statement like that and what's the point of making it, if not simply for the sake of argument?"

With statements like this ... I think we can guarantee one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Curt

Celtic-Grass

Aug-23-2007, 2:56pm

OY! that's what i like about this place. Always someone looking to pick a fight. well I'm not taking the bait. particularly when the one picking it just so happens to sell high priced mandolins.
I'll say this tho...
the one's that will insist loudest "$dollars$ equals sound" are probably the ones who spent a years pay on a wall hanger.
there are many excellent builders, Some members of this website, who can make you as good a mandolin as you could ever want for $5K. in labour, skill, materials... (whether they end up costing 4x as much is a totally different matter)
it's a wooden box with strings. If it's well made, it'll play. all the gold plating and all the inlay and all the exotic alloy tail pieces, and all the collectors' fuelling and artificially inflated market won't make them sound better.
and for gosh sakes, stop reading things so literally!
again, there is a difference between 'price' and 'value'

bradeinhorn

Aug-23-2007, 3:04pm

OY! #that's what i like about this place. #Always someone looking to pick a fight. #well I'm not taking the bait.........
you're not?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

in all seriousness, though, i don't see what the big deal is about market value of certain instruments. i mean - people should be able to buy whatever they want regardless of when they will use it, how skillful they'll be when they use it, or if they will use it at all. i was just commenting that those I know who have these upper echelon price mandos, including loars, do in fact play them regularly.

i think you explained yourself well, by the way in regards to the 5000 dollar thing. although, even that seems like too much for wood, plastic and metal to me, and I paid well over that for mine.

My big problem in mandolin pricing is the barrier to entry on decent quality inexpensive instruments (in comparison to say guitars for example), not the prohibitively expensive level.

mythicfish

Aug-23-2007, 3:51pm

"it's a wooden box with strings. If it's well made, it'll play. "

Amen.

Curt

sgarrity

Aug-23-2007, 3:56pm

[QUOTE]My big problem in mandolin pricing is the barrier to entry on decent quality inexpensive instruments (in comparison to say guitars for example), not the prohibitively expensive level.

Hhmmm......Im very inclined to agree with this statement for the most part. But then you have Collings and some of the small builders. About $2000 for a new MT. $3200 for the MT-2. $4300 or so for an MF. Not all that bad really. Have you priced a decent guitar lately? There ain't nuthin' cheap these here days!

bradeinhorn

Aug-23-2007, 4:08pm

actually my point shaun - is that you can get a reasonably good and loud sounding guitar that you can play out with in a jam,etc for well under 500 dollars, sometimes between 100-300. Forget about anywhere near that for a mandolin.

sgarrity

Aug-23-2007, 4:15pm

Now that I can agree with. #I guess it's all about what "inexpensive" means. #A friend of mine just bought a Parkwood guitar. #It's a sitka/mahogany dread. #He paid about $400-500 for it. #And it ain't bad at all. #Sounded as good as my Hummingbird does! #Of course Big Muddy (aka Mid-Mo) offers quality, solid wood mandos. #But Big Mon didn't play one so that must be why Eastman is doing so well! # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

OscarWantsAWeberMandolin

Aug-23-2007, 4:16pm

Well, from my point of view, there's only one way to find out if a Monte or Gil or other expensive box is actually better than a 5k instrument is to try one of the darn things. #Stop arguing and do it!
Personally, I think I can manage just fine with a $1000 mando, money you could buy several decent guitars for.

pjlama

Aug-23-2007, 4:20pm

My wife thinks I'm crazy to pay the money I have for "wood and metal" so the wooden box with string resonates pretty well here. It's intially a little shocking to see the prices coming from other instruments, it adds to the interest that the mandolin brings. Kinda like "hey, this is a wonderful instrument, I love playing it, there's a great community around it and you can pay $100 to 200k for one". It give us plenty to contenplate and discuss here.

Celtic-Grass

Aug-23-2007, 4:47pm

@bradeinhorn

I just can't resist that nice tasty worm, I guess!!!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I think we are on the same page here, actually...

"... by the way in regards to the 5000 dollar thing. although, even that seems like too much for wood, plastic and metal to me..."

Absolutely. the money for a nice instrument is in the skill of the maker and I'd be willing to pay a premium for that, but yeah, $5K aught to cover that!

if they go up in price because of the builder's reputation that grows as time goes on, so be it.
reminds me of a time when I was a lad playing bass and i got the chance to play with the late, great Canadian fiddler Graham Townsend at a gig he did at the music club I belonged to. He had a beautifully carved Flemish made fiddle from the 1670's that we all admired. I, being the smart ### I was said "Gee, with the kind of money you make, you think you could get a new one!"
didn't go over to well.
but it was a great experience, playing with a legend!

mythicfish

Aug-23-2007, 5:43pm

There are plenty of appropriatetly priced mandolins in the $500 range. While they may not be as good as a comparably priced guitar, it's not a question of buying wood by the pound. And there are other considerations:

Entry-level mandolins are usually in the hands of entry-level mandolin players who don't need a $2K instrument in order to learn how to play.
Entry level players learn best in small group situations - not in large jams. This way they learn how to play "with" other musicians - not "at" other musicans. They learn from their successes and failures in a setting where they can actually hear them. In such settings, they don't need a "cannon"
And speaking of "cannons" ... an entry level musician trying to exploit the volume of his/her instrument is like giving a gun to a child.
I learned on a $40 Strad-o-lin ... and I know of someone who plays one professionally with a well-known group who has been touring internationally for decades.

Curt

jasona

Aug-23-2007, 5:45pm

Personally I'm an architectural designer in good standing in a major American city, my wife is an editor in possibly better standing, but even so we'd have an awful hard time coming up with $25-35,000 in liquid funds in short order.
I bet you have that amount in credit however. ;) Most folks don't pay for cars with liquid cash, and I expect there have been a few loans taken out to get mandolins of this quality.

SternART

Aug-23-2007, 6:15pm

I didn't take out a loan.....but was used to making my monthly payment on my pickup,
so once it was paid off I kept putting the same amount away each month into the mandolin
fund.....bought my first Gilchrist that way.

allenhopkins

Aug-23-2007, 8:36pm

I know of someone who plays one professionally with a well-known group who has been touring internationally for decades.
Paul Prestopino, with Peter, Paul & Mary?

Yes, his is sweet. I never thought much of Strad-O-Lins until I jammed a bit with Paul at Pinewoods Camp. Then I snapped up the one I own ($25, with a huge crack in the top, from a little old lady who truly found it under her bed).

You can get a hell of a lot of fun and mileage out of a good, cheap mandolin. But still, I have admiration for people, not wealthy, who make the decision to forego other possible purchases and lay out significant bucks for a top-line mandolin. There is something special about playing a finely-crafted, well designed instrument.

mythicfish

Aug-23-2007, 9:04pm

"There is something special about playing a finely-crafted, well designed instrument. "

I agree. I was fortunate to find one at 1/10 of the price of ... well, you know.

Curt

Jonathan Peck

Aug-23-2007, 9:13pm

I just interupted my wife while she was on the phone and asked her if it was OK if I spent $225,000- on a mandolin. She laughed and said yeah sure go ahead. I said, no I'm serious, she said so am I. Gotsta go, I'm going to buy that Loar in the classifieds http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

bradeinhorn

Aug-23-2007, 9:52pm

wow-the mandolin that wrote rebecca, perhaps?

Big Joe

Aug-24-2007, 1:48pm

Herschel's loar is an incredible mandolin. It is as clean as you will find and the tone is....well...it's kept Herschel happy for many years. Believe me, that man can tell a good mandolin from the rest. If I only had the money..........

AlanN

Aug-24-2007, 1:57pm

Paul Prestopino, with Peter, Paul & Mary?
Well now, for a while, I was in the Roosevelt String Band with Paul. I can't really recall his mandolin but we did a couple of mandolin numbers, and it sounded, well, like a mandolin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

allenhopkins

Aug-24-2007, 11:58pm

In my experience with Paul, he not only plays a very nice higher-end Strad-O-Lin, but is an advocate of these mandolins. His has real binding (my cheaper Strad has "binding" painted on), and some nice figured wood for the rims and back. I saw him perform several years ago with PPM; he played Dobro, guitar, and mandolin, plus recorder on one song. A great musician and a great guy.