Why do players move when they play?

[mandopickin4Him]

I've been wondering why players move around so much when they pick, I mean Wayne Benson rocks back and forth when he playes, Thile looks like he has seicers, even I've started rocking back and forth and I don't even know why. I was wondering what you all thought.

-Josh

[Sergio Lara]

Keeping time.

Dancing?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[mandopickin4Him]

I don't know. To me it doesn't look like thile is keeping time. I know benson isn't keeping time.

[d'omando]

RMS. Restless Mandolin Syndrom. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

DW

[Bruce Evans]

Why not?

[Andrew Lewis]

Sounds cheesy, but I think it simply is just a case of the music moving you. I walked into a slow jam last week at Camp Bluegrass and I was in the back of the room with a lot of space, and since the music wasn't difficult and I didn't really have to concentrate, I just had the best time dancing around as I played...

[Tillmanator]

I"m not good enough yet on the mando to move around. My eyes are glued to what I'm doing. But when I play the flute, I have a tendency to move about quite a bit. And it isn't necessarily in time with the music. It's just how I feel at the time about the music... and perhaps a bit of nervous energy also. It happens more when I'm in front of an audience.

[Lou Scuderi]

It's just a thing musicians do, kind of a feeling thing. #I once had a guitar teacher who made the most ridiculous head motions every time he played a song--stretched his neck out over the instrument's neck and move it in all sorts of interesting patterns. #Cool guy, great guitarist, and really interesting to watch.

["left"out]

I haven't started moving to the mando...yet. When I play guitar at my local jam I have to stand and move around a little at least. (I do stand out a little, the only one standing out of ten or so guitarists) And when I play bass I definitely make the "bass player face"

[Sitka]

I've jammed with an amazing guitar player that, when it came time for a break, would pick one person and stare them in the eye. I was tempted to make a face at him when he did it to me, but politeness got the best of me.

Micah

[chinamando]

I have a couple of comments:
1.Physics, reaction vs. action
2.Expressing music; I've learned not to merely "express" it, because most times we work against our own bodies. A great piano teacher taught me to move WITH the music, find your balance. The center of gravity moves around as you move around.

It's like dancing, not that expressing music should be choreographed. Nevertheless there are certain ways to move with the music and ways not to move with it.

Check out approaches like Dalcroze and Taubmann. The Alexander Technique did not begin with music, but it is very relevant. Also check out the principles of Tai Chi, about balance and circular movements (I find that circular movements, however small, relaxes the muscles especially when engaging in fast, repeated movements.) All are very useful in fighting carpel tunnel syndrome, tendonitis and other related injuries.

[woodwizard]

It's feeling the music I'm sure. Everyone sort of does it their own way. I like the way Sam Bush moves. He's the energy bunnie.
Chris Thile is like a dreamer. Mike Compton is a leaner (has anyone else noticed that?) The Dawg just boogies. I've noticed that eveyone in my band dances and moves around a lot. To me it's getting into the music but could also be part of the show too. My 2 cents.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The next time that you have a chance to watch a solo classical musician ,a symphony orchestra or a string quartet play,watch the musicians,they do exactly the same thing -the ''music moves them'',literally !.
My worst trait when playing my Banjo used to be moving my mouth. I have a video tape of me playing a few instrumentals at a Bluegrass festival some years ago & i look like i'm chewing a bumble bee. Now,when i play Mandolin,i have a habit of twitching my eyes - no doubt in anticipation of a snapped "E" string !,
Saska

[Bing Cullen]

Very funny, cheered me up no end. I saw a young clasical guitarist on sunday. He was playing 200 year old Guarnini. His facial expressions while playing somehow fit the emotion he was trying to express on the guitar. Now he played an opera and told us the story, so he had no vocals to help. If I couldn't see him play half the performance and emotion would have been lost I'm sure...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Bing - I wondered why you were up so 'early' now i see that you're in Oz. It must be hard typing upside down mate,
Saska

[Soupy1957]

"Moving" as in rocking, or swaying or stepping up and back or side to side IS a reaction to the music. (subconcious mostly)

"Moving" as in the old style of shifting positions with the other members of the group, whilst playing, was a result of each one moving to the mic so the instrumental (break) for the various instruments, could be heard in a large stadium or arena setting. (Intentional)

"Moving" as in neurosis, is forgiveable (crazy)!

-Soupy1957

[david blair]

I like the quote from Sierra Hull about Sam Bush; "His head moves back and forth this way, and his hair moves the other way"

[PseudoCelt]

It's interesting to compare performances of Celtic trad musicians in the '70s and '80s with their modern counterparts. Many Celtic musicians in the in the '70s/'80s barely moved anything but their hands, and either stared into space or looked at their hands. Similarly, their audiences sat still and often looked like they would rather be somewhere else.

In contrast, a lot of modern Celtic players are jumping all over the place and headbanging while they play. Their audiences are also rather more animated.

This leads me to think that they do it partly because it has just become the thing to do. Less extreme movements like tapping your foot are just a sign that you're getting into the music. Some people do it, some don't.

Patrick

[MandoPirate]

Reminds me of the ... " why are those kids dancin" arguement I hear at bluegrass shows with conservative crowds .. only I know your not argueing ;) ...

I think its the music moving them .. they aint just moving .. their translating


MP

Interesting question. I always wondered why Roy Orbison just stood there and didn't move.

[MikeEdgerton]

If it feels right you move. I have friends that never move when they are playing and others that almost dance. Honestly, the ones that move are a little more entertaining on stage. Have you noticed that some people can't talk without moving their hands? It's the same thing, it's a form of expression.

[John Flynn]

I jam occasionally with a clawhammer banjo player, who is truly a great guy. He is a very calm fellow who even genuinely likes banjo jokes. But when he gets in the groove playing, he uncontrollably gets this horrible grimace on his face, with his teeth bared, and he starts moving his mouth like he is chewing the air. The first time you see it, you almost think he is going to bite someone, or have some sort of a seizure. It's just normal for him, though. Go figure.

[mandopete]

Sorta like a Joe Cocker thing eh?

[mythicfish]

I can't tell you why I do it, but it's the reason that I had to buy a clip-on microphone.

Curt

[allenhopkins]

I remember watching a young Marty Stuart playing mandolin with Lester Flatt's band, and wondering why he looked like he was mouthing the notes as he picked. I think when one seriously concentrates on playing, e.g. taking a break, one lets the rest of the body's muscles just go on "autopilot" and they do what they do without conscious control.

I grit my teeth when I play, and I've been trying to consciously relax the tension in my jaw, in the hope that the relaxation will increase general fluidity and responsiveness, and I'll be able to play better. We'll see...

[mandomurph]

For me it's a way to keep loose and relax while I'm playing. Helps me play much better when I'm relaxed. Never could understand how Tony Rice can play guitar so well without moving anything but his hands and fingers.

[JeffD]

Glenn Gould, the amazing pianist, famous for his Bach, had the habit of singing along with his own playing. You can hear it on his CDs and recordings. I would have preferred strange facial expressions an body gestures, even some Jerry Lee Lewis moves, but singing along? I don't mean lyrics, I mean dumdeedumm dumm dumm!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB76jxBq_gQ

[Willie Poole]

I agree with the first Mike on here..."It`s part of the show"...Watch the Grand Ole Opry and you will see the newer performers moving around when they sing, it turns me off personally but the younger crowds love it...Myself I play with me eyes closed so I don`t get distracted....good opinions on this subject, good reading....Willie

[JeffD]

It's interesting to compare performances of Celtic trad musicians in the '70s and '80s with their modern counterparts. Many Celtic musicians in the in the '70s/'80s barely moved anything but their hands, and either stared into space or looked at their hands.
I wonder if that is because one of how important sessions are to preserving the tradition. Even now, I don't see much movement in any of the jams I attend, celtic, old-timey, or bluegrass.

We all look like this:

[250sc]

To keep from being hit by thrown objects!

[Alex Orr]

# My worst trait when playing my Banjo used to be moving my mouth. I have a video tape of me playing a few instrumentals at a Bluegrass festival some years ago & i look like i'm chewing a bumble bee. Now,when i play Mandolin,i have a habit of twitching my eyes - no doubt in anticipation of a snapped "E" string !,
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #Saska
Trey Anastasio (formerly of Phish) does this almost constantly when he's in the heat of a good jam. It's almost like he's calling out the notes as he's playing them.

[JGWoods]

When I play the banjo I move so the drool doesn't hit my feet...
On the fiddle I move - mighty hard to be still and get the bow going.
Not so much on the mando, just enough to keep from knocking into my neighbor.

[Bing Cullen]

Hi Bing - I wondered why you were up so 'early' now i see that you're in Oz. It must be hard typing upside down mate,
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Saska
No the keyboard is upside down too. here's me practicing

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

Missy Raines, the bass player, is great to watch.....she is all over the place.

[Jim MacDaniel]

ADHD?

[Timbofood]

If I have my mouth too far open I start to get B---O player syndrome, The drool just flows!

[Chippster]

I found years ago out that if i didn't bop around while i played that i looked really goofy (or goofier) ... and i had more fun ... and people had more fun watching me play. "Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?" - Arthur

Check out this local singer/writer/bandleader from Nashville, Pat McLaughlin http://www.patmclaughlin.com/
He plays from his toenails to his earlobes.

[hattio]

"left out,"
What is the bass player face? I play bass too, and move quite a bit. But, I think in general bass players have to be the least animated of musicians as a class. Your take is obviously different, but what do you see?

[mandoplyr70]

Did some TV shows last year and first thing I noticed was I was standing like a statue, not smiling etc. So now I try to move with the music and smile if possible, try to make the crowd know I,m having fun http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[mrmando]

Martin Hayes actually has a liner note on one of his recordings explaining that he can't help tapping his feet when he plays. Some jazz musicians scat along with their solos, which may or may not be voluntary ... you can hear lots of grunting on some live jazz recordings. Diz Disley, who played some geetar with Grappelli circa 1980, is one example. John Pizzarelli is really good at this, but he appears to do it on purpose.

I know I get an involuntary twitch going whenever I stand too close to a banjo...

[Bing Cullen]

Involuntary noises do come out sometime.Bit like tennis players when they put all their effort into a stroke...Maria Sharapova does it. But its annoying to the audience...I think

[mandocrucian]

Ever had some harpy or nag (of either sex) screeching at you? Did you ever use a mental mantra ("Shut up, shut up, shut up", "Drink brakefluid and die, Drink brakefluid and die", Gooble gobble you're a pin head, Gooble gobble go away", etc) or a song to block out their voice? Now if you actually did this vocally instead of just mentally, the results would be even greater because now it is in the physical realm as well and even more mental circuits are involved in the distractive blocking.

The vocal is the amplifier to the mental ear. When things get louder or busier all around, vocalizing what you are playing allows you to hang onto to your ideas much more effectively. Most players that do this are NOT "singers" in the sense that George Benson is, which is why, if you do hear their vocalizings, they may sound pretty raw. (The pitch range of the instrument is going to usually go far beyond the vocal range.) Also, "singing" with the instrument reorders the mental priorities of your playing experience....now you start to "sing on an instrument" rather than just playing with your hands.

(I don't have any idea what going on in Andy Statman's brain as he groans along with his solos.) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Moving around is a lot easier and more natural when you are playing electric. 1) You aren't constrained by having to keep a certain distance to a mic. 2) With the amplification, it's easier to submerge into the wall of sound. When you can physically feel the sound waves of the power chord you just played, things are now headed toward more of a mind/body experience. You can be a mini-Zeus (of Wagnerian Elmer Fudd) throwing sonic lighting bolts.

But let's differentiate this between show schitck - Chuck Berry's duckwalk, Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) on one leg jumping around, Angus Young, Pete Townsend's windmills, etc. #Often, some of these bits have originated as unconcious spontaneity, but when the music press or manager comments on it, or gets an audience reaction, one gets the message...."that bit works, keep doing it."

But watch Angus when he walks around. Watch his feet. He's got a few consistant time-keeping step patterns and they are right in synch with the groove. He's internalized the pulse into the physical realm, and is surfing on the rhythm. Everyone else could stop playing, but he's locked onto that rhythm and can keep right on going.

There's some players I don't particularly like to watch when they play. Ric Sanders (Fairport Convention) relentlessly paces the stage. And Sam Bush's rocking/shacking....it's too Gilbert Grape for me. (Have you ever watched those with Downs syndrome, that back and forth rocking is too typical.) And of course Joe Cocker, but he's not nearly as extreme now as he was back in the 70s. But, they sound great.

(Sam can't help himself -it's genuine (I'm assuming). But, I can't stand seeing players imitating that stuff because they think it is "kewl". That's about as lounge lizard hip as Bill Murray lounge singer, without being funny.)

If the player is a real control freak, they are better off, imo, just keeping to the I'm slick, I'm totally in control stage personna. It just looks phoney if they try doing that other stuff....because it is phoney. (Brian Ferry isn't Santana)

Niles H

[mrmando]

(I don't have any idea what going on in Andy Statman's brain as he groans along with his solos.) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Totally! You can hear it on the live tracks on East Flatbush Blues!

I have asthma and tend to breathe really heavy when I'm soloing. Not too noticeable on stage, but when I made a solo CD I actually recorded parts of it wearing a painter's mask! I did a mandocello track without the mask and used to be bothered to death by the breathing ... until I started noticing it on other people's recordings. It was there all along, of course, I just hadn't been listening for it.

Which means that people won't necessarily be listening for the breathing on my stuff, so I should probably quit worrying about it.

I do know that I have all my creative channels unblocked when I start drooling on my instrument. Seriously. It happens when I'm at my most relaxed and focused. One nice thing about it is that the drummer needn't feel that he's the only one...

[mandroid]

Topic has me visualizing John Hartford on stage, singing, dancing and fiddling
at the same time.. he is missed.

[woodwizard]

Yes ... you are absolutely right. John Hartford was our dancin' singin' fiddler and is dearly missed. I still have a wonderful picture I use as a screen saver every once in awhile that really shows him getting into his dancin fiddlin' thing. He's gone but then again he's still with us forever.

[Avi Ziv]

Many people move rhythmically during prayer. Jews have a strong tradition in this area. It puts them in a certain "spiritual zone" that's helpful for what they need to do. I think for many musicians it's the same thing

Avi

[MandoSquirrel]

When i sang in a church choir a few years back, one of the "bugaboos" the directors had to face was getting people NOT to Sway, for many of us it's Unnatural Not to move when the music's Happnin' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Bob A]

The late (and much missed) Roy Buchanan was not particularly wiggly on stage. When asked about his lack of demonstrativeness, he said "I'm screaming on the inside".

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hey come on Bing ! - You're not really upside down , are you ??!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Jim Rowland]

Ever notice that Butch just stands and plays? I've often wondered if that is part of his discipline. I wish I could do it. I'm a grimacer,like," oooh ____"and "why am I here?".
Jim

[tiltman]

"Mike Compton is a leaner (has anyone else noticed that?) "

Mike Compton is absolutely one of my favorite players. The first time we saw him play live was on the "Down from the Mountain" tour several years ago. My wife nicknamed him "lurch" because he was always in the background lurching around.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
...but what an amazing player.

Some of the pickers around here that I jam with move their mouths a lot when they are picking - like they're chewing gum or having a seizure.
Kirk

[SternART]

I always thought that Grisman & Rice in the ol' DGQ days, were textbook illustrations of both sides of this topic.

[Bertram Henze]

Plain crosswiring, I think. Several movements are coupled in our brains, because they belong together as a side effect of optimization; therefore, people cannot do the one without the other. Joe Cocker is a good example. Also the opposite is possible: things you cannot do while playing, although they do not really interfere; I cannot speak while playing (forcing me to negotiate a tune sequence before starting a set in sessions, because I cannot say the next tune's name underway).

Bertram