Lourds!

[Tebbie bear]

Hey guys you may have seen the band LOURDS, they are a rock band that has a mandolin and violin playing front woman. They rock! Anywho they are in a competition to Play at Lollapalooza and they need your votes. Please go to this site and listen to them if you like what you hear then please vote.

I have no affiliation with the band i just want to be able to see then live.

http://lollapalooza.mp3.com/feature/2007lollapalooza/?band=lourdsny

[jim_n_virginia]

Hey guys you may have seen the band LOURDS, they are a rock band that has a mandolin and violin playing front woman. They rock! Anywho they are in a competition to Play at Lollapalooza and they need your votes. Please go to this site and listen to them if you like what you hear then please vote.

I have no affiliation with the band i just want to be able to see then live.

http://lollapalooza.mp3.com/feature/2007lollapalooza/?band=lourdsny

Sorry I am a Bluegrasser and a strict traditionalist... IF I were the King of the USA all rock bands would be outlawed and all drums would be confiscated and destroyed!

#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #

[LKN2MYIS]

Funny.

If I were the king of the USA, bluegrass would be outlawed, heavy metal would be melted down for building materials, old time and jazz mandolin music would be the norm, and banjo players would pay twice the tax of anyone else.

But, then again, I'm a a liberal http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tebbie bear]

If you are a strict traditionalist can you tell me how your bluegrass sounds on a bowlback??? Or do your "traditions" start and end with bill monroe?

[Brady Smith]

[URL=http://lollapalooza.mp3.com/feature/2007lollapalooza/?band=lourdsny]

Sorry I am a Bluegrasser and a strict traditionalist... IF I were the King of the USA all rock bands would be outlawed and all drums would be confiscated and destroyed!

#http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #
Ahhh...love it...I vote jim for King.

[John Flynn]

If I were the king of the USA, bluegrass would be outlawed, heavy metal would be melted down for building materials, old time and jazz mandolin music would be the norm, and banjo players would pay twice the tax of anyone else. But, then again, I'm a a liberal
LKN2MYIS: I'm a conservative, but I agree with you. Maybe we've found the theme that can bring both sides together!

[Domhnall]

Hey, come now, there are some lovely percussion instruments. Bodhrans, Djembes, Washboards, ect.

Washboard is what a real drummer plays.

[mandocrucian]

Sorry I am a Bluegrasser and a strict traditionalist... IF I were the King of the USA all rock bands would be outlawed and all drums would be confiscated and destroyed!

Isn't the second sentence redundant of your first identity statement/oath?

Um-huh ....How to win "converts" to the cult. But really, how is it working out?
I guess that's why "'grass" is <span style='color:red'>the most popular and lucrative genre</span> in the music buisness.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I just don't understand... so people, help me out. What is with this seeming need of this contingent to continually throw stones at everything else? #Maybe they are trying to earn a speicial subcategory of Jeff Foxworthy "tributes"? (That's a knee-slapper, by cracky!)

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

http://www.gosimpsons.com/ProdImages/krustysealkeychain.jpg

[LKN2MYIS]

There isn't a need. Discussions like this on any topic are basically just silliness.

I don't care if you're (mando, wine, house, boat, wife, whatever) can 'beat up' mine in your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, I've no problem with it.

The problem arises when people believe that only their opinions are valid and that other's opinions do not count.

This particular thread I'm viewing as good natured kidding around, as I think that's the way it was meant.

I mean, after all, I think we can ALL agree that my dogs are better than yours . . . . . .


All in fun -
lkn2myis http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[allenhopkins]

If I were king of the USA mandolin would be named the country's official instrument. Babies would be issued mandolins at birth, parades would feature massed mandolins performing patriotic tunes, and there'd be a special "Mandolin Channel" on TV with concerts, workshops, building and repair instruction, and visits to special collectors and players.

Note that this is the same approach most aspirants to high office take with any special interest group, from farmers to immigrants to, yes, mandolin players. Just don't compare my similar postings on the ukulele bulletin board...

[John Flynn]

Allen:

Your enthusiasm for our little instrument is to be commended, but I have a counterpoint. I think there is a "point of popularity" that if the mandolin went past that point, it would not be a good thing. If we look at the guitar world, we can see what could happen. There are a lot good guitarists out there, but they are overshadowed by mediocre guitarists everywhere you turn. The LOURDS group that started this thread is an example of where it could go with the mandolin. Some people have opined that the McCartney "Dance Tonight" tune is another example, although I happen to be OK with that one.

Right now, I like that while it is rare to see a mandolin in the popular media, when I do it is typically well played and it adds a lot to whatever music it is associated with. I also like that when I show up at a jam, there typically aren't that many other mando players and I can easily create my own musical space in the music. I would like to see the mando get a little more popular, but nothing like guitars or drum kits.

[LKN2MYIS]

Mando Johnny -

Thanks for the wonderful voice of reason! I agree totally.

I'd like to think that we 'crawl to the beat of a different drummer'.

[Tebbie bear]

so you are saying that lourds Lane is "mediocre" as a musician? Playing violin from the age of 3, Lourds was considered a prodigy, classically trained by her strict Russian teachers and expected to follow in the footsteps of the greats like Isaac Stern and Itzhak Perlman. By age 7 she was playing Carnegie Hall. Then she rebelled, and it's been a pattern ever since.
Lourds, the lead singer-songwriter says, "I remember it was Pablo Sarasate's, "Malaguena" and the piece had a lot of zing and personality in it and instinctively I wanted to not just to play the song, I also wanted to PERFORM the song. When my solo was introduced and I stepped onto the stage, people naturally cheered loudly because I was a teeny spunky-looking pigtailed girl. I saw the audience smiling at me and instead of standing with my back straight, one foot in front of the other, with my violin held high in perfect posture, I was bopping, swaying and smiling. During the climax of the song, I broke that elusive "fifth wall" and jumped off the stage, which was only a step off the ground. The crowd stood up and clapped loudly as I walked and played my violin up and down the aisles.
I had been playing violin for 4 years and never FELT as connected to the music as I did when I connected with the few hundred people who were listening to me that day. I finally GOT IT. I finally felt immense happiness playing violin.
The unfortunate thing is that my conductor at the time did not approve what I did at all. He told me I was making a "mockery of classical music." I remember this vividly because at the time I had no idea what the word "mockery" meant so I had to ask my mom, who shook her head in disapproval. I remember feeling so sad. I didn't understand why there had to be so many rules.
From then on, I instinctively rebelled against classical music. I didn't play concertos as they should be played. I would play the first half as is and then write my own endings. I remember pressing down harder with my bow to simulate a more guttoral and distorted sound on my acoustic violin. My teachers were getting frustrated. I started slinking in my chair in the back of the orchestra and falling asleep during practice. Eventually, I quit the orchestra altogether and joined the school band playing the French horn, just because the band needed a French horn player. I never picked up the violin again until I discovered the fancy electric violin model that could DISTORT in my early teens.
Music became my life again when I created my OWN RULES... when I was doing the songs I wrote, the way I wanted to perform them, when I could embrace a crowd and be embraced by a crowd, and not be scolded..."

[olgraypat]

Well, hooray for Lourds ! I've not been a fan, but I am now...drums or no drums, bluegrass or no...there is a real artist in my opinion....which, as this thread shows ain't worth much.

[allenhopkins]

Allen:

Your enthusiasm for our little instrument is to be commended, but I have a counterpoint. I think there is a "point of popularity" that if the mandolin went past that point, it would not be a good thing. If we look at the guitar world, we can see what could happen. There are a lot good guitarists out there, but they are overshadowed by mediocre guitarists everywhere you turn. The LOURDS group that started this thread is an example of where it could go with the mandolin.
M/Johnny, you are correct, sir, but my posting was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. I was overdosed on the "promise them anything" syndrome that crops up during political campaigns.

If my grasp of history is correct, there was a period (late 19th century) when the mandolin was one of the most popular instruments in America. Not to the hyperbolic level I projected in my earlier posting, but there were mandolin orchestras in many cities, mandolin clubs in many colleges, and music stores and catalogs offered a wide selection. Both my paternal grandfather and my maternal grandmother played the mandolin, back around 1900. I have my grandfather's mandolin books, and a picture of grandmother Emma holding her bowl-back.

Out of this popularity came the advances in mandolin development that we are still enjoying today: the carved-top, long-scale, f-hole mandolin that is the backbone of the modern mandolin family. Had not some of the "best minds" (Lloyd Loar, e.g.) in instrument construction devoted themselves, and led major commercial manufacturers, to mandolin development, we'd all be playing bowl-backs today. ("Not that there's anything wrong with that" -- J. Seinfeld.)

So while I was never seriously advocating that the mandolin eclipse all other instruments, I find its recent modest surge in popularity encouraging. Despite all the drawbacks, the "over"-popularity of the guitar has resulted in some of the best acoustic and electric guitars ever constructed, revolutionary developments in technique, and widespread availability of instruments at all levels. Not necessarily bad things, eh?

[mrmando]

so you are saying that lourds Lane is "mediocre" as a musician?
Yup. Sounds like someone who had a lot of potential but not enough discipline.

I've checked out some of their clips ... her violin playing is nothing special and her mandolin playing is worse.

That being said, I'm on her side about the need for classical musicians to find more ways to engage the audience. I'm sorry her conductor didn't approve of her showmanship.

Furthermore, I will be perfectly happy to vote for Lourds to play Lollapalooza. Even a badly played mandolin is better than no mandolin at all.

[JeffD]

I think there is a "point of popularity" that if the mandolin went past that point, it would not be a good thing. If we look at the guitar world, we can see what could happen.
I wonder about this.

On the one hand I think it would be great to have the mandolin become as ubiquitous as the guitar is in our musical landscape.

I am no elitist - I enjoy playing the mandolin whether I am the only one or not - perhaps I was drawn to it as a kid because it was different, but soon enough the real joys of the instrument overtook the "rebel without a clue" aspect.

I am not sure how it would hurt the music I love - electric guitar hasn't hurt classical guitar, blugrass guitar, old timey guitar, rock and roll hasn't destroyed blues or jazz.

If there is a genre of music at risk of extinction, how much can we blame the ascendence of the guitar, as opposed to other larger changes in our culture, or something intrinsic to the at risk music itself.

On the other hand the thought of Prince playing a pink mandolin does kind of bother me.

[John Flynn]

Jeff:

Picture this: A new chain of stores called "Mandolin Center." All the instruments are hopelessly out of tune, every member of the staff is a dropout from McDonald's University and every minute of every day they are open, there is some kid whippin' the snot out of an expensive mando doing a horrible rendition of "Rawhide." I think you get the picture.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mrmando]

And everyone who wants to play something different will have to take up the chonguri.

[Bluegrass Boy]

Sheesh,some people just have no sense of humor. And back to teddie bears question about bluegrass on a bowlback; yes, tradition starts and ends with Bill Monroe and anyone trying to play bluegrass on a bowlback will have their fingers glued together with crazy glue. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

[Bernie Daniel]

jflynnstl: Picture this: A new chain of stores called "Mandolin Center." All the instruments are hopelessly out of tune, every member of the staff is a dropout from McDonald's University and every minute of every day they are open, there is some kid whippin' the snot out of an expensive mando doing a horrible rendition of "Rawhide." I think you get the picture.


I know you were making a joke -- but that sounds pretty elitist to me.

I think its a pretty unfair cut on the Guitar Centers Inc.. The ones I have been in are OK. #The staff is indeed young but that is not a crime and they are mostly enthusiastic -- they try to know about vintage instrurments (guitars at least) - mostly they are just nice young men (a few women) who like music -- mostly rock -- and that's OK by me. They certainly are NOT losers.

The Guitar Centers in Cincinnati and Columbus Ohio always have a few older mandolins on hand and I like drop in and play them.

Be nice if they carried a few mandolin accessories -- like STRINGS! -- but then I can get those from Boyd, Stewmac, Mandolin Central etc. so I'm set.

I like the Guitar Centers.

[JeffD]

Whether you like Guitar Center or not, its existance doesn't take away from any of the fine accoustic music stores out there where you can purchase fine accoustic guitars under the guidence of knowledgeable people.

But I understand what you are saying. Its like how far country music has strayed from its roots so as to be unrecognizable. Something has been lost from the culture.

[Tebbie bear]

Sheesh,some people just have no sense of humor. And back to teddie bears question about bluegrass on a bowlback; yes, tradition starts and ends with Bill Monroe and anyone trying to play bluegrass on a bowlback will have their fingers glued together with crazy glue. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
you missed my point. He claims to be a traditionalist however mando has been around for hundreds of years but he only acknowledges a form of music that is very young in the scheme of music... really not much older than rock and roll. if he were a real traditionalist he would be ranting about vivaldi not monroe. you and he sound exactly like classical music elitists, no room for something new, innovation is bad and change is always incorrect. If you were a few generations older you would be bitchin about that darned bill monroe and how he is killin music.

[Tebbie bear]

so you are saying that lourds Lane is "mediocre" as a musician?
Yup. Sounds like someone who had a lot of potential but not enough discipline.

I've checked out some of their clips ... her violin playing is nothing special and her mandolin playing is worse.

That being said, I'm on her side about the need for classical musicians to find more ways to engage the audience. I'm sorry her conductor didn't approve of her showmanship.

Furthermore, I will be perfectly happy to vote for Lourds to play Lollapalooza. Even a badly played mandolin is better than no mandolin at all.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/emando/icon_vconfused.gif she played a solo at carnige hall when she was 7! she has been playing since she was 3. She was stifled and rebelled and chose to move into a different genere. she is infusing her classical training into punk rock dispite being initially berated by classical, bluegrass and punk crowds. Do to grassroots marketing LOURDS sold well over 30,000 copies of its debut selfreleased CD. She and the band parlayed this into TV appearances and reviews in major publications. In what world does this girl lack talent or discipline???

[mrmando]

In what world does this girl lack talent or discipline???
That she lacks discipline can be inferred from her own description of her musical background. I never said she lacked talent; what I said was that her playing is nothing special. I followed the link you posted; I listened to the track. On the 10 seconds of actual fiddle playing on that track, her timing is off and her ornamentation is sloppy.

[Tebbie bear]

so if you change musical genere's when you are in jr high you lack discipline?

[John Flynn]

so if you change musical genere's when you are in jr high you lack discipline?
No. If you are in junior high, period, you lack discipline! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[mrmando]

so if you change musical genere's when you are in jr high you lack discipline?
No, if you're 7 and you think you know more about how to behave during your recital than your teacher and parent do, you lack discipline. If you slump in the back of the section and fall asleep during rehearsal, and then quit playing your instrument because you can't handle disapproval, you lack discipline.

There is no right way or wrong way to play the violin, but there are right ways and wrong ways to play in an orchestra. If she's a free spirit, doesn't wanna conform, wants to do her own thing, that's fine with me. But anybody who claims to be a "prodigy" and compares her little childhood self to Perlman and Stern better have the chops to back it up.

Speaking of which, Tebbie, maybe you can help me out. Are there any clips on her site where she takes a lead break on that exquisite stock Fender FM-52E mando instead of just twiddling on a two-chord rhythmic figure?

[Tebbie bear]

she plays the fender, an epi mandobird and a I've see pics of her playing some gibby's... but no doubt you were ragging on her for not having the coin to spend on a gilchrist, or montleone, etc.

also she doesn't claim to be a prodigy her peers at the time did, also i believe you misread the article her parents supported her, they were disappointed in the conductor. I could argue with you some more but you have made your mind up, she doesn't play an instrument you approve of in a musical genre you approve of so she is ####... its sad how elitist such as your self seem to crave approval for your own close mindedness...

[mrmando]

she plays the fender, an epi mandobird and a I've see pics of her playing some gibby's...
She has a Gibby F9 with a Fishman. Glad to hear she has a Mandobird.

but no doubt you were ragging on her for not having the coin to spend on a gilchrist, or montleone, etc.
Wrong. But feel free to misinterpret my intentions all you want.

Let's take inventory: Custom Gibson Les Paul. Ovation acoustic. Two different Zeta 5-string electric fiddles. The Fender, the F9, and according to you, the MandoBird. I don't think lack of coin for instruments is really a problem here. Maybe she should look for a St. George e-mando to match her Zeta Jazz model fiddle...

It's true that I don't care for the tone of the FM-52E on the whole, but it and the MandoBird should work just fine for what she's doing.

also she doesn't claim to be a prodigy her peers at the time did,
Yeah, well, she doesn't have a problem with including the term in her promo material, does she?

also i believe you misread the article her parents supported her, they were disappointed in the conductor.
Hm. Well, all she says is 'I remember this vividly because at the time I had no idea what the word "mockery" meant so I had to ask my mom, who shook her head in disapproval.' Could be read either as disapproval of the conductor or disapproval of the daughter, I suppose. But no, I didn't MISread this, because it's so ambiguous that it could support either reading.


I could argue with you some more
This isn't an argument. It's just contradiction. You just contradicted me. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.


but you have made your mind up, she doesn't play an instrument you approve of in a musical genre you approve of so she is ####...
Let's see, I play both the electric mandolin and the electric violin, so it's hard to see how I wouldn't approve of them; I am the keeper of the largest collection of information on electric mandolin players on the Net, which includes Lourds; I am in support of mandos and fiddles being used in all styles of music, even the ones I don't usually listen to; and I never called anyone ####.

I just don't think she's that great of a player, judging from videos and clips on her site. She's a heck of a performer, for sure, with an interesting voice. The band has a real catchy sound and lots of energy, good stage presence, yadda yadda. She just doesn't appear to be doing all that much with her instruments most of the time ... she'll play a couple of short hooks on the fiddle and use it more or less as a prop for the rest of the song, or use the Fender to put a little Peter Buck jangle into the mix. Did find one video clip with an extended fiddle solo; unfortunately the guitar's soloing at the same time, and the mix is so bad it's hard to tell who's doing what.

Again, if you know of a clip that is a good example of her playing ability, feel free to share it with the rest of us.


its sad how elitist such as your self seem to crave approval for your own close mindedness...
Thanks, Dr. Freud. Same time next week, then?

[Mark Walker]

AngryYoungMando - Excellent rebuttal. #I've read every post in this thread, and never got out of synch with what was serious or tongue-in-cheek, and never get too wound up about other's posts. #(Not that you were either - my reading and comments are just a direct result of my low-key [and likely ignorant!] disposition.)

Not a slam at Tebbie at all either; just enjoying the 'verbal sparring' and opinion sharing!

To each his (or her) own! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mrmando]

Let's consider the recital scenario she describes a little more closely.

She's playing the Sarasate "Malaguena." (Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXjjLzcTs0I) is a YouTube clip of a 13-year-old playing it, for a little context). It starts out slow but gets exciting toward the end, and has this cool show-off combination of left-hand pizzicato and saltarello bowing in the middle. It is scored for violin and piano.

She says the stage is only a foot higher than the audience, but there are a few hundred people there, so we are probably in a good-sized recital hall, like the one in the YouTube video. So in the middle of the piece she gets so excited she jumps off the stage and starts strolling through the audience.

We know that sound travels at 1,100 feet per second, and in a hall big enough to hold a few hundred people, she can probably pretty readily put 100-150 feet of distance between her and her accompanist. Maybe even more. And she hasn't practiced this strolling thing at all; it's completely spontaneous. This is an acoustic performance; she and her accompanist are not relying on stage monitors in order to play together. All of a sudden she is forcing her poor accompanist to play about a tenth of a second ahead of what he's hearing in order to keep up with her. Ever tried to do that? He can't get his usual visual cues from her because he doesn't know where she is -- she's out strolling up and down the aisles! He has to constantly adjust his timing depending on how near or far away she might be. Furthermore, she's encouraging people to clap along, which makes things even tougher on the accompanist. But what does she care? She's enjoying the music with her whole body, in a way she's never experienced before! It's all about her, anyway! Who cares about the stupid piano player?

I have learned from bitter, bitter experience that no matter what kind of music you are playing, it is never a good idea to show disrespect to your fellow musicians during the performance. If my bluegrass band was playing an unamplified gig and I suddenly decided to leap down and run to the back of the hall with my fiddle, my bandmates would be ticked off and rightly so. Nobody likes to be second banana to a gloryhound.

Now, I don't agree with her conductor (don't know why you need a conductor to play the Malaguena) that she made a mockery of classical music. (After all, at certain points in some of his works Mahler specified that the horns play offstage. And it's hard to argue with this (http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/fv.htm??g=f0d03e6e-d368-4876-91c6-1aba3d8095c0&f=06/64&fg=copy) use of classical music to engage the audience, in a less formal setting.) But she was being terribly unfair to, and inconsiderate of, the unfortunate individual assigned to play the piano with her. And if her mama didn't disapprove of that, she should've.

[allenhopkins]

I could argue with you some more
This isn't an argument. It's just contradiction. You just contradicted me. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
No, it's not.
--- John Cleese, Monty Python's Flying Circus