Mix a5 review

[John Flynn]

I played a Mix A5 today. I got to A/B it with my Rigel A+, both acoustically and through a Schetler "David" Acoustic amp. Assuming that a person can still give an honest critque about new mandolins here (There seem to be some who find anything but glowing praise to be "bashing!") I wish I could give a better report. I have to say that I liked the Rigels, obviously, I think Peter Mix is a very cool guy and a great mando player (I wish he wouold put or a CD!) and I like the idea of carbon fiber instruments for lots of reasons. I really, really wanted to like this instrument.

Pros: It is very cool looking, IMHO. The fit and finish are great. It is very light weight. Playability was acceptatble. I like thick necks, but this one was even a bit thick for me. Cons: The tone was thin, jangly and tinny, with no redeeming qualities. If it had been a wooden mandolin, I would have put it down after the first strum. The Dyn-M and the David amp reproduced the tone perfectly, which unfortunately was not a good thing for this instrument. The chop was nearly non-existent. Just to make sure it was not just me, another mando player I know has played it and had similar comments. Also, I don't think anyone can get away with saying, "Wait until it opens up."

I am not uncritical of my Rigel A+. It has its faults in the tone department, but I still like it well enough and it works for what I use it for. But I have to say that if market value were not an object and I was offered an even swap for Mix, I would hang on to the A+.

BTW, that David amp is "da bomb," though. I am saving up for one of those!

[Ted Eschliman]

I don't think it's fair to assess any instrument out of playing context. When I had the opportunity to review a New-MAD, it wasn't until I actually had it playing with a band that I fully experienced it's full capabilities. It sounded and played well in my studio, but where it really stood the test was cranked up (plugged in) up against other loud instruments, and that's a characteristic important to me personally.

That said, "jangly" is hardly the adjective I'd use. I thought it was very smooth and complex, and ran quite competitively in comparison with others in its price range.

Is it the ultimate lap instrument? In my opinion, no, but I've got other instruments for the front porch. I don't want to say your opinion is wrong, but then I had a full week and numerous acoustic environments to arrive at an entirely different conclusion.

I will also add this, money talks. I liked it well enough to order my own from Peter yesterday. I can't wait to get it!

[danb]

What's your normal daily driver Johnny? I'm interested to compare to see how my responses match up to it too, hopefully I'll bump into one of them some day. My roommate in London has a CF cello, and it's a pretty impressive machine.

Kind of related to the topic, I thought the Rigels had pretty darn good tone, but I never really cared for the look.

I've also gone through quite a few mandolins in my time, starting with a bowlback, then a Kay with F-holes, then on to better oval-holed Gibsons, a couple snakeheads, various resonator mandolins and other stunt piece like that. I had my world turned upside-down 3 or 4 times in the last few years. I started with a Lebeda F5 that knocked my socks off and was pretty much the loudest one I have ever had. I had a shot on the Schultz Loar for 4 months that reset all my thoughts on what made a mandolin great. Then a good snakehead, then I had my socks atomized by a Wiens F5.

These days the Wiens gets 99% of the playing time, followed by the 3-point F4. The 3-pointer edges out the wiens on old-timey and some Irish stuff, though the Wiens f5 has all the depth and clarity to play *any* kind of music, and sounds much better overall. The 3-pointer has a particular honk to it that sounds really cool and anachronistic on cool and anachronistic styles http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I had a truss rod F2 that was my favorite for old-timey stuff. That's headed out the door now, but sure was greatly suited to that style

I suppose what I'm getting at here is that there are always contexts that make one mandolin sound great, and types of music they seem really suitible for. That's where I started out here wondering what your daily driver is these days and what kind of stuff you play on it to put your review in context a bit!

[MikeEdgerton]

Assuming that a person can still give an honest critque about new mandolins here

I certainly appreciate honest appraisals by anyone. It isn't always popular to go against the grain but I am of the opinion that not every single mandolin made by any manufacturer is great.

[Perry]

I like my MixA5. I own two nice wooden mandolins. A couple of my own random thought FWIW:

New strings on the MIX do result in an emphasis of the treble maybe more so then on a wooden mandolin. They settle in nicely though and a pair of EXP's seem to last forever. I've been meaning to experiment with some Flattops or Monels but I've not been disatisfied enough with the tone to actually try anything diffent then my standard set of EXP74's.

The MIX works well with a dark thick pick; I'm using it with a Dawg or Tortis and like the result.

I've grown to like the thicker neck. It' is much more comfortable then a thin one once you get used to it and I think eliminates some of those typical pressure points that sometimes build up when playing a thin V shaped neck.

Mine has plenty of chop. Louder then the other wooden mandos I've owned: Collings MT-2, Flatiron A5.

It does not "compress" at all when you lay into it which I find to be a good trait.

The tuning stability is incredible. The tone does not vary form day to day like a wooden mandolin. Thus it may lack some "soul" in this regard. But I have other fickle mandolins that suit my need for that. The Mix is a great mando for the gigging musician.

Though I've not played another Mix I would have to believe that they don't vary tonally from one to another. This is an asset I feel (if you like the tone that is) in that you don't have to worry about whether you "got a good one"

The Mix with the internal pick-up is the best plug-in sound that I've gotten. Something about the CF material and Schertler work well together. Better then an external Schertler on a wood mando.

Is it a desert island mandolin? Maybe if you were in fact on a desert island! Rather it could be the perfect "only" mandolin for the gigging guitar player that doubles on mando and always plugs-in. Or someone who play mando with a drummer.

For me it is a perfect compliment to my mando family. I've got a nice F hole for bluegrass banjo battle, I've got a nice oval hole for that sound and I got my Mix for my all the moments when I don't want to worry about tunability, a fragile varnish finish or might have to plug in.

A biking analogy: think of it like this is you are a biker: you got a road bike, a mountain bike, a cruiser for casual. Well the Mix would be your hy-brid.

It's not a replacement for your wooden instrument but a nice
axe to add to the arsenal.

[John Flynn]

Given the better reviews posted here, I have to believe there is something seriously defective with the instrument I played. It was not even in the same ballpark as what was described here.

Ted, I agree that it is better doing a review if you can spend a week with an instrument and play out with it. But you should appreciate that the vast majority of us who are not dealers don't have that luxury. We always have to make our buying decisions "out of context." Also, I assure you, the individual instrument I played would not have gotten any better "in context," played out or after two weeks. It really sounded bad and I have a very competent second opinion to back me up on that. I also think most experienced players can tell a lot in just a few minutes, even if it is not a thorough review. If you don't believe me, I can tell you where you can buy a Mix A5 right away and not have to wait!

I also think that even if most Mix A5's are great and I am not doubting any of the people who say they are, I think it is still a serious problem when a process that is make-to-order can build and deliver even one $3500 mandolin that is as far off the mark as the one I played. Maybe it was damaged in shipping, but it didn't appear to have any dings on it or anything loose it, etc.

I dunno. I just got a chance to play a mandolin there has been a lot of buzz about, I was surprised by what I found and I thought the community might be interested. I am completely confident in my assessment of that individual instrument on the day I played it.

[thistle3585]

I played one and got to listen to several other high caliber players play it, and review it, at a recent festival. Most agreed with John's assessment, as do I. I was really put off by the thick neck, and could see where a lot of people who like a small, narrow neck would find it uncomfortable. There were several reviews posted in the Midwest Mandolin Festival thread.

I do agree with Perry that its a nice instrument to add to a collection but I wouldn't want one as a primary instrument.

[danb]

Johnny, it might not be anything to do with the build quality. What do you normally play? Curious because I find that some folks go after one kind of tone, some another. It's taken me a long time to get into F5 sound etc

[Ted Eschliman]

Ted, I agree that it is better doing a review if you can spend a week with an instrument and play out with it. But you should appreciate that the vast majority of us who are not dealers don't have that luxury. We always have to make our buying decisions "out of context."
John, first of all, I'm not a dealer of these. My point was not that one should make a buying decision after a week, rather suggesting the futulity of a truly defintive conclusion after only a couple hours of exposure, in a limited environment. I'm also not suggesting waiting for the the Mix to "open-up;" CF simply doesn't. For me, it was the player that opened-up. My fingers got use to a slightly foreign (to me) feel, the lack of pickguard, physical (weight) balance, a new set of my familiar and favorite strings, all ingredients that deny the average player the opportunity to really get to know if an instrument is truly right for them. This took me days, not hours.

Buyers don't get instruments on an approval policy, we get them on a "disapproval" policy from reputable dealers. The assumption is when someone is far enough in the buying process, because of the advanced personal homework and research, there's a better than likely chance the instrument won't be returned, but the "disapproval" option will allow a return if it fails to meet expectations over the allowed period.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying my own opinion evolved because I had the privilege of an entire week. Though yours may not have changed in this case given longer time, let me politely suggest that an opinion can take three forms: 1. informed, 2. uninformed, and 3. unformed. Time makes the first option more credible but many of us forget the third option and feel compelled to be overtly definitive.

[trevor]

Having played a lot of mandolins and served a lot of customers over the last few years I have to add my usual thoughts... (BTW I haven't played a Mix yet). Not only do different folk desire and admire different sounds, different folks may hear the same sounds differently.
It is fairly common that I disagree with John as to which has the stronger bass of two instruments.. either we hear it differently or are listening for different qualities.. or.. or.. to use a couple of my many clichés.. its horses for courses.. whatever lights you fire.. and the other factors mentioned by other contributors...

[danb]

this is turning into a popcorn thread suddenly http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[John Flynn]

I normally switch of between my Rigel A+, my Old Wave oval and my Parsons flat top. I also play a lot of other mandolins at stores and jams, as most of us do. Just for refrence about preferences, I have played a lot of Collings mandolins and liked every one immediately. A couple of them have just knocked me off my feet.

I hear what you are saying, Dan, and I agree with you in principle. But in this particular case, I really don't think it was a matter of tonal preference. I think I can judge the difference between an instrument that is just not to my taste and there being something wrong with it. In this case, I am convinced by these other reviews that there was a some defect in that particular instrument.

[danb]

ok, that dials me in. I think the Rigels have pretty darn good F-hole tone, and Bussman makes a great "Snakehead-sounding" oval.

[John Flynn]

Well Ted, again I agree in principle, but for whatever reason, dealer or not, you get the luxury of taking a week to make a decision on an instrument and the rest of us do not. We are lucky if we get a three-day approval period. In my case, I travel on business nearly every week. I have to make buying decisions AND cram the rest of my personal life into a weekend, at best.

Also, my personal preference is that while an instrument may need to develop AND/OR I may need to learn, over a period of time, how to get the right tone out of it, it should still sound pretty darn good on first play if I am paying $3500 for it. I will take wild guess and say that the vast majority of other mando buyers would feel the same way.

[Will Kimble]

Sounds like the action may have been too low on the instrument being discussed. #I have noticed a lot of string noise when the action is too low, it has been more noticeable to me than on comparable wooden instruments. #I say this because the Mix A5s I have played have all had a great chop and have been louder than the wooden mandolins that I build. #Tone is a matter of personal taste, some will like the sound of the carbon fiber more than others.

Also, the pickup is very sensitive and will transmit whatever you give it. #If the action is too low and the instrument sounds rattly, that is what you will get out of the pickup. #My experience has been that the pickup works fantastic, and that these are the best sounding and least finicky acoustic/electric mandolins I have ever tried.

There is plenty of room for differing opinions, and I don't expect that everybody will love the carbon fiber mandolins. #But there are some comments here that are different than what I have experienced with these mandolins and I thought it might be helpful to share my thoughts.

Best regards,
Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[John Flynn]

Will, I think you may be right. The action was low. There was no buzzing, so so I didn't think that was the issue at the time, but it would be interesting to play it with a higher action.

[John Flynn]

BTW, I think it would be great if other players in the St. Louis area could play this instrument and chime in. PM for the location, if you haven't already guessed it.

[Will Kimble]

I would be glad to go over the setup myself and make sure everything is in order. #Please have the owner contact me and we will figure out how to make it happen. #Or refer them to Peter Mix, I'm sure he would agree by the comments that something isn't right and would like a chance to take a look. #

Thanks,
Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[PhilGE]

I got to briefly mess around on some Gilchrists a few years ago. I didn't like their tone at all. I'm sure they are excellent instruments, just not for me. My current instruments all have very different tonal qualities. They are an Old Wave Oval-hole A, a Jack Spira Mandola, and a Thomas Buchannan Octave Mandola (Octave mandolin). I'm glad there is such a broad range of instruments available on the market these days. While I have MAS, my main axe will likely always be the Old Wave. It's just me and my sound. (http://homepage.mac.com/philg2/.Music/muddycreek.mp3)

[John Flynn]

Please have the owner contact me
It is in a store and I don't have that close of a relationship with the store owner, even though he seems like a good guy. But I am sure Peter knows what dealer in St. Louis has one of his mandos.

[John Flynn]

Phil:

I had the same experience with a Gil once. But I have come to appreciate that the way to listen to a Gil is with someone else playing it and me 10 feet out in front of it. That's where they really shine. I have heard the same said about some Loars. But I still thought the Gil sounded at least OK when I played it, but just like you say, not to my taste.

[B. T. Walker]

I received my Mix A4 last week, and when I began to play it, it had a serious buzz. Following Peter's advice, I raised the action, and voila, no buzz. As to tone, it is my first oval hole, and the difference between it and my f-holes is standard -- more bass and sustain with the oval hole. I let a more accomplished musician friend play it a while, and he likes it better than any of my other mandos.

I has taken me a few days of playing to get used to differences, as with any of my mandos, but I have become accustomed to its unique thises and thatses. Plugged in it sounds fantastic. Even with the action higher, it is quite easy to play. It is an addition to my stable with which I am very pleased.

Best of all, my lucky number is 38, and when I looked at the serial number I was very excited to note that it is #038! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Though it's comparing apples to oranges, my Ludewig Emory Lester is still my fave.

Brian

[Lee]

Quick, will someone please get MandoJohnny another one to try.

[PhilGE]

I had the same experience with a Gil once. But I have come to appreciate that the way to listen to a Gil is with someone else playing it and me 10 feet out in front of it. That's where they really shine.
Most of the time, my audience is my own ears or the ears of my family in the same room - often as I'm putting the kids down to sleep. The Gils wouldn't fit the bill (nor my bills). I'm happy to have a loud-enough instrument with a tone that's pleasing to my ears and the ears of others... and I'm glad to hear you know what you like. As for me, I'll reserve judgement on the Mix instruments until I get my hands on some.

[Peter Mix]

Apologies in advance for the length of this note.

# Reading John's comments does make me wince a bit, sort of like reading criticism of one's children, but I'd rather hear honest criticism and deal with it than pretend that nothing ever goes wrong. As you might imagine, the process of designing and building these carbon fiber mandolins has been a daunting challenge in every respect. No one's ever done it before and there is no road map.
# #The necks, for instance, are a wee bit larger than Will designed them to be. We learned that every dimension of the finished instrument grows microscopically in the molding process which is not a problem in most areas, but an increase of a few thousandths of an inch in a neck profile is noticeable. For most players, this isn't an issue and of our customers are very happy with their Mix A4's and A5's and really like the neck profile. We've even shaved a few down though we would really prefer not to be doing so. Carbon fiber consumes tools the way I consume espresso and chocolate and you don't want to breathe the dust if you value your health. Not every player is going to like our necks and some potential customers want us to provide larger necks. You just never know.
# #In terms of the voices we are producing, I firmly believe we have achieved something significant. I believed from the start that these would be very fine instruments and I think we have exceeded our own expectations significantly (and we have VERY high standards). I play #001 every day and find it to be a very exciting and inspiring instrument. For what it's worth, I do feel that it is developing as time goes along. It sounded great the day I first strung it up and it sounds more complex now.
# #I can't say with certainty what is causing the A5 that John played to be so lacklustre, but Will's suggestion that the action may be too low could be the problem. It's also possible that the bridge is the culprit. If it wasn't perfectly fit, the instrument could sound terrible as a result.
# # However, I believe the most likely source is the Schertler's internal cable and the mounting hardware. If the cable is touching the instrument's top or back, it can generate a truly irritating voice. I double-check the installation of those pickups now that I know they can be problematic, but it's certainly possible I missed this one. Also, if the internal bolt is even the tiniest bit loose, it can generate unwanted vocal charateristics. #
# # The proper response to this problem is to have the dealer return the instrument to us or to Will to find the source of the problem. I don't want an instrument that reflects badly on us to be in public at all. I know it can be made right and we'll do just that.
# # I'll also send one to you, John, for a tryout in the comfort of your home for a week if you're willing to give it a go and report your findings good or bad. These are very fine instruments in every respect, independent of the materials from which they are constructed. We have experienced minor problems, but find them to be attributable to human error as opposed to technological limitation. I'm more than willing to correct our errors and can only hope that players are willing to give us a second look if we somehow managed to discourage them initially.
# # # # # # # # #cheers, Peter Mix

[mythicfish]

"I let a more accomplished musician friend play it a while, and he likes it better than any of my other mandos."

Better than the Ludewig? Your friend must have a "tin ear". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Curt

[pickinNgrinnin]

[QUOTE] I'll also send one to you, John, for a tryout in the comfort of your home for a week if you're willing to give it a go and report your findings good or bad.

How cool is that?

[John Flynn]

I'll also send one to you, John, for a tryout in the comfort of your home for a week if you're willing to give it a go and report your findings good or bad.

Well, I certainly wasn't expecting anything like that, but I also can't turn an offer like that down. I will PM my address to Peter.

[pickinNgrinnin]

Hey MJ-

Maybe Bruce Weber needs to make you an offer like that http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[mandosage]

As usual Peter is first class. I would take him up on thhis, Johnny.

[John Flynn]

Maybe Bruce Weber needs to make you an offer like that

LOL! Maybe he will! I have to say, I would tell him what I told Peter. I would be happy to oblige, I would take good care of the instrument and return it promptly. I would give it a thorough trial, including playing it out multiple times and getting some of my local mando-buds to play it. Then I would write a review here that was as objective as I could make it. But in the end, I would "Call 'em like I see em', as I always do.

The truth is that I have nothing against Weber and I'd love to see them succeed. Like Rigel and Mix, I find thier stuff very innovative and visually appealing. I doubt anything I have ever said will kill them and as they saying goes, "That which does not kill them makes them stronger." BTW, I have played one recently that I like. A buddy just got a cedar-topped Bighorn with an MOP nut that is very nice. I will be looking for good things from them in the future.

I like it when average, amateur players like myself give objective reviews of instruments on this site. While experts' opinions are valuable, they all have a different view. It's like reading passenger car reviews done by NASCAR drivers. They see things through a whole different lens and they also have a "position in the business" to maintain. That doesn't mean they aren't trying to be honest and objective, it's just different.

And it that never bothers me when people disagree. What does bother me is when anyone suggests that I shouldn't express an opinion at all because it disagrees with thiers, or that I am "bashing" just because they don't like critical opinions at all, or somehow I am less qualified than they are to have an opinion, because of whatever they have I don't. Hey, I may not be a great player, but I am as qualified as anyone to have an opinion! People can always choose to just ignore it if they don't like it.

BTW, Peter said he will ship me a stock A5 that he will show at Summer NAMM. I will get it in a couple of weeks and then send it on to Austin for the show. He also said the F5 model will debut at NAMM. I can't wait to see pix. #I will post my A5 review #2 here on the Cafe', so stay tuned.

[thistle3585]

One thing that wasn't mentioned was the style. Did you play the F hole or oval hole style? I could see where the F hole would have a "thinner" tone then the oval? Maybe Peter should send you one of each. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Steve L]

There seems to be a cultural shift these days that's most evident on "talent" based "reality" tv shows. If someone turns in a performance and one of the judges offers anything in the way of criticism (even pretty constructive advice) the audience starts booing.

I think it's really useful when someone like Johnny gives a thoughtful report of his experience with an instrument. I would want to play some of these things myself before I would even dream of offering an opinion on them, but it's good to have the full range of peoples experiences to draw on.

There was a period where The Music Emporium here in Mass. was sending back most of the Eastman mandolins they got in as unacceptable. I'd say Eastman was paying attention as they are certainly succeeding in the marketplace now. That kind of feedback, while not pleasant, is valuable.

[Jim Broyles]

A5= F holes. The oval hole version would be called A4.

[Jerry Byers]

I love the title of this thread - every time I scroll past it, my brain thinks "mixed A5 review."

I need more coffee. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[billhay4]

One cannot ask for a more honest reply or gracious offer than that one.
Bill

[mboucher]

I concur. The offer shows outstanding graciousness.

Peter do plan on making a 2 point? Something priced between an 'A' or a 'F' styles.

Mark

[John Flynn]

Steve L:

Very good points. I will add the thought that with online shopping, more and more instruments are being sold unseen and unplayed. I would not be surprised if it is the majority of instruments now, or soon will be. Usually, there is an approval period, but that to me is a last resort. Most people don't have the time and patience and would not want to spend the money on postage and insurance to try every mando they might be interested in through the mail. Honest reviews on this site can really help the average buyer narrow down what they might go out of thier way to try. But if every review is a whitewash and negative reviews get discouraged, that value goes away.

Sellers seem very happy to use the internet to promote thier goods, but they also have to accept that the same medium gives incredible power to the consumers in terms of sharing information. Is that information always 100% valid, accurate and fair? No, it isn't, for lots of reasons. Recent buyers of a brand will defend it, trying to deal with congnitive dissonance. Former dissatisfied buyers of a brand will try to trash it for the same reason. Other people have all kinds of motivations. But the old bricks and mortar system wasn't 100% fair either, especially to the consumer. I think the consumers now have the upper hand if they choose to take it, which is a good thing.

[Peter Mix]

Mark, I would love to develop a two-point mandolin! The cost of development for any single design is extremely high, so we have to proceed slowly, but we plan to develop the entire mandolin-family as time goes along. The carbon fiber F5 is our current focus and it should be ready in time for summer NAMM.
In this regard, we have a few partnerships available still and would welcome the participation of any our friends here. All capital raised will go into the development of these amazing instruments. Please contact me directly at 802-644-5607 or info@new-mad.com if you're interested in learning more.
regards, Peter Mix

[Perry]

I'm no acoustic expert or hot shot player but I will say I've had mine for a few months and have played it under the following scenarios multiple times:

Unplugged in a noisy coffee house on a one mic set-up
Unplugged on a large stage with dedicated mic
Plugged in with a drummer in bar
Plugged in without a drummer in bar

It passes the test on all occasions. It's not the sweetest toned mandolin I ever heard (wood is wood) but I think it's the most versatile.

So I think it's important to listen to all opinions (even first opinions).

I'd love to see some more reviews posted here. Seems like there should be about 38 of these floating around out there. Where is everybody http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Just my .02 (again)

[MikeEdgerton]

Just for the record, Perry is a hot shot player.

I expect to see that mandolin at Albert hall next time you're down.

[ashemando]

Well I am certainly not an accomplished ( nor professional) mandolin player, but I've got Collings MF-5 # 12 which is the best sounding mando I have ever played or heard, anywhere. I think even Will Kimble might agree with that statement(maybe). He has heard it, and played it. In looking for a second line festival mando,and after several mail-order tries, I located online a new Kentucky KM-1000-yep that of rave reviews here. Imagine my disappointment last week when I found it to be thin, dull and very ordinary. And bridge height was not the answer. Too bad I missed the one outstanding MK at Merlefest-it sounded great.

The point? Resist all ye who tread here the temptation to buy sight unseen(and unheard).

[steve V. johnson]

Johnny, thanks for the review, for the thread and the honest explorations. Most interesting.

Peter, thanks for... well, all you do and have done. I'm still enjoying your last-generation work, a Rigel A+D.
I hope your collaboration with Johnny and the St. Louis crowd is productive.

Re: Carbon fiber necks
Is the neck laid up at the same time as the body, all in one piece? If not, if it's done separately, it seems that you might be able to use different molds to offer differently-shaped neck profile options. ... In the future. Just a thought.

I wish you enough success to make a two-point octave mandolin. Maybe I can take it with me to Mars!
I'd like that!!!!

Great thread, thanks to all.

stv

[Will Kimble]

Just to clarify - John has a very nice Collings MF5, but I don't recall saying it is "the best sounding mando I have ever played or heard, anywhere." #

Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[ashemando]

Well now Will I just couldn't resist the comment.
I will amend the statement-it's one of the best mandos I have ever heard live, including some high dollar units.
But it's all a matter of opinion isn't it?

[Chris Biorkman]

I think you two are misunderstanding each other. John was saying that his Collings was the best he himself had ever heard, and that Will might agree with that statement. He wasn't saying that Will said it was the best mando he had ever heard.

[Rick Cadger]

I think you two are misunderstanding each other. John was saying that his Collings was the best he himself had ever heard, and that Will might agree with that statement. He wasn't saying that Will said it was the best mando he had ever heard.
yep. that's how i read it too.

[Links]

Me three, but I think Will is also saying that he might not agree with that statement (or he may fully agree that John thinks it is the best mandolin he ever heard, but not the best he (Will) has ever heard. Oh well, never mind --------------

[Will Kimble]

I am saying that I don't appreciate my name being used to validate John's statement that his mandolin is "the best sounding mando I have ever played or heard, anywhere." #You guys can debate all you want about whether we are misunderstanding each other, I am just trying to be polite while saying that John has overstepped his bounds. #Perhaps I should have handled this privately, but it was brought up in a public forum and I feel the need to address it here.

This may not seem like a big deal to some, but I make mandolins for a living and am very passionate about it. #It is important to me which mandolins a builder thinks are the best, as it is a reflection upon the work the builder is doing. #My favorite mandolins - the best I have ever played or heard, anywhere - are about a dozen of my favorite Loars. #Mandolins like Butch Baldassari's '25, Haynie's unsigned, Brian Aldridge's April '23, Hal Johnson's '22, and so on. #These are the mandolins that motivate me to go to the shop each day and pour my heart and soul into each instrument that I build.

Best regards,
Will Kimble
www.kimblemandolins.com

[ashemando]

I think you missed the tongue in the cheek Will.
This forum is for (friendly?)discussion I thought.

[pjlama]

Will, Thanks for clarifying because it did read to me like John thought it appropriate to use your endorsement for his mando and while it's easy to read between the lines that type of statement should be addressed especially with your position. I like the posts where pro players or respected builders have paid a compliment to a person's instrument and some type of validation or endorsement of their insrument being a hoss now exists; "Sam Bush said my POSenstien F5 was a real killer so it must be the greatest" folks are just being polite. If you like your instrument that's all that matters, I'm sure you don't go draggin your wife around at festivals asking folks if she's pretty http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ashemando]

OK I will make my own clarification. The points were:

I trust my own ears to know what appeals to ME. I am fortunate to have a great mando for comparison-to me the best I have ever heard live, including several high-enders.

I have recently ordered several of the new "hottest" mandos
per this Cafe, unheard in person. None have appealed to me, and I sent them back.

Perhaps Mandojohnny simply found that the New Millenium #did not appeal to him. Maybe the setup is fine. Did
not seem that many voiced such a possibility existing.

The obvious lesson, which I have learned and wanted to share: resist the temptation to order without seeing feeling and #hearing the instrument in person, no matter its pedigree and "buzz".

The reference to Will was a playful "josh". The response I expected was: "Well yours is pretty nice-not the best I have heard, and not as good as mine." #It's a shame the comment was not appreciated for the joke it was intended to be.

I think I am done posting on this site.

[JEStanek]

"I think I am done posting on this site."

Pity, a conversation is only as illuminating as the participants in it. I too have often made ambiguous funny references that have not been perceived as intended. I have to remember that many nuances for a good joke like timing, tone, and timbre are impossible in a text only format. Often the addition of an emoticon doesn't even prevent misunderstandings.

I like my instruments, I'm impressed by the efforts and generosity of Peter and Will. I'm equally impressed by MandoJohnny's review and stick-to-ativeness. I'm looking forward to his take on the one Peter sends along. I'm sure he'll be fair in his appraisal. At the end of the day, even if John doesn't enjoy the New MAD who's to say you or I won't.

I'm happy we don't all want the same sounds from our instruments. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

Jamie

[Will Kimble]

Sorry John, I guess I didn't understand the intended humor in your post. #Some things are easy for me to joke about, and some things I take very seriously. #I am with you on all your other points. #Please don't give up on posting here because of me. #

Will Kimble

[Crowder]

The reference to Will was a playful "josh". The response I expected was: "Well yours is pretty nice-not the best I have heard, and not as good as mine." It's a shame the comment was not appreciated for the joke it was intended to be.

I think I am done posting on this site.
Rather than quit, why not learn to use the smiley feature? Without it, I don't see how anyone would have read what you wrote and noticed that it was supposed to be funny.

It's easy to support Will's position. The "names" who post here have worked hard to earn their reputations, and prob ably not because they want to be "used" to make someone else's point.

[Perry]

The tone was thin, jangly and tinny, with no redeeming qualities


Perhaps Mandojohnny simply found that the New Millenium did not appeal to him

Not to keep harping on this but this seems more then just an issue of tone flavor.

I think you're right the Mix did not eappeal to him! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandroid]

IMHO , the graphite cloth CF case is the missing part. get the portable weight way down for weatherproof fun.

Italian racing Bicycle frame makers have shown a white silver cloth is offered to build with.

Titanium tuners and tailpiece? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[James P]

And those heavy tuners have got to go! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MikeEdgerton]

Perhaps Mandojohnny simply found that the New Millenium did not appeal to him. Maybe the setup is fine. Did
not seem that many voiced such a possibility existing.
I did http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


It isn't always popular to go against the grain but I am of the opinion that not every single mandolin made by any manufacturer is great.

Now maybe the Mix has a better chance than most makers to always be consistent, after all it does come out of a mold, but I am very much of the opinion that given 5 mandolins from the same maker some will sound better than the others. That's not meant to demeaning to any builder, I've seen it with guitars from Martin and Gibson as well as with mandolins. Sometimes things just happen right and sometimes things just happen wrong.

[pjlama]

Quote (ashemando @ June 16 2007, 12:49)
The reference to Will was a playful "josh". The response I expected was: "Well yours is pretty nice-not the best I have heard, and not as good as mine." It's a shame the comment was not appreciated for the joke it was intended to be.

I hope I wasn't too harsh but you don't mess with a man's living, family or faith (if he's inclined that way) and Will makes his living making mandolins. Even with the best intentions sensitivity is warranted in these areas. And to clarify I was making a general statement about folks having thier instruments' blessed by so and so and how silly that is. I hope I am not party to anyone leaving the board.

[tiltman]

So, back to the intent of this thread...

- Mandojohnny played a Mix A5 and did not like it.
- It may be a set up issue.
- Mandojohhny will be sent one to play for fun.
- Mandojohnny will report what he thinks here in a few weeks.

That's pretty cool.

My .02. I have had a Mix A5 for about 2 months. I am a mando-fortunate person (and wife-fortunate http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ).
All of my other mandos are Gibsons - F4, F5, Snakehead.
I'm fairly traditional in my musical and mando tastes.

The Mix A5 is certainly different. I personally like the thickness of the neck, I have "let go" other mandos whose necks were too thin.
I have played it in jams, with my Bluegrass Band, and hanging around the house. The chop cuts thru well; not only to my ears but in listening to recordings of band practices.
The tone is very even up and down the neck.
I've had compliments on the tone - some have even described it as "woody" with a look of surprise on their faces.
FWIW I don't drag my wife or my mandos around and ask other people what they think http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif any and all comments were unsolicited.

Sorry about the length of this post. I guess we could summarize by saying that not everyone will not like every mandolin. But we gather here to discuss, debate and (yes)disagree about mandos because we like them.

Kirk

[August Watters]

I got some quality time with a Mix A5 at the Joe Val Festival last February. It was one seriously impressive mandolin.

The Mix A5 scored high on both timbreal/dynamic range and clarity/playbility up the neck -- to me these are common weak spots that separate a great mandolin from a good one. Good bass response, and scorching high/mids.

There are plenty of players who will trash an instrument if it doesn't match their narrow criteria of what a "good" mandolin should sound like. They can also overlook the type of strengths the Mix A5 has, for the same reason. I think it's great we live in a time where there's lots of progress in the craft of instrument design, and our expectations of the sounds they produce is evolving, too.

August W