Dobro, resonator, resophonic mandolins?

[MatthewVanitas]

I'm considering getting a second mando to supplement my Flatiron Army/Navy.

I thought it'd be cool to go for max contrast, so was considering a resonator/resophonic/dobro mando.

I tried searching this board, but didn't find much info under those keywords. There's Dobro (out of production), Beltona, and Donmo these days, and then the Johnson cheapies, right? Did I miss any major brands?

I've heard good things about Donmo's ukes and guitars, so I'm pretty curious about that option. If their model turns out to be the best deal, I hope they offer alternate finishes, as the polished nickle is blinding-bright. Their "Galvo" and "Rust-Bucket" finishes they offer on their guitars look great though.

I'd appreciate any comments from reso-mando players, as to what advantages in tone/volume you feel the resonator gives you.

[mandroid]

those who bought one of the current National biscuit cone mandolins,
seem to use the word loud.
there are nickel and brass color options for the metal parts neither polished. wood body and neck is gloss.

the Rigel ones were another , Spider bridge type, recent but few.

[allenhopkins]

OK, as the owner of two resonator mandolins, plus several resonator guitars, "dobjo," ukulele, etc., here's my 2¢:

There are two kinds of resonators -- shorthand names "National," with a convex resonator with a wooden "biscuit" bridge glued to its highest point, and "Dobro," with a concave resonator, low in the center, on top of which sits a metal "spider" structure with the bridge attached in the middle. The two varieties are both products of the Dopera brothers, who first started the National Co. in the 1920's, then, after a buyout, started the Dobro Co. to compete with their former company. Hampered by patents, they couldn't make identical instruments, so they redesigned the resonator construction. The two companies later merged, then went out of business. Dobro went through several ownership changes, and is now a sub-trademark of Gibson. A new National Resophonic Guitar Co. was started in CA a few years ago, and they make the current National guitars (and mandolins).

What difference does this make? Well, other than showcasing my erudition, the two types of resonators have quite different sounds. The National style is loud, a bit harsh, but with great presence and well-suited for blues stylings. Although it's loud enough for bluegrass, it has a metallic rather than a "woody" quality, and sounds quite unlike the standard bluegrass mando. The Dobro style is quieter, with a long sustain and a "ringy" quality, and works beautifully in a variety of acoustic styles.

I don't think anyone is making Dobro-style mandolins any more, but they were around in the '40's and '50's, and pop up fairly regularly on eBay and at vintage instrument dealers. Prices generally run in the mid to high hundreds. My personal experience is that they weren't all that well made (my repairman described the neck block on my Dobro mando as "balsa wood"), so the used one you buy may need some work.

National-style mandolins are easy to get. Besides the excellent instruments that National Resophonic is making, priced a bit over $1K, there are imports, such as Johnson, that are acceptable mandos for less than half that. I haven't played a Donmo, but, as you say, they have a good reputation. Beltonas are fiberglass, but since 99% of the sound comes from the resonator anyway, the absence of a wooden body's not that crucial. I have played a Johnson resonator mandolin, and while it wasn't up to my '40's National, it was a good instrument for the price. As you noticed, however, the Johnsons are chrome-plated-flashy; my old National is painted brown, in a vain attempt to disguise its steel body as wood.

The new Nationals are, I believe, wood bodied, so they won't sound quite as metallic as the metal-bodied resonator mandos. I haven't played one, but have heard them very highly recommended. They're not quite as garish as the chrome-plated Johnsons; here's (http://www.nationalguitars.com/index_ie.html) a link to the National website.

Good luck! Resonator instruments are a blast, and a way to vary your sound without having to learn a whole new set of chords and licks.

[first string]

I've been doing some research on this myself of late...Unfortunately I believe Allen is correct in that there doesn't seem to be anyone making dobro (or spider bridge if you will) resonator mandolins. I've played the new Nationals and they are very nice, but they are not what I am looking for. The biscuit bridge certainly gives you plenty of volume, and a good bit of sustain, but not as much of the later as I would like in a resonator. There are of course the old Dobro and Regal brand ones, but (once again as Allen stated) they seem pretty cheaply made by todays standards.

So I am going to keep my eyes open, but if nothing comes along by the time I move out of my apartment and into a house--hopefully in a little over a year--I am going to take the leap, buy some tools, and try and build one myself. I've been looking into the information available on building resonators and in some ways they seem simpler than a traditional wood instrument, in so much as you can buy the most crucial element (the cone) prefab. In fact it seems like ninety percent of resonator builders use Quarterman cones anyway, so it's almost as if half the battle is taken care of for you.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or knows of someone who is building spider bridge mandolins, please send the info my way.

Cheers.

[EdSherry]

I have an older National triangular-shaped metal body, one of the new National wooden bodies, and a couple of older Dobro (and Regal) mandolins. #The older National (and the Johnson patterned on it) is quite harsh and cutting-sounding to my ears. #Great for ragtime and jug band music, but too harsh for most other uses. #

The Dobros are strange beasts: #the sound is hard to describe, not as harsh as the National, but somewhat muffled sounding.

I got my newer National second-hand from the Cafe classifieds, and I like it a lot. #Loud (!!) but with a surprisingly warm tone. #I've been playing it a lot recently in a wide variety of musical contexts (swing/Celtic/folk), and it's extremely versatile.

[mandroid]

I think the Beltona Ukes are FG body, the mandolins are plated, brass bodied.
may be made FS direct from NZ, the Ukes get wholsale exported, Elderly stocks them.

[weymann1]

I bought a new national and it made all of my other mandos sound blaaaaahhhh.

[Keith Miller]

have a look at the eye candy section plenty makers there.

[Jim Garber]

I have an old National style 2 silver mandolin. It is true when strung as a mandolin it has a very shrill sound. Part of that is that the scale is about 15 inches. I strung it with heavier strings, octaves on the two bass courses and tuned it down to E for blues and it sounds wonderful.

Jim

[Paul Hostetter]

I have made National mandolins, and I own several old ones: a '29 silver one, a Chicago-era Triolian (steel) and a '39 Supro (steel, with a gorgeous puke-yellow paint job that looks like naugahyde diner seats, clear tuner buttons and matching clear pickguard). The ones I made were wood-bodied, but essentially identical to the metal ones:

http://www.lutherie.net/national.mandolin.1.jpg http://www.lutherie.net/national.mandolin.5.jpg

As with the guitars, the brashest, harshest-sounding ones are steel bodied. Nickel-silver (not plated) bodied ones are bright but less brash. Plated brass ones are noticeably softer, and the most mellifluous ones are the wood-bodied ones. There were no production wooden mandolins in the old days, it's the one model of National that never had a wooden version. That's why I made some. Two of the three I finished went to MacGregor Gaines and Don Young, I kept the one above. They are nothing like their current production mandolins.

Mike Lewis in Paris makes magnificent resophonic mandolins, I just played a brand-fresh (May 2007) one. He is the Bill Collings of resophonic instruments. Every detail is completely perfect. He can make them with spider bridges. The ones the Rudy and Ed Dopyera made in the 70's, which had the spider and Dobro cone and metal bodies, were surprisingly good-sounding instruments. Way more interesting to me than the the Regal-made ones.

Never judge the sound of any resophonic mandolin (or guitar) by how it sounds to you while you are playing it. Sit ten feet in front of it and have someone else play it at/for you. Night and day.

I have recorded a great deal with the wood-bodied National, it's extremely sweet and gentle, even if it's also loud as can be. You can play them sweet: the overtones mesh in a really nice way.

[EdSherry]

Paul -- Thanks for the pictures. That's lovely!

[Paul Hostetter]

Thank you. At this point it's just a good old mandolin to me. I just took possession of it again the other day because I lent it to my friend who was patiently waiting for Mike Lewis to build his new baby. Mike's instruments are stunning, I've never met one I didn't like, but I'm glad to have mine back. Of all the reso mandolins I own, it's by far the favorite. The Triolian is a complete beater. Paint 90% gone, inexplicable holes drilled in it here and there, and so on. Martin Simpson found it in a hockshop in Florida years ago and a) couldn't pass it up but b) really didn't need it, so he bought it with my $$ and just sent it to me. It's not a pretty sight, but it's a downhome blues cudgel.

[Bren]

I have an early Donmo mandolin - despite some adjustment it has some overtones which you can hear when playing in a quiet solo environment. Any background noise, or presence of another instrument, seems to cancel these out though. In fact they are probably not apparent to most listeners - as Paul H says, you need to check the sound from about ten feet away - it really projects. You probably only hear these tones when you're hunched over it yourself. It's very much a creature of its musical and acoustic environment - playing with an accordion is great (for a change!)

I've played one of Don(Donmo)Morrison's more recently made mandos and he has refined it considerably - it's lighter, more stylish, less clunky and somewhat sweeter sounding (but it was always surprisingly sweet). It's still heavier than any mandolin you are used to though, so you might want to think about that if you intend to use it standing up a lot. I have removed the strap from mine as I am prone to back strain.

As far as I understand, there's no reason why Don couldn't make a mandolin in "galvo" finish. The nickel-plated brass is embarrassingly shiny at times, you can inadvertently send reflected light beams all over the room! Not really suitable for your average excruciatingly modest mandolin player, both the sound and appearance force you to step out front a bit , not always a bad thing.

The other DOnmo owner and myself played a few tunes in an echoey room and the effect was very beautiful, not at all like you might imagine for two metal instruments.

[adgefan]

Stuart Wailing builds resonator mandolins in north-east England. I bought one on ebay recently. It's very much a novelty to me, but if someone who wanted to use this as a gigging instrument it would do a good job.

http://www.wailing-guitars.co.uk/

[Paul Hostetter]

Speaking of galvanized finishes, the very first handmade steelbodied guitar prototypes Don Young and MacGregor Gaines made were galvanized like a garden bucket. It was a low-budge nod toward the Duco finishes that are now so (deservedly) popular, but they looked wonderful.

[Michael Gowell]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the 'Commodium' - the resonator built from a stainless steel bedpan. #I recall some very positive reviews of it a year or so ago.

[Paul Hostetter]

Maybe someone needs to rinse it out.

[Rick C.]

I have one of the newer National mandos, and I love it. It's loud, to be sure, and can sound metallic on the E string if you play hard and next to the bridge- BUT, I would not call it harsh.

I may be the only player in the world who bought one specifically to use as an Irish session instrument, and used it to win 1st place in Solo Mandolin at the midwest Fleadh Cheoil last year. A fiddler in a session recently said it sounded like "velvet steel", whatever that means.

What it means to me is that I don't have to revert to tenor banjo to be heard, and I can play it with the same force you'd play say, a Telecaster, and be heard just fine. I play now with a .050 Clayton white triangle, whereas I used to play in sessions with a 1.00 Jim Dunlop-- that should tell you something.

The Johnson metal-bodied mandos mentioned are not in the same league. I bought one on spec from Elderly and had it boxed back up within 15 minutes-- think Kabuki theater with a lot of reverb.

I recently played with a songwriter at the the Bluebird Cafe in Nashville with the National-- playing fills for songs is a different animal and I had to play very softly, but it sounded pretty good. Just depends on what you play-- I don't think it would be all that good for Bluegrass, but for any single-note style it's great.

Mick Moloney played mine for 3 notes, stopped and said, "I want one".


Rick

[Paul Hostetter]

I have worked over a couple of Johnsons. They need real help-replacing the biscuit and saddle entirely, reseating the neck, cleaning up frets and the rest of the setup-but the basics are there. The better cones are embossed.

[JEStanek]

Here's the link to the Keith Cary Commodium. (http://www.keithcary.com/commodium/)
They look pretty darn cool. DanB posted a link to one of his friends playing an old resonator with a slide. It sounded awesome. The weimereiner in the background was perfect. Perhaps he can post the link again... (I had downloaded it but its 25mb)

Jamie http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[Jarmbru]

Hi,

Ran across this old post in Mando Cafe. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?31965-Dobro-resonator-resophonic-mandolins

I'm wanting a spider bridge/cone resonator and since I can't find them and a good friend of mine is a luthier I've asked him to make me one. We're looking for plans and sources for mandolin resonator parts. Anything you could tell us would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.lutherie.net/national.mandolin.1.jpg http://www.lutherie.net/national.mandolin.5.jpg

As with the guitars, the brashest, harshest-sounding ones are steel bodied. Nickel-silver (not plated) bodied ones are bright but less brash. Plated brass ones are noticeably softer, and the most mellifluous ones are the wood-bodied ones. There were no production wooden mandolins in the old days, it's the one model of National that never had a wooden version. That's why I made some. Two of the three I finished went to MacGregor Gaines and Don Young, I kept the one above. They are nothing like their current production mandolins.

[dcoventry]

A few things:

The new RM-1's are a thing of beauty both to hear and behold. Way cool.

As mentioned abouve and 6 years ago, the few Rigel Reso's are bad@ss to be sure. I'll get one some day, nmark my words.