Mando-Viola

[Jeff Hildreth]

This was the instrument of choice/invention of Lloyd Loar.
The Mando-Viola was 5 course double strung tuned (bass to treble) Eb,Bb,F,C,Eb according to Roger Siminoff's web site.

As Mr Loar was head of a mandolin orchestra and a "concert' group I would assume the repertoire was classical if not classical in style.

The question is.. what is the logic of the tuning..
first as it is not something common as in CGDAE
and why the repetition of the Eb bass and treble assuming this is correct ....why not G on the treble

Anyone have a clue...as to why this tuning?

Also looking for the scale length..
I sent an E mail to Mr Siminoff but have not heard back.

It was obvious this instrument did not meet favor with the public...I believe it may be the "one".....

Thanks

Jeff

[Jim Garber]

The question we need to ask of Mr. Siminoff is: how does he know that this is the tuning of this instrument? It doesn't quite make sense unless Loar were just experimenting.

Jim

[Jeff Hildreth]

Jim,
My thoughts exactly.. but I understand Loar wrote music just for this instrument.

Jeff

[danb]

It's an idea that's resurvaced in Irish folk- they call them citterns or 10-string bouzoukis. Like Loar's very likely was, they get re-tuned a lot. GDAEA, GDADA, ADADA, etc etc are all common. Lloyd's instrument was described to me by Roger Siminoff as having spectacular tone & balance, something very few 10-string instruments achieve. Modern builders are generally reluctant to attempt one, or those that have find it difficult to get decent tone and balance out of all 5 courses.

Here's the mandolin archive record if you'd like to see pictures:
Loar Mando-Viola (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?65)

Other "period" companies building these include 2 different modesl by Vega.. one was a slightly-longer mandolin with a C course, the other was an even-longer mandola that would be suitible for octave (GDAEB) tuning.

The Irish folk world has also churned out at least a few of these things in bowed format, CGDAE fiddles or violas, depending on what you want to call them.. and don't get started on the Renaisance Citterns & Lutes of myriad tunings!

[Jim Garber]

The question (I think) was not why build a 10-string/5-course instrument, but why that particular tuning? I suppose you could retune to whatever you want but how does RS know that it was that tuning? Was it written in some journal by Loar? Why not use a more standard tuning. I would doubt that Loar would need to tune to Eb for instance, just to play with horns -- I would think he were accomplished a musician to use a more std tuning.

I have owned a Vega 10 strings cylinder back and had played a 10 string Monteleone mando-mandola and both seemes to lose it on the low string. I played the Vega DGDAE. I wonder what Loar did to make it work across the range. Perhaps his tuning helped.

Jim

[Jeff Hildreth]

I heard back from Roger Siminoff. Loars records indicate the Eb tuning..
but he said it was not clear why.. simply saying that it attested to Loars "genius".

Roger says he tuned it and played it starting With Low F,C,G,D,A

String length around 15"....

Jeff

[Jim Garber]

Are the original strings on it and, if so, what gauges were they?

Jim