Problem with godin a8

[Jim Nollman]

I just received a Godin A8. It exhibits the same issues mentioned in other threads here, especially the common problem of the action drifting skyward from the nut to the bridge. Clearly the problem is caused by the bridge being too tall, and not adaptable. I am aware that other Godin owners have fixed the problem by unbolting the neck, setting a shim to change the neck angle, and then rebolting. I don't think I ought to accept this solution, since the problem is basic#to Godin's design. #So I contacted Godin about this structural issue. Of course they are aware that it exists. #They told me to send it back because they now are building mandolins with an adaptable bridge. Lowering the bridge height by 1/8 of inch should not only solve the problem of drifting action, but also stop the tailpiece cover from vibrating because the strings are touching it.

But there is yet another problem with this instrument that I #can't seem to solve. I'd really like to get a handle on it BEFORE I send mine back to the Godin factory. I worry that it too is a flaw in the design, and not something that ONLY my instrument exhibits.

The strings produce varying degrees of sympathetic vibration that muddy the tone. What I am trying to describe here is NOT string sustain. As you would expect, the rumble #becomes much louder when I play plugged in. #This muddiness is most pronounced on the A string. #I have tried to solve the problem by weaving a buckskin cord through the strings between the bridge and tailpiece. I also took off the tailpiece cover. Those alterations help a little bit, but they also tell me#that I haven't yet solved the root cause of the sympathetic vibration. I am now#wondering if the rumble might be caused by Godin's design of using 4 metal, knife-edge pickups on the top of the bridge that actually hold the strings.

I am hoping somebody reading this has an idea of what may be causing this SV? I've never heard this rumble in any of my other mandolins. I'd especially like to hear from other Godin players.

I also want to add here, that I like this instrument a lot. The tone is very sweet which is quite unusual for an electric mandolin. For that reason, i really need to get to the bottom of this so the next instrument they send, works right out of the box.

[pathfinder]

I owned a G-8 while in Toronto in 2002/03. #Narrow neck, good action, good balance (plugged-in or unplugged) with its on-board pick-up. #I recall trading it for something else, but I forget what.

You're presenting a well-described concern to the Cafe about your problem, but why are you reluctant to discuss it with Godin in Quebec Canada? #Put it out there to them. #That's your first move. #

Perhaps changing that bridge might be the answer. Clearly you've got a better ear than mine, so why not use it and communicate/ negotiate with the builder? #Anybody else? #

And PS, I hope you get this problem solved, but why not deal with the builder first? #It's just conmon courtesy.

[MikeEdgerton]

Finding out if his problem is common or unique to his instrument doesn't seem out of place to me.

[mandroid]

Prior A8 owner, [resold it when gigs to use it evaporated in fee splitting resistance.]

Action situation can be dealt with by shims between the neck and the body.
that is the inherent benefits of bolt on neck.
you can personlize the action to suit your needs.
I used some flatwashers around the 4 screws.
loosened all 4 [and strings] just removed one screw at a time, slid washer in place. didn't even have to remove neck.

action goes down when neck moves up in relation to bridge height.

I had a sense the tailpiece to bridge relationship could be better by TP being longer, and thus closer to the bridge, angle past the bridge increased,[a downforce change adjustable,Ala banjo?] and as wide as the bridge notches to draw parralell , rather than inward towards tailpiece.
I discussed the top G string getting knocked off the perch with mr.McLish , the pickup manufacturer, the drawdown angle was mentioned.
Godin was less, due to longer distance to end of TP.

[aside] more to spec: A solid body electric retrofit of 4 single notch pickups included a screwed down string guide, made as part of the retrofit
[11mm high, at bridge,4 at the guide, 35.5mm between]

moving neck, angling up, and bridge up too would increase pressure on bridge, so string would be more firmly held between the bumps on the pickup.
------
as its the same 2 piece tailpiece with sliding cover as used on most acoustic mandolins , felt in the top, and leather under the strings cures metal to metal problem.

Mfg. business choice, price of standard off the shelf TP , is part of the modest pricepoint.

[Jim Nollman]

But why not deal with the builder first? #It's just common courtesy.[QUOTE]

I did deal with the builder first. Before I placed my original order, I specifically mentioned to the Godin contact, the issue of bad neck setup described by so many A8 players on the Cafe. He replied by telling me he'd pass on my "request" to the setup guy. 3 weeks later #I received the instrument, with the same neck angle problem, and thus unplayable beyond my living room. Emailing the guy, he apologized, and THEN mentioned that Godin was aware of the problem AND had a new "improved" adaptable bridge that would solve the problem. You know, I don't even mind sending it back on my dime. I mind that, apparently, Godin doesn't mind selling these flawed instruments to players without the adaptable bridge. Consider my letter a heads up to members of the Cafe.

Pathfinder, its true that i started the thread to let off steam. But I had also noticed the sympathetic vibration issue, and was unable to get to the bottom of it myself. That was the main reason I wrote. I think that's pretty clear, as Mike mentions.

I couldn't tell if the issue was mine alone, or if was common to all A8s. I don't think it should be hard to comprehend why i might want to ask that question. If I'd said I owned a Merkle, no one would know what i was talking about. Right? I like to think that some Cafe members will appreciate the info in my story.

The good news is I may have discovered the cause of the sympathetic vibration. I'd appreciate any comments just in case I'm nuts. The instrument has no sound hole to release the sound waves from the body, AND it has two internal cavities. #A sound hole serves a few functions. It places the sound center into the air (with F and round holes placing it at different places). Also, it helps balance the overall volume of so many frequencies. My instrument tends to vibrate more when I play the A string, and rumbles the most on the D note of the A string. So I'm wondering if the increased muddy sustain I hear is actually the resonant frequency of the box. if its true, i can live with it. I'll play the A string a little softer, and maybe a little higher up the neck. If this is true, is there some easy fix to stop the box from resonating so much on the A string?

I'll say it again. I really do like the basic design and sound of this very original instrument. It is the best sounding electric i've ever played, and I've owned 3 others, including a Gibson I played for 15 years. I do want to connect with other A8 owners, who might be able to offer me their own conclusions about how to optimize this fine sounding and looking instrument. Thanks for the tips mandroid.

[pathfinder]

I'm sorry if any offence was taken. #It wasn't my intent. #I remember my little A-8 fondly from my Toronto days, and sometimes wish I hadn't traded it in. #There wasn't a problem with the miserable 'sympathetic' effect which some mandos will give you. #I especially remember how cleanly it played through an amp or a PA after hours of being 'goofed on' acoustically. #

Apologies aside, my closing advice would be this. #Show some patience with this axe and get the problem fixed with the builder. #Godin's aware that the Mandolin Cafe swings a big circle with players. Put their 'feet to the fire' and let them know their product is being roundly criticized. #Isn't this what accountability is all about? #

Peace.

[ErikAitch]

Apologies aside, my closing advice would be this. Show some patience with this axe and get the problem fixed with the builder. Godin's aware that the Mandolin Cafe swings a big circle with players. Put their 'feet to the fire' and let them know their product is being roundly criticized. Isn't this what accountability is all about?
I really don't understand why, when told -up front- that the buyer is aware of known issues, they sold him one setup "old" style. And having him return it on his own dime, so they can do what they said they would in the first place.

[Jim Nollman]

thanks for the extra words, Pathfinder.

I've been playing this mandolin all day, on my couch, learning the April Waltz and North Shore, and watching Steve Nash do his magic in the basketball playoffs. I think this Godin has a terrific sound to it, an uncanny mix of a bluegrass instrument's standard bark and the whispery sustain of any unplugged solid body. It's definitely a keeper. I also tried playing it through an LR Baggs preamp and a fender twin. I thought Chris Thile had the truest amplified mandolin sound I'd ever heard when I saw him playing a Dude with a Shertler pickup. This Godin matches it, at least amplified. I can't wait to experiment with some effects —chorus delay, etc — and come up with some new tones. Maybe try playing the April waltz with a mandolin having the #growling sustain of a bagpipe.

I'll wait a few days to hear back from Godin. But unless they are willing to send me an instrument without first receiving this one, I might just end up doing what mandroid suggests, and unbolt the neck and add a few flat washers to raise the angle. I'm not willing to wait another 3 weeks to a month just to get a new one.

[Jim Nollman]

just to conclude this thread. i had a good talk with Godin this morning. A new mandolin with their new adaptable bridge installed, AND setup by their luthier, will be mailed this week. It's great to know they stand by their work.

[Jim Nollman]

An Update:

Yesterday I got my 2nd new Godin A8 from the factory.

Yes, they put in a new adaptable bridge. Yes, they did acknowledge that the old bridge had not been quite the perfect design, because it was simply built too high for that instrument's neck angle. I also think the electronics may be a little cleaner on this updated model. They were nice to choose me an instrument with some figured wood on the top plate.

This second instrument's new adaptable bridge has been set at the lowest height possible. And yes, it is still too high for the neck. So I wrote the Godin rep again, telling him that nothing had really been fixed, and that shimming the neck by a professonal luthier would be as necessary on this 2nd instrument as it had been on the first one.

This time he told me thanks for offering the critique. He'd pass it on to management. Nothing more. It's mine to fix.

So I brought the mandolin to a luthier yesterday afternoon. He'll unbolt the neck and put in some shims to raise the neck angle. He will also raise the adaptable bridge to get a sharper string angle over the saddles, which he suggests I'll like.

I am sincere to say that I hesitate to criticize any builder on this cafe. But i do think this issue with Godin has been mentioned enough times by other buyers, that my experience is worthwhile to mention. I had made the problem as clear with Godin as I possibly could at every step of the process.

I also believe that the sound, and the thoughtful electronics of the Godin A8 still makes it a worthwhile instrument to own. And no, I am not happy about having to add on an automatic $100 to the cost of the instrument, before I can even play it.

I almost didn't buy this Godin because of the problem of the neck angle reported so often on the Cafe. I can only hope that this update helps anyone else, as those previous posts helped me. Other people considering a Godin mandolin, need to know that, as received from the factory, they will probably need to have this shimming job done.

[Dave Martin]

I just bough a used one, and it will need the shim under the neck. There was quite a surplus of relief in the neck, corrected so far with the rod, 4mm wrench, but the short end of an allen. The access to the rod is too steep to allow a straight tool. I want this for mellow amplified sounds, and am thinking about a softer shim than washers or hard plastic or hardwood. My theory is that the softer material will dampen the vibration from neck to body, perhaps taking off some of the high end.

Thoughts appreciated in advance,

Dave

[pops1]

I guess when I shim a neck on an electric guitar I make a tapered wooden shim that will give me the neck angle I desire and fit securely the whole distance of the neck pocket, not just on some washers. I know the washers will do the trick, but I prefer the wooden wedge when I make a shim.

[kjbllc]

I like pops idea , I have two and used pearwood on both, washers would leave a gap . I can't see using a different material at that point on the instrument would make a noticeable difference, but if you are making the shim , make a couple when you find out the right fit, then switch them out and check the sound?