Homemade picks

[Interlochen-Mando]

The standard plastic picks that I can get around here just aren't getting it for me anymore, and none of the music stores in the area carry any type of a very heavy rounded triangle pick. #So I got online to see where I could order some when I remembered that last summer one of my sons had found the shell of a painted turtle that was picked clean. #I found it out in the shed and with my scroll saw, a file, and some sandpaper made these two picks out of the belly plate. #One is 2.0mm and the other 1.8mm
They make quit a difference in ease of play and sound. #Especially when strumming rythym chords.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/488584.JPG

[Bill Snyder]

I was concerned that this might be a thread about using shell from the Hawksbill turtle - the sourse of the old tourtise comes, picks, etc. I know Scott does not allow posts about making items from their shell as they are on the endagered species list.
I wonder how well your picks will hold up. They look good.

[Jerry Byers]

I checked the posting guidelines about tortoiseshell, and it only talks about the sale and transfer of TS. I don't see anything about preventing the discussion of TS.

[Bill Snyder]

I did not say it did.

[Interlochen-Mando]

As posted, these were made from the shell of a common Painted Turtle(deceased) that my son found in the woods. #I plan on making more picks as roadkill Painted & Snapping turtles are common around here.

[MikeEdgerton]

You could market them as Road-Kill Kustom Picks and even identify the road they were found on. This could be great marketing. I would also like to know how they hold up.

[fredfrank]

Maybe Snarling Dogs could...oh, never mind.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Steve Cantrell]

Looks good, and if it's legal even better. I hope you post updates on they wear, etc.

[Jerry Byers]

I know Scott does not allow posts about making items from their shell as they are on the endagered species list.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[John Craton]

Don't know what the laws are in Michigan, but here in Indiana it is now illegal to make anything out of a turtle shell even if it is found after the turtle has died and the shell is picked clean. Now, killing one for its shell is one thing, but finding one already dead??? Nonetheless, that's the law down here nowadays. Hope other states are a bit more sane.

[Bill Snyder]

I know Scott does not allow posts about making items from their shell as they are on the endagered species list.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I never said he did not allow the discusion of tortoise shell.
Look at Scott's last post in this thread. (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=37800;hl=tortoise)
I quote Scott
"Since someone has identified themselves as having this material on hand and working with it, we have to close the subject."
However I also noted that since this thread did not concern the shell of the hawksbill turtle that it was a moot point.

[Jerry Byers]

Thanks for that thread, Bill.

This is not directed towards Bill, just an observation - being labeled as endangered, doesn't mean it's illegal to own. I'm willing to bet that a lot of players own a TS pick. Maybe we should just throw them in the fireplace, along with all the TS products made during the 19th and 20th century. And don't forget those ivory piano keys too.

[danb]

Yes, we need to walk a fine line on the subject. hawksbill turtles are on the endangered list, and to counter the chance of new shell being passed as old the endangered species act also forbits trade in old shell. So you can own it, but it's not legal to sell/import etc (my read on the subject). You'll find some t-shell picks with old mandolins sometimes, but we need to do our part and not let the cafe become a place where people buy/sell/trade in the picks. I'm not certain which species the act is limited to, to be honest.

[Jerry Byers]

...we need to do our part and not let the cafe become a place where people buy/sell/trade in the picks.
I totally agree.

[Interlochen-Mando]

In Michigan there are open trapping seasons on turtles. What you can't do is sell any portion of the animal(s) you take. Pesonal consumption/use only.

[MandoSquirrel]

So, I've been wondering,does anyone else find the "MOCK TURTLE FLATPICK"'s(made from "heavy gauge horn material") acceptable? I bought some from Elderly awhile back to try them, & they seem to me a reasonable facsimile; I save them as my "dress" picks, especially for my "light classical", "parlor" mandolin.

[Jerry Byers]

If you want to loan me one, I can give you a comparison with a Tortis, TS, Wegen (both black and white), Pro-Plec, and some others I have around. What is the shape of the horn picks? I have a collection of both triangle- and mondo-shaped picks.

[stevebenn]

OK, as one of the few, maybe only, herpetologists on MandoCafe I have to ask ... are your picks made from the bone of the turtles bottom shell (plastron) or from the scutes covering the bone. Tortoise shell from the Hawksbill is actually the scute, analogous to our fingernails (keratinized protein) that covers the bony plates of the shell. In most cases the scutes of other turtle species are far too flimsy to be used for much of anything ... plastron scutes tend to be a little thicker, but not much.

SteveB

[Jerry Byers]

Who are you asking?

[Interlochen-Mando]

OK, as one of the few, maybe only, herpetologists on MandoCafe I have to ask ... are your picks made from the bone of the turtles bottom shell (plastron) or from the scutes covering the bone. Tortoise shell from the Hawksbill is actually the scute, analogous to our fingernails (keratinized protein) that covers the bony plates of the shell. In most cases the scutes of other turtle species are far too flimsy to be used for much of anything ... plastron scutes tend to be a little thicker, but not much.

SteveB
These were made from the bone of the bottom shell.

[MandoSquirrel]

If you want to loan me one, I can give you a comparison with a Tortis, TS, Wegen (both black and white), Pro-Plec, and some others I have around. What is the shape of the horn picks? I have a collection of both triangle- and mondo-shaped picks.
Standard Fender 351, triangle, or rounded triangle.

I've tried most varieties of flatpicks at one time or other, I find the horn to be interestingly okay, though I'm mostly using the Pro Plecs from JazzMando. I can't see paying $20 for picks, though if I made any money playing, I might, if I really thought the picks enhanced the sound or playing.

[barry k]

Yall might want to check out the commentary by George on the Gruhn guitars website. He provides some in-sight on some new CITES amendments regarding TS and Pernumbuco wood ( fiddle bows) and from his statements, it looks like pics cannot even be made from antique pieces anymore?, and fiddle players wont be able to transport their bows internationally.
sorry for getting off the track a little.

[Jerry Byers]

CITES is specific to sale, trade, and transfer. WRT to TS, it does not cover personal possession. HOWEVER, it could affect state-to-state transfer. So, you can possess TS, with certain limitations to transfer. You can even rework TS, but you will forfeit the ability to obtain a permit for transfer.

The disturbing part of the CITES declaration is that confiscated items could be destroyed. This certainly voids ANY benefit and makes any contribution null and void. In other words, the wood or animal was destroyed in vain. I personally would like to see the rework clause redone. If you have a documented piece of material and it's deemed legal, what damage is done if it is reworked?

[bgmando]

How do your turtle bone picks compare tone wise to the plastic you were using, or the "scutes" hawksbill tortoise shell picks that many people use?

I suspect making picks for personal use from a common terrapin or turtle is not illegal.
But any attempt at commercialization does violate state and federal wildlife laws.

[Interlochen-Mando]

How do your turtle bone picks compare tone wise to the plastic you were using, or the "scutes" hawksbill tortoise shell picks that many people use?

# I suspect making picks for personal use from a common terrapin or turtle is not illegal.
#But any attempt at commercialization does violate state and federal wildlife laws.
Tone-wise, the turtle bone picks when strumming rythym chords have a much more clear and amplified sound. Louder and brighter. When flat picking the tone is more soft and full. A richer but quieter sound.

[Bing Cullen]

The beauty of tortoise shell (or turtle shell) picks is the material is much harder than plastic per mm thckness. So a relatively thin TS pick will be harder than the equivalent thickness plastic. I also have the perception that they make less pick noise than the plastic. Its a pity that we can't farm them like they do crocodiles and still have the product. It is a bit ridiculous that old stock in existence can't be used or traded. I only have one that I've had for about 40 years and it is still usable although with a few chips out and its getting smaller.

[Crowder]

I never thought I'd find a pick worth $20 either, but the Tortis picks are excellent.

[mythicfish]

They're almost as good as the ones that I make out of paolycarbonate for $0.05.

Curt

[JeffD]

I few thoughts.

I think the deal is that if folks started using already dead animals to harvest for picks, or piano keys, etc., it helps create a market for the material itself, and it becomes hard to prevent others from participating in that market illegaly, by killing the animals and then finding them dead. Its a fine line, I admit.

I am surprized, I have to admit, when someone refuses to spend money on picks. The type of pick makes such a huge difference in sound and playability. Folks would spend a fortune getting their instrument set up in such a way to achieve such benefits, or spend a fortune purchasing an instrument that is incrementally better in sound or playability - and then try and save $20.00 bucks? #I am a fan of the tortis and wegen picks. Certainly try before you buy - but if a particular pick makes a difference - instead of comparing with the price of cheap picks, compare with the cost of achieving that difference through other means.

Besides the romantic history of it - I am not convinced that the real tortois picks are that much better than the synthetic materials we have today. And while I am no raving animal activist, why hurt the poor guy if you don't have to.

[BlueMountain]

As your turtle bone picks are bone and not the same as the tortoise shell picks of old, you might try making picks out of cow bone and see what you think. I bought some bone truss nut covers from Taiwan recently on ebay. Not very expensive, and they'd make good blanks for experimenting.

[Kid Charlemagne]

It is a bit ridiculous that old stock in existence can't be used or traded. I only have one that I've had for about 40 years and it is still usable although with a few chips out and its getting smaller.

Creates a market. It's the same reason that some of the African nations have stockpiles of ivory seized from poachers over the last decade or two,and haven't (or can't) sold it off. You start selling the material, people start trading in it, pretty soon they start looking for a place to get more when the supply runs out.


They're almost as good as the ones that I make out of paolycarbonate for $0.05.

And this is why I don't understand the fixation on hawksbills. Those picks were made when synthetics were in their infancy, or didn't exist at all.

These days, there are so many good substitutes for tortoiseshell (including the Tortis stuff) that there's no reason to act as though you can't get a terrific pick from any number of other, legal materials.

[JeffD]

Kid you said it better than me.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[B. T. Walker]

Kid Charlemagne did say it right, but he's talking hawksbills, and the original poster is talking red-eared sliders. #I wouldn't want a pick made from either of 'em.

Of course, I'm writing this wearing a leather belt and leather shoes, swinging my mandos from leather straps, and still burping beef steak from Father's Day, so I'm not guilt-free. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Timbofood]

Cows are raised for it, #I love my Tony Lama boots! Nothing is better than a 2 inch thick Porterhouse! If someone could grill me a tofu porterhouse that tasted better than old gym socks and made a pair ot "Pleather" boots that were comparable. I would stop using Beef and its byproducts. #With picks it HAS happened! #Great products that really are close to the original thing. #Shell has not been a legal item for as longer than I have been picking. #We get used to what we have. Better poly materials are being developed all the time. I am really glad to have the consistency from pick to pick from these manufacturers.

[Wesley]

Who does it make a difference to anyway?? When the last time any of you heard a recording and said "Hmmm - that MUST be a real tortoise shell pick he's using. I know it". For that matter how can you tell what type of pick someone is using in a concert situation either?

[Jerry Byers]

Who does it make a difference to anyway?? When the last time any of you heard a recording and said "Hmmm - that MUST be a real tortoise shell pick he's using. I know it". For that matter how can you tell what type of pick someone is using in a concert situation either?
You may not know the type of pick, but you can sure here the pick click when it happens.

[Aran]

I met a guy at a festival last year (who will remain unknown) and what he does is buy old Parisien mirrors with tortoise shell backs, then brings them to his workshop to make picks, I bought one from him and it was fantastic and managed to hold onto to it until a couple of months back. I was very sorry to lose it as I can't find anywhere in Dublin, Ireland to buy decent picks or heavy gauge strings, thank god for the internet and being able to order these things with ease now, (although not the real tortoise picks of course)

[Jack Roberts]

I'm making aluminum picks out of the hood of a Prius that crashed on the interstate nearby. We can add them the the RoadKill Pics product line.

[Soupy1957]

I once made a kite out of a flying squirrel...is that illegal?

Seriously though, in case you're interested, here's the list as of July/2007:

EndangeredSpecies (http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/SpeciesReport.do?groups=C&listingType=L&mapstatus=1)

-Soupy1957

[jmcgann]

Pick mavens: At Djangobooks.com (http://www.djangobooks.com) you can get custom made Gypsy Jazz (about 2mm with beveled edges) picks made by Tortis especially for Djangobooks.com. I picked one up at Django in June and have been using it on my octave mando for the Django stuff...overkill for regular mando (I stick to my 1.5 Dunlop 500 series Tortex for that).

I chose the Tortex over natural shell in 1982 when I A/B tested them and realized that I prefer the slightly darker sound that the Tortex provides. Real shell is also real bright IMHO...I also hate the idea of wiping out tortoises for tone.

[JeffD]

Of course, I'm writing this wearing a leather belt and leather shoes, swinging my mandos from leather straps, and still burping beef steak from Father's Day, so I'm not guilt-free. # #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I wear leather, burp beef, kill an occational rainbow trout, and I AM guilt free. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mrkrishna]

About 1990, I somehow ended up with a TS pick. It turned out to be from the wrong species, and right away it started to 'shell' around the edges that were hitting the strings.Eventually, (about three months) it was useless from all the chipping. Many years later, a conversation I had with Tony Rice in Winnipeg about this pick. It ended up getting me a very nice gift. It was a 3 corner, quite thick one, and , though I only used it on my guitar, has lasted me more than 3000 hours. It's about worn out now, but that little piece of shell has sure made a difference to me over the years. To this day, if I do not have it with me, I can't tell what a guitar's sound actually has the potential for.It's agreat conversation opener at Fests too...Kerry K

[Mikey G]

I have a medium and heavy bevelled edge pick from RedBear picks. To be honest, the noise created by the picks makes me keep going back to my 1.0 mm Dunlop plastic pick. I really hear the clicking sound when picking the A nd E strings.

[mandroid]

Duncan polycarbonate big stubby ! nice concave grip in the middle.
well petroleum is not on the endangered list yet.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Spruce]

"...it looks like pics cannot even be made from antique pieces anymore?"

It never was legal since the passage of the Endangered Species Act in '73 to sell picks made from reclaimed material....
Despite what the folks selling them at bluegrass festivals might say.....

"I wear leather, burp beef, kill an occational rainbow trout, and I AM guilt free."

I was in Zihuatanejo last year, and heard tales of the factory that used to exist in town that turned the Hawksbill into sausages...

Combine those tales with observing these incredible--and vulnerable--creatures in their dwindling natural habitat, and we should be feeling guilty as hell that we put a 50 dollar bounty on a 1-square-inch piece of their carapace.

[Lee Callicutt]

As your turtle bone picks are bone and not the same as the tortoise shell picks of old, you might try making picks out of cow bone and see what you think.
I roughed out a cowbone pick as an experiment last weekend. It produces a lot of volume with very little effort, but can sound a little harsh and clicky.