Making mandolin with a wider neck

[Lab]

The first mandolin I built was an A style flatback...I followed the blueprint and was pleased with the outcome but found that I would like to have made the neck a little wider. The one I am working on now will have a neck that is 1/4" wider....Will this end up biting me in the end or do builders sometimes do this.....Lab

[Mario Proulx]

Some folks like wider necks, myself included. It does make the pinky stretch a little more painful when holding down a full G chord, but otherwise, I like it.

That said, you're making yours 1/4" wider than what?

[labraid]

Maybe some of the classical players will comment here. The original Emberghers were 7/8" at the nut.
My standard is 1 3/16"

[Fretbear]

1-3/16" is plenty roomy. The string spread (between and inside the courses) can be made at the nut as per your preference. I have a 1-3/16" nut and originally spread everything out as much as possible. I recently made a new nut to tighten up the string spread a little, and ended up with a total string spread of 1" from outer G to outer E, which is wider (obviously) then you could manage on a 1" neck. I also believe there is an ancillary benefit of more neck mass contributing tonally.

[Antlurz]

Make it however wide it needs to be to fit your hand. If you can't play it because you can't fret it, it's nothing more than junk (to you).

Peoples hand structures are different. What one person loves, another will hate.

If you are building it to fit YOU, make it whatever size you need it to be. Your needs are the only important thing here if you are building it for yourself.

Just study enough to know it will fit YOU before you start cutting. An actual 1/4" addition is quite severe,. when most mandolin neck size differences are measured in 1/16th's, or thereabouts. Just make sure you aren't overestimating...

Ron

[martinedwards]

my mandonaughts have wide necks because I have big hands and the mando I bought off ebay, I just couldnt play!!

I've settled at 32mm (1 5/16")

I've built a few now, mainly for guitarists who are taking up mando and that width feels a bit like a 12 string guitar

I built a guitar shaped OM/zouk with the same spacing

[AW Meyer]

I don't know the nut widths of Radim Zenkl's Capek mandolin and Breedlove mandola, but the pictures in the Winter/'06 edition of Fretboard Journal indicate that they are very wide necks to accommodate Radim's style of play.

[Bruce Clausen]

Radim's necks are probably the widest of anyone's, and he sure gets around on them. I've had two instruments built, one with a nut width of 1-5/16ths, another at 1-1/4. As Fretbear suggests, the real important measurement is string spacing. I figured on 3/32nds clearance to the edge on the outermost strings, and went from there. So one mandolin has 1-1/8th inch across from string 1 to string 8, the other has 1-1/16th. But the string spacing could be changed slightly without any problem. There are other variables as well for neck feel: neck shape, scale length, string height and tension, etc. Preferences seem to depend on what kind of playing you do, and whether you came to mandolin from scratch or from guitar or fiddle. And of course the size of your hands.

--BC

[Martin Jonas]

Maybe some of the classical players will comment here. The original Emberghers were 7/8" at the nut.
Indeed they were, and my 1915 Embergher with its narrow nut and radiused and sloping fingerboard is a supremely comfortable instrument to play (and I do not have small hands). It's all a question of personal preferences, and playing style. A very narrow nut allows things that would be impossible with a wider nut, such as cleanly double-stopping two adjacent strings with one fingertip.

Martin

[Bruce Clausen]

Good point, Martin. I agree hand size is not really critical-- after all, we don't see pianos being built with narrower and wider keys for different players. On mandolin though there's lots of choices, so we can give up one thing to gain another. With my widish neck, I can't get a fifth with one fingertip, but I can play chords involving open strings between fingered strings that would be difficult (for me) with the narrower neck. Splitting of courses also seems easier once you put a little more space between the strings in each pair. As far as straight scales and arpeggios go, I don't notice much difference from one neck to another. It's worth experimenting and finding your own compromise.

--BC

[Gibsonman]

I have rather large hands, but I perfer 1 1/16 0r 1 1/8. That feels right to me.

[Bob DeVellis]

I like a wide neck for the stuff I try to play. More room for left-hand ornamentation and I tend not to play closed chords. Sobells have 1 1/2" at the nut, generally. Now that's wide! But because the neck is shallow, kind of similar to a classical guitar's in profile, they're very comfortable. Things get tricky when you compare different width necks that also have different neck profiles. A Collings-style V-neck would, I suspect, be pretty unworkable at 1 1/2" . Similarly, a narrow neck with a shallow profile might end up feeling pretty strange. When ordering from a builder, if you can't play one of that maker's instruments or compare to another maker's with similar dimensions, it can be kind of a [game played with dice] shoot. 1 1/8" on one neck profile may feel very different than the same nut width on another. What "feels right" depends on more than the nut width.

[Bernie Daniel]

I would like to add another element to this discussion. #I advise players to develope flexibility.

I have several mandolins with nut widths ranging from 1.06" to 1.19", a mandola at 1.31" and a mandocello at 1.52".

Yes, the difference is noticable but after a few minutes the hand kind of adapts and to me at least it seems "normal".

Of course some of the chord patterns that are done on the mandolin or mandola are not possible on the m'cello.

For the record I do have hands on the large size -- knuckle to knuckle (making a fist) 3.75" and long fingers -- but even so playing the narrowest mandolin I have does not seem unreasonable.

Just my take on it. #When Loar first introduced the F5 I do not think players asked him for a wider neck (I hope I do not have to "eat my words" on that one).

Someone joked that we play narrow necks because "Bill liked them". #Not so!

I know that was a joke but Lloyd Allayre Loar did not consult Bill Monroe on the F5 design -- you can take that to the bank. #

We play narrow necks because that is what Lloyd liked -- Bill just played what Lloyd made.

[steve V. johnson]

I'm with BobD, and I like 1.25" or a tad more, along the Sobell lines. I do rarely use closed chord shapes.

It's interesting to find out what builders will make wider necks than the Loar/modern standard.

Thanks,

stv

[bsny]

Check out a Flatbush (Victor Smith). 1.25" neck width, wonderful build quality, and even better sound. No financial interest, just a satisfied customer.

[David Thompson]

For me having some nerve damage in the left hand it wasnt the width of the neck that was a problem but the thickness from back to fingerboard glueing surface.so with some recomendations from the doctors I built my # 32 with 1 and 3/16 width at the nut and allmost 1 and 1/4 thickness from back of neck to finger board glueing surface. It worked I can play this one all day long at the festivals and not get any of the hand cramps that used to plauge me after just a few tunes on mr gibsons skinny neck.It does take some getting used to but once your used to it the left hand is in a more relaxed position while playing.
David

[Nolan]

I agree with David, the shape or the neck has as much to do with it for me as the width. A lot of times I've grabbed a mandolin with a real baseball bat for a neck and thought it was an extra wide neck only to find out it was the standard width.

[Jim MacDaniel]

I recently picked up a Gypsy Music spruce over maple mandolin, and really love it. I too like wider necks, and Gypsy's standard neck width is 1-1/4". This one feels exceptionally easy to play in my hands; plus, it has a nice complex tone with great projection, and has really good volume. (BTW, if you ever commission a new build from them, they are more than willing to radius the fretboard and/or add fatter frets, if either of those options suit your taste.)

[Jim Rowland]

I mentioned this somewhere a long time ago,but early in my building career,after hearing good things about it,I built a mando featuring a 12" radius neck. No one could get it out of the case,much less get a stretch "G" on it. My friend Jess "Whalefingers" MacSnort would occasionally pluck out Twinkle Twinkle on it,but mainly it was used as a door stop.
Most luthiers avoid making wider necks unless commissioned to do so. Most folk seem to want the standard 1 1/8 or so.
Jim

[kww]

I take it that the 1 5/8" neck on mine is about as wide as they come?

[Jim MacDaniel]

I take it that the 1 5/8" neck on mine is about as wide as they come?
Now that's wide -- was yours a custom build?

[Lee]

Another aspect is the string spacing at the bridge. Look at Radim's mandolin and you'll see the strings remain nearly parallel since the strings are spaced wider at the nut, but not at the bridge.
I like mine a tad wider than "normal" at the nut but no wider than normal up the neck or else my fingers can't cover a double-stop.

[kww]

jimmacd
[in reference to my 1 5/8" nut] Now that's wide -- was yours a custom build?

No, it's on the tricordia (linked in my signature). I think they made it wide to accommodate the additional four strings. If I was going to do it custom, I would pack the trios a hair tighter, reduce the width between the courses a bit, and keep it at 1 3/8" or 1 1/2". Maybe the G string would need to be kept wide, but the A and E string could pack a lot tighter, and the instrument would be easier to play.

And, if anyone feels the need to ask, I can't cleanly double-stop. Maybe someone else could, but I can't. I tend to mute the outer strings, and use only four strings out of the six when I try.