View Full Version : Some more Resonator Mandolin stuff
Here's a session clip (http://www.celticmusic.com/sound_clips/resomando.mp3) from the same Richmond, London session MandoNoob posted some clips from the other week. Listen for me falling clean off the tune about a minute in heh! That's me on the reso mando starting off things:
Colerane Jig / Fair Jennie's / Lark in the Morning / The Irish Washerwoman
Dan sounds great! What kind of Resophonic is that and what kind of strings are on it? I like what I hear! Do you think some time you could tab/notate out-say a tune like Lark in the Morning that has those exact right hands moves that you are using? I would be very appreciative of any educational information on the techniques that you are using. Are they any different than what you would play on a standard mandolin. It would make a fantastic discussion here, and certainly lots of experts to chime in.
Thanks for sharing your art!
Emily http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
keithd
Feb-01-2004, 4:45pm
Thanks for the clip Dan, it's really fun to eavesdrop on these sessions we've been hearing about here. It certainly makes the world seem a small place. I'm still scheming to bring our little guy to London some summer for a little culture, history, and curry, and hope to hear a session in person someday.
Dan, I'm usually too cautious to buy instruments online, and unplayed, but I'm really taken with your recent reso-mandolin find. Any special advice for shopping this type of instrument versus an all wood mandolin? What are the typical types of problems you've seen with reso-mandolins?
Keith
I got very lucky with my resonator mandolin. It's an old national, with the "Supro" badge (nailed!) on the peghead. Most folks don't know that those are also nationals, so the bidding on eBay was light and I got a crazy good deal on it. The main difference between this and national with the national decal is just the coverplate holes. Mine looks a little more like a colander than the normal ones do.
Pick up the Bob Brozman national book- it has all you need to tell a real one from a fake online.. before I got this one I had a "feauxbro", which is to say a cheap flat-top with a coverplate on it, but not a real resonator. There are a lot of those around, so caveat emptor!
The scale length on mine is about 2 frets longer than a typical mando (so I expect it'll like being tuned down to D, or maybe E..), and I adjusted the string gauge sets accordingly. It's a little piercing on the E string, but it's nice in a noisy session. The bass is huge and sounds wonderful. I think the cone is a 9", the same one as my tenor guitar.. the body on it is large for a mandolin, looks a little more mandola-ish.
I play it just like my wooden mandos.. no different techniques really. I can rest my palm on the "bridge" (really the center of the coverplate) more heavily though, that's kind of nice.. it doesn't mute the tone at all to do that as the bridge is really beneath that hub in the middle of the coverplate.
To find one, well.. I just watched eBay with complex searches programmed into my geek-box and waited about 2 years for the right one to come up to bid on. If you are less patient, I know several dealers that have one or two at the moment, though they'll run anywhere from $1200-2000 or so.. expect to pay more for the shiny ones vs paint ones, but to not really be able to hear the difference.
Patrick Arbuthnot's Mandola was a crusher, I'd actually prefer that to this national.. I think he would take around £1000 for one of those, but you'd have to speak to him to be sure.. you could end up with a very nice custom one from him, his work is fantastic.
I'd suggest getting a large-coned resonator mando if you're in the hunt.. and the wood-bodied ones I've played have a bit less 'edge' to them than this one really.. the Chinese or Korean copies that sell for $300 look nice, but really sound just plain awful. I tried 3 of those at various shops, and each one was set back down almost instantly. It looks right, but when I strummed it.. yech. No tone at all, as if the cone was a piece of paper with the word "resonator cone" written on it!
The old national mandolins almost all have a problem with the neck creeping forward. A neck setup will almost certainly be required, for about $200 or so. Mine, amazingly, is arrow-straight. The nut needs replacing, but it's playable and tunes ok, so I'm in no hurry for that..
They also almost all have at least a subtle rattle, either a loose screw somewhere, or a bit of wear & tear on the cone. I just rolled the dice & got lucky!
Here are my gauges for the national (I'll measure the scale next time I have a ruler & the mando in the same place!):
E: .011 (I might lighten these a little)
A: .014
D: .024
G: .036 (or .038.. haven't tried those yet..)
The other really nice coincidence is that the korean copies have nice fitting foam gigbags. I bought one in London for £30 from the resonator centre. My national tenor is still wedged in a martin case with some shipping foam, a really crummy heavy ill-fitting case. It's next to impossible to find one, even after a solid 2 years of trying & hunting!
keithd
Feb-03-2004, 1:23am
Dan,
Thanks for the info; this helps enormously. I'm still feeling blessed and amazed with my recent Gibson A find, so I'm going to be taking my time looking for a resonator mando. What I need is to clock some time playing some. I confess that I really like the looks of your painted Supro. I'd almost prefer it to something shiny.
By the way, how is the neck typically joined to the body?
Regarding your tenor case; don't the big hard case manufacturers make cases for small-bodied guitars, parlor guitars and the like, that might be a decent fit? I also know a luthier in SF who has a custome case from TLK that was made for a baroque guitar he custom made for someone, but TLK messed up and mis-sized it, so he still has it...though I suppose it's not worth shipping somethong like a case transatlantic.
Thanks again,
Keith
Rigel makes a resonator mandolin. And there's a 1930's Dobro on Ebay right now too.
http://www.guitarhangar.com/guitars/rigelreso.htm
MandoNoob
Feb-03-2004, 9:15am
What Bugs said!
I'm sat there watching him and I still can't see how he makes such a good sound... I find I can play these tunes OK, triplets all over the shop, but the chords just don't come for me. Some tips would be cool Dan!
Lee: I like the look & sound of those Rigels.. there was a sound clip at Folk of the Wood at one point. I think they aren't a regular Rigel production item though, you might snap that one up if you have the chance.
Jim M.
Feb-03-2004, 5:06pm
Hey, the resonator sounds great but what's with the saxophone? Were the fiddlers to drunk to play? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
And does this mean the National tenor guitar is getting left on the stand?
Dan, please don't feed my MAS. It's in recession after been overly satiated. But I'm watching the price of the old Dobro. If it brings good cash maybe I could sell mine and use the money towards the Rigel... See what you've done, buddy!
Stillpicking
Feb-03-2004, 9:04pm
Thought maybe someone might like to have a look at my new resonator its got a great sound and is loud.
Jim: The Sax player is also the Flautist/whistler, and the fiddler is also the banjo player (and a mandolin player).. and the guitarist plays banjo too. Just to complicate matters, 3 of us pass instruments around fairly regularly too.
Stillpicking: I keep seeing those on eBay (Wailing?) and wondering what they are like! How about a review or sound clip? Does the builder use a quarterman cone (looks like it in that photo montage)
MandoNoob
Feb-04-2004, 4:24am
Dan: The Sax player has been known to pick up a mandolin from time to time, and the fiddler is a pretty mean guitarist as well. You should definitely come to the Thursday session too...
MandoNoob: I'll bring my flute..
mandroid
Feb-06-2004, 7:39pm
I tried a rigel for a short while , intonation was off out of 1st position, thinner piece there no offset . and the lower horn seemed to get in the way up the neck. Elderly took it back though , a + on that part.
How was the sound mandroid? My old national has a flat-intonated bridge (ie it's not in tune up the neck!). The usual trick is to take off the coverplate and move the cone a little to adjust the bridge position, but I think that would only correct minor errors...
pickinBob
Feb-08-2004, 11:37pm
Dan
Totally getting a kick off of the sound clip. Great stuff!
pickinBob
Feb-09-2004, 12:20am
Dan
Is this what you are talking about or is this not the real meal deal?
Resonator Mando from England (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3701380096&category=10179)
Another Dobro Resonator Mando (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3702716082&category=10179)
Well I've never played one, but I keep seeing those on ebay .. the seller "mr specious" is (I think) Stuart Wailing..
That dobro looks like a real one. Wood-bodied resos have a different sound- in the unlikely event you bump into 2 in the same place you'll see what I mean. The metal ones are "Thrummier" if that makes sense.
SO far I like the sound of the old nationals best, but I love trying new ones to see if I get swept off my feet http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Patrick Arbuthnot's "Chanticleer" instruments are also great. If I was getting a new one (and not scraping ebay for bargains!) that's what I'd go for.
There's a Rigel reso in the classifieds now
RolandTumble
Feb-11-2004, 1:16am
Slight departure, but in keeping with the topic title....
Question primarily for Dan, but anyone else with experience is welcome to chime in:
I dragged out my wood-bodied reso (Regal?? '30s??) today for the first time in quite a while (I've been doing most of my playing on my Vega flat-top recently), and was really pleased that a technique adjustment that I've made anyway has relieved one of my main frustrations with playing it. I've moved my picking more to "skim" the strings than to "pluck" them, and now I no longer get a click-click-click against the cover plate. I really love the sound, and always have--particularly the near-infinite sustain, by mando-standards, and the fiddle-like way that other strings will ring sympatheticly. Extra volume is just a bonus....
Whew. Right, the question: what sort of stringing is most appropriate for these mandos? Light? Heavy? I'll probably go no more than medium, as I've had to have the neck reset once already (it came to me needing that--but then, it was priced accordingly...). I'm planning on putting Thomastics on it, since I love the set that's on the Vega, but I'll go with something else if the consensus is that that's a horrible choice.
Hmm, I have a reasonable idea for the nationals- I shot an email to Bob Brozeman (he wrote the national book) and a couple of big national collectors to see what the original stock strings were, then I made a few adjustments using a string tension calculator that can be found here:
http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html
Roland I have an oldie too (metal body). And feel the same way lately about improved playing on it. I was curious have you ever tried light weight strings on yours? I would be curious to hear about that. I have always had medium on mine, but after reading about the tenor banjo/with resonator and light strings, I thought it sounds like a good experiment.
I know they recommend light strings for these older instruments.
Emily
Stillpicking
Feb-11-2004, 9:54pm
Roland,
I have a set of Thomastik on my Wailing metal resonator and I really like the sound. I think the only loop set they sell is medium. Two reasons why I like them is that my MK has them on and it sounds good.I also wanted the same smooth feel on both mandolins.
RolandTumble
Feb-12-2004, 11:39am
Thanks folks.
There being no immediate objections, and even some support, I'll be putting Thomastic lights on it. I'll keep you all posted on what I think, though it may be a bit before I get to doing it (I just started back to work, and it'll be a month before I get a full paycheck).
The string gauge calculator looks useful, and I've bookmarked it for futeure reference, but what I was really asking was about appropriateness. I was wondering whether light-gauge strings would drive the resonator with sufficient energy. I s'pose that I should try the experiment myself, comparing lights to mediums--but I can't really afford to buy a "throw-away" set of Thomastiks at this point.
I've seen Brozman's book, though I don't own a copy of it (yet). Saw him play a solo show on various resos, including a mandolin, years ago. Great fun. (No, no, one instrument at a time. Even he's not that talented http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif )
Stillpicking
Feb-12-2004, 1:24pm
Roland,
Glad to help out just keep in mind that the loop end strings from Tomastik only come in medium. They make lights and heavies but as far as I know these only come as ball end.
I think you want a reasonably heavy set on there to drive the cone. I looked at the weights that a 6 or 12 string national would have from the brozeman book and figured out my tenor set from those, also checking with various repairmen & folks knowledgable with resos to verify I wasn't going *too* heavy. The break angle is pretty slight on a resonator, so I think you can get away with a little heavier than you might think. You have to adjust with your style as well, a big heavy string needs a heavy whack from a thickish pick to really drive that cone too I think.
Michael Wolf
Feb-14-2004, 6:02am
Dan, did you have any intonation-problem when you rised up the sting gauge on your reso-tenor? Is it in tune up the neck? On mine I noticed that intonation changed when I replaced the CGDA-strings with the heavier gauges.I felt that the A-string needs a compensation and this can't be done by only moving around the bisquit. I played Kevins set at first and now planing to put on your heavier set.
Cheers
Michael