Bluegrass stomp question [Archive]

Pete Martin

Mar-27-2007, 1:57pm

I transcribed a version of Monroe playing Bluegrass Stomp that I thought was pre Flatt and Scruggs. Bill plays the head then two more chorus of solos in his first break. However, in my pretty extensive collection of Monroe CDs, I am only finding the version from 10/22/49 that seems slower in tempo and has only twice through the head in the beginning by Bill.

Am I nuts for thinking there is an earlier version? If somebody could steer me to this, when it was recorded, what CD it is on, I'd be greatful. I am teaching this to a young guy who really likes Monroe, so I want him to hear the recording I transcribed.

Thanks much!

Pete Martin

Mar-28-2007, 8:22pm

Nobody??? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

allenhopkins

Mar-28-2007, 11:14pm

Per Neil Rosenberg's Bill Monroe and his Blue Grass Boys, An Illustrated Discography, the only time Monroe recorded Blue Grass Stomp was Oct. 22, 1949 for Columbia Records, with Mac Wiseman on guitar, Chubby Wise on fiddle, Rudy Lyle on banjo, and Jack Thompson on bass.

Not that there might not be other radio transcriptions, "live from the Opry" recordings, etc. available, but that appears to be the only studio recording. Rosenberg's book is pretty definitive.

Walter Newton

Mar-29-2007, 8:02am

You can do a search for the song at www.allmusic.com and see a list of albums it appears on, maybe that would be a help?

sgarrity

Mar-29-2007, 9:36am

Check out the Doc and Dawg cd too. They do an awesome version.

Don Grieser

Mar-29-2007, 9:48am

Maybe you transcribed it off the Smithsonian Folkways Live Monroe album. He takes a few solos on that one.

Peter Hackman

Mar-30-2007, 11:30am

It's odd that petimar managed to transcribe the performance without knowing the source. The live version is easily recognized by
a) Don Reno's extremely busy soloing, triplets and , well, stuff
b) Monroe following that solo in a very simplistic fashion, apparently
a reaction to Reno's solo.

Pete Martin

Mar-30-2007, 1:03pm

Thanks to all who gave answers, but it isn't any of the above. I usually write down the source on the transcrition page, but didn't in this case. My guess is a student handed me a cassette tape many years ago and said "I want to learn this", so I didn't know where it was from.

Peter, doesn't

a) Don Reno's extremely busy soloing, triplets and , well, stuff

describe ALL Don Reno solos??? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

GTison

Mar-30-2007, 5:32pm

is there an alternate take on the Monroe historic edition?

don richards

Mar-30-2007, 8:18pm

"...describe all Don Reno's stuff.. "...extremely busy soloing, triplets and...." R.I.P Mr. Reno - thank you for the wonderful music....the challange...AND the inspiration. Moose. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

Greg H.

Apr-04-2007, 11:38am

Well, looking around Amazon I see a later live version on 'Off The Record, Vol. 1: Live Recordings, 1956-1969'. That may the same live recording as on the Smithsonian CD, but if not it's worth a look.

Pete Martin

Apr-04-2007, 11:46pm

The "Blue Moon of Kentucky" box set from Bear Family has a number of non issued takes of Stomp. Hope it is one of them. Still haven't found it...

earthsave

Apr-07-2007, 8:11am

Maybe you are thinking of Bluegrass Special? It was recorded in 45 with Stringbean on the banjer and Sally Ann on the accordion.

f5loar

Apr-08-2007, 10:47pm

The first recordings of BS was with Wiseman on guitar,Chubby Wise on Fiddle and Rudy Lyle on banjo on Oct. 22, 1949. There are four vastly different versions of it on the BMofKY Bear box set. He seldom played it live later on but a few tapes do circulate with it on a show.
I've only heard one person today that can get it dead on Monroe version and that would be "F5Joe" from Knoxville. Butch Waller did a nice version on his solo CD. And Donna Stoneman wins the award for most "far out" version. The Dawg's cut with Doc is nice. The original single version of BS is what got Elvis the pelvis to move his legs to the beat thereby getting the recognition as early R&R or Hillbilly Rock.

f5loar

Apr-08-2007, 10:51pm

And "Bluegrass Special" first recorded in Feb of 1945 was the first instrumental Monroe wrote for his new found Lloyd Loar Gibson F5 mandolin. Many more would follow.
The rest we say is history!

Peter Hackman

Apr-08-2007, 11:21pm

Maybe you are thinking of Bluegrass Special? #It was recorded in 45 with Stringbean on the banjer and Sally Ann on the accordion.
Special is in A, Stomp is in D.

Peter Hackman

Apr-09-2007, 10:12am

And "Bluegrass Special" first recorded in Feb of 1945 was the first instrumental Monroe wrote for his new found Lloyd Loar Gibson F5 mandolin. Many more would follow.
The rest we say is history!
My guess it's something he threw together in the studio, a sort of summing up
of his blues language in A. The band recorded 3 songs in A
that day (out of eight songs in one session!), True Life,
Rocky Road, and Special and the first two have a few things in common
with Special.

BG Special was the first number I ever heard with Monroe.

Darryl Wolfe

Apr-09-2007, 2:52pm

I've never seen or heard it before the original late 40's cut

Pete Martin

Apr-14-2007, 3:33pm

It is definitely Bluegrass Stomp, not a different tune. I'll get the "Blue Moon" box set in a couple of days and let everybody know if it is in there. The quest continues ... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

f5loar

Apr-16-2007, 12:13am

We've already said that the Stomp is in the BMofKY box set but the date is 1949 and not during the F&S time. And it's Rudy Lyle on banjo not Don Reno. Now with Scruggs leaving in early 1948 and Reno coming after that and before Rudy Lyle it is possible there are live recordings of the Stomp with Scruggs and Reno as Monroe was known to write an instrumental and perform it live a year or so before he recorded it. I've never heard any.

Peter Hackman

Apr-16-2007, 1:40am

swampstomper

Apr-16-2007, 1:41am

The recording with Reno is much later, it's from a live show where Reno's band must also have been on the bill. We've discussed this before -- Reno's break is just like his "Double Banjo Blues" and then Mon answers by getting low and funky, and ending his chorus with a chop to stop the song before Reno can reply -- at least that's how I hear it.

Pete Martin

Apr-20-2007, 6:23am

Well, it isn't any of the cuts on the Blue Moon Box (great collection, the book is terrific). I DID find the cassette tape I transcribed it from. It sounds like a studio cut, maybe a radio transcription or something like that.

Now I'm even more curious as to the source. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

travers chandler

Apr-26-2007, 4:32pm

Maybe you transcribed it off the Smithsonian Folkways Live Monroe album. He takes a few solos on that one.
This is the most memorable one I think with Reno on banjo...Monroe plays an almost haunting part after Reno's break...This is the version on which i pplay on our live shows...

tiltman

Apr-27-2007, 9:38am

Hey Pete,

I think I learned Bluegrass Stomp from you at a Wintergrass Workshop a couple of years ago?

Does this mean you taught it to me wrong?!?
I'll let you teach it to me again when you learn the song.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Actually, I get compliments when I play that(and I don't get many). Workshops are probably a thankless job and I always wanted to thank you for teaching that.

Kirk

earthsave

Apr-28-2007, 10:25am

Did you ever figure it out?

I found this on the web in regards to Blue Moon of Kentucky 1936-1949 (Audio CD): "In two instances song labeling is inconsistent. Alternate takes are usually labeled as such, but not always (the first appearance of "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" is an alternate take but isn't labeled as one). Instrumental tracks are usually labeled as such, but not always (the originally released version of "Blue Grass Stomp" is not labeled as an instrumental)."