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View Full Version : Do you insure your mando?



DannyB
Mar-21-2007, 5:33am
Just wondering how many insure their mandolin? I know mine is covered when it's at home and if it is in my car but can I get insurance for when it is not? I just bought a Stanley, which for me is an expensive venture and would hate to have it stolen from a festival or show and not have some recourse.

LKN2MYIS
Mar-21-2007, 6:06am
Yep - with Clarion.

Home owners does not give you the true protection you need (in the majority of cases).

My instrument insurance covers accidents, etc., even out of the house or if someone else ie using it. Very happy with them, had them for years. They cover my mandolins and guitars.

I had 1 claim - my National steel bumped a piece of furniture and the engraved Waverly tuner got bent. Had it replaced (both sides, they only come in sets) and had a check for the full amount within 10 days.

No complaints at all.

There are other opinions - do a search here at the Cafe and you'll see a variety of opinions.

jaydee
Mar-21-2007, 6:30am
I insure through Merz-Huber. They're great but they require that you be a member of a musician's professional organization in order to buy insurance. I'm a member of the International Society of Bassists and that allows me to buy coverage for all of my instruments. They're minimum coverage is high, around $30,000 dollars, but the yearly premium is not bad for that amount of protection.

They're a good choice if you have a lot of instruments to insure, or a few expensive ones, and if you don't mind joining up with a musician's organization. That is, if you're not a member of one already. Otherwise there are probably better choices out there.
It sounds like Clarion is a good option too, and maybe more flexible. If you want to check it out, here is the website.
Merz-Huber (http://www.merzhuber.com)

Jeremy

mythicfish
Mar-21-2007, 6:58am
The best insurance for preventing theft at festivals/shows? Keep your mandolin in a mandola case.

Curt

Yuletide
Mar-21-2007, 7:22am
The best insurance for preventing theft at festivals/shows? Keep your mandolin in a mandola case.

Curt
At least you didn't say a banjo case.

I have a musical instrument policy through the same company with which I have homeowner's insurance. Price is reasonable, and it covers home and away, accidental damage, theft, etc. Covers our piano, guitars, banjos, mandos, flutes, clarinets, but only if I remember to add them to the policy as I acquire them.

I always wonder, though, how easy it would be to collect anything if, for example, something happened to my vintage Recording King banjo, since I have no proof of ownership, no proof of value, no model number, and no serial number.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

gnelson651
Mar-21-2007, 9:24am
Wish I could afford a mandolin for what I pay a year in auto and homeowners insurance. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Steven Stone
Mar-21-2007, 9:31am
I use Heritage insurance.

Your homeowner's policy is NOT adequate regardless of what anyone says.

It's for fires and earthquakes, not petty theft.

If you do put in a claim, and get paid, your insurance company will either raise your rates or cancel your insurance. That's what they do when you stick your hand in their cookie jar.

Heritage covers damage from shipping, and damage that effects resale value such as someone throwing gin on your varnish finish during a jam. try to get your homeowner's to cover THAT.

Keith Erickson
Mar-21-2007, 9:46am
We use State Farm and we are happy with our coverage.

Now even though neither of my guitars or my mandolins are approaching $30K, we still needed to add a rider to that policy covering those instruments. #I might be pushing $1,500 dollars total value. #Not a show stopper!!!

To even go a step further, I have a firearms collection with some decent curio & relics approaching 100 years old. #I even have a rare shotgun converted from a rifle which was dictated in the Treaty of Versailles and still, based on that, my insurance company didn't raise my rates.

LKN2MYIS
Mar-21-2007, 11:27am
My perspective is not so much the rates as the coverage.

Clarion insures my instruments whether they are in my home or not, whether they are in my possession or not, etc. That's really important to me. The policy covers everything imaginable with the exception of humidity issues.

My homeowners policy didn't cover nearly as many situations as Clarion.

Like they say, insurance isn't important until you need it.

Yuletide
Mar-21-2007, 1:16pm
My homeowners policy didn't cover nearly as many situations as Clarion.
Your homeowner's policy probably has a fairly high deductable too.

jaydee
Mar-21-2007, 3:04pm
Clarion insures my instruments whether they are in my home or not, whether they are in my possession or not, etc. #That's really important to me. #The policy covers everything imaginable with the exception of humidity issues.
Same here, except I do get protection against weather cracks. As long as I am not negligent my instruments are protected. Since 9-11 I've even had some coverage against terrorism. That was required, not by choice, and it cost nothing extra.

If you decide to buy insurance be prepared to get appraisals for any instruments you want to get covered, and take some good pictures. Both will probably be required. Bills of sale are okay, but an appraisal will generally indicate a higher value than sale price.

It's been said in this thread before, but it bears repeating. Renter's or homeowner's insurance may not be enough if you need the policy. The insurance company may not be sympathetic when it comes to taking a damaged instrument to the right repair man for the job; versus the guy they think is the best (read :cheapest) choice. They may not be willing to recognize the difference between a cheap instrument and a nice one, etc..

I can hear it now...

"Our research, performed at three large musc stores near our offices, indicates that the maximum replacement cost for a mandolin is $400. And since our experts had never even heard of your manufacturer's name, we'll give you $350 to get a new mandolin."

Bottom line: if you love the instrument don't be cavalier about protecting it and do the right thing for it.

Jeremy

ronlane3
Mar-21-2007, 3:59pm
Yes, I have a separate rider from my home insurance to cover my instruments.

mandroid
Mar-21-2007, 6:03pm
Anyone have any claims against the policy , How did that go? policy actually compensate for losses?

gnelson651
Mar-21-2007, 7:37pm
I use Heritage insurance.

Your homeowner's policy is NOT adequate regardless of what anyone says.

It's for fires and earthquakes, not petty theft.

If you do put in a claim, and get paid, your insurance company will either raise your rates or cancel your insurance. That's what they do when you stick your hand in their cookie jar.

Heritage covers damage from shipping, and damage that effects resale value such as someone throwing gin on your varnish finish during a jam. try to get your homeowner's to cover THAT.
Sorry Steven, your wrong on this one. I was an Homeowners insurance adjuster for 15 years and here is what a full comprehensive #policy covers.

Personal property is covered on a named peril (loss) basis and usually includes the following 16 named perils: fire or lightening, windstorm or hail, explosion, riot or civil commotion,aircraft, vehicles, smoke, vandalism or maliciouus mischief, theft, falling objects, weight of ice, snow or sleet, accidentaly discharge or overlfow of water, sudden and accidental tearing apart, cracking, burning or bulging, freezing, sudden and accidental damage from an artifically generated electrical current and volcanic eruption.

Flood and earthquake are not covered by a homeowners policy as well as a list of exclusions in the policy.

Business property has a limit of liability, usually $200 so if you use your mandolin professionally, this limit applies.

It is the insured's (you, the buyer) responsibility to read your policy (which is a contract and most people do not read it). If you find out by surprise that coverage does not apply, then you didn't read your policy

I suggest you call your agent to find out if you can get a rider or scheduled property put on your homeowners policy. A rider is an all risk policy meaning it covers just about any loss except for indirect, maintenance perils or long term damage such as deterioration, mechanical breakdown. A rider is especially important if you use your mandolin for business, i.s. play in a band or get compensation for playing.

You can get a scheduled property rider without a deductible, but will cost more in premiums.

BTW: Rates are not raised for individual homeowners for making a claim. If and when the insurance company can justify a rate increase to the state insurance commission, rates are raised for everyone. The only exception is if you have too many losses, the insurance company can raise your deductible.

JeffD
Mar-21-2007, 11:06pm
It seems to me the real difference between a homeowners policy and the musical instrument policies offered by such folks as Clarion and Heritage is that the latter understand the issues unique to musical instruments -

If stolen do you get replacement value versus vintage instrument value -

If damaged do you get repair costs as well as recovery for the loss in value -

Can you decide whether to repair or replace, and if you replace can you keep the damaged instrument and repair it on your own -

Do you have control over who does the repairs?

I don't know, as I just started looking into this, but it seems that the chances of your homeowners insurance really differentiating between your mandolin and your living room rug is slim.

LKN2MYIS
Mar-22-2007, 6:42am
I spoke about a Clarion claim earlier in this thread, and couldn't have been happier with their response.

I understand about homeowner's because I had went that route only a few years ago. Perhaps 15 years ago things were different, however there is no way that a homeowner's rider offers the same protection as an agency that specializes in instruments. I had lengthy, specific conversations with my homeowner's agency as well as with Clarion. The differences, simply, are night and day. Homeowner's covers much fewer issues and re-imburses at a rate that will not leave you feeling compensated.

You can have a choice of policies with instrument insurance. On what I chose, I pay approx. 230 per year for up to 25,000 worth of instruments. The one claim I had (mentioned in above post) was covered fully, and it would have cost more than my premium.

Insured against anything and everything (except humidity - they explain that you should keep instruments as humidity controlled as possible, which I agree). No deductable. I choose who does the repairs, pay for it, submit the bill, and in my one claim had a turnaround time of 9 days. Couldn't have been happier.

groveland
Mar-22-2007, 6:55am
The last time I had an instrument stolen it was 1985 in Chicago, a '57 reissue strat stolen from the back seat of my locked car after a gig as I stepped into a shop to grab a cup of coffee to go - my standard homeowners insurance was with Allstate and fully aware of the circumstances, they covered it no questions asked.

I have no collectibles, but after the discussion above, I think perhaps it's time to review my coverage - certainly the rules have changed in 22 years.

8ch(pl)
Mar-22-2007, 8:22am
Recently my car was broken into. My Mid Missouri was not in it and nothing important was stolen. The other night I was talking about this at a gig and commented how bad I would feel if I lost my mandolin. I have such an attachment to it, even though it is not a high price or antique instrument.

Part of this is that there are probably only a half dozen of them in the province, (I know of 2 others) so finding a replacement would entail the internet shopping route. I also have a Weber tailpiece and Cumberland Acoustic Armrest, both worthwhile upgrades to me.

What I am getting at is that the replacement would not bring the years of fine memories and many complements to the sound that I am producing on this mandolin. I don't have it insured, it is only worth $400 tops.

Steven Stone
Mar-22-2007, 9:44am
[I was an Homeowners insurance adjuster for 15 years and here is what a full comprehensive #policy covers...]

Emphasize WAS please.

Times have changed. Insurance companies are not as "nice" as they used to be. Also what they cover principally has and always will be "the big hit" not the small nibble - most instrument claims are the latter.

Also:

[Business property has a limit of liability, usually $200 so if you use your mandolin professionally, this limit applies.]

This professional usage loophole is often used to deny claims or give just $200. Ever play out? Chances are you will qualify as a pro.

Also homeowner's policies don't cover shipping loss (even partial damage), loss of value due to cracks, drops, repairs, damage done while on stage or in a jam, etc. All of these situations are covered by a dedicated instrument policy.

While I certainly encourage folks to at least put instruments under their homeowners, because it is slightly better than nothing, homeowner's policies offer paltry coverage compared to dedicated musical instrument policies.

If you have over $10K in instruments (easy to do nowadays) a dedicated policy offers much better coverage than any rider for short money IMHO. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

farmerjones
Mar-22-2007, 10:04am
i too have purchased a seperate policy for my many instruments. Relatively inexpensive. But as mentioned the fine line is the pro/am. situation. Fortunately my insurance guy plays in the same jams, so he knows how cheap we work. But if there's any grey area this would be it. Know your policy.

fj

JimD
Mar-22-2007, 10:21am
I have auto, renters, health, dental, instrument and a separate policy for a sheet music collection.

They are basically bleeding me dry and I have NEVER had a satisfactory resolution of a claim. The health policy works reasonably well but the premiums went up so much two years ago that we had to scale way back on our coverage just to be able to continue to afford it.

Once I calculated how many months I worked just to pay insurance. It is too depressing to go into.

It will soon be illegal ot to have health insurance in Massachusetts -- our former Governor basically gave a huge gift to the insurance industry without doing anything to adequateky contain costs.

Pardon my rant.

John Flynn
Mar-22-2007, 10:22am
Times have changed. Insurance companies are not as "nice" as they used to be. Also what they cover principally has and always will be "the big hit" not the small nibble - most instrument claims are the latter.
I have USAA and they are still "every bit as nice as they used to be." They cover pretty much everything and they settle quickly, with great customer service. I have checked and all my instruments are covered for just about everything instrument loss I could incur, both at home and away from home.

I was also in the insurance industry for a while and my formula is:

1. Determine what really needs to be insured. A lot of people overlook this. Don't insure something that you could afford to replace out of pocket. Keep deductibles in mind. Also, don't insure anything you would not replace at all if it were lost. I have multiple beaters and they are not worth any special insurance. I could probably even absorb the loss of one of my good instruments, but not all.

2. Determine what is already covered, or could be easily covered, by policies you already have.

3. Determine the most cost-effective options for the coverage you need. "Effective" is just as important as "cost" here. One problem in the industry now is that heavy discounters are starting to capture a lot of the market and thier claims service is often poor.

Mike Buesseler
Mar-22-2007, 10:23am
Interesting thread....I just shipped a couple of instruments. I went through one of those "Ship-It" places. I know these folks, and let them pick the best shipper. They told me that NONE of the shipping companies (maybe the US Post Office, not sure) cover damage incurred during shipping. Hard to believe, but these people are in the process of contracting a third-party insurance company for this purpose.

They said the companies will cover loss or theft, but not damage. I was sort of stunned by this news, but they said homeowner's insurance normally covers it. I do not know if it's true.

One of the instruments had a declared value of $2K. They said, technically, in order to insure that amount the shipping company requires a wooden shipping crate--which would have probably at least quadrupled my shipping costs....

Come to think of it, that last requirement suggests that they DO actually cover damage, IF the instrument is packed according to their requirements.

I guess there is not much solid information in this post--I need to do some homework, like talking to my homeowners' insurance co. and maybe get the specifics from my shippers, too. But, it might be worth a lot of us checking this out....

Greg H.
Mar-22-2007, 11:31am
I have a policy through The Travelers that covers any instruments either home or away (so if I'm playing in a bar and a drunk falls on my mandolin it's fully covered). I had to get all instruments appraised, and in most cases the appraisal is for more than the instrument would cost to replace (except for my '62 D-18, got the policy about 5 years ago and prices have gone up so I need to have it re-appraised)

For $20,000 of insurance I pay about $140 a year. Well worth it!!!

BlueMountain
Mar-22-2007, 6:40pm
I've looked at Clarion, but taking the instruments to a place capable of doing decent appraisals is a pain, and what with having MAS, I might keep the company busy keeping track of what I have and don't have. But I should do it.

Lane Pryce
Mar-22-2007, 8:31pm
There is a rider in my home owners that covers my instruments at home as well as away from the house, including theft from a vehicle as well. Lp

G. Fisher
Mar-22-2007, 9:22pm
I have Heritage also and have had no problems with claims. They settle quickly and you are given true replacement value. By that I mean if you have a mandolin you paid $10,000 for and now thay are $20,000 you are covered for what it cost to replace it not just what you paid for it.

I know someone that had a claim through their home owners policy for a vintage Martin. The insurance company bought him a 2005 model and sent it to him and called it even. However, the vintage model was worth 4 times more than a new one.

LKN2MYIS
Mar-23-2007, 12:46am
I've looked at Clarion, but taking the instruments to a place capable of doing decent appraisals is a pain, and what with having MAS, I might keep the company busy keeping track of what I have and don't have. But I should do it.
Not the only way to do it.

With Clarion, I took digital photos of all my instruments, got copies of the receipts OR printed out copies of what they sell for from the maker's sights (or eBay), and sent them to Clarion. Close-ups of the serial numbers, etc.

Everything was accepted, no problem. I didn't have to take any of my instruments in.

I once stopped by their office (they're local to me). There was a cello that a child prodigy had sat down on and shattered. They covered the replacement value fully. They also had a Martin D28 there that had a broken neck from having a car door slammed on it. Covered fully. Thus the value of good insurance.



True replacement value is priceless for quality instruments.

DannyB
Mar-23-2007, 5:24am
I did know about the pro/amateur thing. The main reason for asking is my dad had some guns stolen, I know not quite the same but no mater how much his guns were worth the max pay out for them was $1,000.00 if it were'nt for the nra he would have lost out. I'm not quite sure what his coverage was but he usually keeps good insurance. Also I used to play out alot and in talking to some friends they had left their instruments at a club over night, which was quite common when playing a 6 nighter, and the club burned down. Being the gentlemen they were the clubs insurance didn't cover the real value of the instruments and neither did the policy they had. So long story short they lost out on replacement of their instruments. I just want to be sure I'm covered correctly. Also I didn't realize until now how much cash I have tied up in music..

mythicfish
Mar-23-2007, 5:43am
I just checked the premium at Clarion and did the math ... not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K. So I guess it would be financially unsound to start "giving" it back to them. I couldn't possibly comment on
what anyone else chooses to do.

Curt

LKN2MYIS
Mar-23-2007, 6:51am
Yep - unless you needed it.

jaydee
Mar-23-2007, 7:44am
I've looked at Clarion, but taking the instruments to a place capable of doing decent appraisals is a pain,
Many shops will give you an appraisal based on a few photographs. Mandolin Brothers, Elderly and Gruhn will all do this. The appraisal will mention that it was done by photo and not in person but it's better than nothing. And definitely better than just a sales receipt.

Jeremy

Steven Stone
Mar-23-2007, 9:35am
[not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K]

Tiny weeny potatoes...

Quite a few of the regular posters here have seen more than one of their instrument's value appreciate more than that in a single year.

Clarion or Heritage would have paid that difference, most homeowner's policies would not.

JimD
Mar-23-2007, 10:04am
[not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K]

Tiny weeny potatoes...

Maybe not--to those of us trying to make a living at music.

I now have health insurance through my Conservatory job. The school pays for mine but I have to cover my wife's -- which decimates my paycheck. By the way, the school's plan involves a "two-tier" plan: employee only #or employee plus family (no plan for employee plus spouse only) -- so basically I am paying for insurance on children that I don't have.

The bottom line is that the first year that I had health insurance coverage -- it cost me more than my health costs for 20 years #while we weren't covered. AND, of course we have a deductible and co-payments etc.

I think what some folks 9the former governor #and legislature of Massachusetts -- for example) don't realize is that the costs of insurance are a hardship to those who are fully or partially self-employed.

Don't get me wrong -- I have health, auto, renters, instrument, and collection (for my small sheet music collection) policies..

The costs are NOT small potatoes.

G. Fisher
Mar-23-2007, 12:18pm
not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K.



That's fine if that $6K will cover the lost or damage of any of your instruments.

mandopete
Mar-23-2007, 12:24pm
Wow, I was just thinking about updating my homeowner's policy. Thanks for the info.

JeffD
Mar-24-2007, 3:37am
I just checked the premium at #Clarion and did the math ... not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K.
That kind of reasoning is not quite realistic.

If you actually put that amount in an account ear marked for nothing else and so have that amount on hand you are theoretically correct. But most folks, myself included, don't do disciplined self insurance. The money gets spent in the way life dictates at the time, and when the instrument is gone or damaged there really isn't a stack of money somehwere to draw on that isn't coming from some other life priority category.

When I add up the money I haven't spent purchasing lottery tickets over my life time, its a small fortune. But believe me, I could not put my hands on that or any other small fortune.

mythicfish
Mar-24-2007, 6:58am
" I just checked the premium at Clarion and did the math ... not paying additional insurance for the last 25+ has netted me over $6K. So I guess it would be financially unsound to start "giving" it back to them. I couldn't possibly comment on what anyone else chooses to do."

This was my original post on the subject. Some folks seem to think that unless you put the savings into a designated "fund" ... like Google or your mattress ... that the savings are illusory. Not so. Money not spent
in one area still represents assets that can be employed in other areas.
" Tiny weeny potatoes..."?
For SOME folks.

"That's fine if that $6K will cover the lost or damage of any of your instruments. "

Exactly. A couple of instruments is all I need. Not being owned by ones possesssions is a true blessing.

To reiterate: I couldn't possibly comment on what anyone else chooses to do.

Curt