Lmi slotted f-board

[markishandsome]

I got a pre-slotted fingerboard from LMI and the darn things at least 1/4'' thick. That seems like a bit much to me. I assume they send them out with the extra meat so you could radius them, but I'm don't swing that way and am wondering how to trim the fat off this thing without screwing up the slots. Would running it over a jointer a few times take care of it? I'm worried about the whole thing snapping at a slot or the slots somehow chipping as it runs over the machinery.

[sunburst]

If your jointer is sharp and well set up for hard wood, if the grain in the 'board is straight and you can read the run out and run it the correct direction, if you have or make a pusher that holds the whole 'board down firmly on the infeed and outfeed tables, and if you mill the back side of the 'board rather than the slotted side, you can probably use the jointer to thin the 'board.

If you have access to a thickness sander, that's safer for the 'board and for you.

[brunello97]

Mark,

I was loath to run one of these fingerboards through my jointer even with a jig of some kind.

I rigged up a shooting board on which I glued a cut-open sanding belt. I made a simple little adjustable carriage onto which I can fasten the fingerboard with double-stick tape. It allows me to adjust the depth or to taper the fingerboard. ~Ten minutes sanding does the job. (Plenty of ebony dust for sundry duty.) It is no thing of beauty (or any engineering marvel) but I can post a picture if you're interested.

We've just had two bad finger injuries in the studio of late, so I am being extra extra cautious.

Mick

[billhay4]

I have had the same experience with their fingerboards. In addition, the sides are not parallel which makes finding a center line and then cutting the board down to size a pain.
I've had great success taking the thickness down with a drum sanding planer. Great tool. I use one at a friend's shop and we rarely use the planer any more. Makes thicknessing sides a dream.
Bill

[Mario Proulx]

Sounds like you don't have a thickness sander, but if you have a drill press or a drum sander of any kind, make up a fence for it, and use that to thin the board.

[buddyellis]

I'd go with or a hand plane, a thickness sander, or heavy hand sanding with a block, personally (probably about in that order). That plane has to be very, very sharp though.

[billhay4]

It just occurred to me there may be another option here.
If the fret slots are the correct depth, you can take the extra material off the unslotted side. If they are too deep, however, you are stuck having to deal with the slotted side.
I forget how the ones I've used were.
Bill

[markishandsome]

The slots are just fine, there's just extra wood behind them. I'll call my buddy two towns over and see if i can use his thickness sander.

[Paul Hostetter]

I think a thickness sander is really the ticket. Or a Safe-T-Planer in the drill press, chased by less sanding.

Finding that centerline is a piece of cake if you have the right tool, known as a C-Thru 18in Graph ruler divided into 16ths (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?classId=1715&subclassID=171510&brandname=&item=42096).

http://www.utrechtart.com/images/products/42096.jpg

The ruler is already about the size of a guitar board, and as you can sort of see, has a prominent centerline.

You lay the thing over your slotted board until the lateral lines on the ruler align with the fret slots (this is why 1/16ths are better than 1/8ths), and then you know the centerline on the ruler is at right angles to them. Then you mark the ends of the centerline for your board and you can take it from there, laying out your edges measured from the centerline. You get these items at art supply stores.

[Antlurz]

1/4" is their standard thickness, however they offer a sanding service and will sand the board to the thickness you want before they ship it. Might keep that in mind for next time. Even with the extra charge, they are still very reasonable as I see it...

Ron

[Paul Hostetter]

Agreed.

[Desert Rose]

The reason they are thick is because they are junk if they are to thin and they assume a builder is a builder and knows how to... well... build

Scott

[markishandsome]

I wouldn't call a fingerboard that wasn't way too thick "junk". I'd call it "the right thickness". What bugs me more than the inconvenience is the waste. Ebony is a rare and valuable item, as far as wood goes, and about half of this fingerboard blank is going to end up as dust.

[billhay4]

Thanks for the tool tip, Paul. I'll look for one of those.
Bill

[Bill Snyder]

Ebony is a rare and valuable item, as far as wood goes, and about half of this fingerboard blank is going to end up as dust.
Half? How thin do you plan on making it? If it is 1/4" now half that thickness is only 1/8". That would be a bit thin.

[Paul Hostetter]

How about 3/16" then?

Seriously, I just measured a couple of old A models and their boards are barely under 1/4" thick. You need some real wood under the fret slots, and you need the slots to be a bit deeper than the fret tangs. Take what you can off the bottom and then adjust the top.

[sunburst]

There are lots of old Mastertones (yes, those are b&jos) with rosewood fingerboards in the range of 1/8" thick.

While a thick ebony 'board can stiffen a neck a little, it also makes it heavier. A stiff, hard maple mandolin neck can benefit more from less weight than from extra thickness, so I think 1/4" is a little on the thick side. If you need extra stiffness, CF can really help out there, without the added mass of extra ebony.

[markishandsome]

3/16 is what I usually think of as "right". Maybe half was an overstatement, but still, in the volume they do that adds up to a lot of waste. It's not a big deal to me personally, I just wanted suggestions as to how to trim it down.

[sunburst]

Yep. I know what you mean. It's the same reason I've been trying to find ebony veneers. Suppliers 'always' say something like; "well, we can sand down the peghead overlays for you" to which I tend to reply something like "yeah, I can sand them down too. That's a lot of black dust that could have been veneers".

[Paul Hostetter]

I just measured a board off a carved Lyon and Healy - also a real 1/4".

[Desert Rose]

If you people understood that thats the way they have to buy the fingerboards it would make sense

Most fingerboards are purchased rough cut in huge qantities wrapped in burlap usually a hundred per wrapped package, countrys like India Sri Lanka no longer freely allow non processed logs of rosewood and ebony in huge quantities to be exported and specifically fingerbaords are most always pre cut

Any consideration of waste needs to be taken up with the processing yards in Sri Lanka etc NOT Healdsburg!
Also LMI by passing this on is allowing the builder to use the fingerboard as they see fit, thin it a little if you want or how about arched fingerboards, that can need a thicker blank by some builders needs

Again

If you are wanting to be a builder, that dont just talk the talk, thin the darn fingerbgoard to your needs http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

Scott

[markishandsome]

fingerbaords are most always pre cut

I didn't realize that, I assumed they cut them from billets or something. I'm not complaining about it or telling anyone how to do their job, I was just asking how to thin the board without damaging the slots.

I'm not a builder, I never said I was I builder, and I don't want to be a builder. I come here to get adivce from people who are pro builders or just hobbyists like me. I don't know why some people around here are so hostile to the idea of someone wanting to goof around making mandolins for themselves as a hobby. I'm not hurting anyone, so unless you want to help me out by sharing how you would thin a board, please leave me alone.

[Walt Kuhlman]

Desert,
You are correct, the boards are 'rough milled' and shipped to the USA. A couple reasons they may come in thicker and wider. 1) it reduces loss due to chipping, splitting, etc. during high speed milling, hence a better overall yeild when running thousands of them. 2) having a little extra material, wider and thicker, allows the end user to finish the part the way they desire.
If you spec your thickness to LMI, they will do it.

Walt

[Darryl Wolfe]

Are LMI boards these one that are coming individually cellophone wrapped? (when unslotted and rough). If so, I get the impression that they are coming into the country in this wrapped and close, but rough form.

[Paul Hostetter]

<span style='color:purple'>markishandsome: I got a pre-slotted fingerboard from LMI and the darn things at least 1/4'' thick. That seems like a bit much to me.</span>

But it's not. I've mentioned it twice and no one seems to have noticed. Most of the boards I'm seeing, on carved mandolins anyway, were obviously lightly dressed from being 1/4" from the beginning.

<span style='color:purple'>markishandsome: I'll call my buddy two towns over and see if i can use his thickness sander.</span>

So? Did you do it? That's the safest way to thickness the board, although if the extra matter can be taken from the top (because the frets slots are deep enough), I usually glue the board to the mandolin and finish the board in place with a sanding block. This is pretty easy on a small instrument like mandolin, though not so practical on a guitar.

[Jim Hilburn]

Mark, (I'm assuming your Mark) you are dead right. This site should be a place a hobbiest can ask whatever questions they might have without being demeaned for it. It wasn't that long ago that it was me asking those questions.
LMI and Stew-Mac and others offer products for hobbiests who otherwise would make it themselves so it's a totally appropriate question as to why a product you buy isn't ready to use. Like their trussrods, I assume the fingerboards are from stock intended for guitar. A Safty-Planer would be one way for you to trim it down.
Unfortunately, when you build an instrument, at least 25-30% of everything you use ends up as scrap. I hate looking at some of the great stuff I have laying around with no place I can use it.

[markishandsome]

So? Did you do it?

I've discovered that the local art school wood shop has a honkin thickness sander and open hours on Saturdays. I've never managed to have a nice vintage mandolin in one hand while simultaneously having a ruler in the other, so my impressions of "proper" fretboard thickness are based mostly on instruments I've owned, which isn't very many. The last mandolin I made had an LMI 1/4" board and I always thought it looked klunky and made the neck feel heavy, so i thought this time round I'd be a little more proactive.

[Bill Snyder]

The reason they are thick is because they are junk if they are to thin and they assume a builder is a builder and knows how to... well... build

and

Again

If you are wanting to be a builder, that dont just talk the talk, thin the darn fingerbgoard to your needs
Scott
Why the harsh tone? I noticed you jumping on someone in another thread about some of their questions. Basically you told them to do their homework before coming to this forum with their questions. I agree that searching past threads here can often answer questions that have previously been addressed and I frequently point someone to a previous thread or web site. I am however under the impression that this forum is to share knowledge amongst both professional builders that choose to participate and the less knowledgeable (such as myself) with an interest in building.
After all, without those of us lacking in knowledge where would this forum be since we ask the questions? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Desert Rose]

Bill

Sorry dont mean to be harsh at all really

But to lambast an industry supplier for offering a product that fits the broadest market seems a little wierd

As I said if its to thin then there is an argument but offering a fingerboard thicker so that those wanting to arch it or use it thick and those not wanting it thick can simply... thin it seems strange

Scott

[Rob Grant]

Glue a piece of sandpaper to a bit of plate glass and take the "meat" off the back of the board 'til you have what you want.

A better gear for fingerboards is our local Cooktown Ironwood. Also called "Red Ebony" by some exporters. It ain't black, but it is beautiful and tough. It's also not endangered or over-harvested. There is a photo of the timber on my website.

Roberto

[markishandsome]

Got er done at the art shop today. It's funny, they're all furniture makers in there and they always have totally different ways of doing things than I usually read about here or in luthier books. They've never heard of hot pipe bending and think I'm crazy for not vacuum pressing laminated veneers for the sides. They do know an awful lot about joinery though...

[Rick Turner]

paul, you know where at least one thickness sander is...

[Yonkle]

It's good to start with a thick board if you are going to radius it, then it's 3/16th or so when you are done.