PDA

View Full Version : Dawgology



Pages : 1 [2]

Peter Hackman
Apr-05-2007, 4:32am
Yeah, it's more like latinjazzgrass to me!

...and I'm with Grisman on the term "New Acoustic Music" - that's vacant. #Just about as bad "World Music" - ugh!
It's such a beautiful anti-label, presumably invented on the spot
to please a critic, and get rid of him.
Saying nothing says it all.
A-wop-bop-a-loo-bop-a-lop-bap-boom.

humblemex
Apr-06-2007, 3:37pm
#The DGQ were hip & happnin' with this lineup.....my personal
favorite, this band really found the groove. Tony was happy with the changes, Mike was jazzed learning tunes like a sponge....
Darol was dialing in his intonation, and finding his mature voice....and also forging a musical bond/ friendship with Mike, they even
lived just a few houses apart & were always pickin together. Todd was very comfortable holding down the bottom.....and
Dawggy was like a man on a mission....what a cool band
Indeed, that was a great band but it was also the shortest-lived lineup of the DGQ (with one very brief exception). I don't even have a recording of them except for the two tunes on the DGQ-20 compilation. I know they only played the Music Hall a few times, the last time on March 29, 1979. Twenty-two years later they reunited for a one-shot DGQ reunion at Wintergrass.

1979 was also a volatile year, and it was only in hindsight that I realized how fragile the DGQ was in those days. In January, Tony recorded "Acoustics," his first venture into the all-instrumental realm. In contrast to Grisman's painstaking recording approach, the entire album was completed in just four days without a single overdub. Of course it helped that the musicians were Tony Rice, Richard Greene, Sam Bush, Mike Marshall, David Grisman, and Todd Phillips. I got to hang around for most of the sessions, and they were a sight to behold. Neither Sam or Richard had even seen the chord charts until the day they showed up to record, and the order of solos were determined right before they rolled tape. Richard sight-read the head to "Old Gray Coat," "Four On Six," and "Gasology." He would play it like it was written and then throw in his own thing. The level of pure musicianship in the room was overwhelming. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I realized that it was only a matter of time until Tony decided to do his own thing.

L-R: Richard Greene, Sam Bush, Todd Phillips, Tony Rice.
Sam was wearing what he called his Peter Frampton look. I've only seen him shaven a couple of times in the nearly 30 years I've known him.

AlanN
Apr-06-2007, 3:47pm
Awesome.

Lefty&French
Apr-06-2007, 4:20pm
Passionnant! Encore... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

humblemex
Apr-06-2007, 4:27pm
Sammy Frampton

humblemex
Apr-06-2007, 4:28pm
Tee

humblemex
Apr-06-2007, 4:29pm
Dawg

humblemex
Apr-06-2007, 4:30pm
Richard

SternART
Apr-06-2007, 7:36pm
I remember adjusting the mic placement for Billy Wolf, engineer for the session, while he set levels....when they were first setting up & going over the tunes. You're right they were winging it, learning the tunes on the spot.....now that is a pro musician, who can get up to speed like that....those guys had great chemistry for that session.....If I'm not mistaken, it was the very first time Richard had played with Sam......and he was totally jazzed by the mando rhythm. Indeed Jon, there was good energy in the room......reminded me of the Manzanita sessions. A LOT of great albums came out of Arch street. I have these memories of driving home from there as the sun came up, after listening to them record all night.....time was suspended when the music was cookin'.....For those not familiar with Arch Street Studios.....it was in the basement of a house in Berkeley, CA right on the North side of the UC Berkeley campus. It had a resident engineer Bob Shumaker, who engineered many sessions, David & Tony also used Billy Wolf quite a bit, he has a great ear..... I tried to be helpful & stay outta the way......and got to be close to the creative process of these incredible albums. I remember Billy Wolf tweaking the machine, an old Ampex 8 track, demagnetizing and aligning the heads, tweaking the board, experimenting with different wires, mics, etc. They really got the most out of that rig & learned how to use it, in fact David bought the board & tape machines when Arch Street closed.....and they got recycled for the birth of Acoustic Disc.

Spruce
Apr-06-2007, 10:14pm
KM84 on the Dawg, KM86 on Tony, and an SM69 stereo mic on the fiddle...
Neumanns all...

hedding
Apr-06-2007, 10:21pm
man that picture of the dawg is priceless, looks like he's in a far off place...that's very happy

Scotti Adams
Apr-07-2007, 8:11am
What can you guys tell me about the Mar West sessions? That was a cool record.....thanks for the pics and stories...and most of all the memories..

Peter Hackman
Apr-07-2007, 8:25am
I suppose those "four days" of recording include mixing, otherwise
it's not that remarkable (ECM records typically take 3 days,
and in vinyl days it was not unusual for jazz musicians to record
all their stuff in one day). Not that it matters, really, the result must speak
for itself.

Lefty&French
Apr-07-2007, 8:40am
Not that it matters, really, the result must speak
for itself.
As you said! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

humblemex
Apr-10-2007, 10:09am
Reconstructing history from my negative logs and proof sheets is something of an adventure that sometimes severely challenges the brain cells. My first record of the DGQ performing in 1979 doesn't appear to be a DGQ gig at all. Arthur, you're going to have to help me out on this one. It was on Feb 9 at the Music Hall. I distinctly remember the performance but my proof sheets tell a strange story. The order of performance is Dawg and Vassar as a duet, followed by a local SF band called Back in the Saddle featuring Vassar and Richard Somers (who wrote "Ricochet"), followed by the DGQ with Vassar and Todd on P-Bass, and ending with Vassar and Back in the Saddle. Because of what else is on the proof sheets, I am certain this was the order of performance. What I really remember, though, is a trio with Mike on mandocello, Darol on cello, and Vassar flatpicking the cello. Wish I could remember the name of that tune and what that gig was all about.

humblemex
Apr-10-2007, 10:10am
Mike, Darol, Vassar

mandopete
Apr-10-2007, 10:24am
Now all you need is a bowed-mandocello!

Great, great pix Jon!

tango_grass
Apr-10-2007, 10:28am
So thats my next instrument to take up!?!
The Flatpicked Cello!!!

AlanN
Apr-10-2007, 10:34am
Hey, Vassar found the WMD!!

wah
Apr-10-2007, 11:27am
Absolutely mind-blowingly beautiful!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif You really make me wish I had been there.

Wayne

humblemex
Apr-10-2007, 1:48pm
I contacted Mike to see what he remembered about this gig. Here is his reply.

"All I know is that Vassar opened a doorway into a new kind of music making
and true creative madness, and all the rest of us cautiously followed him
there. Of course it was only he who knew all the little nooks and crannies
of this place. Only he who was brave enough to go to all the dark hidden
places where all the 'real' magic lived."


RIP Vasser

tango_grass
Apr-10-2007, 3:28pm
hmm, Vassar, What a musician. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Scotti Adams
Apr-10-2007, 3:36pm
I love Vassar's playing...of particular...his back up on the first Old & In The Way Lp....a true Master if there ever was one.

Lefty&French
Apr-10-2007, 3:47pm
"Clamp"...
I really feel what Mike says about Vassar "music like".

SternART
Apr-10-2007, 3:52pm
Jon......was this gig some kind of a benefit? Does that ring a bell?
I remember the co-bill with Back in the Saddle, but little else.

humblemex
Apr-10-2007, 4:11pm
[quote=SternART,April 10 2007, 16:52]Jon......was this gig some kind of a benefit? #Does that ring a bell?


Don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out. You were supposed to remember. 8>)

SternART
Apr-11-2007, 1:01pm
I went to someone else I know who was there......Richard Somers, known as Monty 37 here on the Cafe. We'll see if he chimes in with any additional information. He was on the bill. BTW that is a vintage photo from the era, and I doubt he is with the same management. In fact that photo was taken at the GAMH, I can tell by the background.

jasona
Apr-11-2007, 3:33pm
That a Monty he's playing?

humblemex
Apr-11-2007, 3:59pm
That a Monty he's playing?
Let me make a wild guess and say it's Monty #37. By the way, Dawg was playing a Monty that evening.

humblemex
Apr-11-2007, 4:27pm
Here's one for Richard in case he shows up to solve our 28-year-old mystery.

arlo_k
Apr-11-2007, 5:24pm
First of all, I will say this thread has had me intrigued. What a wealth of knowledge and history on one of favorites. Thanks to all.

Pardon a fascinated lurker for interrupting, but I saw this link:

DGQ Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCjH_NtgAcw&mode=related&search=)

Pardon if this was posted previously, but this is way to good to not to share.

Can anyone give any details?

Thanks to all my mandobrethren!

humblemex
Apr-11-2007, 5:58pm
Pardon if this was posted previously, but this is way to good to not to share.

Can anyone give any details?
Thanks for the link. Hadn't seen that one. Certainly most appropriate for this thread. It always amazes me what shows up on YouTube. Can't tell you much more about it than that it falls in a window between Sept. 1979 and Jan. 1981, when Mark O'Connor was the guitar player.

Technical question: what's the most likely way that people are digitizing video that was obviously shot on tape or film? And how expensive is the process?

Mike McCoy
Apr-11-2007, 6:27pm
That clip looks like it came from their Austin City Limits show in '80 I believe.

SternART
Apr-11-2007, 7:17pm
Was that the same show with Tiny, Jethro & Johnny Gimble?
As I recall....didn't Wasserman played bass with them as well?

Monte37
Apr-11-2007, 7:38pm
Weell, Holycow Art and Jon..you got the pics up here, and along with my alumni Back in the Saddle. Both pics are at the GAMH, and both a half life younger than now. Playin in the midst of these people is hard to realize after years of seeing where this all went...albeit certainly a pleasure. Thanks Art and Jon! If the GAMH walls could talk...are we all writing a book here?
Yes, that is my one any only Monteleone, and almost new in the pictures. #37, and not too far off from its actual age as well. I appreciate who asked and includes a quote from my friend, and one of our great Mando players, Paul Glasse. I have told him I was young once, and now I can prove it.

All of us who saw this era knows we stand as witness to a part of the history for all of us madoliners. I got lucky to be there, but as I told Art, we recognized what it was and we gravitated to it, and it became this great thing.

Jon, I need to talk to you about some of these pics, and I certainly need some of the hair back that I see in the pictures for sure. Plenty extra to go around. I will see what I can do about ID'ing the cause.

jefflester
Apr-11-2007, 7:40pm
Info about that Austin City Limits (http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/artists/program376.html) episode.

http://www.pbs.org/klru/austin/photos/acl1025558654.jpg

mandopete
Apr-11-2007, 8:58pm
I thought that looked like Mark O'Connor on guitar - great video!

humblemex
Apr-12-2007, 9:09am
All of us who saw this era knows we stand as witness to a part of the history for all of us madoliners. I got lucky to be there, but as I told Art, we recognized what it was and we gravitated to it, and it became this great thing.
Richard,

Tell us about how you came to write "Ricochet" and get it recorded by the Quintet. And what have you been up to for the past 28 years?

Monte37
Apr-12-2007, 11:37pm
How Ricochet got written is something every beginning mandolin player should hear.
It was at the beginning of this movement when I met David at Gryphon Music. I got the nerve to ask for lessons and he said yes. After this first lesson, my "homework" was to write a tune. So I wrote this thing and called it Ricochet cuz it popped around with triplet pull offs. David liked it and added parts. Then Daryl came in and played the high part and it just jelled. It was one great moment, and I was a rank beginner. David added to it, helped me finish it and added a new chord for me, the min7. Daryl made it the 3 part tune it is, and Rudy Cipolla(don't forget Rudy) corrected my music writting by teaching me the pick up note. My music teacher let me write for the mandolin at school, and Tony's guitar part and a good bass line didn't hurt either. More than one event wrote this tune.
So the moral of this story is to recognize an opportunity and take it. Secondly, just because you are a beginner it doesn't mean you don't have something to offer to a tune. Your naivity may well be the reason for originality.

David Grisman was/is a very generous man to me, and always honest, good and bad, to what I was doing musically. He opened his door to me and it still remains open. A good friend and deserving of this moniker DAWG.
The last 28 years Humblemex...long story. But I still play and love the mandolin. Good or bad, I am a mandoliner, and Austin has good mandolin playin brothers and sisters. We have Collings coming on strong, and Tom Ellis's things of beauty. I am doin alright, and the mandolin is in good shape these days. We didn't have a Mandolin Cafe back then. We did have Mandolin World magazine and some of us "here" helped with that. It was our world.
Thanks for asking Jon, or Humblemex. I would like to visit with you and Art and have a sit down. I would like to see about getting some prints you have from the GAMH. That was awesome to see.

Peter Hackman
Apr-13-2007, 7:36am
Dix Bruce wrote a tune named "Dawg's Pause" because he couldn't get your tune right!

"Pick up note"- is that the same thing as "grace note"?

SternART
Apr-13-2007, 1:12pm
Ok.... I researched the Ovation / T. Rice connection. A rep from Ovation came to a DGQ gig in '77 and offered T. a guitar if he'd play & endorse it. His first one was a round hole, plastic back......and he didn't like it that much. So he worked with them and had Ovation build one based on variants of what they were offering on different models, but not a stock design. He got one of those ones with multiple sound holes of various sizes, and asked for it to have X bracing. He played that sparingly for awhile.....this is all before the deal with Santa Cruz guitars, which is an on going relationship.

humblemex
Apr-13-2007, 2:28pm
Ok.... I researched the Ovation / T. Rice connection. # A rep from Ovation came to a DGQ gig in '77 and offered T. a guitar if he'd play & endorse it. His first one was a round hole, plastic back......and he didn't like it that much.
I'm also digging into what tunes he used it on. I've contacted Billy Wolf, who says Tony did use it on other tunes besides "Four On Six" but he couldn't remember which ones. He's says he'll think about it and get back to me.

Spruce
Apr-13-2007, 2:49pm
"Tony did use it on other tunes besides "Four On Six" but he couldn't remember which ones."

Well, one would hope that one would be able to tell the difference between an Ovation and Clarence's D-28 on tape... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

mandopete
Apr-13-2007, 3:48pm
Ahh, you just put a KM84 on it and they all sound the same! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Which recording has the Ovation?

MandoSquirrel
Apr-13-2007, 5:21pm
Dix Bruce wrote a tune named "Dawg's Pause" because he couldn't get your tune right!

"Pick up note"- is that the same thing as "grace note"?
"Pick up note" usually means a note, or series thereof, "borrowed" from the last measure, attached before the first measure, to kick off the melody.

Monte37
Apr-13-2007, 6:36pm
Yes, the pick up note in this case of writing Ricochet is the upbeat note before the beginning down beat. If you don't know what a pick up note is, you are still most likely doing all the time.
Rudy Cippolla corrected my music and taught me this when I couldn't write the melody I was playing fit to score. This working on music would always transpire on the glass counter of his J Street candy and magazine store where he lived with his brother. If you talk about this era, you gotta talk about Rudy. David always made sure Rudy was a fixture of everything he could. A revered person who lived a life as a mandoliner from way back. We should elaborate on Rudy. I know some things, but mostly he was always there, an honored guest and friend to us all. He enjoyed us youngsters playin the mandolin. I think Bob Bruen knows a lot about Rudy. Does he ever chime in to the MC?

SternART
Apr-13-2007, 8:34pm
Bob Bruen left the Bay Area for NM a few years ago......he has the boxes of Rudy's charts, and his ol' Gibson A model.
I don't think he is on the Cafe or Comando, but he shares having experienced Rudy more than probably anyone.
It was always a sight when Rudy was in the audience at a DGQ gig with his group of friends of all ages....David would always
ask him to stand up & take a bow, while the crowd cheered. I have memories of David, Bob & Rudy recording some of Rudy's tunes
in my music room, as well as attending Rudy's gigs over the years. The elder statesman of Bay Area mandolin players, and thanks to
Grisman he recorded his first album at 83! Acoustic Disc put out a tribute to Rudy's music in 1997 when I believe he was 96 years old......
and I'm pretty sure he made it to 100.

humblemex
Apr-13-2007, 10:04pm
Rudy was indeed a rare treasure who David always treated with the most respect; Rudy ate it up. When he was introduced in the audience, he would always raise his arms and soak in the applause. David produced Rudy's first album for Rounder, "The World of Rudy Cipolla" in 1983 when he was 83. In 1997, Acoustic Disc created a wonderful CD called "Rudy Cipolla: Portrait of an American Original," that featured several cuts of Rudy with the Argentine Trio in 1937, excerpts of his playing on the "Capone" soundtrack, and subsequent recordings of his own music with a wide variety of musicians including Evan Marshall, Bob Bruen, Grisman, accordionist Jim Boggio, Mike Marshall, Kaila Flexor, the Modern Mandolin Quartet, Radim Zenkl, and the DGQ.

In a 1980 interview, Dawg talked about his relationship with him:

"I met Rudy through a mutual student, Bob Bruen, who was taking lessons from both of us. I actually took a few lessons with Rudy, and it really helped my sightreading. I'd go over to the Book Nook, and he's just have infinite patience and write things out for me to play. The chords he used in his music very much influenced me. He uses a lot of diminished chords and just has a beautiful sense of melody. He's totally dedicated to writing his own music but didn't even start writing until he was in his mid-40s. He sitting there writing music now."

Rudy didn't quite make it to 100. He died in 2000 at the age of 99, and there was a joyful celebration of his life and music with Dawg, Mike, Radim, Bob Bruen, and 14-piece ensemble performing his music at the Freight and Salvage in Berkeley. For a nice bio, check out http://www.dawgnet.com/acd_html/artists/cipolla.html or better yet, buy the CD with its typically thorough and enlightening booklet that has come to characterize Acoustic Disc releases.

Rudy, July 1988

Peter Hackman
Apr-13-2007, 11:43pm
Dix Bruce wrote a tune named "Dawg's Pause" because he couldn't get your tune right!

"Pick up note"- is that the same thing as #"grace note"?
"Pick up note" usually means #a note, or series thereof, "borrowed" from the last measure, attached before the first measure, to kick off the melody.
Of course, I know what a pick-up to a solo means (usually beginning
almost 2 bars early) but I had never heard "pickup" in the context of
one single note.

Monte37
Apr-14-2007, 11:21am
Yep Peter, an upbeat 1/8th note, or any lead in before the downbeat of a measure. Now don't go confusin me as some musical brain...although I knew written music in very slow terms before, it is only till now that I am delving into getting this better. I can tell a note, but struggle at "hearing what I see" quickly and when put on the spot..like my daughter who can play a chart at first glance. Her ability pushes me to get better to just stay at any keel with her.

RUDY, influenced us all. Our mandolin orchestra in Austin was playing "Julia" and "Parade of the Green Frogs". Rudy taught us orchestration, and I think he liked coming around and seeing Peggy, our singer. He was just a young guy in old man clothes and thick glasses. I see that more and more as I get older. I remember his voice, and how going over written music was like watching a scientist in a lab.

I am glad in being correct in knowing that Bob knew Rudy before all of us. Bob Bruen was with Shunk Cabbage along with Tom Rigney, whom I ended up playing with in BITS.

A radio show I played at at Stanford KZOO was followed by Shunk Cabbage, one of the better local BG bands where David and Vassar were playing with them. This was the very first time I saw and heard David and Vassar...a big moment in my mandolin beginnings.

David, as an archivist, may have recorded more people to keep the history of the mandolin available to us all than anyone I know, and preserving the memory of Rudy was from the heart, as well as what he did for Vassar.
Weell, the storms in Austin is subsiding..think I will go outside.

MandoSquirrel
Apr-14-2007, 11:36am
Of course, I know what a pick-up to a solo means (usually beginning
almost 2 bars early) but I had never heard "pickup" in the context of
one single note.
I thought, from your posts that you should, but since you asked, just trying to help.

Both of those Rudy Cipolla recordings are great, the earlier one was re-released as "Mandolin Maestro". I hope someone will someday release more of Rudy's music.

humblemex
Apr-15-2007, 3:30pm
In the summer of 1978, Guitar Player Magazine publisher Jim Crockett called me into his office to discuss the possibility of starting a new magazine. I had been babbling so much about Grisman and people like Sam Bush, Bela Fleck, Jerry Douglas, and the whole scene that had been opened up by them, he wondered if there would be be any interest in a magazine devoted to acoustic stringed instruments. Of course, I jumped on the idea. At the time I was the staff photographer and a regular writer for Guitar Player and Keyboard magazines, so I was stoked at the possibility of writing about and photographing the best acoustic musicians in the world.

His idea was to follow the same format that had made GP and Keyboard so successful, i.e., covering the best musicians, craftsmen, and technicians in all idioms on issues about music, technique, lutherie, and equipment. Columnists were well-known artists, and all ads were music related. I always thought of them as trade magazines for musicians.

The first issue of Frets debuted at the 1979 NAMM Show in January bearing a March cover date. I was honored to be asked to write the cover story on Doc Watson and a sidebar interview with Merle Watson. Dawg was also featured in a substantial piece, written by my Guitar Player colleague, Dan Forte. The other stories in the issue included a Guild factory tour, Mike Seeger, Martin Carthy, The Art of Pearl Inlay, and coverage of a weekend seminar with Bill Keith. The workshop columnists in that first issue were Dan Crary on flatpicking, Bill Keith on music theory, Happy Traum on fingerpicking, Alan Munde on 5-String banjo, Mike Auldridge on dobro, and Mary Faith Rhodes on dulcimer. By the second issue, Dawg was writing the mandolin column which he continued to do for the entire life of the magazine. Other columns included Stan Jay on collecting, Tom Hosmer on fiddles, and George Gruhn looking back on turn of the century instruments.

Frets lasted for 10 years despite the fact that it never made money. That's why I believe you'll never see anything like it of its quality again. Guitar Player was making a lot of money in those days and Crockett was happy to subsidize the birth of this new magazine. Furthermore, he would not accept anything less than the editorial quality and integrity of GP and Keyboard, so he actually paid good writers and photographers fairly for their work. He also refused to skimp on staff. I firmly believe that if Frets had been born in the current publishing environment controlled by large corporations, it would have been gone after 6 issues max.

Why did it ultimately fail? There were lots of theories but it mostly came down to a lack of advertisers. Outside of a relatively few instrument (mostly guitar) makers, string companies, pickup manufacturers, Homespun Tapes (then strictly audio cassettes), and sound-reinforcement companies, they just weren't there. Part of the reason some didn't advertise was because they were getting so much free coverage in the magazine. I particularly remember George Gruhn howling when the magazine was killed in 1989 yet he never spent a dime on advertising because, as a columnist, he was getting all the recognition he needed. There was a certain logic to that, but magazines cannot survive without advertisers.

Part of the problem, too, was that the coverage was too wide. At least that's what some people thought, and it's probably true. Maybe that's why we now see only specialized magazines like Acoustic Guitar, Mandolin Magazine, Fiddler, and Banjo Newsletter. Even Guitar Player has largely abandoned the editorial policy and become something of an imitation of Guitar World focusing primarily on rock and roll. I just feel incredibly fortunate to have been a part of that era.

For my part, though, I absolutely loved the idea of a magazine that could have cover stories on Doc Watson, Ravi Shankar, Itzak Perlman, Bill Monroe, Carlos Montoya, Pete Seeger, Sam Bush, Julian Bream, Bonnie Raitt, Pinchas Zuckerman, Bela Fleck, Larry Coryell, Albert Lee, Ricky Skaggs, and of course, David Grisman. Ironically, Frets was finally on the verge of breaking into the black under editor Phil Hood when GPI was sold to a large corporation. All the corporation did, of course, was look at the bottom line and Frets was gone. Fortunately, I still have a complete collection, and they still hold up today. There is tons of valuable instructional material that will never be outdated. And because the writing and editing was so good, the articles are a valuable historical archive. As for me, I also have the great memories and photos of the many wonderful musicians I met, interviewed, and photographed over those ten years.

Fortunately, thanks to eBay, it's still possible to find back issues online. I just looked now and nearly 30 issues are offered for sale from $3.00 to $5.00 each. By checking the "completed items" I notice that most of them actually go unsold, so you might even be able to bargain.



Dawg, Jim Hatlo (Editor, Frets), Gator, Dexter, T. , and Pops

jmcgann
Apr-15-2007, 7:50pm
Of course, I know what a pick-up to a solo means (usually beginning
almost 2 bars early) but I had never heard "pickup" in the context of
one single note.

A pickup bar is an incomplete bar before the actual form of the tune starts- it can be any length (in 4/4 time, it can add up to any number of beats less than 4 complete; so a pickup bar can LOOK like a bar of 7/8, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 3/8, 1/4 or 1/8). It is 'understood' that it is outside of the form of the actual piece, and usually is followed by either a double bar line or a repeat sign (facing east!) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

AlanN
Apr-15-2007, 8:13pm
I know that Grisman had a workshop column in FRETS, excellent transcriptions and tunes, such as Jethro tunes, fiddle tunes, even a two-issue chef d'oeuvre of Joy Spring. Is there any way a list could be made of all the columns he did? I have most, but not all of his works, and would love to get my mitts on those I lack.

MandoSquirrel
Apr-16-2007, 6:31pm
Just yesterday I found a few more of my "Frets", including one of the "Joy Spring" issues. I've really enjoyed having Jon sharing his pics & stories, as well as Arthur & everyone; I listened & faithfully read MWN & Frets' but the inside stories bring new life to my formative years as a Mando Maniac.

mandopete
Apr-17-2007, 8:19am
A pickup bar is an incomplete bar before the actual form of the tune starts...
Come on John, we all know what a pickup bar is - I think there's a ton of 'em down in the Combat Zone and they always start with the words, "Come here often ?"

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

humblemex
Apr-20-2007, 1:39pm
The spring and summer of '79 marked a slow down of the DGQ.. The last Music Hall gig of the band with Todd and Tony was at the end of March but according to Mike there was a short tour that followed. There were signs of fracture, and the process was accelerated by a couple of events. Darol and Barbara Higbie were married in late spring and decided to spend a few months studying music in Africa. With Darol gone, David hired a new violinist for a nationwide tour--Stephane Grappelli.

My proof sheets show an Ook 'n' M gig with Mike, Darol, Tony, and Todd on 6/15 but nothing with the DGQ again until August 31 at a Mandolin World News benefit at the Music Hall. The acts were Dix Bruce's band Back Up and Push, the Berkeley Mandolin Ensemble with Rudy Cipolla, Frank Wakefield, and the David Grisman *Quartet* with Mike, Mark O'Connor on guitar and Rob Wasserman on bass. Todd also sat in for a few tunes on mandolin with the Quartet.

As I understand it, Todd was the first to leave and Tony quit abruptly when David told him about the tour with Stephane. In a 1980 FRETS interview Tony answered Mark Hunter's question about why he left the band this way: "It never really came down to my leaving. David had the opportunity to play with Stephane Grappelli, and I refused the gig. Grappelli's music is his, David's is David's. Tunes like "Dawg's Rag,"--to me that's Dawg music. If it didn't have that quality, it wasn't Dawg music, and I wasn't interested in playing it."

That might have been the triggering factor but the truth is that Tony was on his way out by this time anyway. Tony is a obviously a great musician but very rigid in many ways, which sometimes caused a conflict. As Mike once told me, he's a hammer with amazing tone but when he plays he is so concerned with timing and tone that he will not sacrifice either for imagination and adventure. Darol and Mike are the exact opposites of that approach. Besides, Tony had clearly begun to form his own idea of what Dawg music, or whatever you want to call it, should be and was ready to start his own band.

The summer music program at the Music Hall wasn't a complete loss, though. Among those who played there were Norman and Nancy Blake and the last performance I saw from the "almost original" Newgrass Revival with Sam, John Cowan, Curtis Burch, and Courtney Johnson.

humblemex
Apr-20-2007, 1:43pm
Rudy, Rob, Dawg
Mandolin World News Benefit

Spruce
Apr-20-2007, 1:54pm
Those old GAMH pics really hammered home some memories from those 70's DGQ gigs...

I saw the Stones early on, Miles at Monterrey, and the Who on one particularly memorable evening in '67, but the DGQ GAMH halls gigs (especially the ones with Todd on mando) were some of the most potent live performances I've ever heard in any genre.

And I don't think I've heard anything that has knocked me out quite as much since...

Lefty&French
Apr-20-2007, 3:44pm
(...) Besides, Tony had clearly begun to form his own idea of idea of what Dawg music, or whatever you want to call it, should be and was ready to start his own band.
(Three days whithout new posts... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif )

I Thought he called his music "Spacegrass"?

Scotti Adams
Apr-20-2007, 4:11pm
..yep.."Spacegrass" it was...

SternART
Apr-20-2007, 4:40pm
Yeaaaahhhhhh!

mandopete
Apr-20-2007, 6:02pm
Spacegrass - Not 'jazzy" enough for jazz and not "grassy" enough for bluegrass.

Am I the only one who thinks that the time would be ripe for Tony to take another shot at spacegrass?

tango_grass
Apr-20-2007, 6:31pm
Spacegrass - Not 'jazzy" enough for jazz and not "grassy" enough for bluegrass.

Am I the only one who thinks that the time would be ripe for Tony to take another shot at spacegrass?
No, you are not the only one, I second that motion!!!

SternART
Apr-20-2007, 6:56pm
I think Ook' n' M should make a record!!! Tony, Todd, Mike & Darol. Now, that would be HOT!

Those Mandolin World News benefits were fun......was there just one, or two of those? Wasn't there one with
Jethro? He played without a strap, which I recall vividly for some reason. I remember a huge benefit for Sam Bush
when he was ill......I wonder if I'm confusing that as a MWN benefit.

And then awhile later when Tony got flooded out, there was a benefit for him too. I bought like
20 tickets for that one & gave them away to friends. That was when he had to leave everything behind
including his old guitar, that was later found floating within the house.

humblemex
Apr-20-2007, 8:41pm
I think Ook' n' M should make a record!!! # Tony, Todd, Mike & Darol. #Now, that would be HOT!

Those Mandolin World News benefits were fun......was there just one, or two of those? #Wasn't there one with
Jethro? He played without a strap, which I recall vividly for some reason. I remember a huge benefit for Sam Bush
when he was ill......I wonder if I'm confusing that as a MWN benefit. #

And then awhile later when Tony got flooded out, there was a benefit for him too.
Yes, there were two MWN benefits, a separate benefit for Sam, and one for Tony. I'll get to all of them as I follow the rough chronological order I've established.

Arthur, didn't you say there were some live recordings of 'ook 'n 'um? Those shows were likely Tony's most adventursome outings ever.

Jim Hilburn
Apr-20-2007, 9:47pm
I lived on the Colorado front range throughout these times, but they always showed up here on their tours.
In '74-5 the Great American Music Band played in Denver although I can't quite remember the venue. I remember Taj and David and I think David Nicturn unless I'm confusing him with a Maria Muldaur show but I think that was Amos Garrett.
Then in '78 the original line-up played Tulagi's on the hill in Boulder. I remember Nugget showing up with cases in hand and got in ahead of the doors opening.
Then the grouping with Mark and Stephan played the Rainbow in Denver in '79.

SternART
Apr-21-2007, 11:35am
I don't have any Ook' n' M recordings for back in the day......but I'm pretty sure they played a more recent gig, maybe 7 years ago
somewhere in the SouthEast. Maybe someone taped that one......I think it might have been an experimental gig, to see if they should make a record.

I think T. got pretty out there soloing with the DGQ.....I remember one time asking him if he liked his solo he had just played on 16-16, as they came off stage.....his reply was something like.....yeah, I got pretty out there, wish I knew what I played I might try it again. From my perspective, I certainly never thought he was playing it safe or lacking "in the moment" creativity.

Spruce
Apr-21-2007, 11:37am
"In '74-5 the Great American Music Band played in Denver although I can't quite remember the venue"

Ebbetts Field 05/07/74....

Here (http://db.etree.org/lookup_show.php?shows_key=87703) ya go....

humblemex
Apr-21-2007, 12:27pm
I think T. got pretty out there soloing with the DGQ.....I remember one time asking him if he liked his solo he had just played on 16-16, as they came off stage.....his reply was something like.....yeah, I got pretty out there, wish I knew what I played I might try it again. From my perspective, I certainly never thought he was playing it safe or lacking "in the moment" creativity.
I didn't either really but both Mike and David mentioned Tony's generally conservative approach to me. Guess the standards and perspective are different when you're playing in the big leagues.

Jim Hilburn
Apr-21-2007, 1:57pm
For some reason I thought it was somewhere other than Ebbett's but obviously not.
I saw Bromberg there and Emmylou with the original Hot Band another time. The place was tiny and when we saw Doc and Merle we were about 2 feet away from them.

jefflester
Apr-21-2007, 8:22pm
I don't have any Ook' n' M recordings for back in the day......but I'm pretty sure they played a more recent gig, maybe 7 years ago
somewhere in the SouthEast. #Maybe someone taped that one......I think it might have been an experimental gig, to see if they should make a record.
They played a couple shows in Nov '99 at the Acoustic Stage in Hickory NC. And there was a SBD of the 11-6-99 show on Bluegrassbox (RIP).

There are torrents of aud recordings of both shows, but they are old torrents (over a year old) and currently have no seeders (click "download" link):
http://db.etree.org/bs_d.php?year=1999&artist_key=2690

Peter Hackman
Apr-22-2007, 12:05pm
Spacegrass - Not 'jazzy" enough for jazz and not "grassy" enough for bluegrass.

Am I the only one who thinks that the time would be ripe for Tony to take another shot at spacegrass?
As long as he calls it something else.

humblemex
Apr-22-2007, 1:23pm
Ook 'N' M
June 15, 1979
Other Cafe, San Francisco

SternART
Apr-29-2007, 9:32pm
Just back from Santa Fe.....was expecting this thread would have continued.
How 'bout that hair on young Gator......or that hair on Todd? I think that
might be me in the hat.

MandoSquirrel
Apr-29-2007, 9:32pm
Oh for '70's hair again!

jefflester
May-02-2007, 9:33pm
I don't have any Ook' n' M recordings for back in the day......but I'm pretty sure they played a more recent gig, maybe 7 years ago
somewhere in the SouthEast. #Maybe someone taped that one......I think it might have been an experimental gig, to see if they should make a record.
They played a couple shows in Nov '99 at the Acoustic Stage in Hickory NC. And there was a SBD of the 11-6-99 show on Bluegrassbox (RIP).

There are torrents of aud recordings of both shows, but they are old torrents (over a year old) and currently have no seeders (click "download" link):
http://db.etree.org/bs_d.php?year=1999&artist_key=2690

Here's a pic from the 11-5-99 show.
From this site (http://www.bluegrassingalax.com/gallery10.html)

Peter Hackman
May-03-2007, 12:08am
As I understand it, Todd was the first to leave and Tony quit abruptly when David told him about the tour with Stephane. In a 1980 FRETS interview Tony answered Mark Hunter's question about why he left the band this way: "It never really came down to my leaving. David had the opportunity to play with Stephane Grappelli, and I refused the gig. Grappelli's music is his, David's is David's. Tunes like "Dawg's Rag,"--to me that's Dawg music. If it didn't have that quality, it wasn't Dawg music, and I wasn't interested in playing it."

That might have been the triggering factor but the truth is that Tony was on his way out by this time anyway. Tony is a obviously a great musician but very rigid in many ways, which sometimes caused a conflict. As Mike once told me, he's a hammer with amazing tone but when he plays he is so concerned with timing and tone that he will not sacrifice either for imagination and adventure. Darol and Mike are the exact opposites of that approach. Besides, Tony had clearly begun to form his own idea of what Dawg music, or whatever you want to call it, should be and was ready to start his own band.
"Rigid" is a very strong word for an attitude that I find very natural.
If you have a thing of your own going, why not stay with it
and develop it further? Frankly, Grisman's work with Grapelli
isn't nearly as convincing as, e.g., his work with Asmussen
(who is/was - he's 91 - just as much a showman and entertainer
as a jazz musician) and his later latin-oriented thing.

mandopete
May-16-2007, 5:24pm
I miss this thread.

SternART
May-16-2007, 6:14pm
Hang on for the next chapter......Jon is just catching his breath.

T W Perez
May-16-2007, 6:52pm
Yes I am loving this thread.Even though not there personally many of us can look back at our formative years through this thread.From the first time Tony dropped my jaw as a youngster in 74, then getting turned on to the Dawg music as a result.The first band I played in had a set list like EMD,dawgs rag,manzanita etc.at festivals we were known as "those hippies"and really paid some dues getting accepted.Everything was learned off of vinyl,hours and hours,yes these guys are my heros still,thanks for the thread and look forward to more.

Romkey
May-18-2007, 10:58am
The new Fretboard Journal features an article on the David Grisman Quintet.

humblemex
May-18-2007, 11:06pm
The Grappelli/Grisman tour opened on Wednesday, Sept. 5, 1979 with a three-night run at the Great American Music Hall. Stephane arrived the weekend before to play a Sunday gig at the Paul Masson Winery in Saratoga with pianist George Shearing and bassist Brian Torff. Rehearsals began the following day.

As you might imagine, the Music Hall was completely sold out for all three dates. The quartet with Dawg, Mark, Mike, and Rob Wasserman essentially functioned as Stephane's band playing his repertoire although they did do a couple of David's tunes. I don't have a tape of those gigs so I couldn't tell you which ones. I do remember, however, that the band sounded remarkably cohesive despite the fact that Mark, who had just turned 18, arrived only five days before the gig from a two-week tour of Japan with Dan Crary and learned the changes for two dozen jazz standards in that time. Stephane loved his playing. At one point in the show, Mike took over on guitar and Mark and Stephane burned the house down with a scorching version of "Tiger Rag."

I met Mark in May, 1978, when he was recording Markology, his first solo guitar album. Though he was only 16 at the time, the album was the fifth produced under his name and featured performances with Tony, Dan Crary, and Dawg. By the time he was 14, he had won four National Junior Fiddle Championships, a Grand Masters Fiddle Championship, and the Winfield National Guitar Flatpicking Championship. When he repeated his Winfield win in 1977, the rules were changed to keep two-time winners from competing again for five years. In 1980, he became the first repeat winner in the history of the Grand Masters Fiddling Championship. That same year, following a three-year winning streak in the Open division of the Weiser National Old-Time Fiddle Championship, the rules were again changed because of Mark to force winners to sit out a year following their win.

To top it off, in 1982 he entered Buck White's World Championship Mandolin Contest in Kerrville, Texas. He didn't even own a mandolin at the time he signed up, and by his own admission he had never practiced one except for "about a month to prepare for the contest." On the way to Texas, he made a side trip to Chicago and took a lesson from Jethro to expand his repertoire. Of course he won, playing Dave Appolon's "Russian Rag," Dawg's "Cedar Hill," Darol's "Ride the Wild Turkey" and a jazz medley of "It's a Rainy Day," "After You've Gone," and "All the Things You Are." His prize was a Luke Thompson mandolin.

But Mark was always more than just a contest player. In a 1981 interview, Dawg called him the most imaginative, versatile, and adventurous guitar player he'd ever worked with. "He doesn't have any stylistic boundaries, and you can't really say he's a direct descendent of anybody. In tunes where the length of the solo is left up to the guitar player, Tony would make it as short as possible. Mark is the other way. I finally had to tell him he was playing too long sometimes. I tried to explain it by telling him to pretend he was climbing a mountain, and when he gets to the top of the mountain, that's it. He said, 'But then I see another mountain to climb.' I couldn't argue with him. He's got his own thing, and that's the most you can say about any musician."

At the end of the tour, Grisman asked him to be the Quintet's guitarist, and a new era began. Still, Mark was clearly no match for Tony Rice's powerful rhythm (who is?), and it would take some time before a balance was re-established.

humblemex
May-18-2007, 11:10pm
On Friday, Sept. 7, the band gathered at KQED-TV studios, the San Francisco PBS station, to tape an appearance on "Over Easy," a local show hosted by Hugh Downs.

Treblemaker
May-19-2007, 12:50am
WOW - what a thread. Not sure how I missed this wonderful noise ongoing for the past 3 months! Jon and Arthur have just cause me to put down my mandolin for a solid hour to read the 14 pages of of captivating first hand history!

For me the Dawg, his music, the work of his followers, the whole kit and caboodle has the immediacy of bluegrass, the never gets old quality of the Beatles catalog and the intriguing rococo delicacy of chamber music. There is always something new to discover. And while my wife may not share my obsession and while decrying each new purchase and download, this is a difficult habit to kick...

At the same time I remain fairly daunted by the depth and breadth of the Dawg's ever-expanding repertoire, the technical virtuosity the complexity and the futility that comes with attempting to internalize 1/100th of it.

Long live the Dawg and his ilk... and thanks to Acousticdisc.com for the great music.

Digging this heavily...

Treblemaker
www.WorldWideTed.com
www.BrewglassBoys.com
-------------------------------------------------------

BTW:
This gem of a show can be found via bittorrent...
I'm wondering if any Cafe Patrons were there?


MARIN COUNTY BLUEGRASS FESTIVAL
Golden State College
San Rafael, CA
April 27 & 28, 1974

Homestead Act:
04 - I've Been Everywhere
05 - Take Five (Brubeck)
06 - Way Down In Georgia?
07 - Chime Bells
08 - Diggy Liggy Lo
09 - The Foggy Mountain Breakdown

Emmylou Harris:
10 - Jambalaya
11 - Instrumental
Tut Taylor and Norman Blake:
12 - Southern Railroad Blues

Doc & Merle Watson:
13 - Footprints Through The Snow
14 - Man Walking On The Water >
Keep on the Sunny Side
15 - Wabash Cannonball

Unknown act:
16 - Mule's Done Gone Away
17 - Are You Missing Me

Doc & Merle Watson:
18 - Poor Boy Blues
19 - Wabash Cannonball
20 - Salt Creek
21 - Tennessee Stud

Great American String Band:
22 - My Plastic Banana
23 - Dawg's Rag (with Richard Green)
24 - I'll Be The Gambler If You'll Deal The Cards

Disc Two 73:23
Great American String Band:
01 - Sweet Georgia Brown

The Hired Hands:
02 - Bear Tracks
03 - Standin' On The Mountain
04 - Pick Away
05 - Cotton Mill Man //
06 - The River Of Jordan

Great American String Band: 4/27/74
(Jerry Garcia, David Grisman, Richard Green, Taj Mahal, David Nichtern)
07 - Mabeline
08 - Johnny B. Goode

Jim & Jesse McReynolds and The Virginia Boys:
09 - Dueling Banjos
Tut Taylor and Norman Blake:
10 - Instrumental
11 - Instrumental

Mac Wiseman:
12 - The Wreck Of The Old 97
13 - Catfish John
14 - Love Letters In The Sand
15 - Shackles And Chains
16 - Prisoner Song
17 - Jimmy Brown
18 - I Wonder How The Old Folks Are At Home
19 - Man Walking On The Water
20 - Keep On The Sunny Side Of Life

Frank Wakefield with Jerry Garcia:
21 - Jesus Loves His Mandolin Player #1
22 - Heartbreak Hotel
23 - Orange Blossom Special

Doc & Merle Watson:
24 - Doc Bog's Country Blues
25 - Movin' On
26 - Wabash Cannonball
27 - Tennessee Stud

Disc Three 79:50

Ramblin' Jack Elliot:
01 - Talking Fishing Blues
02 - Don't Think Twice, It's Alright
03 - Down The Line
04 - Pretty Boy Floyd

Doug Dillard & Frank Wakefield:
05 - Dixie Breakdown

Nitty Gritty Dirt Band with Garcia & Vassar Clements,
Doc Watson, Dave Nelson, John Hartford & Jerry Mills:

06 - Tulane And Johnny
07 - Cosmic Cowboy
08 - Jambalaya
09 - Sally Goodin
10 - Battle Of New Orleans
11 - Teardrops In My Eyes
12 - Bonie Maronie
13 - Randy Lynn Rag
14 - Flint Hill Special
15 - Mr. Bojangles
16 - Honky Tonkin'
17 - Diggy Liggy Lo
18 - Will The Circle Be Unbroken
19 - Way Downtown Fooling Around
20 - Down Yonder

Disc Four 19:31

Old And In The Way: 4/28/74
01 - High Lonesome Sound (brief tape munch)
02 - Pig In A Pen
03 - Panama Red
04 - Wild Horses
05 - The Hobo Song

Cool Stuff!!!

Jan Ellefsen
May-19-2007, 3:27am
Hi Treblemaker
Where can one find that bittorrent?

Spruce
May-19-2007, 9:48am
"I'm wondering if any Cafe Patrons were there?"

I missed that one....

As I remember, no one got paid.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

mandopete
May-19-2007, 10:55am
Ah the thread is back to life, good bump!

SternART
May-19-2007, 11:04am
I missed that one too......at that point I was just beginning my BG journey, and somehow the word that Jerry was gonna be playing didn't filter down to me.
I was one of the original Dead tape fanatics.....if I caught wind of a Garcia appearance, I would have made the scene.

Have I told the story about Stephanne Grappelli pinching my cheek backstage.....and calling me a naughty boy? I'll have to figure out how to word it
to pass the censorship aspects of the Cafe. (and hey....keep you're minds out of the gutter, it's not what you're thinking)

mandolooter
May-19-2007, 11:42am
[QUOTE]. (and hey....keep you're minds out of the gutter, it's not what you're thinking)

who?.....us!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

humblemex
May-19-2007, 12:07pm
This gem of a show can be found via bittorrent...
I'm wondering if any Cafe Patrons were there?
Yep, I was there for most of it. It was my first bluegrass festival, and what a beauty. It was actually called the Golden Gate Bluegrass Festival and was held at the Marin Civic Center. And it actually ran for three days, Apr 26-28. Too bad it was a financial bust because it was 26 years before another one of that magnitude happened in the Bay Area. I didn't realize that no one got paid though. It was put together by the couple who ran Paul's Saloon, the legendary North Beach bluegrass bar in the '60s and '70s. As I understood it, they mortgaged their house to finance the festival and almost lost it as a result of the financial failure.

They had a great vision, though. I'm sure it was the first time that many of the artists had ever played the Bay Area. It was certainly the first time I'd ever seen Ralph Stanley, Jimmy Martin, Jim and Jesse, Mac Wiseman, Norman Blake, Tut Taylor and Vassar Clements. The whole festival was dedicated to Vassar, and he sat in with many of the acts. As I recall, I just showed up and managed to talk my way backstage with my camera and Guitar Player credentials. That was also the first time I saw the Great American String Band though I missed the Old and in the Way show. Not sure why.

I remember how surprised I was to see Ralph Stanley sitting at a table selling his records and trinkets. It was the first time I'd seen anything like that. I've still got the Curly Ray Cline keychain I bought that day. I also recall that was Roy Lee Centers' last gig. The day he got home from the festival he was brutally murdered by a local deputy sheriff.


Backstage Banjo Jam-John McEuen, Steve Martin, Jerry Garcia

Treblemaker
May-19-2007, 12:07pm
Marin County BG Fest - 1974.
Here's the link - but you need to be a member and I can't help ya there:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=146645&hit=1

-Treblemaker

SternART
May-19-2007, 12:57pm
Ok Grappelli story.......remember this was in the old days before there was a ban on smoking in public buildings.
I was backstage......between sets, I was imbibing, smoking, whatever you might want to call it.....standing with
a few musicians & friends....and Stephane comes up, pinches my cheek and calls me a "naughty boy" in his very French
accent. Now at first I was in the gutter too......thinking he was hitting on me.....but it soon became apparent that he
too was interested in joining in......should have been more obvious I'm not THAT cute.....

SternART
May-20-2007, 10:27pm
That photo with Grappelli reminded me of another story.....that is the band that played on the Tonight Show w/ Johnny Carson.
My father is long gone......but back then he knew I was friends with Grisman, never made much mention of it...TILL he played
the Tonight Show. My old man was deep into acts that would like play in Vegas, or be on with Carson. All of a sudden my Dad
wants to meet Grisman.....so next time he visited the Bay Area, he asked me again. I called up David & sheepished asked him
to do me a favor.....could I bring my parents over? They wanted to meet him. Dawg was cool.....said bring 'em over. So after
introductions we're sitting in Grisman's living room & my Dad says.....well aren't you going to play something for us?......I
was thinking geeze how rude.....David took it all in stride, he got out TWO mandolins & we played a coupla duets for my parents.
I was really only a beginner then, but knew my 10 tunes in 9 keys. We played a harmony on Japan (opus 23 in 10 Tunes) and
then Opus 38. I remember playing the chords several times thru, as David soloed away. My parents applauded, and we went off on
our merry way......I'll always remember how generous David was to allow that to happen.....hows that for a good friend!!!

mdlorenz
Mar-24-2008, 7:53am
This thread deserves a bump.

Buddah
Mar-25-2008, 11:26am
This thread does indeed deserve a bump...amazing stuff!! Anybody out there have any "insider" info/stories on the more recent incarnations of the DGQ? How did Dawg come to add Matt Eakle(sp?)? George Marsh? Frank Vignola?

kmiller1610
Mar-25-2008, 6:11pm
Great stuff. I have been gradually working my way backward to see what I missed and this thread just gave me several dozen new doors to open! Thanks!

Kevin Briggs
Mar-25-2008, 6:43pm
couldn't figure out who was the guy
stealing the show from Jerry,....
I don't mean to take away from the thread ... but that was Vassar stealing the show in OAITW.

gonzograss
Mar-26-2008, 12:37am
Good gracious!!! Where have I been? Will have to go back to page 3 and continue this wonderful journey. Just a quick check-in to say THANK YOU. We've needed this for a long time. I've followed DAWG from afar (the Ozarks and West Virginia) through the 70's and all the way to the present.
From the time I traded for my first decent instrument (a 20's F-4) @ Winfield the year Orrin Star won guitar (76 or 77?)I've been captivated, mesmerized, permanently seduced by the music. Some years it was kind of lonely trying to play along w/ the albums (forget finding any people to play it with!) but by 1982-83 I finally got to see/hear my heroes in person @ the Ringling Museum in Sarasota Florida. That was the Gator, Robbie Wasserman, Darol Anger iteration. I still feel the goosebumps. What a magnificent evening in that arabesque setting under the stars and palm fronds. I even have a crude tape recording of it, which is somewhat spoiled by a drunken woman's repeated and strident shouting. But the music was glorious and every time I've seen David over the years I've spent weeks going back over the great tunes that never grow stale. A couple of years ago when I saw him at the Birchmere in Alexandria he was no less inspired and inspiring than in the late 70's. Spent a good 45 minutes chatting w/ Dawg and Matt Eakle - still as accessible as ever. This was before Joe Craven left. Haven't yet caught Vignola in the band but have some of his other stuff and can't wait to hear what his presence is contributing to the evolution of DAWG and his music.
I may have a few photos - have to dig them up. But will be hungrily taking in all this wonderful history. I add my encouragement to that of others who have expressed excitement at the idea of a Book. Wouldn't it be a powerful addition to the history of American music to compile a heavily illustrated coffee table-type volume, along the lines of Michael Dregni's "Django - an Illustrated History of Gypsy Jazz"?
Again, bless you for starting this thread. I wasn't privileged to have lived out there to be close to all this as it began, but I was digging it from where I was.
As a lifelong musician I can't think of another figure who has consistently given me that feeling that one gets from the very best, most passionate and creative music.
Please continue.

Joe Hannabach (Gonzograss) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

grassrootphilosopher
May-21-2008, 8:42am
Yes, there were two MWN benefits, a separate benefit for Sam, and one for Tony. I'll get to all of them as I follow the rough chronological order I've established.

Arthur, didn't you say there were some live recordings of 'ook 'n 'um? Those shows were likely Tony's most adventursome outings ever.
Mr. Sievert,

I think this thread deserves to go on, and with a vengance.

Had my parents taken notice of bluegrass, dawg music and such, I might have seen Clarence White on his European tour with the White Brothers as a second grader, or I might have visited the Grisman appearance at Montreux, France, or...

The first bluegrass festival I was at was at Lake Havasu Az. in the year of 1990. I met Bob Applebaum and Pat Cloud though.

Well it wasnŽt until I about graduated from what we call Gymnasium (advanced secondary education preparing for university) that i found "acousticity" at my cousinŽs house (who by the way along with my uncle, his father, is responsible for giving me the first clue what this music is about by giving me Doc & Merle Watson "Balads From The Deep Gap" as a birthday present). My cousin had (still has) a ton of vinyl records that would make a freak freak out. I listened to some Monk (the album with Monk in a Tom Mix hat and gun belt), Bessie Smith, Clint Howard and Fred Price ("The Ballad Of Finlay Preston") and the Dawg hung in there.

Now, Mr. Sievert, IŽd love to hear about those benefit shows.

Mr. Stern, IŽd very much appreciate your input too.

There must be a bunch of people out there, that have something to tell. So go ahead yŽall.

theBlood
May-21-2008, 10:00am
I saw Grisman in 1967 in SF playing with a group called the Smoky Grass Boys that included a pregnant bass player, who, if memory serves was his girlfriend. My buddies and I taped the show with our sony and traded him later for a tape of Monroe at Bean Blossom. Nobody was there that day, so it was interesting to see him progress.

SternART
May-21-2008, 10:09am
Maybe we can get this bus on the road again.

Monte37
May-21-2008, 6:07pm
I do have to chime in on this...Jon, Art, and myself were standing in the same spots, same time. I think what strikes me the most about this time was how we had to gather to see these events. We met there. We didn't group email. We knew we would see each other at each event. People were hanging off the balcony as we gathered at the Great American Music Hall, Which,I have to take a chance and say that it was the major hub at the time for this music. A great place where the owners were committed to excellence in music. David and cast was never better than at this place...okay, my opinion. But some nights the roof lifted...maybe see you Art and Jon this June!

SternART
May-21-2008, 6:30pm
RT
If you're talking Symposium.......I'll be there!
Arthur

jc2
May-22-2008, 5:54am
In 1979 or 1980, the group appeared on the Today Show with Stephane Grappelli. I had never seen them before, dug out my boom box and got a ###### cassette recording of them burning up "Sweet Georgia Brown" with Stephane at the end shouting "Vive L'America!" I went right out and bought the album.

Spruce
May-22-2008, 10:03am
"David and cast was never better than at this place...okay, my opinion."

Mine too...

The DGQ at the GAMH in the early days with Todd on second mando--with a flock of shockmounted Neumanns spread across the stage in front of them--were some of the finest musical events I've ever seen, in any genre...

And the recordings that came off of those Neumanns--combined with the distinctive acoustics of the GAMH--are some of my favorite recordings ever made....

mandopete
May-22-2008, 2:41pm
I'm whiling away the time listening to The Rounder Album waiting for this thread to fire up again!

Hey, speaking of The Rounder Album, did anyone else notice Alison Krauss' tribute to Dawg and Tony in her version of Sawing On The Strings (one of my all time fav's) on A Hundred Miles Or More? #Nice double mando!

SternART
May-22-2008, 4:36pm
I recall a DGQ gig.......back before anybody had heard of her.... at the GAMH where Alison sat in with them on fiddle.
What I can't recall is if she was part of the opening act? She tore it up on the fiddle, I remember being impressed,
and also recall her asking who I was backstage. My first exposure to Alison.....this was pre-Union Station.

mdlorenz
Sep-16-2008, 8:30am
Must've looked at this thread about 30 times... never gets old.

SternART
Sep-16-2008, 9:49am
It was a very cool time to live in the SF BAy Area and be into new acoustic music!
Grisman's music has been like the sountrack of my life.

Eliot Greenspan
Sep-16-2008, 10:38am
Wow, just discovered this thread. Fabulous and fascinating. Haven't read through it all yet, as some work must be done, but thought I'd quickly add how it affected this east coast teenager.

1977, already a 16-year old Deadhead and taking guitar lessons in burbs of NYC. Guitar teacher turns me on to DGQ and that first album. Nuff' said. Went and saw that line-up at Bottom Line, I think. '78 or '79.

Buy mandolin. Kentucky KM 650. That meatgrinder's hanging on the wall these days.

1979 in college in Boston. Do one battle of the band gigs, w/ hastily formed Red Clay Black Moutain Rambling Boys, or some such name we came up w/. Featuring Hahn Rowe, who went on to work w/ Moby and David Byrne amongst others on fiddle. Some guy in audience says, you sound like Grisman (a ridiculous statement, aided I'm sure by the kegs...). 1980 or 81 buy front row tix for the Grisman/Grappelli show at Berkelee College. Buying tix, the teller says, you might also like to see this band w/ tix also just going on sale that day, and so get second row for Oregon. A band I had never heard of. Also, life changing musical exp. (and suprising to see Towner and McCandless turn up so much in this thread, 1982, actually went and studied guitar w/ Ralph at Naropa. Fabulous, band, fabulous guys).

but back to DGQ, actually, that's pretty much all I got, except for a couple decades of listening to, seeing shows and buying discs. Definitely a musical quantum shift kinda band, that definitely shifted me.

thanks for this thread, the photos, and info. Great stuff.

lenf12
Sep-16-2008, 3:51pm
Great thread, you guys. I got hooked on the sound or OAITW in '74 or so and DGQ in '76 but living on the East Coast, didn't get a chance to hear them live until the tour with Stephane Grapelli in '80 or '81. Very interesting reading!! Does David ever post to this message board?

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

mandocaster
Sep-16-2008, 6:50pm
I miss living in the SF bay area. The music scene was so amazing in the 80's when I was there. I don't miss the cost of living.

I wish there was radio airplay for new acoustic music. Thiele has gotten a little. I think a fair number of people would appreciate it, if they ever heard it.

If anyone knows if there is anything on XM, let me know.

fishdawg40
Sep-17-2008, 10:56am
I have a few questions, maybe Arthur knows. First, what happened with Enrique leaving the band? Second, when is Dawg's acoustic oasis download site gonna be up? I heard him do an interview at the end of last year and he said it would be ready in a couple of months. Just curious.

MONami
Sep-17-2008, 11:06am
sorry no text

mandopete
Sep-18-2008, 2:55pm
I'm sorry too! Whenever I see this thread pop up again I'm always hoping for some new photo's or tidbit.

:crying:

mandolirius
Sep-18-2008, 3:11pm
<Too bad the movie wasn't a BIG hit, so the music would have been heard by more people. There were plans for a soundtrack album, that were scrapped when the movie flopped. I think it was even recorded but never released. A medley of tunes from the movie became a part of the set list in this era. But one thing leads to another and the Grappelli connection was made and Stephanne then recorded a few tunes on the DGQ's next album, Hot Dawg.>

Just looking through this thread and saw this. The soundtrack WAS recorded. Back in the early 80's I knew someone who knew someone who apparently worked at the studio where it was recorded. He had a copy and I made a cassette tape from it. It is really wonderful music. I really have to get that dubbed onto a CD.

SternART
Sep-18-2008, 3:52pm
Fishdawg.......Enrique left to pursue his other interests, and who could complain about his replacement?......Frank Vignola has added a new energy to the band that reminds me of the 70's band. Frank can really groove! If you get a chance to see the DGQ by all means go, it is another great era for live Dawg music! I've only seen them twice with Frank, but the last one, a friend I was with thought it was the best concert she had EVER been to. The Acoustic Oasis is coming along......I'm sure the debut will be announced on the Acoustic Disc site as well as here on the Cafe. Should be FABULOUS!!!

John Kasley
Sep-18-2008, 3:57pm
I saw Grisman in 1967 in SF playing with a group called the Smoky Grass Boys that included a pregnant bass player, who, if memory serves was his girlfriend. My buddies and I taped the show with our sony and traded him later for a tape of Monroe at Bean Blossom. Nobody was there that day, so it was interesting to see him progress.

There's a poster on Rick Shubb's site(of Shubb Capo fame) for the Smokey Grass Boys of that era. Rick played banjo in that group.
http://www.shubb.com/cafe/index.html

mandopete
Sep-18-2008, 4:34pm
Yes, The DGQ with Frank Vignola was in fine form when I saw them several months ago here in Seattle and again at the River City Bluegrass festival. One of the best incarnations of this band to be sure.

Bit off topic, but I'll post it anyways. What's become of the Frank Vignola group - is Josh Pinkham playing with him anymore? I have tried unsucessully to get a copy of his recording "Kong Man" - anyone know where it can be found?

Humblemex where are you man?

mandopete
Sep-18-2008, 4:50pm
Went back an re-read this thread and how I need a Dawg fix.

Here's some video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzSQTPlTfS0&feature=related)

Who is that that walks in and lays on the couch behind Grisman at the beginning?

SternART
Sep-18-2008, 5:10pm
Cool poster! I recall back in the days when I was archivist for David, that there was at least one reel to reel tape of a Smokey Grass Boys gig. But it might not have been that lineup, as I recall it having Bill Keith on banjo. Such a cool name they might have used it a few times for short lived pickup band gigs. ;)

SternART
Sep-18-2008, 5:12pm
Jon (humblemex) is living south of the border enjoying retirement.......

fishdawg40
Sep-18-2008, 9:24pm
Fishdawg.......Enrique left to pursue his other interests, and who could complain about his replacement?......Frank Vignola has added a new energy to the band that reminds me of the 70's band. Frank can really groove! If you get a chance to see the DGQ by all means go, it is another great era for live Dawg music! I've only seen them twice with Frank, but the last one, a friend I was with thought it was the best concert she had EVER been to. The Acoustic Oasis is coming along......I'm sure the debut will be announced on the Acoustic Disc site as well as here on the Cafe. Should be FABULOUS!!!


The replacement is great, I couldn't agree more. I just liked Enrique's Latin roots. He was a super nice guy too. I did see the recent incarnation at Suwannee Springfest. It was unbelievable. Dawg was great as usual. I also saw him at a workshop with Josh Pinkham. These guys were blazing.....

I can't wait for Acoustic Oasis. There should be some real gems there. I'm assuming Acoustic Disc has there $10 a single CD sale because of the switch to digital. I'm saving up my money for the Oasis. :mandosmiley:

Fretbear
Sep-19-2008, 2:05am
I don't know where i got this, but I thought it might interest.....

RSomers
Sep-19-2008, 10:45am
That pic looks like back to the jug band days. I have a CD David gave me of David on Hootenanny with the even dozen jug band...way before I touched a mandolin or guitar. But, it was what made me want to.
I just wanted to add 2 cents in saying the Enrique was a class act guy. Suberb Latin style player and gentleman always. I did see he released his own CD and would only assume he is taking care of his own career. I haven't heard Abe yet, but by Art's reflections and the video it looks like another great fit.
And yes, Art and John are our historians of this string. They documented it all, and fortunately I am in a little of it. We go back a bit.

How many great players have we gotten to learn and know of as a result of working their way through Dawg? There is a string right there.

mandopete
Sep-19-2008, 11:31am
Jon (humblemex) is living south of the border enjoying retirement.......

I think the Internet reaches down to Mexico too!

:)

mandopete
Sep-19-2008, 11:36am
How many great players have we gotten to learn and know of as a result of working their way through Dawg? There is a string right there.

Ain't that the truth! I think my interest in bluegrass and mandolin came through the Dawg. Here's my list of players he got me interested in...

Tony Rice
Todd Phillips
Jerry Douglas
Vassar Clements
Tony Trischka
Ricky Skaggs

(Yes, these were all from the Rounder Album alone)

SternART
Sep-19-2008, 12:33pm
I think the Internet reaches down to Mexico too!

:)


I heard Jon was on the beach opening a cold one.

Actually I heard he was organizing his archives, from MANY years of being the staff photographer, as well as writer for Frets and Guitar Player magazines. He documented much more than the DGQ. His press pass got him into most venues in the Bay Area, and he was an avid concert photographer, as well as all the magazine studio shots. In fact he wrote a book on concert photography.......I have an autographed copy here somewhere. Check out his web site, great, and I mean REALLY great shots of Garcia, Bill Monroe, Joan Baez, Eddie Van Halen, etc.

http://www.humblepress.com/

SternART
Sep-19-2008, 12:35pm
And here Jon documented a Comando pickin' party at my studio, back in 2002:

http://www.humblepress.com/CoMando/index.html

mandopete
Sep-19-2008, 2:01pm
I heard Jon was on the beach opening a cold one.


Wireless perhaps?

Thanks for the link Art - Jon is certainly one of the best to be sure!

musicofanatic
Oct-29-2008, 2:32am
Thanks Jon and Art, for the very cool trip down memory lane. My recollections from the era:
Finding out at five in the afternoon that DGQ (version one) was opening for Leo Keotke in Flagstaff that night, jumping in the car, hauling ### from Phoenix, getting there just in time to see Tony playing some plastic gtr!!. I had the first record for a month or so at that point and just revelled in the live versions. And they played Spain! Wow! Bailed after their show (Leo who?) to find the boys and got to hang out and yak some.
I was on the road in the seventies as the mandoliner in a band out of Tucson called Summerdog Bluegrass Experience, Mariachi & Swing Ensemble (really!), and we commonly found ourselves with off time in the bay area (before or after a gig at Paul's usually). Two amazing shows that I just stumbled upon...
(1) Ran into my old pal Steven Andersen on the street in S.F. who said he was in town for the Guild of American Luthiers convention at the (damn brain cramp-what was the name of the hall next to the Exploratorium?!? Palace/Temple of Fine Arts or something like that?!?!) and he got us in. The O'Connor/Wasserman era DGQ were hanging out all day at the instrument exhibition and then played a show there that evening. It was sort of a "kid in a candy store" affair, with the cream of the crop from the exhibiting luthiers; maybe twenty or so incredible inst on stage that the fellas juggled all through their show. I met some Aussie named Gilchrist there. He had a coupla nice mandolins with him. I shoulda bought one!
(2) Had just seen Tiny Moore, who had befriended my band after a few gigs together through the years, and he mentioned he was part of a show coming up at the GAMH, and would we like to be his guests? Hell, yes!! It was a MWN benefit with (gasp) JETHRO!!! (and, oh, the DGQ and some other mando types were there too, but JETHRO!!!!). Jethro performing solo, doing his Vegas-style lounge act; oh boy, what a treat. Funny as hell between songs as well as during (never heard anyone with that much humor in his playing) wow. Another foggy recollection from that show: Marky and Mikey engaged in some sort of heavy metal duet on K-4's backstage! Those kids!

Can I brag what a true blessing to get to know and jam with (numerous times) Tiny Moore, a true giant amongst mere mortals!! Logged a few hours deconstructing standards with him and Vern Baughman, an amazing Eldon Shamblin devotee.
And further: a shout-out to Richard Somers, who I met and had a nice time chatting with once when Summerdog co-billed with BITS somewhere, sometime in No. Cal. Goodf*ckintimes!!!!!!!!!!!

mandolirius
Oct-29-2008, 3:27am
<It was a MWN benefit with (gasp) JETHRO!!! (and, oh, the DGQ and some other mando types were there too, but JETHRO!!!!). Jethro performing solo, doing his Vegas-style lounge act; oh boy, what a treat. Funny as hell between songs as well as during (never heard anyone with that much humor in his playing) wow.>

Well put! I consider myself very lucky to have seen Jethro perform solo early on in my mandolin-playing life. It taught me how much could be done with this little instrument. It was a horizon-broadening experience. After that, I'd listen to someone like Joe Pass and, instead of just admiring his playing, I'd find myself wondering if I could do some of that on the mandolin

AlanN
Oct-29-2008, 6:38am
Musicofanatic, this one's for you

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12256&stc=1&d=0

SternART
Oct-29-2008, 9:15am
COOL hearing your recollections there Musicofanatic. Yep, Palace of Fine Arts
I'm inquisitive....Where is "out there" that you hail from......and what is your real name?

musicofanatic
Oct-29-2008, 2:28pm
Musicofanatic, this one's for you

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12256&stc=1&d=0

Okay, where'd you get that?!? Is that from a t-shirt or the album cover? That logo cannot appear without proper credit given to it's designer: cartoonist, graphic artist (oh, and he plays some fancy mandolin, too) Tom Rozum. Tommy preceded me in the mandolin chair of this fine Tucson musical institution. Ah, the glorious past!

AlanN
Oct-29-2008, 2:43pm
Yes, hats off to the lovely and talented TAR for the use of this image.

mdlorenz
Mar-05-2009, 3:29pm
About 4 months & no posts... bump :)

AlanN
Mar-05-2009, 4:05pm
I'll add to the bump.

Musicofanatic is/was a great mandoliner. I remember when the pink record DGQ came out, his band was playing a show. During half-time, they piped this record over the PA, and he picked along perfectly with each tune on Side A as it played. That tattooed my brain right there.

mandopete
Mar-06-2009, 10:39am
I remember when the pink record DGQ came out...

Pink record? You mean like pink vinyl?

Hmmm

T Foster
Sep-09-2009, 1:50pm
The woman on guitar was Ellen Kearney. I was also at the Keystone concert and I remember Maria joined them and played fiddle on a tune
Jon, there were a few other GASB gigs with the lineup of:
Great American String Band
* Jerry Garcia - banjo, vocals
* David Grisman - mandolin, vocals
* David Nichtern - guitar, vocals
* Richard Greene - fiddle
* Taj Mahal - bass
* Buell Neidlinger - bass (4-26-1974 to 6-13-1974)
Their set lists looked like this:
Colored Aristocracy, Cedar Hill, I'll Be A Gambler If You Deal The Cards
My Plastic Banana Is Not Stupid, Moonlight Waltz
Swing '42, Methodist Preacher
Set II
Limehouse Blues, Bud's Bounce, Dawg's Bull
Russian Lullaby, Virgin's Lament, Swing '42
Drink Up And Go Home, Dawg's Rag

I know Maria Mauldaur played with them at a few gigs & they opened for the Grateful Dead at least once. There are 4 or 5 tapes floating around. I saw them at the Keystone Berkeley twice, back when Maria had a hit with Midnight at the Oasis, but she wasn't with them all the time. Buell Neidlinger was in there for a few gigs too, on bass. There were a few later gigs at the Great American Music Hall in SF and the band took on the name of the venue, or Great American Music Band. I saw two or three gigs there in 1975. This was without Jerry & Taj, a band fronted by David & Richard & really the precurser of the DGQ. As I recall it was mostly instrumental, with already orchestrated versions of Dawg's Rag & maybe Thailand among others. I was following David whenever I saw a Bay Area gig, everything I heard about after OAITW. Later, when I was archivist for David I know there is a tape of another even earlier version of the band w/o Jerry and Taj with John Carlini and a woman on rhythm guitar, a bass player,and then featuring Richard & David. My tape collection got flooded out about 15 years ago, and I think I still have a tape of the earlier band.....I'll try & ask David about it. Richard left in 1975 to work with Loggins and Messina. The earliest gigs of the David Grisman Quintet, were pre Bill Amatneek and had Joe Carroll on bass. The first official gig was in Bolinas, CA in 1976, which I bootleged an audience tape of with a Nakamici cassette player. Joe was at that gig & did a tour of Japan with the band. If I'm not mistaken Bill Keith & Richard Greene were on that tour, and there were 2 sets, a bluegrass set with Richard & Bill..then a DGQ set. I was taping live shows by then, with David's permission using a Revox 1/2 track, with separate mics on each stand. This is around when Bill Amatneek came on board as bass player, which was pretty early. I continued to tape the local shows for several years in the early days of Dawg Music, and mix many of the gigs from the board. Todd Phillips built and repaired mandolins in the back of my art studio, and with Darol also living in Oakland, my studio became a place where the band would hang. I would drive Todd & Darol to gigs in my Citroen convertible, with the Revox in the trunk. In about a year there was a change in the lineup, Amatneek was out & Todd Phillips took over the bass spot with young Mike Marshall joining as 2nd mandolin. Mike's on Hot Dawg, playing some parts for David, then suffering from tendinitis. This was the transition to one of my favorite versions of the DGQ.

T Foster
Sep-09-2009, 1:53pm
The woman on guitar was Ellen Kearney. I was also at the Keystone concert and I remember Maria joined them and played fiddle on a tune

I was at the DGQ'a 2nd concert in Berkeley. I wasin one of Dawg's mandolin classes with Todd Phillips. This was the first time he met Todd. Todd gave me a ride to the bus station after the class

T Foster
Sep-09-2009, 1:58pm
I thought, from your posts that you should, but since you asked, just trying to help.

Both of those Rudy Cipolla recordings are great, the earlier one was re-released as "Mandolin Maestro". I hope someone will someday release more of Rudy's music.

David referred me for Classical mandolin lessons when i was a student at UC-Berkeley in the 1970's. He was a beautifull sould who owned a candy store in S.F He was a wonderful human being

jim simpson
Sep-09-2009, 9:34pm
What a great photo of Dawg playing a bowlback mandolin. I remember seeing a friends bluegrass band at some dive and the mandolin player was playing a bowlback. I remember my first DGQ concert. I thought that would be it since I was on the east coast at the time. Then I got to see him again with DGQ in Bethlehem, PA at Musicfest - wow! Just as good. Then he came to Glenside, PA with Doc Watson - again, just great music! Then he came to Phila. with Old and In The Gray - wow again! Loved hearing Peter again with Dawg plus Herb Pedersen, Bryn Bright, and (R.I.P) Vassar Clements. I thought that I couldn't top that then Dawg comes to Sellersville, PA with the Bluegrass Experience. I've enjoyed each and everytime I've heard Dawg (plus he's always been gracious and approachable).

T Foster
Sep-10-2009, 9:10am
Kudos to Humble mex for starting this website. When I moved to the West Coast to attend UC-Berkeley. Andy Statman, my teacher in Bklyn, referred me to David. I was in one of his mandolin classes with Todd Phillips. In fact, it was at this classthat they first met. Todd gave me a lift to the bus stationi S. F. after the class. I believe I saw the 2nd concert eevr of the original DGQ in Berkeley. They played w/o any amplification in this small venue. I actuall y had alesson at Dawg's house in Mill Valley, days after he had been giving private lessons to Mr Dylan

Capt. E
Sep-10-2009, 9:30am
Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Dawg was the heir apparent to BM until he began branching away from Bill's strict bluegrass doctrine. Who is now considered BM's heir now, Ricky Skaggs perhaps? Perhaps it takes more than one person.

Spruce
Sep-10-2009, 11:14am
I believe I saw the 2nd concert eevr of the original DGQ in Berkeley. They played w/o any amplification in this small venue.

Yep.
Great night...

The tune I remember the most was John Coltrane's "Lonnie's Lament"...

T Foster
Sep-10-2009, 3:13pm
A book, I agree! #DAWG music is so important and it sounds like you folks may have enough material and pictures possibly for a book.

Speaking of great stories, I love the one that David tells about meeting Todd Phillips. #He said that Todd approached him with a deal to trade mandolin bridges that Todd made for mandolin lessons.

Grisman summed it up with, "pretty soon I didn't need any more mandolin bridges and Todd didn't need any more lessons."

Great stuff.

And to add to the story I was in the same mandolin class as Todd in Sausalito. I have the class taped and the moment Todd showed David his Mandolin Bridges, and David being suitably impressed by Todd's work. After the class Todd drove me to the bus station in S.F.

SternART
Sep-10-2009, 4:29pm
Still wondering who musicofanatic is.........and now T Foster.
Do I know either of you from the ol' days?
Arthur

John Soper
Jun-25-2010, 3:59pm
Bump - sitting on the deck of a beach cottage in NC... reminded of this wonderful thread from the link provided in the recent Manzanita posting... it has been > 6 months... anymore Dawg Tales?

jim simpson
Jun-25-2010, 8:39pm
I've posted this shot before but not in this thread. It's from my first of many Dawg performances. Long live the Dawg!

SternART
Jul-02-2010, 10:03am
I just noticed the bump.....hey Jon Sievert is in the Bay Area & will be visiting my studio in Benicia, CA tomorrow for the Will Patton / John Bird jam-party. July 3rd Noon - 6.

If anyone needs directions.......PM me.

RSomers
Jul-02-2010, 11:58pm
Arthur,
Don't need directions, just a car that gets me there and back. Can't believe this string is still alive.
All the best from 1,725 miles away...say hey to Dan.

SternART
Jul-03-2010, 9:48am
We'll pick a Dawg tune for ya Richard....but I'm still workin' on Richochet......slacker that I am.
So many tunes to learn.......so little time, with trying to earn a living these days.

Psyberbilly
Nov-22-2010, 3:24pm
The Quintet performed regularly throughout 1977 but began to slow down as 1978 got underway. Lots of things were happening. In January, Tony went into the studio at 1750 Arch to start recording "Manzanita" with Sam Bush, Ricky Skaggs, Jerry Douglas, and Dawg. Around the same time, Grisman accepted a commission from Dino De Laurentiis to write the score for "King of the Gypsies," a big budget film starring Sterling Hayden, Shelley Winters, Susan Sarandon, Brooke Shields, Judd Hirsch, Annette O'Toole and Eric Roberts. When De Laurentiis asked David who would like to hire to execute the score, he told him Stephane Grappelli. I believe Tony and Diz Disley were featured on guitar. Shortly thereafter, David also began work on "Hot Dawg," the second DGQ album.

The film faded pretty quickly after release, though it was not a stinko by any means. Roberts even drew a Golden Globe nomination for Best Motion Picture Male Acting Debut. The score was terrific, and both Stephane and David appeared in the film as musicians. Famed San Francisco producer David Rubinson told me he thought it was the best film score since "The Third Man," a classic film noire starring Joseph Cotton and Orson Welles made in 1949. High praise indeed. A soundtrack recording was planned but scrapped when the film disappeared so quickly. However, at least two of the tunes, "Gypsy Swing" and "The Tipsy Gypsy" made it into the DGQ repertoire for a while. Unfortunately, the film has not been released on DVD but I just ordered a used VHS copy on Amazon. There are still at least 20 available.

In April, Stephane made his annual appearance at the Music Hall with his band, guitarists John Ethridge and Diz Disley, and bassist Brian Torff. David and Tony sat in on several tunes. Dawg's beard was just growing back from having been shaved for the movie. It was a great night, with Tiny Moore and Frank Wakefield showing up backstage to jam and meet Stephane.


L-R: Tony Rice, Stephane Grappelli, David Grisman, Diz Disley. Bassist Brian Torff is hidden. And, no, you are not hallucinating. Tony is playing an Ovation, whom he briefly had an endorsement deal with. Fortunately, free guitars and a couple of bucks were not enough, and he got over it quickly.

I was amazed to learn in Tony's book " Still Inside " that the album " Manzanita " was recorded with that Ovation guitar ! All of these decades listening to those tunes with a mental picture of Tony playing them on The Antique . I shouldn't be surprised , he could
probably pulled tone from a cigar box strung with baling twine ...

JAFO
Nov-29-2012, 9:11pm
Just wanted to give this a bump. I spent hours reading and enjoying this thread and hope there may be some other new folks that would also benefit from it. I met David last summer at Grey Fox when I arranged to bring him and his wife down to Bill Keith's tee pee for some private time. When the statute of limitations runs out I will share the whole story.
Tom

SternART
Nov-30-2012, 2:08pm
Bill Keith was just here in the SF Bay Area as part of a banjo extravaganza at the Freight & Salvage.......with Alan Munde & Bill Evans.
Great backup band too.......had John Reischman on mando, Jim Nunnally on guitar, Chad Manning on violin and Sharon Gilchrist on bass. I hadn't seen Bill Keith since he played with Grisman in the good ol' early DGQ days. He went on that tour of Japan where there was a BG set and a DGQ set.

JAFO
Nov-30-2012, 10:39pm
Yes, Art Bill was out last week and I haven't talked to him since he got back. I missed his regular gig last night. Bill has decided to only do gigs and dates that are fun for him these days and it seems to be working out well and he is quite busy. Unfortunately, when Bill was out by you guys, Jim Kweskin was playing a small club here and had asked Bill to come play with him. That would have been neat, but Bill had to decline because of the west coast gigs. I caught the Kweskin gig and Jim had gotten two other local guys to come fill out the stage. They received no prior billing and nobody knew until they came up on the 'stage'. The two fill-ins were Happy Traum and John Sebastain. Needless to say, it was quite an evening. I'm very sorry Bill missed that.
Tom

johnbaxter
Dec-01-2012, 11:35pm
My exposure to Dawg music was through the Tony Rice album ("Tony Rice"). I had heard Tony's name from a friend but had never heard him play, and came across his album at Tower Records. I was impressed with the opening tune (Banks of the Ohio), but didn't pay much attention to the mando intro by Grisman. I didn't know anything about mandolins, and was more focused on the guitar, the reason I bought the album. But, when the second cut, Rattlesnake, started I was blown away. I had never heard music like that, and was unfamiliar with the mandolin. This led to me searching out Grisman's Quintet album, and because I lived in the Bay Area, I had many opportunities to see the Quintet at the Great American Music Hall. I became a huge New Acoustic Music fan and bought a Kentucky mandolin. The thing that continues to amaze me about Grisman is his composing skill. A lot of attention is on his playing, and rightly so, but it is as a composer that I think he really had an influence on New Acoustic Music.

SternART
Dec-02-2012, 7:47pm
I agree John.......There are a lot of hot pickers who write tunes with lots of notes.........but I don't walk out of the shows humming the tune, like I might after a Grisman show. The Grisman legacy has a foundation in the great body of of music he has written, then add the recorded output, his record label putting out numerous new & old recordings of note.......his skill at being a bandleader and arranger of his compositions for the band.......or how about as a talent scout, just look at the young cats he keeps finding for his band over the years.....and he also happens to be one of the most expressive and talented players to ever play the mandolin.

Adds up to a heck of a special musician.......a very talented fella. :disbelief:

ralph johansson
Dec-03-2012, 3:11am
I was amazed to learn in Tony's book " Still Inside " that the album " Manzanita " was recorded with that Ovation guitar ! All of these decades listening to those tunes with a mental picture of Tony playing them on The Antique . I shouldn't be surprised , he could
probably pulled tone from a cigar box strung with baling twine ...

According to my copy of the book the song Manzanita, not the whole album, was recorded on the Ovation. So what? Ovations and dreads are different. As I remember them from the 70's Ovations were very clinical-sounding, with few overtones and very even response; they also happened to record very well. Rice probably found it suitable for this type of song.

Listen to the album River Suite; it's been a long time since I heard it but as I recall about the 3rd or 4th number I took notice, THAT'S got to be the D28. So I inferred that he was playing a Cruz or Ovation on the first few cuts. Hard to tell, because the sound is pretty soggy on Rice's Rounder records, probably too much reverb. And besides I'm not crazy about the recorded sound of his D28.

"Pull tone" is a cute myth. We like to believe that our heroes are capable of endowing an instrument with properties that simply aren't there. What we perceive as "tone" is usually something else. Let's say we would recognize Rice on a Washburn, by his timing, his phrasing, his dynamics and phraseology, but I don't think he'd be very happy with it.

AlanN
Dec-03-2012, 5:20am
Need to re-read that book, but I thought the LP recorded with the Ovation was Backwaters (all but the opening track Common Ground).

Spruce
Dec-03-2012, 11:08am
Need to re-read that book, but I thought the LP recorded with the Ovation was Backwaters (all but the opening track Common Ground).

I finally played an Ovation the other day that indeed was recordable, and thought of those Tony tales...
So I guess they do exist... ;)

WaveRay
Dec-03-2012, 1:43pm
Cool thread. Thanks, everyone.

ETKearney
Oct-27-2017, 9:47am
As Arthur says, there were several variations of the Great American String Band. Somewhere around here I've got a cassette with seven tunes on it from a gig with Richard Greene, John Carlini, and a woman named Ellen Kearney on rhythm guitar. I remember Arthur and I spent an afternoon listening to tapes of many DGQ gigs and I dubbed a few down to cassette with Dawg's permission.

Good Morning,
I am the "woman named Ellen Kearney" you referred to in this 2006 posting, so I suppose this is a long shot so many years later...A friend was wandering around mando cafe and came across this thread.
I never had any recordings of the band in the configuration you mention, and I'd love to get a digital copy of the recorded 7 tunes you made, if possible. My time with the band was short-lived but oh so interesting. If you need it, you have my permission to contact David Grisman and ask his permission to release it to me. I'd be so appreciative....

MikeEdgerton
Oct-27-2017, 10:01am
Hi Ellen. You might get lucky as this poster's last activity on the Cafe was Aug-09-2017. You could try sending them a Private Message. Hover your mouse over the original posters name and you'll see an option. That will be delivered to the last e-mail address that this person set up on their profile. Good luck.

jefflester
Oct-27-2017, 2:49pm
And Art Stern is very active here and might have those recordings as well.

SternART
Nov-03-2017, 11:01am
Back in the day I was Grisman's archivist & had access to his tapes, they were stored in my studio. I don't have a copy, but David probably does somewhere in his archives.

AlanN
Nov-03-2017, 11:38am
my bad, wrong cat (or should I say dawg, ha)...carry on...

Charlieshafer
Nov-03-2017, 4:39pm
Darol Anger also has a ton of old recordings and photos. I can't say they're from the old Quintet days, but there's a lot of stuff he keeps digging up. This is kind of a fun thread to revive, in it's original spirit. Certainly Mike Marshall, Darol Anger and Edgar Meyer (who isn't a DGQ alumni, but still critical) have continued to influence a huge number of musicians of all ages. When Darol left DGQ and helped found the Turtle Island String Quartet, her was very instrumental in fusing classical into that mix as well.

I wish I could post a short video of Mike and Darol jamming away post-show with a couple of our fiddle club leaders. One is particularly poignant for me, as she was a kid just taking classical lessons as a middle-schooler, and her parents put her in one of our summer bluegrass camps for kids, and she went on to study at Ithaca, and now takes some private lessons from Darol and another Berklee prof, Sara Caswell. These guys do have an effect on many generations, not just the old folks who remember way back when...

Drew Egerton
Mar-04-2022, 2:42pm
I'm not typically a fan of reviving old threads, but this one is such a treasure and may be of interest to other Dawg fans. I stumbled across it at the bottom of a long internet worm hole.
I'll just add that the music of this era is still drawing people in and influencing them 45+ years later. The more I have learned about mandolin and music in general, the more I come to love it.

I have been playing mandolin since 2004 or so, but only became interested in Dawg/New Acoustic within the last 5 years or so. Starting with the more bluegrass-y tunes like Cedar Hill, Dawg's Bull, Emd and then growing into the rest. I have also been lucky enough to study with Mike Marshall via ArtistWorks and have learned a great deal in that time including working on some of these tunes. I had the honor to meet Richard Somers a couple of years ago and he gave me a Dawg pick which I treasure for the connection.
I've also started a LP collection consisting of primarily mandolin content featuring Dawg, Mike, Jethro, etc.

I am also greatly looking forward to my first ever trip to California coming up in two weeks to Benicia for Mike's mandolin retreat. I will have to stop by the GAHM to see the place where so much of this amazing music was made. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread over the years! Quick edit to add that I just found the thread of Arthur Stern's passing, sad to hear after reading all his amazing contributions here.

mandolin breeze
Mar-08-2022, 8:42am
I'm not typically a fan of reviving old threads, but this one is such a treasure and may be of interest to other Dawg fans.

Greatest thread in the history of threads . . . it can never end!

Que-sera
Mar-10-2022, 5:57pm
Thank you for the revival, i didn't know this thread existed

Paul Cowham
Jun-13-2022, 6:21am
I just listened to the latest episode (#15) of the excellent David Grisman "acoustic encounters" podcast with Danny Barnes. In this edition, Dawg talks about early DGQ and also talks about Arthur Stern towards the end.

It reminded me of this excellent thread...

https://acousticdisc.com/podcast/

Nashville
Jun-13-2022, 8:06am
Fascinating!

MandoMaximus
Jun-17-2022, 12:19pm
Hey fellow Dawgologist > This live performance of the Jefferson Starship with Dawg sitting in was recently posted on YouTube. Was the first time I've seen his very unique electric F5. Complete with 2 tone knobs and his trademark "Dawg" headstock to boot! Is anyone familiar with this instrument or seen him play it? Fascinated to learn more. Nice version of Bluegrass At the Beach @ 1:08:25. Check his other vids, there's another show where David is playing is blond Giacomel, great version of Mill Valley Waltz and a couple others. What about that electric F5 though?

201542


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sRdr3-kBTQ&t=4127s

WilliamWMeyer
Jun-28-2022, 5:22pm
I'm listening to this Maria Muldaur record (https://www.discogs.com/master/1096438-Maria-Muldaur-And-Friends-On-The-Sunny-Side), and Dawg is credited on there as playing banjo. Has anyone seen him do this, or did he only do it when Garcia wasn't looking?

jefflester
Jun-28-2022, 9:02pm
I'm listening to this Maria Muldaur record (https://www.discogs.com/master/1096438-Maria-Muldaur-And-Friends-On-The-Sunny-Side), and Dawg is credited on there as playing banjo. Has anyone seen him do this, or did he only do it when Garcia wasn't looking?
Garcia and Dawg did a banjo duet of "Sweet Sunny South" on the Shady Grove album and live.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgUYHrcpm1c

starrbri
Jun-30-2022, 11:55am
Curious question, what is the difference or history of Acoustic Disc vs Acoustic Oasis?

I've been occasionally downloading lossless AD albums and was just curious about the two categories or Labels?

Nathan Kellstadt
Jun-30-2022, 1:40pm
I'm hoping someone will elaborate if necessary and correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Acoustic Disc is Dawg's record label. Acoustic Oasis is specifically for high quality downloads of Acoustic Disc releases.

I'm also happy to see this thread revived.

jefflester
Jun-30-2022, 7:43pm
https://acousticdisc.com/music-downloads/

"The Acoustic Disc catalog of CD releases is now available in digital download format..."
"The Acoustic Oasis catalog of digital releases is now available exclusively on this website."

I believe Acoustic Disc is albums that have had an actual physical CD (or cassette or even vinyl) release. Some of them are still available as CDs, but many of them are now out of print. But all(?) are available as downloads. Acoustic Oasis is strictly downloads, alternate titles or hi-def versions of albums that did have a physical release. And many of those that are a download version of a previous ACD title include bonus tracks from the same sessions.

If you're looking at the ACD for a particular title, be sure to check the AO section as well. For instance, the original album "Doc&Dawg" DLACD-25 14 tracks is $10 to download in the ACD section (and Hi-Def), but there is "Doc Watson & David Grisman Complete Studio Recordings" 35 tracks for $15 (also up to Hi-Def) in the AO section
https://acousticdisc.com/product/doc-watson-david-grisman-doc-dawg-download/
https://acousticdisc.com/product/doc-watson-david-grisman-doc-dawg-complete-studio-recordings-download/

starrbri
Jul-01-2022, 8:18am
https://acousticdisc.com/music-downloads/

"The Acoustic Disc catalog of CD releases is now available in digital download format..."
"The Acoustic Oasis catalog of digital releases is now available exclusively on this website."

I believe Acoustic Disc is albums that have had an actual physical CD (or cassette or even vinyl) release. Some of them are still available as CDs, but many of them are now out of print. But all(?) are available as downloads. Acoustic Oasis is strictly downloads, alternate titles or hi-def versions of albums that did have a physical release. And many of those that are a download version of a previous ACD title include bonus tracks from the same sessions.

If you're looking at the ACD for a particular title, be sure to check the AO section as well. For instance, the original album "Doc&Dawg" DLACD-25 14 tracks is $10 to download in the ACD section (and Hi-Def), but there is "Doc Watson & David Grisman Complete Studio Recordings" 35 tracks for $15 (also up to Hi-Def) in the AO section
https://acousticdisc.com/product/doc-watson-david-grisman-doc-dawg-download/
https://acousticdisc.com/product/doc-watson-david-grisman-doc-dawg-complete-studio-recordings-download/

Ah makes sense. And great tip, I haven't really ventured into AO. Will check it out. Thanks!

JeffLearman
Jul-02-2022, 8:59am
https://acousticdisc.com/music-downloads/ Hey thanks! Nice to see that "Dawg Jazz / Dawg Grass" is finally available again. It's one of my favorites but hasn't been available for a long time. Fortunately I still have a digital copy from vinyl (made using an old DAT recorder by a friend. A modern rendering would probably sound better.)