PDA

View Full Version : Cattle in the Cane



Harrmob
May-05-2004, 2:34pm
Well, my cattle has been chomping at the bit (is that possible, or is it only for horses), your welcome to give a listen of my version of Cattle in the Cane on my personal page. #I recorded it today on my lunch hour!

http://www.geocities.com/harrmob/

KevinM
May-05-2004, 3:43pm
Cool. Different from the Sam Bush version. More fiddle/old-timey?

Coy Wylie
May-05-2004, 4:12pm
I'll have to try again later for your site, it was temporarily down.

fmspinc
May-06-2004, 7:11am
Is the Cattle in the Cane tab posted yet ? , I still see Cherokee.

Thanks

levin4now
May-06-2004, 8:07am
I think Craig is still on vacation, so no changes to the website yet....

Look at alltabs.com and look at few of the 'cattle' tabs there and pick one you like! I imagine that co-mando.com has em too.

cutbait2
May-06-2004, 11:01am
the sam bush version is available at the Dawgs web site.

cutbait2
May-06-2004, 11:03am
its the version that's on mandolin extranvaganza so if you have the cd (and you should) you're all set

Michael H Geimer
May-06-2004, 11:59am
I was having a good chuckle this morning at all the different versions, and how none of them seem to agree about what accompaniment chords one ought to play.

Should be fun sorting it all out. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Harrmob
May-06-2004, 12:29pm
There are several variations, but the accompaniment or chords are the same on all of them, at least I have never seen a variation of different chords than the standard CITC.

dasspunk
May-06-2004, 12:31pm
I must admit that I've never liked Cattle in the Cane very much. Regardless, I usually find something interesting in any tune. Wonder what it will be this time...

Michael H Geimer
May-06-2004, 12:53pm
Harrmob,
CITC?* I'm unfamiliar with that acronymn.

I DL'ed a few versions off the ABC Tune Finder, and also looked up the tune in The Fiddler's Fakebook. I even just now printed out a quick disccusion of the chords going on at UMGF. There is massive disagreement between all these versions. LOL!

Like Dasspunk, the tune itself isn't grabbing me right away. I'm hoping that I'll uncover something personally compelling within these disparate variations.

Also, I'll be curious to hear the TEF file that Craig chooses to post as the 'official' version.

I'm actually more worried about finding inspiration to build upon, than I am about sussing out the 'actual' chords. I have a pretty decent 'spidey sense' for that sort of stuff ... once I'm motivated that is.

- Benig

* Of course, the meaning dawned on me just now, but I'm gonna leave that up there, just so everyone can see how dense I can really be. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Harrmob
May-06-2004, 1:14pm
Part B of the song is fun to just stay in C (or Am) and noodle cuz it is just Am and C. The version I posted is sort of my own take on the song, Sam is the man.

MikeB
May-06-2004, 2:11pm
Hey, I have a version of CITC from Ray Valla's book that I think is the best one I've heard. Can't very well post the tab, but I could slip someone the midi if I were asked. In fact, I sent it to Craig, but he seemed to be worried about copyright stuff.

My version has Am C E7 in the first section, A and G in the second, so I guess it's turned around from some versions. That seems to be fairly common.

MikeB
May-06-2004, 2:14pm
Btw, that book I mentioned is from Mel Bay and has some GREAT arrangements of some great tunes. Sort of intermediate level. The book is at least 20 years old.

Mel Bay's Deluxe Bluegrass Mandolin Method by Ray Valla.

Coy Wylie
May-06-2004, 4:57pm
Hey, I have a version of CITC from Ray Valla's book that I think is the best one I've heard. # Can't very well post the tab, but I could slip someone the midi if I were asked. #In fact, I sent it to Craig, but he seemed to be worried about copyright stuff. #

My version has Am #C #E7 in the first section, A and G in the second, so I guess it's turned around from some versions. #That seems to be fairly common.
In my looking around I've noticed also that some play the Am-C-E-Am section first and the A-G-A section second. I guess it really doesn't matter.

Here's a guitar version from Bryan Kimsey (http://www.larp.com/~bakimsey/music/Cattle.mp3).

joshro78
May-07-2004, 11:00am
Alan,
Where did you find the tabs on alltabs.com? The only tab I can find is for banjo.

levin4now
May-07-2004, 11:19am
sorry joshro78 - mine may have come from co-mando then. The .tef files are all in one folder on my pc now, so i don't know where I got em. i assumed that I had got'em from alltabs when in fact they are from co=mando I guess.

Alan

cam
May-12-2004, 7:52am
just heard your CITC dasspunk. Sounds great! I really like the funky shuffle you've got happening there.I just got my first ever mando yesterday (after playing guitar for 30 yrs) and hope to be able to upload for the next song. (btw what does dasspunk mean?)

dasspunk
May-12-2004, 8:12am
Thanks cam,

I'll have been playing mando for one year as of next month after many years on guitar as well. I bought it to give it a go and have been unable to put it down since. Haven't touched my guitars in a year.

Dasspunk means nothing really... kinda just happend...

Coy Wylie
May-12-2004, 8:24am
Dasspunk, where is your version stored? I can't find it.

Coy Wylie
May-12-2004, 8:26am
Never mind, found the link on the other thread.

dasspunk
May-13-2004, 7:53pm
Just listened to Plinker8's version of CITC...

Good job Plinker, sounds real good and the notes are all there but I think you're trying to play it too fast. Slow that thing down and I think you'll nail it! Good tone too, great attack...

levin4now
May-13-2004, 8:26pm
Some great versions of CITC up already. It's good to hear, b/c I haven't worked on it too much yet, and certainly do not have the 'feel' for the song yet. I told my wife at teh beginning of April that I didn't think I'd get Cherokee to sound remotely correct, but I did. It just takes practice I guess.

(My mando is getting a setup, I miss it!)

Dan Adams
May-13-2004, 8:44pm
Thanks Dass! #That was actually my second attempt before it became the official tune of the month, and I've always had trouble with the crosspicking in the A part. #The only reason it was at that speed, was for timing. #When I slow it down, the timing goes bad(worse)in a hurry. No pun intended, well, maybe. Go figure. #Always trying to find that happy medium. #Subsequent versions are of a more even tempo, and I continue to work on all the tunes listed, plus my regular repretiore. #That's what I'm really enjoying about the Project, my private collection of before and after comparisons as I revisit these tunes. #I like your version, and the bluesy slides. #That is one of the great benefits of playing the tune at a more manageble speed. #More accents!

Now where did I put that crosspick down? Dan

Bluegrasstjej
May-14-2004, 1:02pm
Thanks Craig for showing me the version on the MP site, I haven't looked at it because I thought it was one of the ones at Co-Mando and I've printed those already. The version on the MP site is really nice, where did you found that?
This is a tune I've never even tried to play before and I haven't even heard it, until just recently when I heard it with Sam Bush. I'll probably not learn it this month but maybe later in the summer. I've been busy so far in May with other things. I'm building some websites and I've actually taken time to relax outdoors (bought a new bike last week), now when my schoolwork is done. And yes, I've played the mando too but mainly practicing back-up and singing for the cyber jam.
Anyway, I hope to learn CITC, I like tunes that go into minors.

AlanN
May-14-2004, 1:30pm
Haven't seen the Emory Lester version of this tune mentioned here. Emory plays is slightly differently, with unique arpeggios to give it more of a flow, to my ears. His version is nicely tabbed out in Skip Kelley's book.

Bluegrasstjej
May-14-2004, 1:50pm
Emory Lester's version is displayed on Co-Mando as TEF. I've printed it but haven't really tried it, I preferred another one. Arpeggios are nice though, I think I'll have to play it through again.

craig
May-14-2004, 4:58pm
dasspunk,

you really put some funk into the minor part of this song! i bit your grinning on this one. again, like your style.

craig

dasspunk
May-15-2004, 9:24am
Thanks Craig,

Also, Chirorehab asked me for a copy of the backup track. I put it up on my site for anyone else who might want it.

Cattle in the Cane Backup (http://dasspunk.com/mando/CITC_backup.mp3)

chirorehab
May-15-2004, 6:34pm
And might I add that I love dasspunk's backup on this tune!

Eric

luckylarue
May-18-2004, 1:22pm
Butch Baldassari also has a great version of CITC in his book/cd, "30 Fiddle Tunes for Mandolin." My latest fav from his book is LMW. That's Lonesome Moonlight Waltz.

Caio - Scott from Maine

luckylarue
May-18-2004, 1:34pm
Butch Baldassari also has a great version of CITC in his book/cd, "30 Fiddle Tunes for Mandolin." My latest fav from his book is LMW. That's Lonesome Moonlight Waltz.

Caio - Scott from Maine

dasspunk
May-19-2004, 7:25pm
Hmmm... it's pretty quiet around here. Haven't seen a recording posted in some time...

How is it going group?

uncle ken
May-19-2004, 8:55pm
I'm working on it. It's not difficult mechanically to play but there is no definitive melody line to wrap your brain around which makes it difficult to learn. Also the sample recording is quite a bit different from the tab. I hope to have it worked out in a couple of days.

Coy Wylie
May-19-2004, 9:11pm
I've got the tune down in an arrangement I like but haven't had time to sit down and do the recording. I need time when the house is quiet. Maybe by the end of the week I'll be ready to post.

Don Christy
May-20-2004, 8:17am
I've worked out the melody and hope to record this weekend. I would really like to have an interesting rhythm track, but I really suck at it. Probably just chop-chop-chop through it. Any suggestions for improving rhythm playing??

Don

dasspunk
May-20-2004, 9:21am
Rhythm playing is severely neglected on every instructional book/cd/dvd I've ever seen. Many don't even go through the chords! I suppose it's a difficult subject to teach. There's no set rules necessarily. Let me see if I can describe what I try to do...

When in doubt, chop. We're the snare drum. It's our job. In larger jams, fiddle and banjo will also chop which can free you up to experiment but if no one is chopping, it will fall to the mando so get to it.

That said, a hard chop doesn't offer much in the way of chordal tones. I try to let some of the chord in my chop ring a bit here and there. It helps define the chord and can help support other players (especially in a duet). The best I can describe it in text would be: schpling, chop chop chop (lol). Where the "schpling" is on the downbeat of one and the chops are on the upbeats of 2, 3 and 4 (or just 3 and 4 if you like). Let the "schpling" ring until the upbeat of 2 (or 3) and continue chopping the rest of the measure. The "schpling" would be a dotted quarter or half note in this case. It might help to describe it like:
"one--and-and-and" or "one----and-and". Where each word and each dash represent a quarter note of a measure.

Other times I'm using a variation of a beat. Eg. "cha chaga cha cahga" or "chaga chaga chaga chaga"

I love to put weird kicks and slides in there as well but I don't think I can describe how to do it. In the end rhythm is a feel thing. Let yourself go and let it happen. Recording in this group is an excellent way to practice rhythm playing. Once you record the melody, take some stabs at different rhythm tracks until you find something you like.

Hope this helps or at least makes some sense...

Bluegrasstjej
May-20-2004, 9:23am
I agree with Ken, there is no melody line that's easy to remember so I can just play it, I have to look at the tab all the time and I don't like that. I may not work it out this month, but will probably post later. I haven't practiced very much on this month's tune. Been too busy and I wanted to practice other things for the cyber jam. I'll see what I can do after graduation.

Michael H Geimer
May-20-2004, 10:49am
I agree with Ken, too. CinC has quite the unmelodic melody, doesn't it?

Since I try to play 'by ear' as much as possible, it's important for me to get the tune 'in my head' first. Otherwise, I'll just get lost while playing the tune, or find myself concentrating of my fingers, or my pick, rather than staying mentally focused on the melody.

What has helped for me on CinC, was to record myself playing it as best I could. Then I played it back as loop until I was really sick of hearing it! LOL!

But, it has really helped me figure out which notes and phrases are *important*, and which one's are just filler material.

Also, hearing MikeB's version, and Dasspunk's really helped me to find my own footing.

I actually finsihed up my final recording just a few nights ago, and I really like it. It has an old-timey mountain fiddle feel to it, but I haven't yet decided if I should continue to post, or just play along with my copy of the Home Game.

- Benignus

Bluegrasstjej
May-20-2004, 10:54am
I also want to have the tune in my head. Sometimes I learn them by ear, sometimes from tab or sheet music, but however I learn them, I want to be able to play it by heart, otherwise I think it sounds too stereotype, there's no soul and feel in it. Maybe I'll try your way, Benignus, listen to it until I'm sick of it. usually, the tunes I know best, I've maybe not listened to them, but played them until I'm sick of them.

Michael H Geimer
May-20-2004, 11:54am
Yeah. Usually I'll play a song straight from sheet music until it starts to sinks in, but since I wasn't getting anywhere that way with CinC, I thought I'd try listening without having my fingers involved.

Afterwards, I had a much better idea of how I thought the song should sound. And to get there, I actually dropped a bunch of notes from the arrangement and it made the whole thing a little easier.

OTOH ... I also came to the conclusion that those triplet hammer-on / pull-offs were important to the character of the tune, so I had to dedicate a whole night to drilling those darned things. Ouch!

Harrmob
May-20-2004, 12:44pm
Benig- let'er rip. Bovine head's want to hear some more!

dasspunk
May-20-2004, 1:38pm
I haven't yet decided if I should continue to post, or just play along with my copy of the Home Game.


Benignus, (and any others with similar thoughts) please continue to post. This group is currently open to any and all. If that should change, so be it but as of now, you are part of the group. Members of the group are encouraged to post... end of story.

Craig has the final word on the membership of this group. I leave it to him and will gladly abide any decision he makes.

Michael H Geimer
May-20-2004, 2:32pm
Yeah. I agree, and will likely post my CinC.

I'm gonna finish this comment on that other thread ... where it's more on topic.

Michael H Geimer
May-20-2004, 5:58pm
OK ... Kelly_Guy has blessed my involvement. That is, I really don't want to be a discouraging element, and he help reassure me that all is well with our project. So, I've posted my finshed version.

I titled mine Cattle in the Corn, as that was the title on the version I downloaded off ABC. (I really like how you can download from there in PDF format, and it comes through as standard notation! Great for TAB-o-phobes like myself)

The recording is a single take - not the first - of me playing my Mid-Mo M-11. I think that little axe just sounds awesome, and it really keeps getting better and better. I tried to imagine how a fiddler would bow the tune, and attempted to get my phrasing to mimic that sound, especially in the (b) section.

Up at Yahoo! or here (http://home.earthlink.net/~mgeimer/music/).

- Benig

dasspunk
May-20-2004, 7:07pm
Nice version Benignus... funky, fiddly and fabulous. Minor with a side of minor. Nicely done!

Bluegrasstjej
May-21-2004, 4:10am
Nice, Benignus. Doesn't sound like any of the other versions! It sounds really..I don't know, classical somehow. I like it. It's nice listening.

Don Christy
May-23-2004, 10:02am
Just got around to listening to Benig's version. Very cool. I love the vibe your recordings always seem to have. Please continue to participate AND post.
Don

Don Christy
May-23-2004, 10:05am
Love your version harrmob. You've really got it clean and up to speed.
Don

Don Christy
May-23-2004, 10:07am
Great work dasspunk. You've got the b section really swingin'. I love your rhythm playing too. I've just posted my version and you'll see how much work my rhythm playing needs.
Don

Don Christy
May-23-2004, 10:10am
plinker8 your pickin sounds pretty good! Seems like the rhythm track is a little out of sync. Were you using audaicty? I have some trouble with this, but the time shift tool allows you to correct. great job though.
Don

Don Christy
May-23-2004, 10:12am
I've just posted a couple of versions of CitC on yahoo. I'm pretty pleased with where I got with the melody, but my rhythm playing really needs work. I posted one version without rhythm too. Wanted to see if I could hold it together at 180 bpm. Pretty much at my limit http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Don

dasspunk
May-23-2004, 11:36am
Nicely done ducati. Very nice. Rhythm can be a tough one. It's all about feel and supporting those you're playing with. Take a listen to any of the Doc and Dawg recordings. Grisman throws it all out there... with just the two of them (or three with Jack), he takes numerous liberties with his playing... it's when I like his playing best. Rhythm concepts galore!

Kelly_Guy, also nicely done. I'm digging that version. I've never heard CITC at a jam but perhaps I will, when next I make the pilgrimage to the land of beer and brats!

Bluegrasstjej
May-23-2004, 12:17pm
Very nice, Don!!! You do it really well. Your back-up is really funky. I like that! Great job.


I haven't even learned it yet! I think I'll jump this and be back for Fisher's hornpipe (or Cluck old hen..or whatever wins).

Bluegrasstjej
May-23-2004, 12:19pm
Kelly, you sound great!!! Maybe I should try your version once again before giving up. I just love it!

dasspunk
May-23-2004, 3:27pm
Tjej, where are you having problems? Perhaps the group could help...

Bluegrasstjej
May-23-2004, 3:49pm
It's not that it's too hard or so. Both versions are ok to play. I'm not sure anyone can help this problem. I'm a bit weird. When I play a tune, I want to have it in my head. Otherwise I just play some notes from a book. I learn most tunes by heart pretty quickly, but this one doesn't seem to get into my head. It's like there's nothing that sort of comes back, no "theme" in the tune (or at least I don't get it). It may be because I haven't heard this tune before (I have it somewhere with Sam Bush but haven't listened to it for ages and I can't find the CD). The other tunes we've worked on, I've heard several times and played them some too. But I've never played this one and barely heard it. This kind of tunes, that go minor sometimes, are quite hard to improvise on too (at the moment I'm not good at improvising other tunes either, haven't practiced that for a long time) so I can't come up with something of my own.
I'll try again with Kelly's version, that was a little bit simpler. I hope to come up with at least something. Thanks for your offer, Dasspunk.

dasspunk
May-23-2004, 4:44pm
Yeah, I understand completely. I really had to talk my fingers into this one... it's not a song I would have sought out to learn on my own. This is one of the main reasons I really like this group. It gets me motivated to learn things out of my comfort zone.

What worked for me on this (and really most tunes) was to pop it open in Tabledit, slow it down to 100bpm, select one section at a time and drive it home a 100 times or so. Then grab the other section, rince and repeat.

Sucks to be my neighbor...

levin4now
May-23-2004, 6:22pm
I didn't really "get" Cherokee Shuffle at the beginning, but soon I got a 'feeling' for the tune. CITC is a funny little beast to learn. I sure can't get it to sound like Sam on the BG.M.Extravaganza CD. sigh.

Dan Adams
May-23-2004, 9:25pm
Don (ducati08):

Funny, a friend and I were talking about aligning tracks at a party just this evening. #We've been passing 'wave' files back and forth electronically, and the back-up tracks always seem a little off. I haven't played with the time shift yet, just trying to align the tracts by deleting portions of each track at the start. #I played all three parts with headphones, but the 'digital delay' gets the rhythm off just enough to be annoying. #Or my timing really sucks! I won't have time to play with the program for a few months, but a look forward to learning more about the capabilities of Audacity. Thanks for the compliment.

Where did I lay down my 'time shift' pick? #Dan

Jaded
May-24-2004, 12:11am
I've never had much success with using the time shift to align tracks. I can get it pretty close, but pretty close doesn't really cut it. Even the smallest difference in sync makes the rhythm sound out of whack.

Bluegrasstjej
May-24-2004, 8:13am
I am pretty sure it's not your timing that is bad, plinker. I know mine isn't as bad as it was, at least not when I play back-up on a tune. It's Audacity that has some kind of delay. I haven't been able to make it right even with the time shift, until yesterday when I tried to do it from the end of the song, instead of from the start.
At the end of Soldier's joy I did two downstrokes, first on the open string and then on the final chord. As you know the tracks in Audacity shows like waves, and I could see pretty exact where those downstrokes were. So I took the back-up track and pulled those downstrokes to the exact place where the downstrokes on the melody track were, and got it really well in rhythm. So I'll try something like that in the future too.

dasspunk
May-24-2004, 1:42pm
Wow, the floodgates have opened for CITC recordings. Quite a few to choose from. Great job all! I hope we'll get even more...

Get 'em while they're hot (http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/mandolinproject/files/)

Bluegrasstjej
May-24-2004, 3:48pm
They all sound great!!!!! Applauds to everyone!!

Don Christy
May-24-2004, 6:43pm
Kelly, just got to your recording. Really nice job. The double stops are great.
Don

Don Christy
May-24-2004, 7:01pm
g smolt - I really like your version. Very nice!! Did you learn it from a tab? Which?
Thanks
Don

chirorehab
May-26-2004, 8:47pm
All these sound great!

G Smolt - I really love the harmonics as you go into the B part - very nice!

Keep up the great work!

Eric

250sc
May-27-2004, 5:59am
Have the MP3 files been moved? I can't find them.

Bluegrasstjej
May-27-2004, 11:29am
Check them out here: Mandolin Project (http://www.mandolinproject.150m.com)

250sc
May-28-2004, 6:03am
Thanks, I found them last night.

Bluegrasstjej
Jun-01-2004, 10:34am
Gosh, when you look at these thread you could believe that I don't do anything else than sitting here typing messages!!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I've finally uploaded my Cattle in the cane to the Yahoo group. I didn't add any back-up this time. It just sounded to bad. I really have to work on chords and chops. Especially minor chords, I don't do them much but I really have to if I want to sing Irish ballads!

Kelly_guy
Jun-01-2004, 10:42am
Very nice, Susanne! Clean picking, and very good tone. Well done! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

cam
Jun-01-2004, 12:40pm
Just listened to you CITC there Bluegrasstjej. Sounds like your really coming on, getting rythmically more solid and playing with more projection. Keep it up!

Bluegrasstjej
Jun-01-2004, 1:27pm
Thanks for your comments!
I'm so glad my timing is finally getting anywhere. I finally will have to agree that playing with a metronome has given me something after all. I recorded this one without click track, though.
Now I'll start working on Fisher's hornpipe! Can't wait - I really love that tune.

carolynbeth
Jun-01-2004, 9:31pm
Great job Susanne! Your timing was great, very steady and clean throughout; if you did that without a metronome I'm very impressed! Nice clear tone, too.

Carolyn

chirorehab
Jun-02-2004, 8:07am
Susanne,

Your timing was great! Very clean, too! Well done!

Eric

Bluegrasstjej
Jun-02-2004, 2:06pm
Thanks!
I'm so glad to hear you comment on timing and tone, these are the things I've tried to work on and that I wanted to improve on. The next thing will be speed and control. Two things not very much related in my mandolin picking....

Bluegrasstjej
Jun-15-2004, 3:49am
Craig has posted his recording of Cattle in the cane!!!!
It sounds great!

craig
Jun-16-2004, 10:56am
susanne,

thanks! it's rustic.

craig

Mandobar
Jul-02-2004, 5:42pm
ohhhhhhh, i just posted my version.......my editing leaves much to be desired, but i just closed my eyes and pushed UPLOAD. (recording done on my very new and very tight sounding brentrup L21, a bit thin on the top, but it has developed a lovely bass)

Bluegrasstjej
Jul-03-2004, 3:12am
Beautiful, Mandobar!!! Just gorgeous!! I wish I'd had the patience to work with that version, it's soo neat! You do it really nicely and have a wonderful tone!