How to win a contest

[dudlebug23]

Is there anyone here that has competed in a festival mandolin contest? I was wondering what a typical judges panel looks for. How much emphasis is placed on tone, technique, etc. Could an intermediate player work on a piece nonstop for a year and get by sounding like someone who could win? Do they look for your ability to play up the neck, do they look for certain genres of music, etc. Any advice? I thought about entering one someday, if I have the guts to do it. I'm betting that most of us don't enter things like this, but how many of you have thought about it? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[sunburst]

Well, I'm not a mandolin player, so I've never entered a mandolin contest.
I have, however, entered banjo contests, If I get back enough of the festival fees by doing so to make it worth the stress and the waiting line.

I have also been a judge before. The judges are usually given things to look for and judge on. Things like timing, tuning, etc.. If the things the judges are looking for are published, get a copy and practice accordingly.
A lot of contests, including some of the well known ones, are not "real" contests. There is an obvious bias in favor of local people, cute children, people from foreign countries (best if your not from out of town, but if your are, the farther the better...go figure...) and that sort of thing.

In a "real" contest, the judges usually can't see the players, the players use numbers, not names, the judges don't know where they are from, what they look like, or any of that. There will usually be an elimination round, with the higher scoring players playing again, and usually more than one tune.

When I was judging, I was looking for the three Ts; tuning, timing, and tone. It's usually better if you play well within your capabilities rather than try to play something that is too difficult or too fast to play in time and with dynamics and taste. I'd rather hear good solid simple picking that flash that doesn't quite make it.

It all comes down to how the contest is organized, what the judges are instructed to judge on, how well the judges stick to that plan, and whether or not the organizers of the contest pay any attention to what the judges think anyway.

[fredfrank]

I was in a guitar flatpicking contest one time and I only knew a tiny handful of tunes. I figured three would be enough. Well, as luck would have it, I made the cut, and after that, we were asked to do not one but two playoff sets after that. I was doing medley arrangements for the last go-round.

So I guess the answer to whether you could work one tune to death and get by, would be--it depends on whether you want to get past the first round.

[mandopete]

Is it a bluegrass contest? #If so I would strongly suggest you pick a Bill Monroe tune, even if you don't play it in that style. #I won the mandolin contest at the Chilliwack Bluegrass festival some years back with Sam Bush's version of "Going Back To Old Kentucky" (from the Bluegrass Mandolin Extravanganza). #The gal who won it both before and after I did played Bluegrass Stomp and Kentucky Mandolin.

[JimRichter]

As far as repertoire, I really think that has a lot to do with the judges and the type of contest.

I've competed in both banjo and mandolin the last couple of years at the Indiana Pickin and Fiddlin State contest. As the name says, fiddling is the big thing, which takes two days of eliminations. The banjo and mandolin contest are one single round.

I've found that the judges really like the complex, contest fiddle type tunes like Lime Rock, Done Gone, etc. I'm a Monroe and blues guy, so there's not a lot of fancy left hand there.

First year I competed, I placed 4th in banjo and didn't place in mandolin. For banjo I played Salt Creek and Cowboys and Indians (Bill Emerson).

This year I played Brilliancy and Little Big Horn (Alan Munde) on the banjo--I placed 3rd (I should have had first, but excuses of excuses, my right hand locked up due to my carpal tunnel--I was pushing it too hard).

On mandolin I did Old Ebeneezer Dangerfield (the medley of Monroe's Ebeneezer Scrooge and Old Dangerfield) and Sweet Georgia Brown. Since I gig out as a blues mandolinist, I approached this as a swing tour de force. Not particular fast--or even a lot of consecutive notes--but very much in the pocket and playing through three positions on the mandolin. Best thing to show off my left hand. The Monroe showed off my right. I placed third. The two guys ahead of me played Lime Rock and some classical piece. The same type of stuff that won it the year before.

This year I'm probably going to do Little Rock Getaway on mandolin, though I'm not for sure. I'm never going to be a true contest wiz kid. Best thing for me is to really play up my strengths (note choice, tone, timing) rather than flash. I probably won't place first cause some kid with those qualities and speed and flash will skunk me. But I'd expect to place.

Now on banjo this year, I expect 1st place unless I really botch it up. I've been really getting back into my picking and shaking the cobwebs off. I've got several contest things worked up so I feel a lot better about it. Again, I don't have the greatest driving right hand (I'll never be a Crowe or Emerson), but I do have a sensitive touch for melodic style banjo, so I've got to play up my strengths. I'm not going to win it with Train 45, but I might with Dusty Miller.

Lot of ramblings from a guy who's trying to woodshed for some contests this summer.

And, by the way, I've heard John (sunburst) pick banjo--a great picker and it doesn't surprise me that he won some contests. I remember him picking a great Road to Columbus.

Jim

[Fretbear]

Jim, how do you arrange "Old Ebeneezer Dangerfield"? First one and then the other, or do you combine the parts of the tunes?

[JimRichter]

For Old Ebeneezer Dangerfield, get yourself a copy of Butch Robins Grounded Centered Focused where him and Mike Compton duet on it.

It's basically Ebeneezer Scrooge with a hard stop at the end then Old Dangerfield and then a hard stop, and then close out with only the A part of Ebeneezer.

I actually have a YouTube video of it (not my best performance, by far). Tunes too fast and last part of Dangerfield is weak:

Old Ebeneezer Dangerfield (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gkbdZRthwjA)

Jim

[Ken Sager]

Winfield rules prohibit medleys, so be wary of doing this if you're competing in a Winfield "sanctioned" contest.

I've competed a few times, including Winfield where I didn't make the cut. I have won the Utah State champtionship in both mandolin and flat-picking guitar, plus another second in Utah the year before, and a second at Targee.

I've also judged the last two years of Utah State contests.

So, here's my advice:

1) Know the rules of the contest (don't do medleys if they're prohibited, know the number of tunes expected, the time limits, find out whether you can have only one accompanist, etc)
2) Pick recognizable tunes (fiddle tunes, Monroe instrumentals) but know what the judges like if you can find out.
3) Play within your ability - never stretch or reach beyond where you know you can go. If you're hoping to surprise yourself you're just as likely (if not more likely) to disappoint yourself.
4) Arrange the tune to play through the known melody once, improvise a second time through, maybe a third time through kicked up a notch, then finish it with the known melody played straight and strong to end (perhaps with a little embellishment). Three times through the tune is enough (unless you're doing Jerusalem Ridge, which isn't a good contest tune unless you nail it and only do it twice).
5) BE IN TUNE
6) PLAY IN TIME
7) DON'T SPEAK (most contests will automatically disqualify a contestant for even saying "Thank You" after applause).
8) Play as CLEAN as you can. Mistakes stick out as much as you think they do, as does sloppy play.
9) Often it's the last time through a tune that someone screws up, so don't do it that extra time through... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It's also good to research the specific contest you're entering to see what types of tunes have won, and to find out ALL the rules specific to that contest.

Most importantly, have fun. If you're having fun your play will reflect it and you'll have a better chance of doing well.

HTH,
Ken

[Doug Edwards]

The one and only contest I was in was judged on:
difficulty of piece; timing, precision of playing. The judges sat in a practice room and the contestant was piped in. Each contestant was indentified by a letter so the judges would not know who was playing. I actually came in fourth out of eight. Several better players self destructed.

[jim_n_virginia]

4) Three times through the tune is enough (unless you're doing Jerusalem Ridge, which isn't a good contest tune unless you nail it and only do it twice).
I won second place in the mandolin contest at the Watermelon Park Festival in Winchester, VA last year with Jerusalem Ridge. I had a guitar backing me up and I only played it two times.

My advice is to practice your contest tunes until you can play then very, very cleanly. Most everyone else will be trying to play at Thile style lightspeed so I think the judges will notice you more if you play clean, strong and at a brisk pace.

I hate listening to people playing SOOOO fast that the tune just sounds like a blurr of noise. IMHO you are not making music then you are just practicing finger acrobatics.

[Kevin K]

Clean, clear, with power and feeling on tunes that folks can pick up on.

[Greg H.]

I used to enter guitar contests a few decades ago (took 3rd at Winfield 32 years ago and that's still the high water mark of my musical career). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #One thing that seemed to help me is try and sit so you're looking primarily at either your mandolin or your rhythm guitarist. The more you can do to get your mind into the tune and away from the fact you're in a contest they better you're likely to play. I agree with some of the other posters, start and end with the melody (preferably the melody from a different position or octave). Unless you're Chris Thile try and limit yourself to no more than 3 or 4 times through the tune and definitely do at least one version up the neck. The judges, having to listen to and judge all the applicants can get burned out by hearing slight variations of the same tune over and over, and if you only play in 1st position they may assume that's all you can do (and, of course, it has to be up the neck on the A or E strings so they can hear that your are, indeed, up the neck).

[sunburst]

Despite the flattery from Jim Richter, I never said anything about winning any contests, just intering. In fact, this year at Galax, my perfect record was broken; 21 consecutive years without a ribbon in the contest.

I showed up, rusty, having not played much the months before the festival, so I started going over the simpler tunes that I knew, looking for one I could keep in time and not miss to many notes. I settled on Welcome to New York, a Bill Emerson tune. It has a moderate tempo, and I could get through it fairly well.
I found a guitar player to back me up and went to the stage just playing to get my entry fee back, no attempt to actually "compete".

I said I was just going to play it through twice, and my guitar player friend said I should play it through 3 times. Well, I said I'll see how it's going and if I'm going to stop after two, I'll just look at you.

So I went on stage, kicked it off pretty solid, didn't miss any notes, stayed in time, decided I better quit before I had a chance to mess up, so I looked over at the guitar player during the 2nd time through, and nailed a solid ending. Then I collected my refund money and had a beer.
Well, as it turns out I got 9th place out of 10.

Welcome to New York is in the key of D, not G, A, or B, like the majority of banjo tunes, so that gives it a sound that sets it off from most of what the judges are hearing. It uses inside string work, and dropping the second finger to the first string, techniques that are considered pretty advanced for banjo playing, it moves up and down the neck, and has more than 3 chords. In short, it is a tune that sounds good without a band, has a nice melody that the audience can enjoy, and uses some techniques that the judges might be impressed with if they know what they are listening for.

[gnelson651]

How to win a contest?

Play your best, http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Hope its better than your competition. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jmcgann]

About contests (my take) (http://www.johnmcgann.com/contest.html)

[mrmando]

I just serve my "special recipe" chili to all the other contestants about an hour before the contest...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Many years ago,i won the Bluegrass Banjo contest at the British Federation Of Fretted Instruments festival.No big deal,there were only 4 of us in it.I played Doug Dillard's version of 'Libery' off the ''Backporch Bluegrass'' record. The only thing that the 3 judges marked me down on,was playing well within my capabilities.In other words,i wasn't pushing the boundaries of my playing - i was quite literally playing safe. Having said that,one of the other competitors attempted to play a'medley' of tunes, got all mixed up
& totally blew it. Also,it does help to have an accompanist,if that is allowed. Musical & moral support as well.