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View Full Version : Loar era a snakehead w/f-holes



haptown
Dec-17-2006, 12:11am
I have a friend here in Nashville who says he has a Loar Era (not signed) A(5?), snakehead with f-holes. He seems to think this combination of features on a Loar era mando is quite rare but he's not sure and obviously I'm not either. Could someone shed a little light on the subject?

Glassweb
Dec-17-2006, 12:55am
One picture worth a thousand replies...

f5loar
Dec-17-2006, 1:29am
Sounds like a retopper to me. Photos would tell a lot.

bradeinhorn
Dec-18-2006, 11:33am
wasn't there only one of those?

Brian Aldridge
Dec-18-2006, 11:38am
well, so far. Too bad the mystery man hasn't come back with a picture. Of course, being in Nashville, the poor guy wouldn't have anyone around that could identify it for him.

allenhopkins
Dec-18-2006, 12:01pm
Perhaps the name "Gruhn" might ring a bell -- hear he's in Nashville...

haptown
Dec-19-2006, 4:40pm
Brian said "well, so far. Too bad the mystery man hasn't come back with a picture. Of course, being in Nashville, the poor guy wouldn't have anyone around that could identify it for him."

I'm no mystery man, my name is Andy Hudson, I'm the founder of the Nashville Ukulele Society(Iwww.nashukes.com), so ukuleles are my speciality, and it's not my mandolin, a friend of mine was telling me about it and asking me if I knew anything about it. I would love to be able to put a picture of it on here, I've asked him if he would email me a picture but I've recieved nothing yet. I told him to talk to Gruhn but I also wanted to ask here just to satisfy my own curiosity.
While there are lots of mandolin players in Nashville I only know a few and they don't know anything more than I do about this mandolin.
Brian, I'm assuming that you were trying to be funny but it's hard to tell that from a typewritten statement. For a second there I thought that you were trying to be mean spirited but I'm sure this is not the case.

Brian Aldridge
Dec-19-2006, 5:23pm
yeah, Andy, all friendly quiping on my part. I would love to see a pic of the mandolin in question and hope you can make it happen. Thanks for addressing the issue instead of assuming. In reality, I would not be totally surprised if another Loar era A model with F holes would surface, but to this point, there is only one in existence http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?51
It would be quite an exciting development if your friends turned out to be another one of these, and would be quite a windfall for him, not unlike winning the lottery. I am sure there are several folks around here that feel as I do, a bit skeptical, but waiting and watching with interest to see how this plays out. I hope you put in whatever effort it takes to see this thing through, and bring either the treasure to light or expose this mandolin to a determination of what it really is. Thanks for joining us, and sorry that I seemed abrasive.

danb
Dec-19-2006, 5:56pm
Andy, does it look like this one?

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/74003_front_1.jpg

sgarrity
Dec-19-2006, 6:04pm
And if it does look like that one, I'd trade him a nice F5 even for it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

danb
Dec-20-2006, 5:55am
Andy- there's a level of banter here from long association.. many of us have been chattering about old Gibson mandolins for many years. Stories and rumors come through often and many of them don't pan out, but nobody is intentionally slamming you personally.

There is only one A5 Snakehead mandolin, and it's retail value is probably in the $165,000 range right now (comprable to a Loar F5), maybe more. My advice would be to get it looked at seriously (take it to George Gruhn) to see if this is what your friend has.

Hans
Dec-20-2006, 8:13am
Hey Dan, just out of curiosity, was that instrument single bound, top bound or side bound?

mandopete
Dec-20-2006, 10:11am
Looks like the "green" binding again like Ron Thomason's Loar.

Darryl Wolfe
Dec-20-2006, 12:05pm
It is top bound and the binding is fairly normal looking. Those pics make it look green. Overall the mandolin has most of the attributes of a Dec 23 F5. Slightly darker color with the "greenish hue" to the finish, a bit less glossy than most July 9's, all bindings match well and narrow wavy curl to the maple

Darryl Wolfe
Dec-20-2006, 12:11pm
like this

mitch simpson
Dec-20-2006, 12:21pm
Dan,
I think that you are low on the Loar signed A-5. I for one would gladly give $250,000.00 for it. I have had the opportunity to play it and it is an extremely good sounding mandolin. As it is most likely a one of a kind item I almost see it as priceless. I am sure that there are other collectors who would pay just as much as me or maybe more. Mitch

Darryl Wolfe
Dec-20-2006, 12:41pm
Dan,
I think that you are low on the Loar signed A-5. #I for one would gladly give $250,000.00 for it. #I have had the opportunity to play it and it is an extremely good sounding mandolin. #As it is most likely a one of a kind item I almost see it as priceless. #I am sure that there are other collectors who would pay just as much as me or maybe more. #Mitch
Nice to hear from you Mitch. I agree with you. As a measuring stick, the last time the A5 changed hands the asking price was $7500. 1-1/2 times the going $5000 price for an F-5

bradeinhorn
Dec-20-2006, 4:18pm
wow. what year? who is the owner?

haptown
Dec-20-2006, 10:03pm
I'm meeting with my friend (Will) tomorrow - I'll take some photos of the mandolin and post them here as soon as I can.

Glassweb
Dec-20-2006, 10:43pm
I'm with Mitch and Darryl on this one... almost impossible to assign a value to this mandolin. In a certain way, I see this instrument as second only to Monroe's F5 in terms of collectibility and value. Try and find another one! And yes Mitch, if I had the money and it were for sale I'd pop at that number too.

mrmando
Dec-21-2006, 5:09am
Andy ... photos of the label, if you can get them, will help. Get the model number, serial number, and if you can find it, the factory order number (usually stamped on the neck block inside the instrument -- it will take a good strong light to find it!).

Gibson made a ton of A-mandos with F holes AFTER the Loar era ... so it's possible that your friend's mando is one of those, and simply isn't as old as he thinks it is. The model number/serial number would give that away, even if we didn't have a photo.

danb
Dec-21-2006, 6:36am
Mrmando- none of the later ones would have been snakeheads though!

Interesting regarding the A5 pricing. I would think personally that offering $250,000 seriously might part it from it's current owner. I recall Darryl & I chatted about this a while back, and at the time he commented that because it was an A it was still only a tiny premium of above the going rate for a nice F5.

Personally I think the coolest "unheralded" one would be Lloyd's 10-string. It would depart from the bluegrass world to be sure, but would be the ultimate machine for old-timey, rags, celtic, and the sort of stuff I love

8ch(pl)
Dec-21-2006, 7:23am
Quote Mitch Simpson

"I think that you are low on the Loar signed A-5. I for one would gladly give $250,000.00 for it."

Mitch, if you have $250,00, could you help out a poor cousin?

Hans
Dec-21-2006, 7:40am
Thanks Darryl! Is that body the same size as the teens A-4?

danb
Dec-21-2006, 7:51am
well same as a snakehead A dimensions aside from the top. Peghead is fancier than an A4 as well.

Hans
Dec-21-2006, 9:14am
Thanks Dan. I have the Siminoff print, but wondered about the accuracy. The peghead looks wrong compared to that A-5 brass template pix.

I feel a distressed Lloyd A-5 coming on... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

testore
Dec-21-2006, 10:40am
I made a very quick A model 16years ago after a friends 1918? A something snakehead.In May I replaced the top with one with F holes and made a longer neck.It looks very much like the one posted here and it sounds very nice too. I didn't bother to rub and buff it out because it's my beater and didn't feel like spending the time. It is now starting to look a little distressed on it's own.Go for it Hans, it's a different animal with those F holes moved forward and I've heard that the Griffith sounds fantastic.

Darryl Wolfe
Dec-21-2006, 10:51am
Hans, the body shape is identical to the Loar era A models. #The depth is 1-3/8 like an F model. #I believe the back to be carved identical to an A model. #Note that the distance from the top end of the body to the crosspiece for the 15th fret is akin to an F model instead of the greater distance usually seen on the A for the 12th fret. I theorize that they carved the top on a F pattern and simply modified the upper end to work after it was carved. The peghead is bound with one single piece of binding..no miters

Spruce
Dec-21-2006, 1:29pm
....and the "offset" neck, again like the F's...

mrmando
Dec-21-2006, 3:25pm
Mrmando- none of the later ones would have been snakeheads though!
That's true, but terms like "snakehead" can cause a lot of confusion to people who don't engage in vintage Gibsonspeak every day. I know it took me a while to figure out what it meant. So one theory is that Andy's friend mistakenly called his mando a "snakehead" when it really isn't. We'll know when we see the photos.

sgarrity
Dec-21-2006, 4:32pm
A distressed A5 would be awesome. I actually discussed having one built by Gary but another mandolin popped up before I made the decision. Some day soon though I'd love to own one.

Shaun

haptown
Dec-21-2006, 5:14pm
I met with my friend Will today - I'm afraid that the mandolin is not what I thought it was. It does not have f-holes, it is an oval hole built in 1924; however, it is a snakehead. You see, last saturday night he was over at my house for a Christmas party and we started talking about mandolins - I knew he had, and I had seen two of his mandos (he has several)but somehow during the conversation I got the idea that he was telling me that he had an A-5, Loar era snakehead model and did I know anything about them. Maybe it was the wine, or the Sam Adams or both but I was sure he told me he had this white whale in his collection. He did think it odd that I was so insistent that he take his mandolin down to Gruhn to have them look at it.
While the mandolin isn't what I thought it was, it is however, a very nice mandolin. Sounded great and plays wonderfully.
I offer my humblest apologies to everyone who has taken the time to check in on and contribute to this thread. I am very embarrassed for this gaff and I hope you all will go easy on me when dishing out the derisive comments (of which I most certainly deserve).

SternART
Dec-21-2006, 5:20pm
no problem haps.......

grandmainger
Dec-21-2006, 5:31pm
I offer my humblest apologies to everyone who has taken the time to check in on and contribute to this thread. I am very embarrassed for this gaff and I hope you all will go easy on me when dishing out the derisive comments (of which I most certainly deserve).
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Man, you had us all on the edge of our seats for a while! It kind of felt like we were on the verge of a big discovery! It didn't work out, but that's not to worry, it was nice to daydream about it for a while!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Germain

fatt-dad
Dec-21-2006, 5:40pm
It still may be worth a few hundred dollars though. . . . . (ha). Seriously, does the label say what type of "A" model it is? Some of these can be worth several thousand dollars and are quite nice mandolins!

f-d

Gail Hester
Dec-21-2006, 5:44pm
haptown, no worries, it sparked one of the best discussions in awhile.

haptown
Dec-21-2006, 6:08pm
Will's Gibson that I was confused about is an A-4, oval hole, snakehead and it was built in 1924 and I just discovered today that he has another that looks almost exactly like this one but it was made one year earlier. My friend Will has four Gibson mandolins and they all have oval holes with snakehead pegheads. I guess I should have taken a picture of the mandolin but when I realized my mistake I just didn't see any point in it. He's only a few blocks away from my house so I'll see him again soon and get some pictures of all of his mandolins and post them here.

sgarrity
Dec-21-2006, 6:31pm
If it's a '24 A4, that's one heckuva nice mandolin. And fairly rare too. Probably worth $7k+ depending on condition.

grandmainger
Dec-21-2006, 6:46pm
Yes, a few shots of a snakehead collection will be greatly appreciated here. Alos, any information/photos you can forward to Dan Beimborn at themandolinarchive.com (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/) will always be welcome to increase the database. Your friend has good taste in mandos! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

bradeinhorn
Dec-21-2006, 7:18pm
yeah, 24 a4 mandos are going in the 5000+ range

Brian Aldridge
Dec-21-2006, 9:03pm
Thank goodness there was not a second A5 Loar. We need Unicorns. We lost the Epiphone Windsor- there were none for ever, then all of a sudden there were two. Thanks for sparking this thread Haptown.

Hans
Dec-23-2006, 3:24pm
Darryl or Dan, a question. The Siminoff print shows an optional pickguard and Roger says that the original came without P/G, but archives show a couple of pix with a pickguard. Is that pickguard original, or an aftermarket addition?