Which is the best loar? [Archive]

danb

Dec-10-2006, 7:01am

Germain- they're all pretty good. I've played the one Steve has in the classifieds and it's a very nice one. They have enough of a personality individuaully that you won't see a consensus on which is the best, though you'll hear a lot of folks like John Reishman's, David Grisman's "crusher", and the Loar that proceeds Dawg's by one serial number.

My personal favorite is still the Schultz Loar (76547). It's safe to say "They are all fantastic"

Hans

Dec-10-2006, 7:26am

There is no best. I've heard/played several including Charlie Derrington's (MRI'd to get specs for the MM's), Reichman's, (fortunate to have specs for that one) and Frank's. I've heard everything from lean and mean to sweet and purdy. I've also heard what I would consider a dud. It was properly set up, but just didn't have it in my opinion. I guess if I had to pick one I'd pick Charlie's because in my opinion, it has the quintessential "bluegrass tone", and that's what the Loars are about, right?

carleshicks

Dec-10-2006, 8:27am

kudzugypsy

Dec-10-2006, 9:05am

limited experience here also, but i'd put the late '22 batch first (which dawgs crusher comes from), then the july 9 batch which are all pretty unique, and in last place, in terms of my experience are the virzi '24's.
lets just say i've never played a #july 9 that i didnt think was worth the $$$ (there is *something* about that batch in uniqueness), while imo, i have played some less than impressive virzi 24's. but they are ALL above average and great, its just imo, some deserve the price they bring, and some dont - thats all.
unfortunately for me, the only loar i could have bought (afforded) was a virzi 24 that an aquaintance had for sale some years ago when they were selling for $20K - and honestly, it was a nice mando and all, but i didnt think it was worth that - not that much better than the Nugget i was playing at the time. of course, NOW, if i had to do it all over, i'd get it just for the investment and then trade it for this fellas july 9 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Mandomusic

Dec-10-2006, 10:23am

Most Loars are exceptional in some way; including Steve's July 9th. #Below are perspectives' from John Reischman and Charlie Derrington on related questions that were asked during the Co-Mando Guest of the Week program:

John Reischman Guest of the Week February 16, 2003

Q - How does it feel to own the "world's best Loar F5... have you found any other mandolins or particular makers that you feel would be up to par with yours?

A - Well I don't know if it is the worlds best mando, but I sure like it. I feel extremely fortunate to own it. There are some others I think are particularly good. David Grisman's 1922 Loar is great. Aubrey Haynie had a fantastic 1925 unsigned F5. I once played the only Loar A5 and thought it was exceptional.

Charlie Derrington Guest of the Week March 9, 2003

Whew!! Five best Loars, huh? That's a tough one. OK

Grisman's 22 (I don't like most 22s and early 23s as they are mostly quartered backs and tend to be a little bright for my ear. Grisman's sounds like the best 23 to my ear).

Aubrey Haynie's unsigned 25. It's a real cannon. Bass, mids, trebles...Whatever you want, its got it.

My former July 9. Very heavy mids. Drives banjo players nutty. Cuts like a knife.

The former Don Brown Loar that now belongs to Frank Ray. That thing is phenominal.

Lonnie Porchie's Dec.11

markishandsome

Dec-10-2006, 11:21am

I've heard bill monroe had one of these that sounded alright. If not the best, certainly his is the most valuable and historically significant.

Glassweb

Dec-10-2006, 12:11pm

Well Hans, I can't really agree with what you say about the "bluegrass tone" being what Loars are about. It's certainly ONE of sounds we associate with Loars, and alot of them do indeed have that sound. But as a non-traditional player and Loar owner, I now realize that many of these instrument do not have that "classic" BG tone... and that's just fine. There are some amazing sounding Loars that are way more complex than one could ever hope for. I'm particularly partial to the ones that have an "orchestral", piano-like tone and brilliance. Must have been a particular guy at Gibson that created the carving for these. And some of my faves have Virzis... imagine that! But as far as the "best" sounding Loar... ah... that, my friends, is still in a closet somewhere... waiting to be free to sing to the world.

tattiemando

Dec-10-2006, 12:31pm

How does Ronnie McCoury's Loar compare to some of the afore mentioned mandolins. I heard Mr McCoury reckons its still got some opening up to do.

carleshicks

Dec-10-2006, 12:49pm

I played Ronnie's Loar about 2 month ago and It was very nice. When I played it I thought it was good but when it is being played at you it sound astounding (maybey that was because Ronnie was playing it). It looks as though it has been recently French Polished and it was hardly played before Ronnie got it so I am sure it has some opening up to do.

Hans

Dec-10-2006, 2:46pm

Well, Steven, I was, of course, being facetious, and made a sweeping generality. I know that most all bluegrass folks think Loar (red spruce/red maple) when they think of mandolins. I once saw/heard/played one so sweet that I at first thought it was German spruce.

carleshicks

Dec-10-2006, 2:49pm

it may have been. The 1920's Gibson Master Mandolin ad states that it uses the finest norwegian spruce for tops, no mention of Red spruce.

John Rosett

Dec-10-2006, 2:54pm

i've played 5 or 6 over the years, and the one that sticks in my mind is the A5.

Hans

Dec-10-2006, 6:19pm

Carles, I don't think it was German...when I recovered from the shock of sweetness (and thought complexity), and really started listening, I could hear the fundementalness associated with red spruce. I believe it was red. My experience with German spruce is that it has a very complex treble (and bass), and does not have what most folks attibute to Loars...that "bell-like" treble.

Glassweb

Dec-10-2006, 6:29pm

Got you covered Hans! If anyone can appreciate the differences/qualities in tone I know it's a builder like you. I don't know how you guys do it!

Hans

Dec-10-2006, 6:34pm

Steven I was born with a mandolin in my mouth. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

evanreilly

Dec-10-2006, 9:18pm

I will put in a vote, for a BG sound, for David McLaughlin's mandolin.

f5loar

Dec-11-2006, 12:45am

The William Place,Jr. June, '23 Loar is pretty nice. Monroe's July 9th '23(pre-bash)was pretty fantastic. And Dave Apollon's April '23 Loar rates up there but then so did any other F5 Dave put in his hands. The Skaggs Boone Creek/JDCrowe '24 Loar cuts nicely. '23 A5 rates high. And the worst one I ever played was pretty darn good!

Glassweb

Dec-11-2006, 1:54am

There's a guy named Tom that has a killer Fern Loar (with Virzi) from March 31, 1924. And can this guy PICK!

evanreilly

Dec-11-2006, 10:30am

"The Worst Loar"....
Maybe the one that came up for sale a few years ago that had been in a flood, and kept in the case... most all the seams separated. Loar in a box; not as bad as Monroe's two in a paper bag, but, a challenge to put back together successfully.
Any current pictures of that one after re-assembly out there?

mandopete

Dec-11-2006, 10:32am

Highly subjective question. I would vote for Reischman's Loar, but I truly believe it's the combination of the player and instrument and in some cases, the style of music played.

carleshicks

Dec-11-2006, 11:47am

"The Worst Loar"....
Maybe the one that came up for sale a few years ago that had been in a flood, and kept in the case... #most all the seams separated. #Loar in a box; not as bad as Monroe's two in a paper bag, but, a challenge to put back together successfully.
Any current pictures of that one after re-assembly out there?
I believe that Howie Banfield just had that one for sale on ebay a few months ago

testore

Dec-11-2006, 12:01pm

I thought "Crusher" was a 23 or 24. The 22 that Dawg owns is the one with the parrot painted on it isn't it?

ellisppi

Dec-11-2006, 1:54pm

Hal J's 23 I'd have bought it both times I had the chance if I'd had the money

sunburst

Dec-11-2006, 2:27pm

I will put in a vote, for a BG sound, for David McLaughlin's mandolin.
That one was my favorite until Reishman's.
Reishman's was my favorite until a friend brought his by for me to check out last year, and it became my new favorite in about 5 minutes. I think it's a '23.

I've only 'played' (ha!) a dozen or so, and I'm not a mandolin player, so just because one is my favorite, it don't mean nothin'. I don't think there could be a recognized 'best'. To many opinions.

grandmainger

Dec-11-2006, 5:59pm

Thanks for those great replies everyone. I didn't think there would be an overall winner, but it was worth asking http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Germain

Big Joe

Dec-12-2006, 12:28am

I've never played a bad one, only ones that needed some work to make them able to achieve thier potential. Out of the many I've played I believe my favorite is an April 25 1923 that belongs to Herschell Sizemore. It has the playability and tone that meets me right where I am. It is very close to my "Brutus". The December 20, 22 that Charlie had when he was killed is very close. Ronnie's mandolin is also an April 25, 23 and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that mandolin. It will stand on its own. There are so many good ones it is just hard to pick one, and my favorite may change any day but that one of Herschell's just has "it" in spades.

Glassweb

Dec-12-2006, 1:51am

Big Joe has it right... no way you can crown one Loar as "the best". All the great ones sound different and have their own distinctive charms.

Brian T

Dec-13-2006, 11:55am

Has anyone else noticed how Ronnie's style has changed since he has been picking the Loar? Not a bad thing, but I noticed the his playing seems more Monroe-ish.

f5loar

Dec-13-2006, 8:05pm

Good point! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

f5loar

Dec-13-2006, 8:09pm

Same thing happened to Skaggs when he got that July 9th Loar. It's the mystic of the Loar. In fact it changed Monroe's picking when he got his in 1945. Listen to the previous F7 recordings vs. the ones after 1945. Big difference.

JAK

Dec-13-2006, 11:35pm

I'll bet if you put 20 Loar "experts" in a room, blindfolded them, and then played 10 different name brands of mandolins with only one Loar, you'd get at least 10 different answers as to which one was a Loar. Didn't that happen awhile back at the Cafe with sound bites from different mandolins, and a "contest" as to which one was the Loar?

barry

Dec-14-2006, 7:35am

"I'll bet if you put 20 Loar "experts" in a room, blindfolded them, and then played 10 different name brands of mandolins with only one Loar, you'd get at least 10 different answers as to which one was a Loar. Didn't that happen awhile back at the Cafe with sound bites from different mandolins, and a "contest" as to which one was the Loar?"

I disagree. It would be much easier to pass a "find the Loar" test by playing the instruments than listening to a recording.

Brian Aldridge

Dec-14-2006, 9:23am

I will throw in with Big Joe about Herschell's April 25th. It is an incredible mandolin. The thing is, he has another April 25th with a consecutive serial number that is just as good. Tommy Isenhour's April 25th looks as if it were cut from the same trees, and sounds just as good.

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-14-2006, 3:39pm

As an aside to this discussion, if you own a Loar, it is very easy to become infactuated with the sound of someone else's. There is always one out there that you SEEM to think sounds better than yours. Many owners do not admit this of course which is why they can get trapped in the "Quest for the Best Loar". Most of these mandolins adapt to the technique and style of the person who owns and plays them for a lengthy period of time. This is evidenced by Monroes and Wakefields instruments, and to some degree Hershels. It has been said time and time that Monroe can make any mandolin sound good. By the same token, some players cannot bring the sound they want to hear out even if it is there.

With that said, there are differences in Loars and differences in the color and timbre that each ear associates with a Loar. So, there should be best sounding Loars that do not sound alike.

I really like the sound of mine and have played over 100 of them. I have not heard another that sounds exactly like it. But by the same token I am positive that many Loar owners/experts think it's a dud. So in many respects it's all relative. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or something like that)

Soupy1957

Dec-14-2006, 4:20pm

Glassweb

Dec-14-2006, 5:38pm

Very well put Darryl...

grandmainger

Dec-14-2006, 6:10pm

I really like the sound of mine and have played over 100 of them.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Darryl, that is just such a cool thing to say!

f5loar

Dec-14-2006, 9:07pm

I can see where Darryl is coming from. I too have played over 100 Loars and prefer mine over others, however there are quite a few others I wouldn't mind owning. Not they would be better sounding or playing then mine but different. As far as being cut from the same tree there is probably some factual bases for that in that you can spot the ones from the better trees. Loars can be graded like Sears paint: Good, Better and Best. The best ones come from the best trees assuming all other aspects of the making of them are the same.

carleshicks

Dec-14-2006, 10:46pm

I have only played 5 Loar's so I am no expert but the first Loar I played was 73725 a july 9 Loar that elderly had for sale a few years ago and it was the best mandolin I have ever played. Someone in canada bought it just a few days after I played it.
How does a person gauge a Mando being the "....best mandolin I ever played"http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

What features, feels, whatever, MADE it that, for you?

# -Soupy1957
The first thing that set it apart was it's projection, not just volume, It seemed to project clearer the harder I played it. It was very bell like in tone, The guy at the counter said that it was pushing alot of air in that little box. My dad said that the sound came twisting out at you from the F holes. Actually what I am saying is I have no idea how to describe it but that sound stuck in my head and I have been searching for it ever since. It was what made me decide to start building

Soupy1957

Dec-15-2006, 5:42am

Thanks for the clarification.."the sound." I figured the "sound" was a factor of course, but I was wondering if you would say things like the ease of slide on the neck, due to the finish on the wood; the feel of the fingers on the strings in relation to the fingerboard and frets; the way it laid under your right arm; etc...

-Soupy1957

Ken Waltham

Dec-15-2006, 7:01am

I haven't entered this discussion until now, because I sincerely feel there is no best Loar. I agree with Darryl's points that many are driven by the grass is greener syndrome, myself not excluded entirely.
When people talk about Reichman's Loar being the best, I have to smile. I think what you really have there is one of the best Players in the world.. playing an exquisite mandolin.
A point of interest, and I've told this story before.
My first Loar was a July 9, one serial number after Darryl's. To my ear, it was the best sounding Loar ever.. and I still feel that way to some degree.
Anyway, we did a blind test one day at Lynn Dudenbostel's house. A few Loars and a Fern, I think. We had a good player play them all, while the owners had thier backs turned.
Remember, every gig I had played, and we were doing lots of Bluegrass gigs then, I had played on this July 9. Plus, at home I couldn't leave the thing alone. I was obsessed with it.
Long story short, I couldn't tell my F5 from the others there, let alone say with confidence it was the best.
And, when I had two sidebounds and decided to sell one, all the concensus was that the other one I had sounded better.
I learned a couple of things there. One is that all Loars have a brother/family sound. Yes, some are different than others, but, to me at least, they're all related, like a family. They are more the same than different to my ear.
And second, what you think may be the best, is certainly not the feelings of everyone.
As Darryl says, the long term owner developes a relationship with the Loar, and learns how to bring out the best in both player and F5.
I am just home from a night shift and think I'll grab my prototypical sidebound June right now!

Oh, one more thing. As Soupy says above.. feel. To me, the physical feel of the mandolin, the neck wear, weight, touch, all that is really important, and could be a factor in many folks saying that "this is the best one". We hear a lot with our hands.

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-15-2006, 9:37am

Quote (carleshicks @ Dec. 10 2006, 08:27)
I have only played 5 Loar's so I am no expert but the first Loar I played was 73725 a july 9 Loar that elderly had for sale a few years ago

Yes Carles..to my ear, that mandolin is one of the best sounding Loars I have ever played too. That is the one I missed in a music store for $300 because they failed to get it out and show it. We only saw the 1950 F-12 which at $250 was too high. A friend bought the Loar the next day

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

tree

Dec-15-2006, 10:48am

One thing that may have been overlooked is that an instrument sounds different to the player standing behind it than it does to the audience out front. That might help explain anyone's inability to recognize their own instrument when played by someone else. #That, plus the difference in the players, and I think it is completely understandable.

The best sound to the player, if I'm the player, is the deciding factor for me.

Glassweb

Dec-15-2006, 11:01am

"We hear a lot with our hands"... good call Ken! You know, like any old instrument, electric or acoustic, alot of the "mojo" is about "the feel" of these instruments that new ones can't duplicate. Of course, in time the new ones will have their feel as well.

cgwilsonjr

Dec-18-2006, 3:37pm

The best sounding Loar mando(s) I ever heard was J. Reishman's and D. McLaughlin's. I saw/heard both of these guys play their Loars with other world-class pickers but those two were spine-tingling in their greatness (both the players and the mando). Chuck

Gary S

Dec-19-2006, 6:12am

I agree that Reichman tone is among the best I have ever heared. Having said that, his playing does not remind me of the classic dry tone that I associate with the Loar sound. Granted there is not one Loar sound, but there is to my ear a certain uniqueness that I associate with a Loar F-5
IMHO...Gary S

Lane Pryce

Dec-19-2006, 11:42am

I have always wondered why so few A5 Loars? I have never as so much held a Loar let alone had the opportunity to play one. Lp

Bob Simmers

Dec-21-2006, 2:19pm

I've only played a few and I am not an expert. But Herschel's mandolin that Big Joe mentioned is the best I've ever heard or played. Did you ever hear someone "just sing?" And then hear someone like John Cowan, who really knows how to project his voice, sing? That's that Loar of Herschel's. It's like nothing else. Microphones can increase volume, but that tone, that projection and resonance cannot be enhanced if the instrument lacks the right stuff. When I played those few songs on Herschel's mandolin the sound seemed to resonate off of the walls and furniture in his living room.
I got to play David McLaughlin's Loar at gettysburg last year. It was very hot and humid out but the Loar cut through all of that. It had that resonance that few instruments have. A super mandolin.
I've never even seen Grisman live, but listen to Tone Poems II. That mandolin sounds fantastic too.
The worst? I won't insult anyone. But a player at gettysburg about 10 years ago had one that was constantly out of tune, loud, but not a deep rich tone. Maybe it was the player but it sounded, I don't know, rickety, insulting. I was shocked when they said it was a Loar.