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artdeco
Dec-08-2006, 5:19pm
I just acquired an old L&H bowlback off ebay. I will post pictures when I get in the vicinity of my camera. It has issues. The stamp on the head block reads 217015. The label is a leather tag with no date and the entire inside of the mando is lined with some sort of brownish paper. Can anyone estimate a date for its birth?

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 5:43pm
Is it <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-ANTIQUE-ROUND-BACK-MANDOLIN-BY-LYON-HEALY-CHICAGO_W0QQitemZ280055005024QQihZ018QQcateg
oryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">this one</a>?

http://i13.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/7b/7a/8802_1.JPG

Jim

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 5:51pm
Interesting that none of the catalogs I have show a L&H brand mandolin. The mid-range mandolins that this resembles were labelled American Conservatory and had a simpler headstock. Also, my detective work shows a Regal (Wulschner brand from Indianapolis) with that style of headstock and a stamped wood "label" that your seller might have thought was leather (maybe it was). I wonder if there is a connection -- that Wulschner possibly built some of these for Lyon & Healy.

Jim

artdeco
Dec-08-2006, 5:51pm
Exactly. I will take more detailed pictures this evening.

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 5:53pm
Here is a detail of the label of that Regal.

Jim

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 5:56pm
You may have a time finding those inset tuners. They are hard to come by esp finding the right ones that fit.

What other issues do you see in this one?

Jim

artdeco
Dec-08-2006, 6:03pm
The fretboard, obviously. It is not very clear in the ebay picture, but the fretboard is broken in two and some pieces of wood are missing, so new fretboard is a must. The front center seam has separated, but it looks fairly clean. Should not be a huge problem to put that right.

You are right Jim, tuners will be the most challenging thing to rectify.

MML
Dec-08-2006, 10:49pm
Hey Jim,

Are those Handel tuners on that Regal? And who would you suspect made the Regals of that quality.

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 11:16pm
Regal/Wulschner (in Indianapolis) was not the same company at that time as the Regal (Chicago). They generally made high quality instruments. Samuel Siegel, the virtuoso mandolin player endorsed these Regals.

Jim

Jim Garber
Dec-08-2006, 11:21pm
Here is a photo of Siegel. I believe he is holding a Regal mandolin.

Jim

Eugene
Dec-09-2006, 12:00am
I used to own one of those Lyon & Healy (L&H) mandolins. They were really entry-level, of a bit lesser calibre than the American Conservatory line. In mine, the label was a simple rectangle that said nothing more than "Lyon & Healy, Chicago" or similar. The headstock is also a little different in profile from the old Wulschner-made Regal brand in not having a crest at the top. The headstock veneer is probably some kind of ebonized mystery wood that tends towards brittleness. Mine had a slip-cover tailpiece, not like the nice hinged ones L&H used on their Washburn brand.

I believe the Wulschner-made Regals were the same brand as the later Chicago Regal, but made by very different manufacturers. If I recall correctly, the name was sold to L&H in 1904 or '08, shortly after the Wulschner patriarch died. What L&H actually did with the brand name is a bit nebulous. Regal later surfaced in Chicago independent from L&H. If somebody has a better recollection, I'm happy to receive correction.

Eugene
Dec-09-2006, 12:02am
Yeah, I just looked it up at Blue Book (https://store.bluebookinc.com/). That Regal story is about right.

artdeco
Dec-09-2006, 12:34am
a few pictures of the victim - er, mandolin..

artdeco
Dec-09-2006, 12:36am
and....

artdeco
Dec-09-2006, 12:38am
and...

artdeco
Dec-09-2006, 12:41am
finally....
I didn't get a picture of the headstock, but it does look to be dyed mystery wood.

Martin Jonas
Dec-09-2006, 5:09am
Artdeco: much as it pains me to say it, my advice would be to forget about restoring. This is not a particularly valuable bowlback to start with and the repairs (unless you want to do them yourself as a hobby) will be much more costly and time-consuming than the going price for, say, a Washburn or an American Conservatory in decent playable condition. Just for sourcing the tuners, you'll have to buy another basket case off Ebay. Then you'll need an entirely new fretboard (pre-slotted ones from a luthier supply won't fit), bridge and tailpiece, and of course the crack repair.

Martin

Eugene
Dec-09-2006, 9:26am
Thanks to freely floating bridges, you can be a little flexible with fitting fingerboards. If you saw a pre-slotted fingerboard off at the first fret, the remainder should work pretty well. The width would require adjustment as well. Still, Martin is correct; this will cost more to repair than the price of a functional piece of a nicer L&H brand.

Eugene
Dec-09-2006, 9:33am
I don't know if this applies to this model, but suspect it does. L&H lined their Washburn mandolin bowls in tan paper from 1897-1915. I suspect these were mostly made in that later period, maybe ca. 1910-1915 or so.

artdeco
Dec-09-2006, 10:48am
I do build mandolins and planned on doing the work myself. I did not expect this mandolin was particularly valuable, but I would like to get it into playing condition. That said, the most challenging part is still finding a lead on tuners that will work on it. Any suggestions in that area would be much appreciated.

Thanks for all your input.