Tell us about your kentucky mandolin

[Caleb]

ive just about decided that Kentucky is going to be the instrument i get when i take the plunge in a few weeks (hopefully days). these seem to simply be the most beast for the buck.

anyway.... #thought it would be nice to have a whole thread devoted to Kentuckys.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[big h]

I love my km-630.but i want something else

[Eric F.]

Hmmm, didn't I tell you about my Kentucky in a thread where you were wondering about inexpensive, solid wood mandolins? Ah well, I guess I'll tell you again. Look for a solid-wood one. People speak highly of the 380. I've noticed no consistent difference between the 380s and 250s I've played. I have noticed that I consistently dislike the 140, 620 and 630, all of which are, I believe, laminated. I see no point in paying more than the cost of the 250, but others will disagree. I would get the 250 and immediately have the rosewood bridge replaced with an ebony one from Cumberland Acoustic. This will make your mandolin sound better and you'll still be around $300. I'd buy from a reputable online dealer like Elderly, where I got mine, or in a store where you can try them out. I asked the sales guy at Elderly to please pick me one that didn't sound tinny. He did.

I have had a KM-250 for several years. More expensive mandolins have come and gone during that time. The Kentucky stays because I couldn't get nearly what it's worth - TO ME - out of it and if I sold it, I'd just have to replace it with another beater that would be unlikely to sound as good. It sounds pretty good, it's loud, it stays in tune and if it got crushed beneath a giant roller bag on an airplane or someone spilled a beer on it on a camping trip, well, I'd care, but I wouldn't be heart-broken. So it's the perfect beater, travel, lend-to-your-curious-friends mandolin. In fact, one of my student workers has it on loan right now.

The tone lacks the richness of my Pomeroy, the resonance of my Arches. But so what? After four or five years of getting the snot played out of it it's woody and loud and open sounding. It would make an excellent starter mandolin. I'd still recommend a good flattop over it, but one of those will cost you about twice as much.

As a footnote, some of the old Japanese-made Kentuckys rocked. I had an '87 KM-1000 that was a monster. Still is, according to the Cafe member who now owns it. They tend to go for quite a bit more - a Japanese KM-1500 just sold for a penny shy of $2700 on eBay.

[Caleb]

Eric -- yes, i think you posted about yours in another thread, and, again, your input was very helpful....thanks. guess im just wanting to hear from all who own or have owned a kentucky. im leaning toward the K150S, and i'll likely buy from elderly. been chatting with a very helpful salesperson from there and they seem to know their stuff. the free shipping and free setup seem like its going to be hard to beat. i will give EM Shorts a fair shot at my dime, since theyve ALWAYS been good to me in the past. the K150S is probably all i'll need for quite some time, at least to learn on. i know its not going to be the "best", but as long as its setup good and holds tune and has decent tone, i'll be happy.

[fwoompf]

They can certainly sound just fine (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~garnetb/oldtimeimprov.mp3) but I suspect you will learn to loathe the tuners.

Mine's been a trooper but I can't wait for my forthcoming Newell A model...should be here before Christmas!

(I apologize for my shoddy picking)

[Eric F.]

Slacker, Elderly does a good job with setups.

Garnet, I've never had a problem with the tuners, In fact, they're identical to the tuners Breedlove uses on the Quartz line and I've had three of them with no complaints. All the same, I suspect you'll find the Newell is, ummm, a rather significant upgrade!

[cooper4205]

my 380 would stay in tune for weeks; i'm with eric i think the solid-wood a-styles kentucky has are great mandolins for the price. once i added an ebony bridge and got a good set up it was good enough to get me addicted to the mandolin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Caleb]

does an ebony bridge really make that much difference?

also, how much does changing the nut to a quality material help?

if its not that costly, i think i may go ahead and have elderly (or whoever i buy from) go ahead and do it when i purchase.

[pettyman]

I love my 380. Does everything I can at the moment and I can still grow into it a lot. The only reason I consider upgrading is simply envy!!!

Lovely tone, good action, stays in tune. Very very playable!

Matt

[Martin Jonas]

I bought a 380s from TAMCO for my mother (who's been playing mandolins for five decades), and it's really nice. Easy to play, quite loud, full tone. She's been playing it for two years and is very happy. No problems with the tuners. Tailpiece cover was a bit loose and rattling to start with, but I've fixed that.

Martin

[Stephen Perry]

KM-150S has a 12 fret neck joint, KM250 & above have the 15 fret neck joint. I had a couple of KM380S that were very nice after setup. Considering the modest price. Were I looking for a beater, I'd also look at the top end Rover and try to see a Johnson Louisville. Once above about $400, I'd look into other options.

Any of these low end mandolins I've seen have cheesy bridges that rarely fit. Often I don't like the nuts and necks. So they're a good deal more work than most of the more expensive ones. I've seen bunches of them coming through for improvement. Usually replace the bridge.

Were I to want a camping mandolin, I'd consider the KM250 and KM380, the Louisville, and the Rover. Probably run around at NAMM and look at everything comparable. Pick three. Set them all up with good bridge, good strings etc. Pick the one I liked best, sell the others. Then shape the neck, fix anything else I didn't like, and optimize it. That's the rub with the starter models. They take as much or more work to get into the shape I like as the more expensive mandolins do.

[Soupy1957]

My KM 620B played fine and I wish I had never sold it!
-Soupy1957

[wichitamando]

I bought my 380 from EM Shorts a few years ago. After their luthier did a good setup, it has been awesome. I believe the guy's name is Brian. He builds mandolins on the side and seems to really know what he is doing.

[Usonian]

I had a KM-150s that sounded great; it had a real bluegrassy bark to it. The action was too high on mine, though, and that was with the bridge adjusted as low as it could go without actually sanding it down. (I didn't really know any better when I got it, assuming that my left hand hurt mostly because of the double, high-tension strings.) I'm sure Elderly would take good care of you there - I've never dealt with them but I've heard nothing but good things about their attention to setup.

Edit: For the record, mine was a recent one (2004) made in China.

[Doug Edwards]

does an ebony bridge really make that much difference?

also, how much does changing the nut to a quality material help? #

if its not that costly, i think i may go ahead and have elderly (or whoever i buy from) go ahead and do it when i purchase.
A properly fitted ebony bridge can make a huge difference. A bone or pearl nut will help produce clarity and some volume on the open strings.

The KM250 we hot rodded had an absolutely awful bridge and setup. The bridge was pure junk and the neck angle too shallow which made fitting the new bridge more of a challenge to get the action lower. All and all it turned out pretty good after working it over.

KM250 thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=38739)

[Jim MacDaniel]

Re my KM-250S (my beater/traveler)...

Pros:
+ Good fit and finish
+ After a good setup, it is very easy to play
+ It stays in tune well
+ The (slightly) radiused fretboard feels good in my hands
+ Its tone and volume are decent for the price
+ I really like its dark burgundy finish color (I'm not a big fan of traditional sunburst finishes ;)
+ Overall, it makes for a great starter, traveler, or beater -- and IMHO is a smarter way to go, compared to paying the upcharge for an assembly-line F-Style that may play and sound comparable

Cons:
- While it plays and sounds nice for the money, it still plays and sounds like the assembly-line instrument that it is
- Considering the small price I paid for it, I can't justify spending an equal amount or more in upgrades, that might only yield a marginal improvement in performance (dam# that finance class I took back in college! ;)

Disclaimer: when it comes to assembly line instruments, user results and satisfaction may vary from instrument to instrument. I bought mine on eBay for $86, so I felt couldn't go wrong if it turned out to be a dog; however, when buying at full retail prices, it's safer to test drive before you buy.

11/17 update: mine is a Chinese made KM-250S, and though I haven't played its Japan-era or Korea-era counterparts, I am impressed with its quality:dollar ratio.

[mandomadman]

I'm a big fan of the early Japanese era Kentuckys. IMO they were made better with better materials and many of them produced incredible tone. They are very sought after these days and the prices just keep going up and up. I've owned and played many of the newer Korean and now Chinese models and they are not very consistant in sound or quality. When Saga (parent company) moved production to China the quality took a nose dive at first. Necks and fretboards were glued on crooked, headstocks would break off at the glue joint ect. I'd watch out for this era. The quality has gotten better in the last few years though. I currently own and play daily an early KM-DAWG model. Only 48 of these were made in a seperate facility in Japan by master builder Sumi along with the KM-1500s. I love my DAWG it sounds like a Mando built in the early 20s. The newer 250s, 380s ect. are a good value for the money but they are what they are. I think when it comes to 'inexpensive' mandos I'd try as many as I could no matter what the name on the headstock, as many pac rim instruments are inconsistant and tinny cardboard box sounding. But I've run into a few under $400 that were surprisingly good.

[Caleb]

any advantages/disadvantes to having a 12 fret neck joint, such as the K150S? actually, i'd not noticed that until reading this thread and then looking again at pics. i actually like a 12 fret joint in guitars, seems to allow for more sustain on open strings.

[EdSherry]

Over the years, I've picked up a number of lower-end A-style Kentuckies (KM-160s, -180s, -250s), some the older Japanese-made, others Korean-made. #I have a bunch out on loan at the moment to friends and students who are interested in learning to play.

When they first came out, they were the best-value beginner mandos available (IMHO). #Tone is fine, though thin compared to my better(but much-higher-priced) mandos. #Necks and action are generally pretty good.

The move from Japan to Korea initially seemed to me to involve a reduction in quality, but not much, and many of the Korean-made ones I've played were as good as the Japanese-made ones. #That said, the Japanese-made ones tend to be more sought after.

Since then, other brands have become available from the same manufacturing facilities, and the advantages of Kentuckies over the competition have eroded.

On a value-for-money basis, I always thought their A-style instruments were better value than their F-styles. #Many of the "mid priced" Kentucky F's cut corners on sound quality in order to add the fancy scroll.

I haven't played many of the new Chinese-made ones, and can't really comment on the quality.

IMHO, they're generally as good if not better quality than "the competition" at the same price points. #They're not an Eastman or a Gibson.

As for whether it's worth upgrading (nut, bridge, tuners, etc.) -- I personally think you do better to spend a bit more up-front for a better instrument than to spend money in labor-intensive after-market retrofitting. #Fitting a better bridge and a new nut will typically improve the sound, but it'll cost you $100 or so, and that money would generally (in my view) be better spent on buying a better instrument in the first place.

That said, I strongly agree that it is worth having the instrument set up properly.

[45ACP-GDLF5]

I have a KM-1000 that was built by Sumi in 1980. I purchased it in '87 and it is a great sounding mando. I've kept in good shape except for the finish cracking here and there.{I hate that} I've had the frets dressed and all the hardware polished up nice. I still have the original rectangular Superior Case which was made after the early Gibson cases. Pockets and slots everywhere. The Korean models are junk. I believe they are now made in China and are of better quality. My mandolin teacher of 20+ years ago still has a Japanese made KM-250 that is a hoss. He bought it back in '86 or '87. If you can find a good used one from the 80's you won't be disappointed.

[Caleb]

ed -- thanks for the insight. i always enjoy your posts. i had no idea that the bridge/nut upgrade was $100. and for that much more money, i think you are correct, it would be better spent and a better instrument in the first place.

question: if you only did one upgrade (bridge or nut) which one would be more important and change the overall quality of the instrument more?

thanks.

[EdSherry]

Fitting a new nut is about $30-$40 where I live (SF Bay Area -- it's less expensive elsewhere, but then again just about everything is!). #

You can get inexpensive new bridges for $10-$15 or so, but they're no improvement over the stock bridge. #A better new bridge (e.g., the ones that Cumberland Acoustic makes) will cost you $50, and will need to be fitted to the top (another $25-30 to do it properly).

If you were only going to do one, I'd recommend the bridge replacement over the nut replacement. #(Others may have had different experiences.)

[EdSherry]

Slacker -- If you're contemplating buying from Elderly, ask them their advice. They're good people to deal with, in my experience.

[Caleb]

Slacker -- If you're contemplating buying from Elderly, ask them their advice. #They're good people to deal with, in my experience.
alright, thats what i'll do. thanks

[Brad Weiss]

I have a KM675, Chinese-made, and, while I have upgraded, it is the best mando under 1k I've ever played. #I like lighter strings on it, for my style of play, but it has a really nice growly chop with heavier strings if that's what you want. #It's well balanced, stays in tune, no tinniness (which I hate). #I prefer a radius fretboard, but even this flatboard is playable. #Its loud, not much sustain, but not dead either. #For its price, can't beat it- but do try to play the very one you buy as they have a LOT of variabilty. #Not to incite anyone's ire, but I've never heard an MK or an Eastman I liked as well. #For $500 you should be able to find a decent, used, all-solid wood mandolin that will serve you well for years.

[Joe F]

My KM-200S is an early-1980s Japanese-built instrument. #It was very well set up when I bought it in 1982, and has never needed any further adjustment. #With a mahogany back and sides, it's somewhat warmer sounding that a maple instrument, but since I play more old-time than bluegrass, that's not really an issue.

My only complaints have been the tuners (some are very stiff and hard to turn) and the overall volume. #To fix the latter, a local luthier made a graphite bridge saddle that dramatically increased the volume. #The cost was around $20. #I'd like to replace the tuners eventually, and possibly the plastic nut, but for now it's a solid workhorse with very good sound.

I'd also like to eventually upgrade to a better instrument and keep this one as a campfire beater, but that's not financially feasible at present.

[steve V. johnson]

A friend asked me to sell her KM160s for her, so it's here at my house. I thought I'd have to do a setup on it, but it's really just fine, so put new strings on it and I took some pix and put an ad here on the Classifieds, then moved it to eBay at her request.

This is probably a 2000 model, Korean-made and I'm told that the "s" designation means that it's all solid woods.

While -if I were to keep it around- I'd love to change the bridge, the nut and the tailpiece,I'm always amazed at how good it sounds. Yes, next to a handmade mandolin, it's 'thin,' but with my favorite Golden Gate pick and some concious effort, I can make it sound good enough to make me feel really good about it. Great fun.

I'll be a little sorry to see it go...

stv

[Bob Denton]

I inadvertantly left my 380s in the back of my CRV for two weeks while travelling. It was parked in my driveway in the Santa Cruz Mountains, cold nights and warm days.

It was still in tune when I retrieved it.

Great little mando!

Cya!

Bob

[Caleb]

A friend asked me to sell her KM160s for her, so it's here at my house. #I thought I'd have to do a setup on it, but it's really just fine, so put new strings on it and I took some pix and put an ad here on the Classifieds, then moved it to eBay at her request.

This is probably a 2000 model, Korean-made and I'm told that the "s" designation means that it's all solid woods. #

While -if I were to keep it around- I'd love to change the bridge, the nut and the tailpiece,I'm always amazed at how good it sounds. # Yes, next to a handmade mandolin, it's 'thin,' but with my favorite Golden Gate pick and some concious effort, I can make it sound good enough to make me feel really good about it. #Great fun.

I'll be a little sorry to see it go...

stv
yeah, im following that auction. you are a great photographer and putting that woman in the ad doesnt hurt either.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Keith Owen]

They can certainly sound just fine but I suspect you will learn to loathe the tuners.

Mine's been a trooper but I can't wait for my forthcoming Newell A model...should be here before Christmas!

(I apologize for my shoddy picking)

fwoompf - your pickin' is just fine. I'd like to hear you pick the same piece again when you get your Newell - you'll be amazed at the difference.

[steve V. johnson]

the slacker wrote: "yeah, im following that auction. you are a great photographer and putting that woman in the ad doesnt hurt either."

Thanks for the nice compliment. I enjoy taking pix of the instruments that come by here. That mandolin's one owner is a woman and we've found that putting a picture of a person (either gender) using the item that's for sale really helps to sell things.

Thanks,

stv

[tattiemando]

I have got a KM675, It is loud mandolin. It suits bluegrass .I put j75's on it it growls, I traded my Fender (A) model for it at Rocky Grass. The adjustable bridge is as high as it can go. It suits my style. Though I am getting a new mandolin soon. I have already got other pickkers intrested in buying my KM675 from me.

[Wadefox]

I had a KM250 early on in my mandolin playing. I thought it was a good instrument for themoney. My only problem was that a hook on my tailpiece broke, and I had to replace the tailpiece.

[ira]

i have a ky150s -my first mando- it did what it needed to do. inexpensive, decent sound, decent action- nothing special, but good enough to learn on and enjoy without being frustrating due to the instrument's qualities.
it is my beater now- haven't sold it as prob not worth much, but great for camping, playing with my students or lending to a guitar player who wants to explore mando-
nuff said.

[Yuletide]

I have a Japanese-made Kentucky 250SC. Well made, very nice tone, though quieter and softer than f-hole models, not bluegrassy.

My only real complaint is that since the current generation Kentucky 250S sells for way below the $500 I paid for my 250SC in the early 1990's, I don't think I'd be able to get much out of it on resale. On the other hand, since I don't plan to sell it, I guess that doesn't matter.