Cheap all solid wood mandolins

[Caleb]

been reading like mad on all of this stuff. im seeing that kentucky offers a line of all solid wood mandolins for really cheap.

but.....does all solid wood really mean quality? isnt it possible to use really lousy wood and it still be solid? the main red flag for me is that they dont use anything but burst finishes. i know from my experience with guitars that sometmies paint is used to hide cheap and ugly wood. is this what kentucky is doing?

just wondering how an all solid wood box can be so cheap. mass-production to keep costs down? or are they skimping on the final touches and hardware? something has to be giving for these kind of prices, right?

[JEStanek]

Those all solid wood Kentucky's aren't hand carved, are mass produced, have a thicker finish and seem to be good starters once set up properly. Cost is lower b/c the wood isn't wicked flashy, it's an A style, and they're made where labor is less expensive. Do a search on the Kentucky 380S there are many satisfied buyers.

Typically people get a bit more out of them with nut and bridge changes to better materials.

Jamie

[moku9]

I've read that solid wood will change in tone over time while laminates will sound as new throughout the instruments life. I would avoid laminated tops as they have a reputation of collapsing under the string pressure.

[Caleb]

I've read that solid wood will change in tone over time while laminates will sound as new throughout the instruments life. #I would avoid laminated tops as they have a reputation of collapsing under the string pressure.
true in some cases. i have an all lam guitar that sounded phenominal when i bought it and it sounds even better now. #

im mainly just trying to get to the bottom of how an all-solid-wood mandolin can be this cheap? #crummy tuners? cheap bridge? #lousy finish?

the kentuckys sure look pretty in the ads, i know that much.

[Eric F.]

I have a Kentucky 250. I've had it for maybe five years. It's not burst, by the way. I'm not sure how a burst hides wood, really, but I agree with you about sunbursts on cheap instruments - they look ridiculous. The 250 is almost brown and that hides the lack of figure in the maple. Lack of figure does not correlate with the wood's tonal properties, which I guess you know, but just in case. ...

Anyway, it's a decent mandolin. I bought it from Elderly, which set it up nicely. About a year later I put a better bridge on it and had it set up by a wizard. Whatever he did, it played like a dream after it. It does seem to have a pretty thick finish, and I used steel wool to take some of it off the back.

I bought it as a second mando, but hard times forced me to make it my only mando for a while. I've played it a lot and I've lent it to friends for months at a time now that I have others to play. So it's been played heavily and it sounds like it. It's loud and open sounding, without the tinny tone I associate with cheap instruments. For $250, I can't imagine you'd do better.

The tone is kind of one-dimensional compared to my other mandolins, but they cost quite a bit more. I don't think a Kentucky 250 or 380 will give you the richness of tone a $500 flattop will, but then they don't cost $500 and they do have F holes if that's what you fancy.

[Eric F.]

im mainly just trying to get to the bottom of how an all-solid-wood mandolin can be this cheap? crummy tuners? cheap bridge? lousy finish?

Mass produced ini China by workers who make low wages compared to what Western workers get. I think that's the main thing. Saga tuners are inexpensive but work quite well in my experience. Heck, Breedlove uses them on the Quartz. The fretboard is rosewood, as is the bridge. I imagine the nut is plastic.

[mandroid]

Profitable to import from China, as labor intensive products cost less if the person doing the work don't get squat. assembly and binding difficult to automate.
Then add investing in a lot of automation to produce the parts that get put together.
Also big container ships are the least costly way to move goods

[Caleb]

I'm not sure how a burst hides wood, really, but I agree with you about sunbursts on cheap instruments - they look ridiculous.
well, i know in gutiars, especially electric guitars, the really dark part of the burst if often uses to hid the fact that multiple pcs of wood were used in making the body, when the customer thinks they're getting a solid wood body. and cheap acoustics lots of times slap on a thick layer of glossy paint to hide the crummy wood used in building the guitar.

granted, i'd rather have good souding wood than pretty wood anyday.

elderly told me they would set up a kentucky mandolin as part of the purchase price. i wouldnt mind doing a setup, but as far as buying new parts, i would not. i'd just get a better instrument to begin with.

thanks for the info.

[mandroid]

FWIW , I made a quick link to the classifieds section , and there are mentions in new section of Eastman 505, and a picture. and a store telephone number, to chat.
From what I learned from the cafe, here, Eastman is shipping instruments which the builder, over there, is working on same instrument start to finish, with smaller production and more hand finishing. cafe reviews indicate the folks that bought them seem happy with their purchases.

[Walter Newton]

Mandroid, keep in mind the Eastmans are a good bit more expensive than the Kentuckys the original poster asked about as well.

[chinatogalway]

The Older KENTUCKY mandolins were actually made in JAPAN, I have a 180s A5 made in Japan on the cafe, .......surely there must big a big difference between those made in Japan than those in China or north korea http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?

but I would ask that since I am selling one ha ha ha ha

Kieron

[mandroid]

in that case going for one brand, If you were to find a shop with a dozen of them then one of them may be superior to the others, as wood is a variable material even if the production machinery makes all the parts the same
Saga in California is the importer of the 'Kentucky ' brand, to the container port of Oakland
if near by, or trucked north from Long Beach POE..

[Stephen Perry]

The Kentucky mandolins I've had through haven't been as variable as some of the other mandolin lines at that price point, or even over it. Some are much tighter than others. I've taken to loosening these up quite a bit with plate flexing and vibration. Gets them noticably less stiff.

The bridges are a bit cheesy. I've replaced a couple and really noticed an improvement.

My favorite is the KM150S. Doesn't cost much at all and works just fine with a bit of setup.

And of course, there are many Rover fans out there.

[catmandu2]

I also like the 150. I also got a 340 and 380 for $100 each on ebay; granted, the builder and importer didn't make much money on the deal. One was shipped with such an inferiorly fit bridge that it had a pronounced concave curve along the saddle--seemed like it was sold right off the ship. But they're fine for the $.

[Bob Denton]

Profitable to import from China, as labor intensive #products cost less if the person doing the work don't get squat. #assembly and binding difficult to automate.
Then add investing in a lot of automation to produce the parts that #get put together.
Also big container ships are the least costly way to move goods
He also doesn't pay squat because the costs of most things in China are relative to the labor costs.

Cya!

[steve V. johnson]

First the Kentuckys were made in Japan, then Korea, now I hear they are made in China.

Here's a nice, solid wood Kentucky A-style for auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....=1&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200047059741&rd=1&rd=1)

stv

[acousticphd]

The KY mandos (at least the A styles and lower end F styles) became Chinese-made 4-5 years ago. I had a 380S from about the last year they were Korean made, which cost about $350 at the time and was really pretty good. At that time and for a while after that, there were a lot of posts and opinions offered that the Korean-made ones were better than after the switch to Chinese mfr.. What is definitely true is that the prices went down, not up. If you're interested in a KY, I think it's worth paying a little more for the 340S or 380S - plenty of lightly used ones come up for sale for ~$250 or less. Compared to the entry level models, they have definitely better quality tuners, a more traditional A5-style look, and imo sound a bit nicer.

[Jim MacDaniel]

The Older KENTUCKY mandolins were actually made in JAPAN, I have a 180s A5 made in Japan on the cafe, .......surely there must big a big difference between those made in Japan than those in China or north korea http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?...
They were actually made in South Korea, but I imagine were North Korea get into the business, their instruments would be "the bomb". #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[F5G WIZ]

I've read that solid wood will change in tone over time while laminates will sound as new throughout the instruments life. #
Yes that may be true, (sounds like a salesmans pitch to me)but that is what they are supposed to do. Solid hand carved mandolins have what they commonly call an "opening up period" I'm glad my mando's don't sound the same as when they were new. Both have opened up and now have great Mid and Low tones. The solid wood thing isn't always what it seems. Many cheap builders of instruments as well as furniture will advertise as solid wood and many of them consider laminated boards (plywood) as solid wood, which in a since they are "solid" anything other than particle board is considered solid to some people. I think what you are looking for when you hear the word solid wood is wood that is one solid board, not laminated.
Many of the cheaper overseas mandos are simply steamed and pressed plywood. All of one thickness and not graduated or tap tested for tone. Once again it's all in what you want and how much you want to spend.

[Caleb]

seems like this could border on "false advertising" since i know kentucky is advertising their K150S as an "all solid wood" instrument. solid spruce on top and solid maple on the back and sides. #ppl expect SOLID, and not some "version" of solid.

[F5G WIZ]

I would agree and I would have to see this Mandolin to determine if it was actually solid carved wood, at the price in which they sell thier products I would have to say that they are probably laminated. It all comes down to the definition of solid wood. To the best of my knowledge and I may be wrong but about the best deal on a solid handcarved mandolin that you will find, and I'm not counting some of the small builders that are around the country, would probably be Eastman. There are some small builders out there that sell them for around the price you can get an Eastman but not very many.

[epicentre]

First the Kentuckys were made in Japan, then Korea, now I hear they are made in China.

Here's a nice, solid wood Kentucky A-style for auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....=1&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200047059741&rd=1&rd=1)

stv
I took a gander at the one on e.bay, and lo and behold, it looks EXACTLY like my Epiphone, except my head stock says "The Epiphone" instead of "Kentucky".

Who woulda thunk it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Same factory?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[cooper4205]

the make a KM-140s with a solid top and laminate back and the KM-150s is all-solid


Saga Music- Kentucky Mandolins (http://sagamusic.com/catalog/products.asp?CategoryID=2&FamilyID=3&BrandID=20)


also, looks like saga is revamping the kentucky line.

[Leevon DeCourley]

If your not sold on a Kentucky. I would look into a J Bovier. They are all solid and also sound good. i have owned two and both were great mandos they are all solid wood and you can get one for around 700.

[Caleb]

If your not sold on a Kentucky. I would look into a J Bovier. They are all solid and also sound good. i have owned two and both were great mandos they are all solid wood and you can get one for around 700.
sounds good, but a bit too steep for the slacker.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[cooper4205]

i've seen used eastman 505's for under $400 (or right at it) lately. the mandolin store had one for $379 the other day

[Jim Broyles]

Slacker, I just took possession of a Fullerton Gloucester. I was a bit skeptical about what it would sound like, although I loved the look of it. It was $269.00 delivered and according to a Cafe member whom I regard very highly, he was "astonished" at how good it sounds for the price. It is an all solid plain jane F style, kind of modeled, or so it seems after the Gibson F9.

[Caleb]

Slacker, I just took possession of a Fullerton Gloucester. I was a bit skeptical about what it would sound like, although I loved the look of it. It was $269.00 delivered and according to a Cafe member whom I regard very highly, #he was "astonished" at how good it sounds for the price. It is an all solid plain jane F style, kind of modeled, or so it seems after the Gibson F9.
many thanks for the heads up on Fullerton. #until now I'd not even noticed them. #they seem like a good deal and I really do not want a burst finish. I'll keep my eyes peeled for these on ebay. #

thanks....

BTW, whats the scoop on Fullerton? I can't even find a website for them. they must be some knock-off brand...but its weird for them to not even have a homepage?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[mandomadman]

Just visited the Saga web site. It does look like Saga has revamped the Kentucky line. New models, plus it looks like the Km-1000(top of their line) has been re-introduced, upgraded and is also being hand carved.

[cooper4205]

i'd like to see what the oval-hole mandolins they're coming out with look like, hopefully they'll re-introduce the flat-tops, too

[mandomadman]

I'm kind of excited about these new models and improvments to their current models. I wonder if the success of Eastman lit a fire under them. I've got an old Japanese KM-Dawg that is all handmade and sounds sooo good. It has tonal properties that remind me of a Loar era Gibson. I know that's a mighty bold statement but it's true. I owned a couple Km-675s that were from the first batches out of China and man o man they were bad. Figerboard glued on crooked on one. The headstock broke off all by itself on the other because of that stupid glued on headstock design so many pac rim producers started endorsing. I'm hoping this new KM-1000 will be every bit as good as the ones they made in the 80's Japan era.

[Dixieland]

I paid $200.00 three years ago for my Kentucky 150S. It was very hard to fret, so I’ve learned on this mando, lowered the strings at the bridge, still tough to fret, so I lowered the bottom of the nut 1mm...WOW! It became a joy to play. More than once I’ve been playing in a Bluegrass/Old time jam when someone has commented on how loud my mando is, then say “do you mind if I try it?” I have since
bought a Eastman 515 which is also a dream to fret and the “tone” is richer. But I still play weekly the
Kentucky for the different sound it has (woody?)

[jasona]

I paid $200.00 three years ago for my Kentucky 150S. It was very hard to fret, so I’ve learned on this mando, lowered the strings at the bridge, still tough to fret, so I lowered the bottom of the nut 1mm...WOW! It became a joy to play. More than once I’ve been playing in a Bluegrass/Old time jam when someone has commented on how loud my mando is, then say “do you mind if I try it?” I have since
bought a Eastman 515 which is also a dream to fret and the “tone” is richer. But I still play weekly the
Kentucky for the different sound it has (woody?)
Me too, although I had the nut slots taken down by the shop I bought it from (12th Fret), and I also shaved down the bridge saddle to lower the action more. Played great, sounded decent, a great mandolin to learn on.