Pick guard cement

[brianf]

I have a piece of flexible, clear, soft plastic, that I want to apply to the top of my matte-finish mando (Weber).

1. Would it have a bad effect on tone or volume? #The area would only be about 2X2, and located opposite the fingerboard extension.

2. #What kind of stickum can I use, that would not injure the very thin lacquer finish, and that could be easily removed?

[Rick Turner]

The best is called transfer tape. With this stuff, you actually transfer a layer of self stick adhesive to the pickguard via a backer, then peel away the backing sheet. You now have a perfectly even layer of adhesive...and no tape...on your pickguard. Then attach to the instrument top. LMI sells the stuff; 3M makes it. But I'm not sure how transparent it is. You might be better off getting some of the self stick mylar clear pickguard material that StewMac sells. Follow the directions, even though it seems totally weird.

[Paul Hostetter]

The clear pickguard material is available in most good art supply places in varying thicknesses and is sold for laminating artwork. It has the same 3M transfer tape stuff on the back that you can buy by the roll. And when it's pre-applied, it comes out quite clear, as long as it's going down over a dead-smooth lacquered surface. Any dings or divots will show as air bubbles. It has little if any effect on sound, and is very easy to remove with naphtha. It doesn't need to be as thick as you might think in order to provide good protection.

[brianf]

Thanks for the tips. I wondered if anyone here has actually tried this on a mando.

[EdSherry]

I had my local luthier put clear pickguards on most of my flat-topped instruments, to protect the finish against pick- and finger-wear. It has no appreciable effect on tone that I can see.

[Paul Hostetter]

I have applied them on carved instruments. There's a bit of stretch to the mylar - not much, but some. If you're careful, you can get a clear guard on a slightly curved surface.

[Stephanie Reiser]

I didnt catch whether the instrument is a flat-top or arch-top.
On flat-top dreadnaught guitars I use either contact cement or spray adhesive.

[Paul Hostetter]

Wow, I haven't used that stuff in thirty years. The 3M stuff came along and I never looked back. Part of my MO is reversibility, which is easy with transfer films and a real pain if not practically impossible with contact cement.

[brianf]

Thanks, Paul. I'll go with the 3M, and try it on a slightly curved surface. The area, beside the fingerboard extension extending to the F hole does have a slight arch to it.

[Rick Turner]

The deal with the transfer tape is that it is actually just a method for applying a nice thin and incredibly consistent layer of glue to the pickguard and top glue line. You just can't apply glue that accurately by any hand method or by spraying it. Great stuff...

[Paul Hostetter]

Hmm, what I may have been referring to erroneously as transfer tape is this stuff:

http://www.lutherie.net/467.3M.jpg

It's the stuff that's on the back of commercial pickguards, and is the operative adhesive on clear mylar I was referring to above. I have been working my way through a roll of this for 20 years or so. It's incredibly handy around the shop for other things, not just pickguards.

If I was contemplating a clear pickguard, I'd buy the mylar sheet with the adhesive already on - it goes on clearer.

[Rick Turner]

Paul, if it's transfer tape, then there is no tape left in the final joint...you are transferring adhesive from the surface of a "tape" to one of the parts to be joined. It's not the same as "double stick" tape which leaves a film of some plastic in the joint with two glue surfaces, one on each side of the tape.

And I agree re. using the clear mylar with the adhesive already on it. No way are you going to get as clean a look doing the adhesive transfer yourself. You can get the mylar at good art supply stores or StewMac.

[Paul Hostetter]

You must know this stuff - like it sez, it's a roll of adhesive, not a roll of tape. The paper you see peels off and leaves just the adhesive film, which by itself entirely dissolves in naphtha.

In other words, I think this is what you're calling transfer tape and what I think I'd prefer to call 3M 467 transfer adhesive.

Are we confused enough yet? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Rick Turner]

Paul, we're thoroughly confused but we know what we're talking about! There is a whole range of these adhesive transfer tape systems, too, for different applications in different industries. It's really confusing when you try to sort out different products with 3M; they make entirely too many products.

[Dale Ludewig]

I was just having almost the same discussion with Gary Tope yesterday about transfer tape. I was unfamiliar with it. See, years of experience doesn't mean you've seen stuff that other people consider day to day stuff. My understanding, at least about what Gary was talking about, was a 3M product with a backing that then came off and you were left with nothing but adhesive. We didn't discuss clarity of the product. This was for CNC work. I'm interested that naptha would remove it. I wouldn't expect naptha to hurt the finish (lacquer or varnish- how 'bout FP?), but was surprised that it would remove all the residue from the stuff. I guess you learn something everyday.

[kww]

I love the concept. I can think of a million times that I have had to repair emblems and such on automotive restorations where this would have been handy. Any feeling for how durable it is? Would it survive a constantly vibrating environment like an automobile interior?

[Paul Hostetter]

It's extremely tough. Pickguards, for example, go through a tremendous amount of vibration, thanks to all that banging and pickin’. Have you ever seen a Martin pickguard just vibrate and fall off?

I bought my roll direct from Martin, the one in the picture above. It needs as complete contact as possible, though I have put new tortoise guards over where previous failed Martin guards had once lived and, against my suspicions, even those seem to stay put quite well.

I also note that really crusty 30 and 40 year-old clear guards on flamenco guitars lift easily and come 100% clean with naphtha. But one good yank and you'll pull the lacquer right off if you skip the solvent, even if it's only been down for 45 seconds.

And speaking of automotive applications, I also wonder if the stickum on license plate tags like those we use here in CA is the same stuff. It seems to be, but it could be another heavier-dutier version. The interiors of cars get really, really hot sometimes. Not sure what that would do.

I'm trying to find a photo of a clear guard I have put on a carved mandolin. I've done it, but the "after" picture doesn't amount to much if it's clear, so I probably have nothing to show.

[Rick Turner]

That would be the emperor's new pickguard...