View Full Version : Loar on ebay.
F5G WIZ
Oct-09-2006, 12:14am
Just saw this for sale on Ebay. Estimate price going for 50,000 to 70,000. Seems kinda inexpensive for a Loar. Am I missing something?
<a href="http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/3032-American-Mandolin-Gibson-Mandolin-Guitar-Company_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ28221QQih
Z009QQitemZ190037577953QQrdZ1" target="_blank">http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/3032-Am....3QQrdZ1</a>
mrmando
Oct-09-2006, 3:03am
It's the same Loar being discussed here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=27;t=38050). Those Skinner estimates all look pretty low; the mandolin-family stuff they're selling will probably go for at least 2x the estimate.
mythicfish
Oct-09-2006, 6:54am
They're trying to bring in the riff-raff.
Curt
Glassweb
Oct-09-2006, 7:43am
Nope, Skinner routinely puts the Loars in their live instrument auction up for bidding on Ebay. More exposure for them. This Loar has been refinished, so it will go for a relatively low price - certainly way under $100K. Also has replacement tuners (possibly original), replacement tailpiece cover, no pickguard... this will be the least expensive Loar you'll probably ever find. Bargain hunters, start your engines!
8ch(pl)
Oct-09-2006, 10:37am
Yeah, Get Real. Still more than I make in a year.
Bob Denton
Oct-09-2006, 1:10pm
Notice that there is an additional buyers fee of 22.5% up to $80K, so an $80K bid would cost $98K.
Cya
Glassweb
Oct-09-2006, 1:15pm
People bid with that buyer's fee in mind. This mandolin will go cheap (relatively, huh?) compared to current prices for clean, original Loars.
mandolooter
Oct-09-2006, 2:02pm
who bids/buys it for me just remember to include the gas for your drive out here to Idaho to deliver it to me...thanks!
I bet it will go for over 100K. Many loars have been modified or oversprayed in some kind of way.
F5G WIZ
Oct-09-2006, 3:24pm
What the heck is a buyers fee! Sounds hoekey to me! Looks pretty clean though. Wonder how it sounds? Does anyone know where it came from. Haven't checked to see if it is on the archive.
F-5G Wiz:
Practically all auction houses now have a buyer's fee from 10% to 22.5% (the highest I have heard about). #My guess is that the internet fee is 5% more than if you were at the live auction. #It is merely a percentage "add on" to the hammer price of the item. #There is also a "Seller's Fee", usually ranging from 10% to 25%.
If the Loar sells for 100K, the (internet) buyer will pay 122.5K and the consignor (seller) will receive approx. 80K (guessing on the seller's fee) minus insurance, shipping (to the auction house), and photography/advertising/catalog fee.
Then take into consideration the taxes on the gains of the instrument. #I'll bet the seller does not clear more than 60K.
Are auction houses "racquets"? #Some are (it's documented) and some are straight up. #The bottom line is that it is expensive to use the well known auction houses. #I guess their expenses justify their fees.
Glassweb
Oct-09-2006, 5:12pm
I can't say I agree with you all. The last 4 Loars that sold at Skinner went for way below their market value. Dave Bonsey puts a very reasonable estimate on his instruments and he's to be praised for this. He's also a super guy to deal with. All of these said Loars could be sold today for between $30K-$40K more than their price at auction - including the dreaded "buyer's premium". As I said earlier, educated bidders take this "fee" into account when they bid. For those that do have the funds to obtain a vintage mandolin such as this, you'll probably not find a better deal than bidding on an F5 at Skinner. A very reputable auction house as far as I'm concerned. The did right by me.
F5G WIZ
Oct-09-2006, 5:37pm
Glaaweb, what did you get from them?
mrmando
Oct-09-2006, 5:53pm
In fact, a late '20s Fern (not a Loar) that Skinner sold -- what was it, last year? 2 years ago? -- is on eBay now, for about twice what it fetched at the Skinner auction.
F5G WIZ
Oct-09-2006, 7:06pm
Wondering why someone would refinish a Loar? Everything I have read is that that is a mistake. worth much more with original finish. Am I wrong?
Many were done before anyone knew they were so valuable and,Yes it knocks down the value of them quite a bit.
I did a count on the archive and came up with 26 Loar signed F-5s have been refinished. That is quite a few.
dryseptember
Oct-09-2006, 7:43pm
Where is that late 20's fern?
is it up for auction at skinner also?
or just on ebay.
dryseptember
Glassweb
Oct-09-2006, 8:48pm
To F5 Gwhiz - I've bought a 1924 Loar F5 from them and also a 1923 A4 snakehead.
markishandsome
Oct-09-2006, 11:42pm
IIRC the last few skinner loars sold for above their estimate but below their market value. Sometimes you see an intrument that was refinished poorly or uglyly sometime in the distant past refinished a second time to "restore" it. If you wanted to sell something like this you have to consign it to someone. It's not the sort of thing you put up on craigslist. A place like elderly or Gruhn's might have lower fees, but with an auction house you're garanteed to move your item at a given date, which would likely be important to someone selling off their investment as prices continue to climb...
I'm not sure why someone would put up some of the less valuable A's thru skinner when they'll never fetch more than $1k and can be sold directly to a store or on ebay, unless maybe they're selling off a collection and get some bulk discount on the sellers fee.
Ebay has seller's fees too!
F5G WIZ
Oct-10-2006, 2:10am
glassweb, cool! One of these days we will all be sayin' "Remember when you could get a Loar for $150,000? Man I wish I would have bought one back in 06!" hehe
F5G WIZ
Oct-10-2006, 2:11am
I think back in the late 70's early 80's you could pick one up for under 10,000.
Darryl Wolfe
Oct-10-2006, 9:10am
I think back in the late 70's early 80's you could pick one up for under 10,000.
1968......1200
1970......2000
1976......5500
1979......7500
1982......8000-8500
1988......13000
1994ish...40000
mrmando
Oct-10-2006, 10:18am
Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170015120805) is that Fern ... sorry, auction ended a while back ...
maroon
Oct-10-2006, 10:21pm
Anyone notice who refinished the Loar on ebay? None other than John Monteleone. While one would still rather have a Loar with an original finish, wouldn't a restoration/refinish by someone of such standing mitigate the loss in value normally associated with a refinish?
Glassweb
Oct-10-2006, 11:23pm
Nope.
f5loar
Oct-11-2006, 12:20am
Has it been stated how much was refinished? There are Loars with that light of a cermona shading. Depending on how much was would relate to the value.
Did he use varnish? I believe he is lacquer man.
Just looking at the pics it looks to me like almost a total refin. Also, is that fingerboard original? #It looks like a replacement.
Darryl Wolfe
Oct-11-2006, 9:08am
It appears to be a total varnish refin. I believe I see at least a refret. The board may be original, but it does look a tad odd. I also think there is something slightly off on the large peghead scroll. The may be some repair or replacement going on there and possibly a rebound peghead. The color looks very right and could possibly be original. If not he got it very close.
Darryl Wolfe
Oct-12-2006, 9:13am
I didn't notice the additional photos. The pickguard is obviously missing, however there are two sets of holes. One set appears to be filled and the other set not. Neither set is in the correct position. So, the board is replaced or rebound
New description reads,
Condition: Very good, Body is lacquer refinished by John Monteleone. With pickguard (original w/patent date) and original rectangular case. Small hairline crack above treble ff, 1.5 cm. Small hairline crack at neck joint, bass side, 1 cm. Repaired face crack at neck joint, under fingerboard edge, 5cm. Tuners and tailpiece cover are F-4, fingerboard possibly replaced
$60K #plus 17 1/2% commision plus 5% sales tax # Grand total $74,525.00
Glassweb
Oct-15-2006, 1:54pm
That's about right, especially with tax and added costs. I figured it would go for $75K when all was said and done.
I guess without a bluebook for Loars, It's all what the buyer is willing to pay. Two months from now it might sell for 90k.
Yeah, I think some of the non-original hardware combined with the refinish put that one where it ended up. I was guessing around what steve says too, about $75k
f5loar
Oct-15-2006, 11:49pm
$75K is pretty decent for a refinish in lacquer(why would Mont. have done that?)and the speculation that fingerboard and tuners are not original and possible headstock repair.
I saw on cafe ads someone looking for just this type Loar.
I think you are right, look for it to turn around in a year or less with a sizable profit.