PDA

View Full Version : Can Anyone Help Me



kFisher
Apr-22-2004, 11:22am
I bought this in Germany and the label inside is still in tack..... it reads
GRANDE FABBRICA
# # # # di
STRUMENTI ARMONICI
Domenico Ventazola
# # Napoli

Any information any one can give me would be much appreciated.....

Bob A
Apr-22-2004, 3:44pm
I can't provide much help, but it looks very like many another Italian mandolin I've seen, mainly by De Meglio. They typically have the string tensioner, brass saddle, zero fret, raised pickguard, and holes (usually in a dash-dot-dash pattern) along the rim of the bowl. I bought one a while back, but it needed major setup work, so it's off in the luthier zone.

I understand they're well thought of for what are basically fairly simple, low-end instruments. I was especially fond of the wide radius the maker put on the rim, which makes it easy on the forearm when playing. I can't tell from your photo whether yours also has this feature, but I'd be surprised if it didn't.

So, how does it sound and play? I long to hear mine; your opinion will have to carry me through. (I trust you're using the lightest possible strings on it. Many a fine bowlback has been lost to mankind from being strung with strings more appropriate for a bluegrass instrument).

Jim Garber
Apr-22-2004, 4:44pm
To illustrate bob A's point: 1897 Demeglio

kFisher
Apr-22-2004, 11:18pm
It plays wonderfully thank you. The string on it are still the ones that it came with 4 years ago. It hasn't needed tuning since I purchased it either. One thing about it though that has always bothered however is that at the base of the bowl you can see the only metal on it besides the frets.. it has an etching of bethoveen and his name is raised on it. It doesn't seem to go with the piece at all. Why would anyone alter the piece in this way or did it come this way?

Jim Garber
Apr-23-2004, 5:25am
Are you referring to the tailpiece -- the anchor for the strings at the other end from the tuning pegs? It could be original or the previous owner could have liked it and installed it. There is no accounting for what folks did to the instruments they owned.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-23-2004, 8:59am
yes the tailpiece.. i was juts wondering about it because it just doesn't lok like it belongs there.... thank you for your information....

Bob A
Apr-23-2004, 6:10pm
I think the metal dingus is to keep your forearm from being gouged by the strings down there. Most folks have lost them over the years.

After four years, it's time to change strings. GHS makes an inexpensive classical set, you can order them thru JustStrings linked to this site. You'll find new strings will make the thing sing out. (Also buy a couple different picks. You'd be surprised at how much they affect the sound. And they don't cost much at all).

Enjoy!

Jim Garber
Apr-23-2004, 6:27pm
These are the GHS strings (http://www.juststrings.com/ghs-a240.html) that Bob A was referring. We can't emphasize enough that you must use ultra-light strings. There are other types but please do not go to your local store and get the standard mandolin strings -- they will destroy the instrument.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-23-2004, 11:19pm
Thank you guys so much! You are being a great help. I just orderd the strings and I already have a wide assortment of picks but am always getting more. As soon as The strings come in I will change them....

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 9:36am
I was going thru my jpeg collection and came across one that sold on eBay some time ago. it was described as being by Domenico Venlarola. I have a feeling tho that both of you are wrong and that it is actually Ventarola. Just my hunch. Is it easy to misread the name? Is it in script on the label?

Jim

vkioulaphides
Apr-28-2004, 10:13am
Well, a "t" that was not crossed —or whose "crossing" has been effaced by time— is not a hard thing to imagine. And, yes, "Ventarola" sounds more credible as an Italian surname. Beyond that (and typical of my usual mental state), I haven't a clue. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Moose
Apr-28-2004, 10:25am
I keep waiting for our own Eugene to contribute to this thread - I certainly am not knowledgable in this matter.. Hey!.. Eugene I know you're out there somewhere... - Inquiring minds want to know... Regards, Moose-"from-the-other-side-of-the-tracks". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

kFisher
Apr-28-2004, 10:31am
No the label is very clear and it is written in script but is very distint in being a z and not an r as it does not contain the crest that an scripted r has. As I reported the label is in wonderful condition. I have been trying to get a piture of it but have yet to have any success. I didn't mean to start an argument. I am sorry.

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 10:35am
Here is what Eugene said on another thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=14781;hl=kfisher):


I'm not familiar with Domenica Ventazola, but this looks consistent with the late 19th-c. style popularized by de Meglio and Ceccherini, especially the former. #Is the clasp "vented;" i.e. are there extra tone ports/holes around the side?

vkioulaphides
Apr-28-2004, 10:37am
No argument, just curiosity. The source that Jim quotes for "Venlarola" is definitely incorrect, as a hypothetical "n" would have been assimilated with the "l" into "ll", as in "in-logical = illogical". As for the "z vs. r", I just don't know.

kFisher
Apr-28-2004, 10:37am
There are vents on each side in a dash dot dash

vkioulaphides
Apr-28-2004, 10:38am
In other words: It's a de Meglio clone.

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 10:39am
I didn't mean to start an argument. I am sorry.
Not sure what you mean by an argument. I didn't sense tempers flaring, I don't think.

I did some googling with all three variants of the name and Ventarola was the only surname that came up at all. Tho Google did ask me if I meant Venezuela. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The problem is that there were prob hundreds of makers in Italy at this time and no reputable list of the smaller ones.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-28-2004, 10:45am
I am unsure of what a de Megilo is. I might not have made myself clear of the fact that I know nothing of mandolins except my dad taught me to play one as a small girl. Any opinons however are appreciated as I have not been able to find one shread of information on this item at all.

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 10:59am
De Meglio was one of the more prominent Neapolitan makers. We are just trying to determine what it is you have and Victor surmises that since it has that surrounding pickguard and the holes in the side that it was either built by de Meglio shop for Venta*ola or was made by Mr. V's shop in the style of the de Meglio mandolins.

This is just a bit of conjectural detective work.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-28-2004, 11:19am
I feel very out of my element here but wil give you all the information I can.

It has a alternating striped vener on the bowl alternating dark wood light wood. On each side of the bowl by the face is a single dash, a single dot, another dash. It has ivory tune keys and the 'dingus' appears to not be original though I may be wrong however it seems very out of place and it is hard to explain why I feel this way, I just do.There are no cracks and no discolorations that suggest restoration. The label is in wonderful condition and the reference to the crest is obvious in the unknown letter as we all know what a crest is however it has a slash through the middle (-) that lead me to believe it was a z and I only say it since I dabble in calligraphy. Honestly this is all I know. I will try to get some more pictures posted.

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 11:26am
It would be helpful to get a photo of the label. it might help to loosen the strings and pull them to the side to get the photo.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-28-2004, 11:30am
The problem i am having with the photo of the label is actually light not obsructions. All attempts have come back as a pure white or solid black.. too much or too little.

Bob A
Apr-28-2004, 1:43pm
Don't let little alphabetic distractions hassle you. You have what appears to be a decent Italian mandolin. Please enjoy playing it! And certainly feel free to ask for such advice or info as you might wish, and we will attempt to provide.

Pluck on!

Moose
Apr-28-2004, 2:09pm
Yeah!! - Bob...., you da' man!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Alex Timmerman
Apr-28-2004, 4:52pm
Hello and a special hello to Kimberly,


Jim is right. The instrument you bought is a genuine Domenico Ventarola mandolin.

For the sake of convenience this particular mandolin model is referred to as the ´De Meglio model´; but that is only because most these kind of mandolins bear the Giovanni De Meglio label or that of his son Michele De Meglio. Both worked in Neapels (via Roma). It is not really known which maker came up first with this mandolin model.
The labels of the De Meglios show a working period of 25 years; from ±1890 up to around 1915. But it must be said that during that period a great many De Meglio mandolins were made, sold ànd distributed all over Europe.

It is also known fact that at the time - when business went well - one atelier gave work to many employees, fellow workers and apprentices. All of them having their own task to do and all working under one name: that of the owner or founder of the business (a situation similar to that of the Vinaccia atelier).
We can assume that the De Meglio atelier was such a successful business and that because of the popularity of ´their´ Neapolitan mandolin model some of the De Meglio luthiers and apprentices soon started their own shop probably working under their own name.

This is likely the reason why we there are mandolins that are very, very similar to the De Meglio ones. Not only the one you own - made by Domenico Ventarola - is such an example. Also those build by another fine Neapolitan luthier named Luigi Dorigo are excellent De Meglio look-alikes. The protection sleeve gard beneeth the bridge is original and similar to the floral decoration design as seen inlayed in the scratchplate. Dorigo´s mandolins were favoured especially in Paris. A good 24 frets example of Dorigo´s mandolin making in the ´De Meglio model´ manner, can be seen right now at e-Bay Italy where it just came up for sale.
Click here to see the similarities. (http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3720224757&category=24403)


About Domenico Ventarola (there is only one Neapolitan musical instrument maker with this name listed) not much more is known other than that he was a active as a luthier in Neaples around 1900. It is because of his labelled instruments which only occasionally come up for sale, that I believe that he was primarely making mandolins and guitars.


Best and good luck with your mandolin,

Alex

Jim Garber
Apr-28-2004, 7:47pm
About Domenico Ventarola (there is only one Neapolitan musical instrument maker with this name listed)
Alex:
When you say that this maker is listed -- where is this list? Is there an existing book that lists mandolin makers?

Jim

kFisher
Apr-29-2004, 12:23am
Thank you guys very much for your help. Now I know a little more about this instrument. Either way I will continue to play it as it does have a wonderful sound that makes even my very very modest playing sound good....

Jim Garber
Apr-29-2004, 6:30am
What type of strings will you put on it?

Jim

kFisher
Apr-29-2004, 7:29am
I just ordered the strings that you guys gave me the link to. They should come in sometime in the next 3 weeks or so... mail here is very slow....

Jim Garber
Apr-29-2004, 7:42am
Kimberly:
Pardon my US-centric assumptions. I just gave that link for juststrings.com for a decent string to use on your bowlback. I didn't realize you were in Europe. Perhaps some of our European friends can suggest a local source and a type of string for you to restring.

Jim

kFisher
Apr-29-2004, 9:06am
It is ok. I am on a military post so it might not be too long. Besides I have already pordered the strings but thank you so much...