Pitch pipe or electric tuner?

[LowGapBG]

What would be best to have,pitch pipe or electric tuner for tuning my mandolin?Would the pitch pipe be better for me to learn by ear how to tune?Thanks alot http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[45ACP-GDLF5]

Hey LowGap!

Here's my 2 cents worth. Over the past 22 years of mandolin playing, I have found that pitch pipes lose their tone and accuracy over time due to the air constantly flowing over the reed inside and the metal corroding. Electronic tuners are good in that they show you precisely the correct pitch, but they run on batteries and if the batteries are low, your tuning will be off. They also make you rely on the device and not your ears. Your ears are the best tuning instrument to use. I have used high quality Tuning Forks for 22 years and they have never let me down. They not only get your mandolin/guitar in tune but they help you use your ears and as you know, bluegrass is a "play by ear" type of music. Why do you think God gave us two of 'em? IMHO. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[45ACP-GDLF5]

One more thing LowGap,

Between the pitch pipe and the electronic tuner, go with the tuner, but the tuning fork won't get out of tune or take up as much space as the other 2 devices. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[fiddle5]

I agree with the comment about pitch pipes, not only do they go out of tune, each person who uses it gets a slightly different pitch. Electronic tuners work well for beginners and on-stage tuning, but many people get dependant on them and let their ear training fall to the side simply because its easier. If you're going to use a tuner, try doing it by ear first, then correct it with the tuner. It doesn't come overnight, but the human ears can work just as well as a tuner if trained.


mike

[arbarnhart]

I got a tuning fork and I try to use it some, but mostly I ue the electric. As someone else said, it won't go out of tune. It also is easy to tune with as you don't do it completely by ear. When you have the A string right (I am assuming an A tuning fork because that's what I have), you get a sympathetic vibration when you touch the mando with the vibrating tuning fork. Then you do the others to it by ear.

[JGWoods]

A contact electronic tuner allows you to tune in noisy places- that happens a lot and I think they are the best thing to come along in a long while for getting jams going, group classes, mandolin orchestras and what have you. I remember the days before electronic tuners- so much time wasted getting everyone tuned up, and then playing out of tune anyway- today thngs are MUCH better and it's electronic tuners that have done it.
You can learn correct - by ear- tuning even when you have an electrronic tuner. Tune up first with the electronic, then retune by ear as things fade. When you get badly out of tune you can use the electronic tuner to get you back to correct pitch- and you can see where you might have gone astray as well by what is flat and what is sharp.

[Bertram Henze]

I have grown up with music before there were any electronic tuners. I have tried one once and found it far too inaccurate (and far too space-age kind of gadget, off-style for a folk music instrument, like lighting a camp fire with a proton torpedo).
I got by with a fork for a long time, but in loud environments it is not so helpful, and placed on the bridge, it's resonance response from the A strings is too inaccurate still.
For the last three years, I am happy with a pitch pipe, whose reed hasn't gone south on me yet, and if it will, I'll just buy another pitch pipe.

Bertram

[Klaus Wutscher]

If you play/rehease/gig with other people, an electronic tuner is a must. Ever tried to tune your mandolin standing next to a banjo player running through his next kickoff?

That said, tuning to the ear is important and will also help your pitch as a singer. When on my own, I usually tune one D string to the tuner and tune the other strings by ear. On stage, its tuner all the way (esp. when playing with a pickup)

[John Flynn]

I have TAS (Tuner Acquisition Syndrome) so I have a bunch of electronic tuners, all different brands. I have found them all very accurate and consistent with each other. Contrary to what was mentioned before, not all of them will give bad readings when the batteries get low. It depends on the circuitry. Some will stay right on the money until the battery gets below a certain level, and then bam, lights out. On the other hand, I have tested some tuning forks and pitch pipes against my tuners. Most are right on, but some are not, even brand new. I bought a new violin/mando pitch pipe and three of the strings were right on, but the "A" was way off.

One time, for some strange reason, I happened to have an electronic tuner in my briefcase once when I was at the doctor's office, I don't even remember why it was in there. While I was in the examining room, waiting forever, I got bored and noticed the doc had a tuning fork, probably for testing hearing. It was obviously an expensive one, probably hundreds of of dollars. It was about 8 inches long and had little "resonators" on the tips. It was stamped that it was tuned to "C." It seemed to be in like-new condition, not scratched or dinged in any way. So, really being bored, I checked it against the tuner. It was nearly a half step off of C.

Bottom line, I trust my ear and the better electronic tuners. Everything else is suspect.

[arbarnhart]

That C fork may not have been made with the A=440 scale. I got a dirt cheap A=440 fork on the bay and my IntelliTouch says it is dead on. I have a couple of reasons for trying to learn to use the fork. One is that I hate relying on something that uses a battery and is a cheap piece of electronics. I would be disappointed but not shocked if it quit working out of the blue. The other is that if you learn to hear when things are in tune, then you also notice when they are not.

[jim_n_virginia]

My fiddle teacher hates tuners and tunes the A string by tuning fork. She also hates cell phones and computers! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I play at music jams, open mic nights and I gig with a 3 piece band. Electronic tuner is essential. If I can hear at all I will tune with the electric tuner and then fine tune by ear but most of the time its the electronic tuner (was Intellitouch but now the Intelli 500)and most of the time tuning up FAST is important too.

I tune up at the begining but many times I have to re-tune a string or two in between songs.

Tuning fork and pitch pipe (do they still make them? LOL) are for quiet places like you back porch or your bedroom or wherever you practice at.

But I will admit I DO have a pitch pipe in my case (4 tone mandolin pipe) that I bought years ago as a back up in case the batteries go out on my tuner but have never had to use it yet.

[Bertram Henze]

Tuning fork and pitch pipe (do they still make them? LOL) are for quiet places like you back porch or your bedroom or wherever you practice at.
I agree about the fork, but not about the pitch pipe. I have a single A one (and they make them, yes), place it in the corner of my mouth - PEEEEEEEP (everybody in the pub looks up, shellshocked) - put one ear on my OM and get the A strings in tune, the rest by ear only. Usually stays in tune for the rest of the evening.

A pitch pipe is nothing but a minimalistic harmonica; harmonicas are loud enough to be used in blues sessions, so what problem should a pitch pipe have in a celtic session?

Bertram

[TommyK]

I have a 30 year old guitar pitch pipe, actually more like a harmonica. #E A D G were and are spot on. b and e were and are flat. #It was and is a cheapy. #After 30 years it began to sound muffled. I opened it up last winter and found the reeds corroded. #I brushed the reeds gently with gritty tooth paste and it brightened them up. #Brush out, if you try this, like combing your hair. #The reeds are delecate. #E A D G are still spot on, b and e are still flat. I tune the Es then tune the others the low string. I still use it when I forget to turn the darned electronic one off and kill it's battery.

The worst tuner I ever had was an elecronic 'buzz box' Sized like today's electronic tuners with LCD display, but no display. It was gray. It had an on off switch, a knob to turn to each note and a speaker Sounded like a sick cat. The low E and high e 'notes' (actually more like a dischordant chords) it emitted weren't even in tune with each other. My li'l sis' gave it to me for my birthday with a cool strap, so I used it from time to time. I've lost it over the years... or maybe threw it out. I still have and use the strap on 'old reliable.'

[David M.]

I have an old violin pitchpipe that came with a fiddle I bought once and it's way off.

I have an old A440 tuning fork that I've had since Jr. High (43 now...) and used to tune my flattop SOLELY with this. Works well and develops the ear.

I prefer these days the Intellitouch.

[Bill Van Liere]

Geesh...I remember the old days of trying to tune a Bluegrass band to a tuning fork. Things seem so much easier now with tuners and clip on pick-ups and such.

[Elliot Luber]

Mandozine also has a free tuner online: http://www.mandozine.com/resources/mandotuner.php

[Bob DeVellis]

I think it's really a personal choice. One potential problem is that different people actually hear the same pitch differently. I've seen people who can tune an instrument very consistently by ear, but their tuning is off if you check it with a good tuner. It's off in the same way every time, but it's off. That sounds good to them. If it also sounds good to the people playing with them, terrific. But it has sounded strange to me in some cases (which is why I checked and discovered it was off) because I'm more accustomed to a different "correct" tuning that's closer to what an electronic tuner steers you toward. I think there's something to be said for tuning to a standard, like an electronic tuner, but also something to be said for tuning to what sounds best to you. If the latter is consistent and doesn't pose problems for other players, it seems fine to me. However, I've never heard someone else complain about playing with an instrument tuned with an electronic tuner. Personally, I use an electronic tuner but do a little final touching up by ear. I may actually be un-tuning in the process of touching up, but it sounds best to my ear that way. Let's face it, most instruments change tuning to some degree as they're played. Even if you get it dead on, it's likely to be very slightly off in short order.

[brianf]

Reasons to use a transducer type tuner;

It ignores the other sounds. The ear tires after a few loud bluegrass tunes, and may not still be accurate. Some folks egos won't let them admit that they are out of tune.

[mandroid]

Another Option; Tuning to the piano, particularly, uh, if it's also going to be played , and the electronic keyboard is pretty darn quick to tune to by ear. #especially when I tune stuff to #like :
AEBF#C# ; FCGD ; BbFCG. #and the normal tunings too.
... got a couple electronic ones too.. a remote clip for the banjo-mandolin bridge helps on that instrument .

[Mikey G]

[QUOTE]:If you play/rehease/gig with other people, an electronic tuner is a must.

Amen, Klaus.

[ben_wv]

Since there are two strings on each course, there is an opportunity to use an electronic tuner and your ear.

I tune the first string by the tuner. Then I tune the second by ear against the first, and repeat for the other 3 courses. #This way, I feel like I'm getting kind of the best of both.

[Lee Callicutt]

The electronic tuner can be very helpful if you find yourself doing a bridge placement or setup on your own.

[gnelson651]

I used a pitch pipe for years tuning a banjo and the only time I replaced it was when the reed broke.

Now I use an electronic tuner. As far as I'm concerned it hasn't hurt my "playing by ear" one iota. Its far faster, more convenient and straight forward. Yes, I do check the tuning by ear after I've tuned electronically.

The problem I've found with pitch pipes for beginners is that they overtune and will break a sring. Also I don't understand why using a pitch pipe will be any better for playing by ear. Playing by ear is the ability to hear intervals not changes in pitch (yes technically they are the same but hearing intervals is more scale oriented rather than pitch oriented).

[Perry]

Tuning by ear with just a tuning fork is a great skill to have but not at the expense of playing out of tune. It's hard enough to play in tune! I would get both and use the electronic tuner when it's crucial to be in tune. Some tweaking is usually necessary even after an electronic tuner says your dead on.

For a "master class" in tuning with a tuning fork check out the first Tony Rice DVD on Homespun. Yes it is guitar but still applicable. It's inspiring and educational. He discusses the need to adjust the strings based on the individual instrument and also the key your are in. It's called tempering the instrument. I never really noticed this discussed in the mando world. It's worth watching it if you get a chance. I never heard a G chord so in tune when he's done. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

I understand he dwells into the subject even more on his first cassette series for Homespun.

[Celtic Saguaro]

Alone a tuning fork works best. Tune one string to the fork and the rest by ear. Then come back and check the first pair to the fork again. It's too easy to get different tones out of a pitch pipe. #In a crowd an electronic tuner works best, but they are often far from perfect. #If an electronic tuner doesn't agree with a tuning fork, it's the electronic tuner that's off. #But as someone said above, you have to be sure the fork is made on the A=440 scale!

[Riccardo]

Electronic tuners. They do not depend on your ear, which might be imprecise http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Also, the pipes tend to lose their pitch over the years of use/abuse

[jk245]

My Washburn came with a violin/mandolin plastic pitch pipe. Not bad but I can never seem to get a very true tune by = or - an 1/8 of a turn in the tuner. I tried my daughter's guitar tuner Yamaha YT250. The problem is that it picks up too much random noise due to it using a mic pickup. For my daughter it is great since her acoustic/electric has a connection cable to use the guitars internal pickup. I think my Intellitouch PT2 Tuner which attaches to the mando instrument with a soft clamp and feels vibration It is good for noisy environments. Some pro's complain that they like the higher price PT1 since it has more bells and whistles and a back lighted display (for on stage use). Honestly the PT2 is easy to read in normal room light and has no nonsence visual indication. Either you are "on" tune or somewhat "off" tune.:) I got mine for $30 from Giardinelli.com (same price as their sister company Musicians Friend both div Guitar Centers) which at the time I purchased it, gave free shipping for any order...so check the two companies for the best shipping deal.
{Sorry to say I am a bit tone deaf so the electronic tuner is for me!}