Loar Picture of the Day [Archive] - Page 3

tree

Jul-02-2008, 8:02am

How far would you go in cleaning up an instrument like this?

I don't know much about cleaning high value collectables except that you should first do no harm. #At any rate, here is my guess. #

I'd start by replacing the strings, taking them all off at once so I could remove and wipe down the bridge too. #With the bridge off I would clean the entire surface with a very slightly damp, clean cotton rag, following behind it with a clean dry cotton rag. I might go so far as to lightly rub the fretboard with 0000 steel wool, just to remove grunge.

I'd be afraid to use anything stronger than the damp/dry rag on the tailpiece or pickguard. I'd lightly lube the tuner gears with a drop of Triflow. Is that about right? #Anything else, or anything you would do differently?

Glassweb

Jul-02-2008, 8:07am

notice how none of the Loars on the market at the moment have sold? this one would...

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-02-2008, 9:26am

I am in the process of doing an appraisal on this. Under separate cover I will make several recommendations to the owners on what to do to the mandolin dependant on their intention. At this juncture, I believe they are willing to come back on a weekend so that they can wait while I do a Phase 1 set-up over 3-4 hours of time. The frets and fingerboard need some attention as well as a lettle tweek of the neck before I can simply slap a set of strings on it like they hoped I could do last night.

At least they left with a used Travelite case for it

Tree: you are fairly close on. Some of that would be a Phase 2 cleanup that would restore a touch of gloss to it and hide a few finish flakes

markishandsome

Jul-02-2008, 9:26am

On the cleaning topic, Darryl, do you do anything to yours to keep it looking so shiny?

What about those cracks (?) under the f-hole?

A nice instrument!

Jim Hilburn

Jul-02-2008, 9:37am

I'd clean it with gasoline like the old catalogs suggested.

Jim Hilburn

Jul-02-2008, 9:39am

Seriously, it obviously hasn't seen a lot of playing time.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-02-2008, 9:52am

Believe it or not there is considerable wear on the first few frets. Plenty left to dress out

Jim Hilburn

Jul-02-2008, 10:11am

Well at least they had good picking technique.

f5loar

Jul-02-2008, 10:18am

From the looks of the 2 together photo it looks the same guy stained them. And this one is the Monroe style "The" script. Should add another $10,000 there.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-02-2008, 11:25am

They are identical in color. The difference in sheen is causing a color shift on the new found one

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-02-2008, 11:35am

The pickguard is unique. It is single bound. There is no patent stamp. It appears original to me and it does have the metal rod inlaid in the reinforcing strip. I'll be able to tell for sure when I get a chance to remove it

dirty harry

Jul-02-2008, 11:56am

Hmmm,
Nice Loar......... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Timbofood

Jul-02-2008, 12:33pm

Happy to hear that it got to your capable hands rather than some less "Informed" soul. There was an "antiques buyer" here in Kalamazoo last week, I offed a couple of watches and asked about instruments. The buyer told me he had seen a couple of things and he thought one had been an F-2. He didn't tell me what they gave for it. Another piece from the past seems to float up to the surface now and then, let's just hope they go to respectful hands.

Glassweb

Jul-02-2008, 4:29pm

looks alot like my old friend # 73994. same back wood and beautiful carving of the top & back. love that single-ply pickguard... man, those are a special bunch those July 9 sidebinders...

f5loar

Jul-03-2008, 12:15am

I thought it was 73997. Are you saying you owned this one to?

danb

Jul-03-2008, 4:31am

I think he means 73994

BradKlein

Jul-03-2008, 8:37am

Thanks for sharing these images Darryl. A real treat for all of us.

Glassweb

Jul-03-2008, 8:54am

I think he means 73994
oops! yes Dan... i did mean 73994! sorry for the confusion guys...

Paul Statman

Jul-03-2008, 9:30pm

Jeez - I just hate it when people bring me those Loars. I have precious little space left for them anymore, and now they're really starting to pile up.

mandopluker

Jul-04-2008, 7:57am

WOW ! ! really beautiful pictures. Thanks to everyone that share them!

On another (Loar subject) yesterday I played the recent July 9th side bound at Gruhn's along with a '27 Fern and a '24 Virzi Loar. Talk about pure heaven! I must say the Virzi really woke up! At first I did not like the Virzi (I am rather drawn to the crunchy sound personally). But after some time with the Virzi I really came to like it and the tone -it would be an extremely TOUGH CHOICE to pick between them all. The '23 had a very raw crunchy aspect to it -the chop would echo off all the other instruments in the room! Also, the Fern was magnificent, I don't think it took a back seat to the Loar's at all!

Thank you Christi @ Gruhn..... (and my Christy) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Rroyd

Jul-04-2008, 9:12am

So we get the impression that your Christy has given the OK for you to pick one of these to take home, or maybe is cashing in her Microsoft holdings to buy you a birthday present from Gruhns. Details?? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandopluker

Jul-05-2008, 6:56am

Rroyd,

....still kicking the tires. It's a very tough (picking the right one) and as you know huge financial decision to say the least today. Just like everyone else saving, saving, saving (and selling off a few mandos)!

It sure is great to see pics like the ones f5journl, danb, and others that share information and post.

Thanks again guy's.

Glassweb

Jul-05-2008, 7:00am

Also, the Fern was magnificent, I don't think it took a back seat to the Loar's at all!
i just heard from a friend who played that Fern last week and said it was a fantastic sounding instrument. ya know Shayne... one Loar in hand is worth two Ferns in the bush...

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-09-2008, 9:09am

Happy Birthday to the July 9 mandolins and to F5loar who owns a "birthdate" example. #His is on the left, mine is on the right. #74000 and 73992.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-09-2008, 9:13am

Now that's what we're talking about

mandopluker

Jul-09-2008, 9:36am

- - - - - O M G - - - -

F5GRun

Jul-09-2008, 9:55am

Drool City...population: ME

Mikey G

Jul-09-2008, 11:23pm

Shazaam! That's like mandoporn.

Timbofood

Jul-10-2008, 7:56am

I trust there was plenty of birthday cake for you and your "play date"! How cool!

f5loar

Jul-12-2008, 12:11am

I had my July 9th out all week picking in celebration of it's 85th BD. Out of respect I picked mostly Monroe tunes. Back to the vault to sleep until next July!

evanreilly

Jul-12-2008, 11:30pm

I got a good chance to 'Walk the Dog' with #74000 last week when it was in town here, and that sure is a nice mandolin! It looks pristine; not much in the way of smell, tho. And yes, we played Monroe tunes whenever!

Darryl Wolfe

Sep-10-2008, 9:56am

81251 in the case. A very nice example of the so-called "unsigned Loars"

Mandolusional

Sep-11-2008, 9:38am

That's a really nice one! I'm still waiting for the as yet undiscovered lefty-Loar though. I have a feeling I may be waiting a long time. :)

danb

Sep-11-2008, 11:45am

Here's a nice photo from
Elderly Instruments (http://www.elderly.com) showing
F5 75702 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75702)

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/75702_tailpiece_detail.jpg

Note how the wear pattern shows the layers of plating over the brass, and also the two holes on the side- this tailpiece cover would fit on a k5 or l5 style trapeze tailpiece too!

f5loar

Sep-11-2008, 2:37pm

Must have run out of reg. F5 covers! And now Elderly has for sale 2 1924 F5s for $225,000 each. Decisions, decisions....... what must one do? If I wait until after Nov. 4 maybe I can receive a huge tax credit for buying one! After all Loars are engergy efficient using only the oldest of woods to project their self contained power.

danb

Sep-12-2008, 9:03am

The thought I had was the probably had more made that could accomodate a trapeze than they necessarily needed- that type works on any style 5

tree

Sep-12-2008, 1:28pm

I have only a basic understanding of the issues with collectibility and price. Elderly says this one "probably needs a refret". I wouldn't hesitate to have my personal mandolin refretted (I just did, actually), but what would you need to consider if you bought this mandolin and decided to have it refretted? Would you remove and replace the entire fretboard and save the original, or just replace (and save?) the old frets?

danb

Sep-12-2008, 1:48pm

With a Loar, I would think you would want to match the original wire, or replace the entire fretboard if you want to go with bigger frets & a radius.

There is appropriate wire out there that matches the original, and I think it's a subtle but important part of the tone and playability of them.

That said, it's a subtle but important part of the playability for others to put in a radius board with larger frets. No way to put a value on personal preferences

Darryl Wolfe

Sep-22-2008, 11:24am

82916 now listed on the auction site. Does anyone know where this came from. It is extraordinary when a new number shows up and the instrument is very well played in like this

f5joe

Sep-22-2008, 12:33pm

Sweet!

f5loar

Sep-22-2008, 4:20pm

Not so out of the oridnary for the F5J not to know about this one. This is one of the many out there that are known by others but never seem to make it to the F5J archives. Others know about it, probably have even played it but seldom if ever care about serial numbers but they know where they are at. As stated this was sold by Randy Wood some 30 years ago so this would have just as the F5J got started on compling the numbers. I bet Randy didn't jot down numbers either back then. No doubt this one has some serious "Rawhide" miles on it. I would guess there are some two dozen more out there like this not known to the F5J but known to others.

Darryl Wolfe

Sep-23-2008, 10:33am

The F5J does however capture the out of the ordinary most of the time and adds things to the "archive" on a regular basis

The elusive "F5LOAR"

AlanN

Sep-23-2008, 12:34pm

Now, if I were to run into that wax dummy of Big Mon at Mme. Tousseau's Wax Museum, I would do a double take!

f5vinnie

Sep-27-2008, 10:04am

F5 loar and evanreilly are superb loar pickers.

f5loar

Sep-27-2008, 10:39pm

Well maybe "superb" is a little strong in describing us.
How about just "old" Loar pickers and let it go at that! :grin:

evanreilly

Sep-28-2008, 3:07pm

Huh??? Aren't all the Loars old?? You ain't calling us old, now, are you???

P.S. - if you want to look up F5Loar's and my videos, check out my Youtube channel 'reillyevan'. Vote on who is older, us or the mandolins!!!

Zigeuner

Oct-07-2008, 7:55pm

From what I understand, the reason that he scratched out his inlay was because they did a refinish.

I had heard that also. I'm not sure what the actual reason was but he must have been angry with the Gibson Company at some point when he removed the Gobson logo. IIRC, I was fortunate enough to see Mr. Monroe playing that very Mandolin at the Ash Grove in Los Angeles one night in the 1960's but I can't remember exactly when. Wow, what a player!

I never got to meet Mr. Derrington but I've heard about him through the years and from what I've seen of his restoraton work on those mandolins, he was in a class by himself. I sure wish he was still with us.

Thanks for these threads. I truly enjoy them. :)

evanreilly

Oct-10-2008, 1:56pm

That was in 1963. There are live recordings from that West Coast tour of Monroe and the BGB as well as Monroe and Doc Watson available on the Smithsonian CDs put together by Ralph Rinzler

Zigeuner

Oct-11-2008, 10:11pm

That was in 1963. There are live recordings from that West Coast tour of Monroe and the BGB as well as Monroe and Doc Watson available on the Smithsonian CDs put together by Ralph Rinzler

I would say that you are correct on the 1963 date. I was in my second year at UCLA at the time and so that would have been the year. I do recall that Bill Monroe's guitar player broke a string during one performance. This brought a sharp look from the master but they kept on playing. LOL.

The Ash Grove always had the best performers. Besides Bill Monroe and Merle Travis, I saw Doc Watson, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, The Kentucky Colonels with Roland and Clarence White, Lightning Hopkins and the list goes on. Sadly the place burned out at some point. I still have some fond memories, however. I got very interested in the mandolin after seeing Bill Monroe, too and got a Martin A mandolin the following year. :)

Darryl Wolfe

Nov-06-2008, 11:33am

72205 at Mandolin Bros (their photo, thanks)

This is out of the closet - new number

danb

Dec-28-2008, 5:09am

Hot off the presses from Frank over at Gryphon is this barely post-loar F5 #82932 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/82932)

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/82932_front.jpg

danb

Dec-28-2008, 5:09am

Mint

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/82932_back.jpg

markishandsome

Dec-28-2008, 1:27pm

The instrument looks hot of the press itself!

Michael Cameron

Dec-28-2008, 1:35pm

The '25 Fern...OMG !

:disbelief:

Christian

Dec-28-2008, 2:10pm

25 or 26?? With a serial number close to the 83000 and a FON 8231, this might have been built months after Loar left the factory. There are over twenty F5 listed between this one and the last Loar signed, and they didn't built many of these in the months immediatly following his departure. Darryl??

danb

Dec-28-2008, 2:34pm

The last batch of style 5 instruments signed by Loar have a signature date of Dec 31, 1924. It's been more or less the convention to ascribe barely-post-Loar instruments with a 1925 date, though honestly these could have waited around in Kalamazoo for quite a while before they were set up with hardware, put in cases, shipped out to dealers etc. There have been plenty of signs that instruments stuck around the factory for a while past the signature dates, so these are really educated guesses and agreed conventions of what is meant by the dates we assign to them.

Isn't it something though? I think my year-old Wiens f5 has more playing wear!

tree

Dec-28-2008, 5:34pm

That sunburst on the back . . . be still my beating heart.

Glassweb

Dec-28-2008, 5:56pm

I've heard of at least 2 rare, rare birds... those being 1925 Ferns with varnish finishes and otherwise Loar-era appointments. I had a chance to buy one several years ago and balked at the price... stupid me. The Dude called it one of the best F5s he'd ever heard. That Fern shown here is exquisite... for sale or no?

carleshicks

Dec-28-2008, 5:59pm

the color of the early ferns is beautiful the red and amber just stand out nicely. i played a 29 fern but it had the same cremona sunburst as a loar. i wonder why they switched back and forth, and why did they switch immediatly after Loar left Gibson?

Michael Lewis

Dec-29-2008, 3:04am

3 mounting screws per plate. Old string post spacing?

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-29-2008, 10:18am

Beautiful mandolin

danb

Dec-29-2008, 6:43pm

That Fern shown here is exquisite... for sale or no?

Family heirloom that has never been for sale

Glassweb

Dec-29-2008, 8:43pm

ah, i see... unreal condition... Happy New Year Dan & Scott!

woodwizard

Dec-29-2008, 10:28pm

OMG! Almost new looking. Very clean. I give it an "11+" on a 10 scale.

f5loar

Dec-29-2008, 10:36pm

In a post Loar era it would be hard to find a finer example then this one.

Darryl Wolfe

Jan-22-2009, 12:03pm

Here is some interesting information that Dan was able to pull out of the database. Loar signed instruments that have become known of after the Shultzs Loar showed up here.

Just for fun, here are all the ones we found after 76547...

+-------+--------+---------------------+
| model | serial | documented date |
+-------+--------+---------------------+
| F5 | 73994 | 2005-02-04 06:38:12 |
| F5 | 75844 | 2005-04-14 16:13:16 |
| F5 | 73006 | 2005-05-04 11:49:57 |
| F5 | 75554 | 2005-06-26 04:00:17 |
| H5 | 76498 | 2005-07-31 09:42:45 |
| F5 | 72055 | 2005-08-26 03:05:33 |
| F5 | 71629 | 2006-02-06 20:33:13 |
| F5 | 73485 | 2006-03-12 03:59:13 |
| F5 | 73486 | 2006-03-12 16:40:00 |
| L5 | 80264 | 2006-05-09 19:07:26 |
| F5 | 74012 | 2006-10-11 09:24:05 |
| F5 | 73479 | 2006-10-14 13:55:23 |
| L5 | 77401 | 2006-11-28 07:07:53 |
| F5 | 76550 | 2007-05-08 06:27:37 |
| F5 | 75316 | 2007-07-25 10:42:51 |
| F5 | 79756 | 2008-03-28 17:46:24 |
| F5 | 75841 | 2008-05-19 09:52:31 |
| F5 | 73997 | 2008-06-19 08:56:42 |
| F5 | 72205 | 2008-11-06 11:33:39 |
| F5 | 76782 | 2009-01-03 03:25:24|

Darryl Wolfe

Jan-22-2009, 12:05pm

And here is a link to the totals

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/signature_dates.html

danb

Mar-02-2009, 1:22pm

Here's a photo of Lloyd Loar in 1927

danb

Mar-02-2009, 1:25pm

And a little advice from the man himself..

raulb

Mar-03-2009, 12:27pm

Now I guess now we know why I am not a successful musician!

danb

Mar-12-2009, 5:44am

I have a some nice new pictures to share. Here are two photos of F5 75320 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75320)

danb

Mar-12-2009, 5:47am

Here are a few shots in color of F5 # 75691 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75691)

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 10:20am

Check out the lovely binding work on 90446 which was just listed at Elderly

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 10:23am

and..the Waverly tuners that are assembled reverse style, but with non-reverse worms. Hence, these tuners are original, but turn backwards

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 10:28am

It also appears that the peghead holes are drilled in a manner that would not really perfectly fit any known tuners. The holes seem to be too low for Loar style worm under reverse tuners, but at the same time it doesn't appear that worm over later tuners would work right either

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 10:29am

Still, this is a very attractive mandolin at a very respectable price

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:24pm

Ok, here is the first post from the real F5 Journal. These photos are a combination of pages from my record books and from Tom Isenhours (F5LOAR) books. We each maintained an album of 35MM photos. Tom and I got together last weekend and "reconciled" my book with his, his book with mine and the combination against my excel spreadsheet (which is the official F5 Journal) and against Dans listing in the mandolinarchive.com. It will be too difficult to note who took what picture, but essentially somewhere between myself, Tom Isenhour and Joe Previtera (F5Joe) that would be the main credit. Other pictures were mailed to us from owners and my Dad took some at festivals where I did not attend. The quality is not where it should be, but these are scans from entire pages or from individual photos and most every photo is 20+ years old. Most photos are from the late 70's and early 80's.

This is 79641 and I took these photos at Gruhns when it was having some fretwork or similar minor repair performed in maybe 1980. This mandolin is owned by Bill Lawarre and I had the pleasure of "re-meeting" him at Loarfest after not having seen him since 1968

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:32pm

This is L5 76482, a March 31 1924 with Virzi No 10187. Tom took this photo on a visit to the owners house

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:36pm

Here is another photo from the early 70's. George Gruhn owned the instrument at one time 76482

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:38pm

and lastly the matching back shot. This L5 is obviously birch 76482

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:41pm

79719 This picture is from Tom's book. As you can see, it contains the photos that Mandolin Brothers mailed him, along with their card. In this case, I copied Toms pics for my book and in other cases vice versa

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:48pm

79834 Dec 1, 1924, from a printed Mandolin Bros mailer

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:53pm

79834 again. Actual photos from the owner

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 1:56pm

79834 again. This is the last for today, however there are about 100 pictures to come

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 2:05pm

This is a scan from a page in our book. I have a much better photo somewhere, but I have enhanced this to show several things

Offset of the dove tail
truss rod not in the center of the neck
depth and angularity of the pickguard pin holes
fingerboard alignment pin hole, yes check your Loar, the pin hole is there and filled in the same place

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-16-2009, 2:50pm

This thread would be huge if we posted all of this kind of stuff. An old appraisal on 73752. More evidence of how long we have been at this little Loar game

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-19-2009, 2:18pm

Here is another morsel for you 72210

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-19-2009, 2:20pm

71901 prior to a number of repairs

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-19-2009, 2:24pm

73008

HoGo

Mar-20-2009, 2:53pm

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-23-2009, 11:18am

Hey Darryl, the f-holes of 71901 look weird. I guess one more of the early "slim" model of holes. These look quite unbalanced to me. And the scroll is not very typical Loar style. If I had to guess I'd tell it is quite nicely redone F-4. But Gibson did weird things (usually on b@njos) so I'm likely wrong :-).
Can I quote you about the pin for f/b location? I was trying hard and coldn't see a trace on a Loar, even under 12th fret... Couldn't be that the guy who removed the board drilled through 12th fret slot to make sure he'll glue it back in correct position?

Let me double check my MRI's on the pins. Pins show up on tops, backs and fingerboard, but I don't want to fully commit on the all the way thru part. I do know they go all the way thru the peghead overlay

71901 is for sure an original F5, but it is a tad odd looking in places

eightmoremiles

Mar-23-2009, 9:07pm

Darryl
This is very interesting. I have cat scans on three different genuine Loars. All three have a pair of small pins, oriented perpendicular to the fretboard, positioned at the space between the 14th and 15th frets, closer to 15. One pin is in the neck just reaching the under surface of the fretboard. The second pin, slightly longer, is in the exact same plane, but it is in the base of the neck just reaching the inner surface of the overlying wood of the back (heel). They sure look like surveyor's pins, or something of similar use.
Is this what you have seen?

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-24-2009, 8:40am

JeffD

Mar-24-2009, 8:54am

These photos are a combination of pages from my record books and from Tom Isenhours (F5LOAR) books. We each maintained an album of 35MM photos. Tom and I got together last weekend and "reconciled" my book with his, his book with mine and the combination against my excel spreadsheet (which is the official F5 Journal) and against Dans listing in the mandolinarchive.com.

Hey, do you think F5 calendar could be in our future?

Just askin....:whistling:

Darryl Wolfe

Apr-16-2009, 9:35am

Here is 83234, another new one. This one sold quickly behind the scenes

Darryl Wolfe

Apr-16-2009, 9:36am

The back

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-09-2009, 11:26am

It is that time of the year again. Happy Birthday to Lloyd 73992. 86 years old

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 2:13pm

Darryl:

I have you alone to thank for my MAS over the years. One of my best memories is taking pictures of Loars, Ferns, Bones and such at your side. I still have all those photos and negatives. Yikes!

:mandosmiley:

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 2:41pm

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 2:43pm

While I'm at it, here's 'ole Darryl in the early days .... around 1981/1982:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/DGW0001.jpg

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 2:45pm

I had the very distinct pleasure of seeing the Johnson Mtn. Boys' shows at the World's Fair in Knoxville in 1982. David McLaughlin posed for me with his Loar. Later, he and Darryl came over to the house. Very cool for a wannabe like me.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/McLaughlin0001.jpg

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 2:49pm

Here's one of my All-Time Favorite People, Doyle Lawson. We met at the World's Fair in Knoxville in '82 and have stayed in touch a lot since. He influenced me to get Darryl's Paganoni (my first good mando). Here's Doyle in 1984 at the big Lexington Bluegrass Event. He's holding who's mando? (I know the answer, just seeing who's attentive).

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/DoyleLawson0001.jpg

f5loar

Jul-19-2009, 5:08pm

Doyle is playing Pag's July 9th 23. I know who made the bricks in the wall behind the 4 Loars. Hint: He no longer makes bricks. Looks like an April 25, '23, 2 July 9ths, and a Dec. 1 '24 with Virzi to me.

f5joe

Jul-19-2009, 6:50pm

Right on all accounts on those mandos (as best I can remember). Yes, Pag's mando in Doyle's hands.

f5loar

Jul-19-2009, 11:37pm

And you didn't ask nor did you tell but Darryl is playing a well known Knoxville Osborne style picker's Feb.'23 Loar in that photo above. And David McLaughlin is playing his newly acquired near mint May '23 Loar. Note he was going for that early "Big Mon" Loar experience by leaving the pickguard on and putting the string style strap at the top headstock. The hat would be the Flatt&Scruggs summer straw hat influence and the string tie from the Jim&Jesse influence. Not sure about the high water polyester pants.......early Ky. Mountain Boys Doyle Lawson or pre-Scene John Duffy?

Glassweb

Jul-20-2009, 2:38am

God, just look at that photo in post #601 above! People can whatever they want to about Loar F5 mandolins, but when all is said and done... nothing can touch the genuine article.

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 4:59am

Mandoist

Jul-20-2009, 5:30am

McLaughlin's hand is hiding the vintage aluminum saddle he had on that baby.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-20-2009, 10:26am

Darryl:

Name these Loars by number. We'll see how good your memory is. Hint: I took this in Knoxville up above the TVA complex.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/Loars0001.jpg

I remember the photo, but remembering which is which is gone. I am going to guess
75692 Feb 18 24 that I sold
73747 July 9
73992 July 9
79836 Dec 1 24 that I sold

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 1:01pm

I think the first one on the left "may" be f5loar's April mandolin. Otherwise, you're on it. I have slep a lot too since then. :redface:

f5loar

Jul-20-2009, 1:07pm

I discussed this photo of the 4 Loars with Darryl and we both agree F5Joe don't remember as much as he thinks he does in his 25 year old memory bank. The photo was taken at my house (at the time) and 2 of the Loars are mine and 2 Darryl brought by my house. We leaned them against my brick wall(made out of Old English No. 90). Under the Dec. 1 '24 you can see the charcoal ashes from my grill where I would dump them. So my recollection of the 4 are correct. Now if Joe can dig some more in his unorganized photo box he should find a photo taken of 4 more Loars at the TVA Complex.
"I was so much older then, I'm younger then that now"
Bob Dylan '66

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-20-2009, 2:07pm

Yep, Tom and I discussed it. I got three of four but I knew knew something was wrong "with this picture". The similar picture taken by F5Joe at TVA had my 72615 Griffith Loar, and Rybka Feb 24 and others. I assumed this was at the TVA location and could only come up with candidates for the picture which would be mine, another friends and the two I had in possession to sell

f5loar

Jul-20-2009, 3:45pm

Just goes to show you the old saying "seen one Loar, seen them all" holds true. After looking at them for over 45 years they all look the same.

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 9:04pm

....... uh, I forgot. What is it you want?

Seriously, I never bought a Loar because they ALL look alike. Really, I think.

Someone help me, please! :)) ~o)

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 9:26pm

McLaughlin's hand is hiding the vintage aluminum saddle he had on that baby.

No Aluminum saddle on this day:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/McLaughlinMando0001.jpg

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 9:30pm

I had the pleasure of witnessing a very cool jam at the Knoxville area Red Gate Festival one year. I purposely took this shot of Darryl Wolfe a bit out of focus (on left) with some guy named Skaggs on the right.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/DarrylandRicky0001.jpg

Chris Biorkman

Jul-20-2009, 9:32pm

Look how skinny he is!

f5joe

Jul-20-2009, 9:47pm

Big Mon always had a body guard close by. :grin:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z56/f5joe/Mando%20Stuff/BigMon0001.jpg

f5loar

Jul-20-2009, 11:07pm

That's a really clear cool photo of Ricky's first Loar, his March 31, 1924 number 76778. I heard he recently got it back. If you listen to him playing it on the Country Gentlemen Anniversery CD with the New South Reunion you can tell how well it really cuts through Rice's guitar and Crowe's banjo.

Jim Hilburn

Jul-21-2009, 9:15am

Isn't there a story of Ricky trying to thin the neck and cutting through to the truss rod? Or did I dream that?

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-21-2009, 9:38am

Isn't there a story of Ricky trying to thin the neck and cutting through to the truss rod? Or did I dream that?

That may be true, however I believe it was that way when he got it

Jim Hilburn

Jul-21-2009, 9:58am

I wonder why anyone would have thought a Loar neck was just too big!

danb

Jul-26-2009, 6:23am

OK, first new one to report in a while is this July 9 1923 from Elderly Instruments (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-5368.htm). looks like a beauty!

danb

Jul-26-2009, 6:25am

Here are photos, again from Stan at Elderly Instruments (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-5368.htm). This is Gibson F5 #73984, signed July 9, 1923 by Lloyd Loar (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/73984). Looks like a very nice example, I'm not aware of a sidebound so close to Monroe's coming up for sale recently.

danb

Jul-26-2009, 6:26am

next set..

danb

Jul-26-2009, 6:28am

last set. (more at the elderly link above)

danb

Jul-26-2009, 6:31am

There's not a lot to comment on in terms of differences here. Replaced handle on case, and Stan notes one tuner button replaced!

sgarrity

Jul-26-2009, 8:11am

WOW, what a find!

Mark Seale

Jul-26-2009, 8:29am

tree

Jul-27-2009, 9:10am

Aaaiiieeee!!!

I was in Elderly's late Friday afternoon, but was unaware they had this mandolin. I went in to drool over (not on) the 1927 Fern, and pick it just a bit. For educational purposes, of course (since I will likely never actually own a mandolin of this value).

Dang, I hate it when I miss an opportunity like that. Michigan is a long way from South Carolina.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-27-2009, 11:17am

The pickguard is a tad odd for mid '23. The angle of the top mitre, single layer of tortoise and the binding with white inner line generally did not show up until Feb 24

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-27-2009, 11:27am

Pickguards for 22 and 23 Loars were single layer of 0.070 reinforced with another 0.070 layer indented in. Loars were the first Gibson instruments with bound pickguards and the sanding and polishing rendered them too thin for single layer guards. The first one 70281 is single layer 0.070 none of the others are. Gibson apparently ordered 0.100 plastic to correct this and all Loars February 18, 1924 and later have the single layer guard. Here is a proper 1923 guard with the shrink lines from the layer underneath and the "flat" tip that '23 generally have. The double layer guards are very dark

Glassweb

Jul-27-2009, 12:04pm

amazing side maple on some of those July 9th mandos... like yours D!

Bill Halsey

Jul-27-2009, 11:46pm

Good spot, Darryl. This fingerrest is single thickness, 0.095" avg. The b/w offsets are 0.020" each. Here are a few detail pix:

44611

44612

44613

f5loar

Jul-28-2009, 10:09am

For what it's worth , Monroe's July 9 Loar had the exact same pickguard as this recent find. So it can't be too odd to find one with this style guard.

Darryl Wolfe

Jul-28-2009, 10:16am

For what it's worth , Monroe's July 9 Loar had the exact same pickguard as this recent find. So it can't be too odd to find one with this style guard.

Not fully correct. Monroes had a white celluloid bound guard of the type that came even later in 1925 (along with 1925 era lacquer overspray and gold parts) The guard part is fact, the gold parts are my opinion based on the tailpiece bottom being gold plated

Darryl Wolfe

Sep-29-2009, 1:35pm

I encourage all Loar and Gibson affecionatos to fully read this book by Walter Carter. I have owned the book since it came out in the early 90's, however there were numerous chapters that I had only sped read or "I'm just looking at the pictures Mom"

Of particular interest are the numerous tales of "Board Room Wars" along with excerpts from minutes of meetings and such. We on this thread have discussed many things about Gibson and the Loar era, but, we have not fully explored the meaning of some of the facts presented in this book.

I will expand on this later as I assimilate my thoughts but here are a few pointers that come to mind:

Board meetings appear to be held on Monday about once a month or there abouts - they seem to coincide with many of the dates Loars were signed on.

L. A. Williams, a Loar associate left Gibson in a furor at the end of '23. Others left before the end of '24, with Loar essentially being the last of the old regime. Loar was more involved with the company than thought, he signed paycheck and did a number of things that imply board member/stockholder

Harry Ferry entered the equation in later '23 and turned the company around to make a profit in '24

Some of his goals were to a) cut the number of models and to B) change from teacher/agent agreements to Music store/dealership agreements.

The cut in production experienced in 1925 was so great that it could not have been from a shift in interest from mandolins to guitars and banjos and the economy simply was not that up and down. Production dipped 60-70%, immediately meaning that they overbuilt and spent the next several years selling 1924 era new instruments. They were building 4-5000 instuments a year and then built about 1200-1400 for the new 3-4 years. Impossible. This is why 1925 instruments may not even be 1925's at this juncture. We note how so many things changed immediately, but this may not now be true. I believe they spent several years finishing instrument started in 1923 and early 24 on an as needed as sold basis (which was one of Harry Ferry's initiatives also)

Some of this seems to explain how Eugene Claycomb special ordered a "red" F5 in mid 1926 and received a red '24 Fern Loar.

More to come

danb

Sep-30-2009, 2:22pm

I see where you are heading with this Darryl- quite fascinating. It looks like most of the early loars were promotional ones sent to leading players, and now many of the later ones were likely hold-overs. The evidence from the snakeheads such as your A4 seem to point this way too!

Shifting gears a bit, here's 75319 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?175) from skinner, coming up soon for auction. Astoundingly it's a Gilchrist refinish. Looking at just how right he got that, all I can say is "job well done Steve". That's simply astoundingly good finish work

Glassweb

Sep-30-2009, 2:47pm

very interesting stuff guys... great work! perhaps this explains why my Dec. 1 #79719 has the atypical tuners... "business as unusual" at Gibson...
regarding Steve's refinish on the Loar... well, what can you say... all the best will tell you he is the best - sho' nuff'!

hey, i just looked this one up on The Archive and it says "block inlays, refinished in the 1950's and then again by Gil"... please help, i'm confused! by the way... a GREAT looking L&H mandola at this same auction...

Ken Waltham

Sep-30-2009, 6:13pm

75319 was my F5. I bought it after I had bought the sidebound July 9 from mando Bros. It was a block inlay 1950's fingerboard and 50's refinish at the time. All parts and case were original, so, having sent the July 9 to Oz for Steve to work on, I decided to send this one as well. At the time, Steve had two original Feb 18's there, so, he had a good colour match to work from.
It is easily the best Gilchrist refinish on a Loar that I have seen to date.
The day it arrived, he called me, and said there was a koala bear sitting on the box, on his front porch.
:)
Ken

Glassweb

Sep-30-2009, 6:54pm

great story Ken! "Loar mandolin blessed by Koala Bear berry, berry good!"

seems like a good opportunity for someone to pick up a nice Loar at a bargain basement price... so to speak...

Keith Erickson

Sep-30-2009, 9:04pm

I'm just amazed to see how well this looks after 86 years.

It's a great find and a great story to boot.

Thank you for sharing Dan :cool:

Cheers ~o)

f5loar

Sep-30-2009, 10:58pm

Another "up to date" repair at Gibson with a Loar getting a 50's block fingerboard and 50's style refinish. It's like the owners of these Loars had no control over Gibson refinishing or replacing unneccesary parts. There have been several Loars found with these type repairs usually in the 40's and 50's. The mystery is how did Monroe's Loar escape the same 50's repair treatment? Or did it? :whistling:

Darryl Wolfe

Oct-01-2009, 7:32am

Glassweb, yes, I thought about your tuners as I made that post. Much of this fits

BradKlein

Oct-01-2009, 7:48am

Shifting gears a bit, here's 75319 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?175) from skinner, coming up soon for auction. Astoundingly it's a Gilchrist refinish.

Spring of '07, I had a chance to play a Gilchrist refinished Loar at Larry Wexer's. Signed 13 June 1923.

Larry had two Loars at the time, and both sounded very fine, but quite different. His 31 March '24 had original finish and a Virzi.

Overall, I thought that the '23 was an instrument that would make most players very happy, and at well under $100K, I suppose that it might be considered 'a good deal'.

CharlieKnuth

Oct-01-2009, 10:46am

Darryl Wolfe

Oct-01-2009, 11:29am

I have played the Loar that is up for auction at Skinner's. Wonderful instrument. I am very, very surprised that the estimate worth on this is $70,000 - $90,000. If that is all, I could mortgage my house and then resell the Loar for a huge profit.

Believe it or not, things have changed enough that the Skinner estimate is actually high. I have a refinished Loar that I would love to see leave for $70K and there are no added commissions.

BradKlein

Oct-02-2009, 4:25pm

Those of us who don't own, or buy and sell very high end instruments sometimes get the idea that most Loars are pristine instruments commanding $200K.

I've played a re-topped Loar as well as the refinished '23 I mentioned above and a refinished Fern. Wonderful instruments. In some ways they occupy an uncomfortable middle ground. Very valuable, but not 'investment' quality. However with a good match between player and instrument I can imagine any of those three being plenty of mandolin for a lifetime of picking.

f5loar

Oct-02-2009, 5:20pm

The problem with those type of "not all original" Loars is the investors that can afford them don't want them and the pickers that want them can't afford them. There are many Loars in original condition but in only poor condition with lots of finish lost and maybe some repaired cracks but still solid in all respects and usually great pickers.
Those that come to mind are Mike Marshalls and Butch Waller.

Glassweb

Oct-02-2009, 8:38pm

[QUOTE=f5loar] The problem with those type of "not all original" Loars is the investors that can afford them don't want them and the pickers that want them can't afford them.

Well put Tom... that's it exactly. I think from now on the only super high-price Loars will be the all-original ones that are in excellent-plus to mint condition. There are VERY few of them that are still in that category.

Travis Finch

Oct-11-2009, 11:32am

Hey everybody, was just following the auction (online...I'm over in London). For the record, the Loar went for around $62,500-65,000..can't remember which.

I was primarily interested in the Lyon and Healy mandola, went for $6,000 btw.

buckles

Oct-11-2009, 1:06pm

Did that Loar actually sell? It was lot #30 and lot#30 is not mentioned in the results of the auction. Maybe it didn't meet the reserve?

Travis Finch

Oct-11-2009, 1:20pm

Could well be, that figure was the final bid. Who knows? Maybe the reserve wasn't met.

ETA: Just checked the website. Looks like the Loar went unsold.

(Also, for those interested-the mandola actually went for $7,110 not sure if that's including commisions, etc.)

Ken Waltham

Oct-11-2009, 1:30pm

No, the Loar sold.
62500.00 plus 18.5% buyer's premium, plus, for this guy, a 6.25% MA state tax. He was on the floor.

f5loar

Oct-11-2009, 11:02pm

So that's about 79K for a refinished Loar. Not bad in today's crippled US economy. You can still buy a house for that amount.

Glassweb

Oct-11-2009, 11:24pm

i had a feeling that L&H mandola would bring a decent amount... it sure looked nice. and if the Loar was bought for almost $80K i'd say that's a pretty healthy price, all things done to this instrument considered... Lloyd Lives!

Darryl Wolfe

Oct-12-2009, 8:10am

I agree, this is good. I really did not expect it to bring nearly this much, but only from an economy perspective (not what I think it is worth perspective)

Ken Waltham

Oct-12-2009, 6:06pm

The one thing I will say for that mandolin, besides it did really sound and play good.. is that all the "restoration" work is already done. And, it has aged for 10 years. And, I sent it to Oz to the greatest there is, so, that risk is already taken care of.
It has the "right" fininsh, by the world's greatest luthier, it has all the right hardware, case and peghead overlay. The only thing, and it's small, is that the pickguard binding piece, that is against the fretboard, is 1950's. It is more white in colour than the rest of the p/g's original binding.
Pretty small complaint. We did not change that in the restoration process.
It had beautiful wood, and sounded great. The non Virzi Feb 18's are wonderful mandolins, and, if you did not own one, and really wanted a Loar, but not for 200K, that was THE ONE, as far as I'm concerned.
Having said that, you are now 79K into a non original F5, and that's a real gamble.
It's a call that could go either way, I guess.

Darryl Wolfe

Oct-13-2009, 8:15am

Ken, is the overlay original to the instrument

Ken Waltham

Oct-13-2009, 6:45pm

Yes, the overlay is original. As I recall, it was quite colourful as well, certainly more than most. Pink and green.
The only non original part is the replaced fingerboard. And, I really don't think anyone could ever tell.
I have lots of photos of it in it's "orignal" state, as I bought it.
A really pretty slab cut back, and nice rims. Forest green coloured case interior.
Ken

Glassweb

Oct-13-2009, 7:18pm

so... for less than the cost a mint, Master Model Fern, someone picked up a Gilchrist refinished Feb. 18th Loar. not bad sez I. you know, as time goes on even the cleanest existing Loars will be degrading in one way or the other. it may be a scratch, or a crack on the top... perhaps a seam separation on the back or the tuners will just wear out. at this point all you can do (if you want a Loar) is try and find (or wait for) the best Loar you can find within your price range. you got $225,000 to spend? great, the world of Lloyd will be your oyster. got about $150,000? go a for a VG+ example that sounds great. your accountant tells you $70K is your limit? fine... you just bought a Gilchrist refinished Loar with original hardware and case for less than half of what an original finish example would go for. don't give a damn about a Loar F5 but still want a top pro-quality mandolin? choices? are you kidding? how about a Gil, Dude, Kimble, Brentrup, Ellis, Wood, Monteleone, Mowry, Weins, Hamlett, Haisley, Hester, Heiden, Daley, Gibson DMM, Collings, Brock, Poe, Clarke etc... etc... frankly, if you can't find a GREAT mandolin for under $5K you ain't lookin' in the right places...

Ken Waltham

Oct-13-2009, 9:01pm

Yes, I think if that's your price range, it was a fantastic F5, signed by Loar himself. It doesn't get much better.
If I didn't have one, I'd have bought it.

Kent Martin

Nov-18-2009, 10:16pm

I read the 2 Loar Picture of the Day threads end to end over the last 5 days -- fascinating, quite a resource. I'll know what I'm looking at the next time one comes in the door.

OK, the first time one comes in the door.

It's also good inspiration for #2 which I hope to start building soon.

Thanks, all.

Darryl Wolfe

Dec-07-2009, 2:32pm

Does anyone know where the Pee Wee Lambert mandolin is now. The owner came by my house years ago, but I have forgotten his name. That would be 71628 a '22 model that Gilchrist redid

danb

Dec-08-2009, 8:53am

We sorted this one out, the owner wishes to stay anonymous

Richard Morrison

Dec-12-2009, 10:46pm

Family heirloom that has never been for sale

...and from the look of the neck finish, never been played.

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-16-2010, 1:17pm

Ms. Hester's A5 and Lloyd make a nice pair

grassrootphilosopher

Feb-17-2010, 4:56am

Ms. Hester's A5 and Lloyd make a nice pair

Since they do indeed make a nice pair how about posting a soundclip of both.

Skip Kelley

Feb-17-2010, 12:04pm

Darryl, That is one sweet looking couple!!!

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-18-2010, 10:15am

I guess it only fitting that we mark the 86th anniversary of the Loar signed February 18, 1924 instruments. There were more than 60 instruments signed on this day, by far the largest batch of Loar signed instruments. These would include Mike Marshall, JR's, Gene Johnsons and the Rybka/Williamson mando to name only a few.

f5loar

Feb-20-2010, 5:16pm

I got to pick quite a bit on the above Hester A5 yesterday and today and it sounds and plays as good as it looks. This is what independant builders are all about. When you see this fine of a quality luthier work that turns out a superb sounding, easy playing near flawless mandolin such as this one you know it can't get any better. The neck was fast and smooth. The wood excellent quality. The fit and finish very 20's Gibson like.
The notes clean and true sounding. The sound very punchy with clarity and power to spare. I'm usually not very impressed with these copies of the original Loar A5 since I've been able to pick on the holy grail A5 all others seem pail in comparsion. It seems most copies are just near copies and fail to really capture what that one off Loar accomplished way back in 1923.
This one got it right. While I have never played any other mandolins by Ms. Hester I can say she understands what it's all about and for certain nailed it dead center on this one example I played. I felt the same as I did when I first played Dudenbostel NO. 1 and NO. 2 F5 models. I knew better things were coming down the road and they sure have as Lynn continues to put out quality workmanship and great sounding mandolins. I understand this one was several years old and she has done some improvments to current ones being made. If that is true then this is one mandolin luthier you need to keep an eye on. Very, very nice. I understand this particular one is for sale. If you are in the market for a used A5 for a great price by one of the up and coming top of line luthiers than look no further. In the words of the late Michael Jackson :grin:
"THIS IS IT".

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-22-2010, 1:56pm

Just in case anybody forgot how fine 84252 is, here are some new photos

Gail Hester

Feb-22-2010, 3:35pm

That Fern is absolutely jaw-dropping gorgeous.

Darryl, thank you for posting the wonderful pictures of the A5 and Lloyd. Lloyd is amazing.

f5Loar, thank you for your incredible review of the A5. I’m speechless and that’s never happened before.:)

carleshicks

Feb-22-2010, 4:06pm

Just in case anybody forgot how fine 84252 is, here are some new photos

WOW!!! That is amazing, my 2002 Master Model looks older.

danb

Feb-22-2010, 6:01pm

Just in case anybody forgot how fine 84252 is, here are some new photos

Seems to me I recognize the man reflected in the pickguard :grin:

Jim Hilburn

Feb-22-2010, 7:36pm

Does that mandolin have that much of a reddish tint in person?

f5loar

Feb-22-2010, 8:58pm

Dan, I'm pretty sure the reflection of the man in that pickguard is that of the ghost of Lloyd A. Loar standing over that Fern and thinking "darn I should have signed that one before I left the building".
At least that is who it looks like to me ! :grin:
It does look like a newer F5L Fern varnish model.

Glassweb

Feb-22-2010, 9:13pm

Hi Gail... Steve Brown here... I FINALLY got to play one of your mandolins... the A5 that was at Darryl's this past weekend. What can I say... except that your A5 was AMAZING! Sure the Loars were there and so was my (ex) Fern 84252. But what really got our blood boiling was your A5. All we could do was just shake our heads in wonder... how does a person build a mandolin this good with less than 5 years experience? In fact forget the experience... how does anyone build an A5 so faithfully accurate and amazing... no matter what their experience?! Geoff Clarkson once told me "Gail Hester builds NOS (new old stock) mandolins. How right he is! And if this is a mandolin from a few years back I can't even begin to imagine how good your latest creations are. As far as I'm concerned Hester mandolins are for real, happenin' and just a joy to play. Anyone who wants even more effusive praise can PM me and I'll keep going! I hope you keep doin' what you do BEST Gail... keep up the GREAT work! :mandosmiley:

evanreilly

Feb-23-2010, 8:39am

Re: Gail and 'NOS'....
She told me a while back she was collecting some really vintage woods to someday make a really vintage NOS mean mandolin machine. I made a minor contribution to her vintage wood collection (hint: it had minuscule adhering molecular DNA of the most desirable kind), and I expect the result to be a primo instrument.

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-23-2010, 9:18am

Jim,

The color is pretty accurate. Here it is next to a fern Loar that has the darker tone to it

f5loar

Feb-23-2010, 1:49pm

That double your fun photo shows Gibson still had their act together after Loar left the building. I tried to find scratchs or flaws in that photo and found none. It's as if time stood still for 85 years. That Loar Fern still has specks of silver on top of the tuner posts. Something I've only seen on a very few Loars. The gold tuners on the Fern look like they were made yesterday.
And check out that Clemson orange vintage Mark Leaf double F case. Go Tigers :))

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 12:49pm

I'll pick up here where I left off almost a year ago. I now have about 5000 new pictures of Loars. I still have a bunch of loose photos to scan yet

73008 Andy Owens

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 12:56pm

H5 #72683 Obviously the first H5 since it pre-dates all others by almost a year. April 2, 1923. The only Loar signed instrument that day

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 1:00pm

72203 February 26, 1923 with her birthday being tomorrow

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 1:04pm

72209

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 1:09pm

72204 February 26, 1923 James Smith. Owned since 1968. I believe he paid a record price of $1000

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 1:12pm

72213 It had a noted shipping date of 12/27/23 Signature date Feb 26, 1923

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 1:15pm

72210. I posted this about a year ago, but since we are on these birthday girls, she needs to be here

Scotti Adams

Feb-25-2010, 1:33pm

#'s 72204 & 72210 both ..at least to my eye have that different color binding going on. Why was that?

Glassweb

Feb-25-2010, 1:35pm

Thanks D... excellent posts... love the back on that 72209... crazy!

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 2:02pm

Here is another of 72209. Yes, very odd piece of wood in the back of her. It is a bit darker than most Feb 23's also

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 2:15pm

73729

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 2:22pm

85365 Extremely light colored, has two Master Model labels

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-25-2010, 2:33pm

73005 April 25, 1923 (being played by BM of course)

Richard Morrison

Feb-25-2010, 5:26pm

The back on 72203 is stunning. Happy birthday little buddy!

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-26-2010, 9:02am

#'s 72204 & 72210 both ..at least to my eye have that different color binding going on. Why was that?

Yes, some of the early '23's have a greyish/green hued transluscent looking binding. Actually, the later 22 and 23 white topped A-3's all had that binding and serve as the best example of it

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-26-2010, 9:09am

Like this

Darryl Wolfe

Feb-26-2010, 9:12am

and this

Scotti Adams

Feb-26-2010, 10:12am

Thanks Darryl

danb

Mar-08-2010, 5:39pm

It's always a pleasure to add another Loar to the archive, here's one currently in stock at Lawrence Wexer Ltd, Fine Fretted Instruments (http://www.gbase.com/powered/gearlist.aspx?dealer=8144f611-4c01-4305-8e70-97e811d47f38&gs=y&pageindex=1&pagesize=25&sf0=7&sd0=0&dealerid=8144f611-4c01-4305-8e70-97e811d47f38&tf=1&ti0=22&grp=7&searchbar=False)

This is F5 # 73680 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?3941), signed and dated by Lloyd Loar on June 13, 1923.

Gold hardware, quartersawn back, white bound pg.. very nice condition and easy on the eyes! Thanks again to L. Wexer for sharing photos and information with the archive. He's also got a fantastic looking A2z at the site at time of posting

Gail Hester

Mar-08-2010, 7:01pm

Great pictures Dan, thank you for posting.

For my education and curiosity, how was it determined that the back was quarter sawn? I don't see the normal evidence grain of the back having been quarter or rift sawn, I would have guessed it was flat sawn?

danb

Mar-09-2010, 5:56am

To me the bass side (right hand) of the back looks quartered, the left less so.. but Larry has it in hand, so I went with his description

bootinz

Mar-10-2010, 2:36pm

It seems cheap compared to others. I wonder why?

sgarrity

Mar-10-2010, 7:46pm

Maybe it more adequately reflects the current market??

f5loar

Mar-11-2010, 1:54am

It's a buyers market for sure but remember these Loars that come from original owners don't have to ask for current market values.
Maybe they would be more interested in a quick sale then a high sell. These dealers that work on consignments could care less how low the owners go so long as they get there XX% for selling it. Elderly still has that July 9 '23 Loar at $250K on conignment. There are more Loars/Ferns for sale now then I've ever seen in the past 30 years but there are still quite a few changing hands privately. Even at $165K that is still the price of a house. Not many can afford a house that price these days.

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-11-2010, 10:59am

F5LOAR is pretty much on the mark. The "price for a Loar" for 2010 has yet to be determined. 2009 only had "asking prices" with 8 or so available at any time. This will most assuredly be the first time prices have backed up (unless none sell for 5-6 years and we return to the $200K mark)

Spruce

Mar-11-2010, 11:52am

To me the bass side (right hand) of the back looks quartered, the left less so.. but Larry has it in hand, so I went with his description

Well, I think I'm seeing medularies in the upper treble bout, and straight grain in the bass side....
So-ooo, I guess "quartered" would be an appropriate description...

But it is a slip-match (or mismatch), as are a bunch of those instruments...

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-11-2010, 11:58am

From the for what it's worth department, the June 13th batch and a small handful of early serialed July 9's marked the change from quartered wood with straight flame to more slab knarley looking grain. This change could have been intentional or maybe just a function of their supply. But and any rate, prior to this point there is rarely a slab cut mandolin and afterwards it is extremely rare to see any straight flame

Links

Mar-12-2010, 5:48pm

That's a beautiful mandolin and I agree that the price much more reflects the current market. Even at that price they probably aren't flying out the door, as that's still a lot of money. I suspect that the shops owning or having consigned Loars in the 250k range are just dreaming right now.

Bill Halsey

Mar-12-2010, 11:27pm

From the photos, it looks to me like this one has reversed 18th & 19th fret spaces.

Mike Black

Mar-16-2010, 10:36pm

There hasn't been a Loar of the day in a few days, so I'd just like to share my two favorites.

The first is the 7/9/1923 #74000 and then my all time favorite the 2/26/1923 #72211.

You can't get any better wood or color than #72211 in my opinion.

56407 :grin: 56406 :disbelief:

Andrew B. Carlson

Mar-17-2010, 12:57am

Glassweb

Mar-17-2010, 2:07am

I've seen 'em both, played 'em both and love the both of them... that's what Loars are all about...

Darryl Wolfe

Mar-17-2010, 7:59am

Me too (since that's my kitchen in the background)

danb

Mar-17-2010, 8:23am

You can't get any better wood or color than #72211 in my opinion.

It's a time capsule for sure. The original owner perished in an automobile accident before the 20's were out, and it sat waiting..

danb

Mar-17-2010, 8:28am

From the photos, it looks to me like this one has reversed 18th & 19th fret spaces.

Good spot Bill! I see that too now. Time to look through my photos to see if I have any other examples. How could *that* have happened I wonder?

f5loar

Mar-17-2010, 7:21pm

Well, I lean towards the 74000 as the most perfect example of what a July 9th Loar is suppose to represent in color, overall looks, playability and sound. But then what would I know about 74000 !

Bill Halsey

Mar-18-2010, 1:23am

Agree re 74000, Tom. Just an incredibly elegant mandolin. Very light & responsive, none better. Wish I'd have pulled that trigger back in '96, but then...

Bill Halsey

Mar-18-2010, 1:34am

Good spot Bill! I see that too now. Time to look through my photos to see if I have any other examples. How could *that* have happened I wonder?

Dan, those fretboards were slotted with a gang saw -- 29 slotting saws and 28 spacers on a common arbor. Those saws must have been changed out & sharpened rather often, and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine getting a couple (if not more) of those spacers mixed up. I think you'll find more Loar period fretboards with similar glitches.

danb

Mar-19-2010, 6:43am

Dan, those fretboards were slotted with a gang saw -- 29 slotting saws and 28 spacers on a common arbor. Those saws must have been changed out & sharpened rather often, and it's not too much of a stretch to imagine getting a couple (if not more) of those spacers mixed up. I think you'll find more Loar period fretboards with similar glitches.

There was at least one batch of snakeheads that messed up spacing on the fretboards and simply wouldn't intonate correctly. I had an Ajr with that issue myself!

danb

Mar-19-2010, 6:46am

Here are some new photos of "Crusher" aka Loar F5 #71635 (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?14), Dawg's famous weapon of mass destruction

Scotti Adams

Mar-19-2010, 7:53am

Dawg sure is hard on them scrolls..this is starting to look like his old Fern. Has anybody got some good pics of it?

AlanN

Mar-19-2010, 8:04am

Let's see:

Tone Guard
Pick Guard
Arm Guard

next up....

Scroll Guard!

Scotti Adams

Mar-19-2010, 8:39am

A tube sock would probably work:grin:

mandopete

Mar-19-2010, 9:25am

Hey, if it's Dawg's mandolin perhaps it really needs a muzzel!

;)

danb

Mar-19-2010, 9:36am

One more of the truss rod cover, very cool :)
56497

Don Grieser

Mar-19-2010, 10:06am

Much classier than a piece of tape over The Gibson. Nice. Were any pocket knives involved? :)

I don't know how you get wear on those parts of the scroll. Maybe the saxophone strap he uses lets the mandolin move more than a regular strap.

Scott Tichenor

Apr-13-2010, 2:37pm

Here's an update on #76782 Loar that was the subject of an article we ran last year (http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_001016.shtml). It was strung up earlier today and I got a call to come over to Mass Street Music and play it and did so with a guitar playing friend for an hour and a half. Reminded me a lot of the Schultz Loar (#76547 if memory serves me, owned by one of our forum members now) -- virzi, Fern. Remarkably loud chop, crystal clear ping on the E string all the way up the neck, very Monroe-like in sound. Great balance, depth of sound. Can't say I'm surprised after the Schultz experience which was the first time that instrument had been played in over 50 years. This one had a similar time unplayed in the case except the boys in the shop got to it before I did this time around.

While there, Jim Baggett called one of the owners and let them hear it played for a piece or two. Tomorrow it's on its way to the Dallas Guitar Show. A fun experience all the way around and a reminder of what remarkable instruments these are. I should add, the workmanship on this one is pretty spectacular compared to some Loars I've seen. A note about the instrument. It has not been repaired. There is still a separation in the back but not enough to endanger the instrument at tension. It's also still carrying plenty of the grime and white paint it accumulated when used by the owners as a wall hanging. The idea is that the next owner will likely choose someone to do what appears to be some reasonably minor work to get it ready for its next life, and I can assure that in the sound department, it's quite ready.

Picture taken of it last year below.

57316

mcgroup53

Apr-13-2010, 3:00pm

So why didn't you add it to the stable, Scott? <g>

Mike Black

Apr-13-2010, 4:20pm

I got there just in time. I also got to play that mandolin today. Great sound, I would ditto everything Scott said. I'm sure it can only get better after it's fixed up. I wanted to hand them a check and go home with it. It the best experience I've had with a Virzi Loar.

Gail Hester

Apr-13-2010, 7:17pm

virzi, Fern. Remarkably loud chop, crystal clear ping on the E string all the way up the neck, very Monroe-like in sound. Great balance, depth of sound.

So that settles it, no more arguments, from the boss, Virzis are the way to go.:))

evanreilly

Apr-13-2010, 9:59pm

Virzi, Schmerzi!!!!

Mando Smash

Apr-13-2010, 11:01pm

WOW!:disbelief:

8strings

Apr-13-2010, 11:10pm

It really beats me how some players seem to be missing the strings of their mandolins by quite a considerable margin and damaging the top (including scroll) of the instrument to the depicted extent. At the same time, I am perplexed that the completely useless fretboard extension on these instruments is not equally affected. Being a 'martial artist', I can draw one possible comparison. I have seen some fellow karate practioners secretely rubbing their (black) belts against trees to produce some considerable, but not entirely honest wear. Go, figure.

:confused:

hank

Apr-13-2010, 11:31pm

The one virzi'd mandolin I have heard was an oval hole and I heard it back to back with my mandolin played at a distance(8' to 12'). The tone was similar to my Gibson Goldrush but it had a vibrato quality that sounded to me very much like the vibrato of the human voice. I never hear anyone else describe it's voice this way. Am I the only one hearing this vibrato quality of the virzi sound? I personally prefer the tone of my mandolin over the vibrato virzi tone with no consideration given to the virzi's effect on the the upper soundboard which some describe as negative. Sorry to take the bait and side track this thread a bit.

Jessbusenitz

Apr-14-2010, 5:29pm

Man I read that story and thought "That thing was only 15 miles from my house. maybe there's hope for finding a Loar around here yet!"

EdHanrahan

Apr-15-2010, 8:58am

... it had a vibrato quality that sounded to me very much like the vibrato of the human voice. I never hear anyone else describe it's voice this way. Am I the only one hearing this vibrato quality of the virzi sound?

Hank, are you sure there was nothing else going on around you?

Came close to a heart attack when my D-35 started doing a "vibrato". Stopped, checked, re-tested... the sound was really there, not just in my head. What the...?? Then realized there was a slow-turning ceiling fan 5 feet above me, periodically reflecting the sound back down. I could breathe again!

hank

Apr-15-2010, 11:58am

That's a good one Ed. :)) Reminds me of when we were kids singing into a fan for it's special effects. :grin:

Hallmark498

Apr-15-2010, 4:33pm

Coy Wylie

Apr-15-2010, 10:13pm

I was the PRS Ricky Skaggs concert tonight to kick off the Dallas Guitar Show. For the most part it was a commercial for PRS but at the end Ricky brought out what I believe to be this same Loar. Afterward I asked him about it and he said he didn't know anything about it other than it was given to him right before the show to play.

Glassweb

Apr-15-2010, 10:22pm

I spoke with my buddy Larry Wexer today who's at the show there and he got to play that Loar F5 earlier today. Said it needed some setup and repair, but he thought the tone was superb. Believe me, if Larry was impressed it must have something special going on... Larry knows his Loars as good as anyone!

Glassweb

Apr-15-2010, 10:24pm

Larry Wexer played that Loar at the show earlier today and told me it sounded superb. He said with some setup and repair it will be an exceptional sounding Loar F5... Larry should know!

danb

May-19-2010, 9:59am

F5 #70279 is now assumed to have existed. Interesting (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?3945)

f5loar

May-19-2010, 10:26am

or to have been destroyed and it's pickguard used on another one.

danb

May-19-2010, 10:34am

or to have been destroyed and it's pickguard used on another one.

Yep, equally possible. At least it's quite interesting to move the serial number goalposts back by 2 notches. It also seems to imply 70280. These Pickguards with mixed serials to their "hosts" on them seems to tie in with Darryl's theory about the early "promotional" batches of these coming back and being redone at the factory, or maybe it's just like the "bag of virzis" theory where the parts were used in random order. Still, it's very interesting!